Luxman L590AXii vs Accuphase E-650 for a Shindo lover

Does Shindo make an integrated?

Get the Luxman, as the Accuphase is not worth 50% more.

@stereo5 Shindo does not make an integrated or SS amplification.

Any particular reason you want SS? A Leben integrated would pair perfectly with your speakers.

+1 For Luxman.

Shindo actually does or at least used to make an integrated it's called the Appetite.

http://inlivingstereo.com/2012/shindo-apetite/

Yes, there is a Shindo Apetite tube integrated.

But I want to move to a SS integrated that is supported by a dealer (Shindo has no dealers here).

@jond I want to try SS, cause I want to keep the amps on all the time, switching on the tubes and waiting for 30 mins until they warm up sound good, I want a break from that.

essrand understood and you are choosing between two excellent SS integrateds I think you could enjoy either one.

I've heard the Luxman 590AX II and the Accuphase E600, though not the E650, and in different set ups.
I'd vote for Accu, as I found it richer and more full-sounding and, in general, I liked it more. Nevertheless, I think Luxman is very very good as well and you won't go wrong either -but none of them will really give you "tube sound".
PS: I have an Accu A/B int'd amp, so I admit I may be biased, but when I took the Accu I coul choose between it and a Luxman, and... guess what. :)

I am running a pair of Devore O/96 with an Accuphase E-600 integrated; I moved to the E-600 after downsizing from a Shindo Giscours/Haut Brion & Cortese combo.

The addition of a C-37 phono brought the E-600 very close to the sound of the Shindo combo. The E-600 has a surprisingly similar rich tonal textures and details as the Shindo. The Shindo adds a bit more realism, detail and 3 dimensionality as compared to the Accuphase, but then you would expect that from much more expensive separates.

I have heard the Luxman on a few occasions and I certainly liked what I heard. However, I did not quite hear the same tonality, detail and richness as I heard with the Accuphase.

Given that you have the O/96 I would certainly suggest the new E-650. The DAC and phono boards are quite good too for a much more simple approach.

@restock 
Thanks for your input. Very interested that as a Shindo and O/96 user, you like Accuphase. Just the person I wanted feedback from.

Just another question, how is the lower freq (bass) performance of Accuphase, does it beat your prev Shindo combo because it's an SS integrated?

And do you ever miss the Shindo tubes?

The Shindo Giscours and Haut Brion were a very impressive match to the O/96 - for a tube combo the bass was extremely tight and fast. The Accuphase E-600 matches that performance, maybe even a bit tighter and quicker than the Shindo. 

The Shindo was excellent, but after 15+ years of tubes I actually enjoy the simplicity of a solid state setup - I end up listening much more often as the system is almost always on and ready to listen; in contrast with tubes I would sometimes not turn the system on if I expect to only listen for an hour or less.

So I really have not missed the Shindo at all. Getting the C-37 phono helped and brought the system to a level of richness and texture that is close to the Giscours, but offers more flexibility for matching different cartridges.

Feel free to drop me an email or pm - always happy to connect up.

Rene

 

The Accuphase is marginally better.   I have owned the Luxman L-590 AX and the Accuphase E-600.   

I have heard the new Luxman L-590AX II and it does sound better than its predecessor.

The bottom line is the Accuphase will cost you twice as much (once you add the AD-50 phono card).   It may give you a 5% to 10% improvement sonically.   The Luxman is far better value without question. 

Greg - interesting comment on Luxman 590 vs Accuphase E600.

I recently heard a Luxman L-509X with a pair of Harbeth 30.2 at the Montreal Show which compared to my own experience with the Accuphase E-600 and Graham LS 5/9s fell quite a bit short of expectation. I did not feel the Luxman/Harbeth combo had either the resolution, tonality, delicacy or dynamics of the Accuphase/Graham combo. I am unsure whether the speakers or amp made the difference though. Several friends commented on the same observation. I also heard the E-470 with Harbeth in the past which left a better impression than the 509/Harbeth combination at the Montreal show.

