Our Responsibility

“I think many of us who post here do not behave like "know it alls" and just have a passion and willingness to share knowledge/experiences with others.”

+1, tuberist. 

I very much enjoy John Darko’s reviews / blogs and his no-nonsense approach. 

Kosst_Amojan:  <<Your post is a text book example of the "leave people alone in their own opinions and never challenge them" thinking>>

Not sure how you inferred this from my post.  I neither said nor think that.  You simply seem much more heavy-handed than I in introducing people to higher-quality audio than they're aware of - thus my "proselytism" comment.

There are primarily two scenarios that might lead me to an introduction.  1:  people visit and see my system, and I make a light-hearted apology for the elaborate equipment, explaining that high quality music playback is a lifelong hobby.  If they respond positively or are inquisitive, then the discussion leads where it may.

2:  At home, or out and about, if someone comments on good sound they're hearing, I will follow up to see what they're thinking and if they're receptive to pursuing it for themselves.

I do not feel any duty to "spread the gospel" by bringing the topic up every time I realize someone just wants to listen to songs and has no interest in more realistic reproduction.

I follow John Darko’s YouTube blog. I find him informative and not the least bit bombastic. The way he described the "know it all audiophile" could really apply to just about any "hobby" I think many of us who post here do not behave like "know it alls" and just have a passion and willingness to share knowledge/experiences with others.

geoffkait-

there's likely plenty of people who have heard nice audio systems, like music and could care less about how it's delivered. I'm sure there are some among us who have actual musician friends who live/breath music,and are content with an awful Soundesign all in one from 1977.

tablejockey
These forums should be about audio stuff, not social impact and the heady things that can go with it. This high end audio nonsense has nothing to do with the love/appreciation of music.

>>>>Huh? Are you sure about that?

This crazy hobby is about not only enjoying our own but also bringing that enjoyment to others in my opinion.

Perfect. Thank You, Birdfan.

I had older friends take me under their wing when I started exploring Mountain Biking and, then as a young adult, Motorcycling.

With their mentorship, their helpful guidance, and their encouragement.... It was a far better, far safer, far more insightful, and much, much more efficient way for me to enter both endeavors/hobbies and grow within them.

These forums should be about audio stuff,  not social impact and the heady things that can go with it. This high end audio nonsense has nothing to do with the love/appreciation  of music. 

The only "responsibility" is to yourself, which is to not allow your wallet to disappear into the wall socket.

If the masses REALLY feel the need to listen to their music in a particular way, a market will always exist.

@bigkidz

+1

I have two boys....both grew up with music, good gear and great sound.  At this point, one has more money invested in guitars and guitar amps than I have in my home system.  The other plays acoustic but not electric.

Both....love music, have much larger music collections than I do, and could care less about gear, sound quality, or devoting time to "just listening".  BUT...they listen to tons of music...while they are doing other things and almost always by ear buds.


Some things in life are "push"....others are "pull".

If audio enthusiast also means music enthusiast...then the hobby is alive and well...but if it actually means gear and sound quality enthusiast...then most young people are not into that (which could change after they themselves retire in 30-40 years)....so getting people of any age interested sooner rather than later will be a "pull" event....in other words, exposing those around you to good sound in a casual (not push) way and if they end up interested...guiding them as to how to get started easily and inexpensively.

To answer the OP’s original question, I do a few things. I work with children and teens professionally and make sure to keep a turntable in my office. Generally I usually have something spinning when they entered the room. Most haven’t ever seen such an archaic contraption and are curios. I open a lot my sessions by having them pick a record and teach them how to use the tt. I use music in my work as often as I can(I’m a trauma therapist) . 

The other her thing I do is ‘audio surprises’. I often have friends who , when they come over enjoy listening to my system. They often have only a Bluetooth speaker at home. When I discover this I quietly put together a simple system for, usually cobbled together from used equipment from my local Hifi store. It’s usually vintage or near vintage gear, but always well matched. I then show up at their house on a weekend day when they have an hour or so and surprise them with a new(used), stereo system and set it up for them. I call it ‘stereo bombing’. I’ve done 8 of these thus far. It’s pretty rewarding.. 