How does the new 590 compare to the 509?

@restock I have not heard the 509 yet.  From those who have, the consensus is that it’s not better than the 590. I’m with you on the Luxman/Harbeth thing.  I never really cared for it.  Perhaps too much warmth? Almost too polite in terms of presentation. 

I also owed an E-470 prior to the E-600.  I can understand why you think it is a better match for Harbeth.  

I have always wanted to hear the O/96, I have heard nothing but great things about them. 

greginnh, I wish you hadn't even mentioned your thoughts on the 590MkII.  (just kidding, I've been curious about how it compares)
Your old 590 is playing as I type. Love that thing.
L.

@builder3 - glad to know that you still love the 590.   Of all the gear I have owned, it's the piece I regret selling!

Everyone that's heard it has been wowed, too. I came close a couple times to buying the 550, or one of the 50x series A/B Luxman amps. Glad I held out. Even though I know it's out there, I can't really imagine gear that sounds better than this.

I have owned a Luxman before and it’s actually not bad, I bought e470 after that and liked it a lot, after a while I sold it and wanted to try a different amp and came across to MA8000 and not bad but after a month I kind of missing the sound of accuphase so I sold the mc and bought a e370 for 2k and was blown away compare to ma8000 which is triple the power, AFTER A WEEK I SOLD IT FOR 4K Accuphase is a really good investment it’s like a Rolex because you get what you paid for performance wise, I guess people are hating because of the pricing vs the Luxman, I mean Luxman is not bad but in my experience you will NOT get the wow factor and now I just pulled the trigger for the E650 and I can’t wait to get it! peace of advice I know Luxman is a good brand but don’t compare it to accuphase, the mark ups is really high I know but there is a reason why, you guys check LUXMAN 590X comparing it to primaluna HP and look at the results and it’s shocking! HAPPY LISTENING GENTS.

mimar2910 -  Glad to see that you actually made money on the sale of (used) Accuphase gear.  

I AM comparing Luxman to Accuphase since I have owned many pieces (L-590 AX, E-470 and E-600).   Accuphase and Luxman amps sell for about the same price in Japan.   The Luxman L-590AX provides about 98% of the performance (IMO) as an E-600.   The Luxman is half the price.   Last week, I heard the L-590AXII and Luxman has taken that model to the next level AND has lowered the price by $1,000.  So now we have two competitors - When you add the phono card to the E-650 you are at $18,500 retail.  The Luxman is $9,000.  Luxman is simply better value - it's a shame that the US importer has chosen to mark Accuphase up some much.  Many retailers I have spoken to have been interested in the line - they just can't justify the economics.

I hope you enjoy your E-650 for many years.  The minor improvements over the E-600 will hopefully be noticeable.

mimar2910, I'm curious which model Luxman you owned?

mimar2910:
In Japan you can pickup a brand new Accu E-470 or even E-650 for half the price (same as luxman). Just because its expensive here does not mean its that much better than Luxman. just saying

@greginnh actually, according to data, the improvements of e650 over e600 are huge especially in the noise department

@danimaz but it seems Japanese are not very good or interested to sell internationally. why is that, I have no idea. Maybe they are rich already and do not need to expand their business. Why would Japanese not sell E650 for half the (profitable) price to North America, do you know?

Are you sure you want to leave the amp on all the time? In the past I had a Luxman L-550ax. When I left it on for a while without playing music it got warm to the touch, too warm to leave on all the time.

Yeah, probably not a good idea to leave a Class A amp on all the time. Buy a Class A/B amp for that.

question. has luxman any plans to release successor to the 590axii? or have they already?

I am not aware of any immediate plans to upgrade the L-590AX II..  It has only been around for a couple of years. 

You do not want to leave a class A amp on all the time. One its very hot running and leaving it on will shorten its life, but class A amps take very little time to warm up. Also leaving it on is not the best for our environment your burning full power all the time for nothing. 

I just heard the Luxman MQ-300, probably the best amp I have ever heard. 

Isn't comparing the Luxman 590axii to the Accuphase line kind of an apples and oranges comparison. The 590axii is a true class A amp. Isn't the Accuphase line class A/B? Major difference.

IMHO, the Luxman 509x (being class A/B) would be a much more accurate comparison to the Accuphase 600/650 vs the Luxman 590axii. And, as someone has already mentioned, even the newer and older versions of the 590ax sound different from one another...let alone sounding very different from the Accuphase line. It stands to reason, if you prefer class A/B amps you're going to prefer the Accuphase line to the Luxman 590axii.

Accuphase E-600/650 are class A amps.

@essrand, 

Did you buy the Accuphase E-650 yet? I am also considering E-650 to simplify my setup and would like to know your feedback. 

Mmmm...guess I didn't have my facts straight. The 600/650 are class A. Disregard my post.

@lalitk 
No, I am still pondering......
Problem is my speakers are notorious for only liking tubes. But I talked to someone who loved Accuphase with their Devores as much as they did Shindo.
I don't know if I should take the risk again having burnt my fingers once with matching an SS amp with my speakers because it's impossible to find these amps used.

There’s a guy in NY that has a 650 for sale. Not sure what he’s asking but I could get you his email if you’d like

@t_ramey 

Please PM me his contact info. Thank you! 

I sent him a message about this thread. Can’t remember if he’s a member here or not but something should come of it

Thank you again, appreciate your help! 

I would love for myself to be able to get an Accuphase to try one for my setup but since I can’t I’d love to help someone who can. 

I’m with you on the Luxman/Harbeth thing.  I never really cared for it.  Perhaps too much warmth? Almost too polite in terms of presentation.

I bought the Luxman L-590AXII last year and i agree with this. I own the Harbeth SHL5+ and find the Luxman/Harbeth match to be too polite and warm for my taste. I find the Naim to be a better match to the Harbeth.

The Luxman L-590AXII is a wonderful amp. It's currently matched with Marten Duke 2 and the sound quality is excellent. I didn't manage to compare the Accuphase E650 with the Luxman though but based on looks the Luxman is far ahead in my book. I don't quite dig the gold finish of the Accuphase.

“I don’t quite dig the gold finish of the Accuphase.”

Judging the book by its cover...lol!

Thanks to @t_ramey for hooking me up with E-650. It ended my pursuit and opened the gateway to heavenly sound. A perfect match for my Tannoy Canterbury’s and rest of the upstream components.

@lalitk 

Wow, so glad you are still enjoying the E-650! I’m happy it all worked out.

@t_ramey 

I owe you a big one! Whenever you’re in Houston, let me know. 

I bought the Luxman L-590AXII last year and i agree with this. I own the Harbeth SHL5+ and find the Luxman/Harbeth match to be too polite and warm for my taste. I find the Naim to be a better match to the Harbeth.

i would agree with the above

harbeths like an amp to grab them by the you-know-what’s and make them sing

more efficient devores may not want/need this quality in an amp sound their best

as usual, system synergies prevail in a specific application

in general though, if someone is used to a wavac/shindo/air tight/audio note tube sound, moving to top tier solid state amplification will sense something is missing from the beauty of the music

@jjss49 

As you said, “system synergies prevail in a specific application”

I switched from Shindo to Accuphase and fortunately do not miss the Shindo’s delicious house sound :-) 

@lalitk

excellent!  happy listening!

ps - what speakers?

^^^^Tannoy’s Canterbury Gold Reference.

@lalitk 

very cool

i would think the tube bloom would have been even more prominent on high efficiency models like your tannoys, even though the accuphase does have about as bloomy a midrange and midbass as solid state can offer

@jjss49 

That’s the brilliance of Accuphase pure class A, you get to enjoy the tube bloom and virtues of SS without the hassle of NOS tubes procurement and maintenance :-)