This crazy hobby is about not only enjoying our own but also bringing that enjoyment to others in my opinion. 

Signed,

The Audio Philanthropist (you all should try it... it’s fun)

"Do not try and bend the spoon, that's impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth...there is no spoon. Then you'll see that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself."

As a builder of components my 24 year old son and his friends have heard my system and what it is capable of.  They even play some of their own music on it form time to time.  Being that they are never in one place very often, the idea of having a system to them is not something at this time they are interested in.  Same with my old guitars.  No interest in buying one of those for themselves either.  They don't listen to music to hear the tone of the instrument or separation, etc.  They just sign along to what they like and have the ability to hear music whenever they want and for free. 

I’m getting a bad feeling. 

I wasn't expecting the topic to get existential. : )

Fascinating responses.

@roxy54 I believe the posts were from @geoffkait @douglas_schroeder and @teajay I may be missing one poster. I did not get a chance to read the post further in the thread that is also showing as removed.

Not sure why they were removed, but if poster driven, that’s fine. Otherwise, I’m also curious.

I'd like to see the 4 posts that were removed.

In my opinion, comparing religion and audio is like saying pulling weeds and cooking pancakes are the same. 

Sone things are just too difficult to figure out, regardless of how intelligent we think we are.

In most all cases, there are smarter people than me on both sides of every debate. 

When it’s all said and done, you pays your money and you takes your choice. But everybody pays to play.

kosst_amojan,

I am not sure where you see my support of deceit or misinformation.  I am not a denier in any aspect of my life.  I think I stated disagreement is fine, but sometimes it seems like it is not done in a civil way, and I do believe in civility also.  I certainly don't believe in, or agree with many opinions on this site and agree many so called tweaks are dust and shadows.  However, I have not personally tried many of these things and since hearing is subjective, who am I to say that someone is wrong in their belief of the difference a tweak makes.  I do think all readers need to read most posts with the phrase IMO after each post.  

Debate away, but let civility preside

I see a lot of confusion between people's enjoyment of music and proselytizing the good sound. My assumption is that everyone enjoys
music. Hi-end gear is not required. 

<< That's how I cultivate the next generation. >> @kosst_amojan
Your "cultivation" sounds a lot like proselytism.  Most people react negatively to that kind of attitude, which is understandable.  I suggest some introspection on your motivations.

I kind of thought that paragraph was to tell us to enjoy our music and allow others to also enjoy. Share opinions but respect what they are, opinions and none of us should be insulted because another feels differently. Something that appears to not have been done by the second response. Disagree but don’t hate 

I think this is a fascinating question, and clearly one that triggers passion.  One thing I would add is that quality has a staying power second to none.  The main reason we get to enjoy Shakespeare’s plays is that they are damn good, and generation after generation will discover them anew with passing time.  Time has a way of winnowing out what might be retained and what might fall by the wayside.  They kept getting printed because they had quality, and even though they went through long periods when they weren’t popular, they were rediscovered and bing, some group of artists and artisans puts one on.  It’s like it’s brand new again.  Think of all the stuff, ideas, arts, that have stuck around.  They have ups and downs, but if it has a quality that gets recognized, it’ll have legs.  My point is that quality will always get recognized, and once that’s done, it will be with us for awhile.  
So I don’t fear for the demise of our hobby, the satisfaction and thrill we get when we absolutely love how our system sounds this fine summer evening is us experiencing quality performance of art.  I think that appreciation isn’t going away. It may be that because of the ebbs and flows of the audiophile hobby, the snake oil will be left by the wayside, and quality will be available to whoever comes by to have a look.  It’s a truth about the human experience, we, as a whole, are always interested in quality.  In arts, in politics, in experience, whatever.  Quality never goes away for long.

Dave

teajay, your point is duly noted. Now that you have said your piece, I trust we won't be hearing it again.  :)

Every hobby becomes YOUR hobby because something about it speaks to you in a way that gives you happiness and satisfaction.  The implication here is that if you never had the chance to hear a good system....or you did but someone did it in a way that was condescending, then it may not become YOUR hobby.

Usually, it up to an "industry trade association" to be supporting the manufacturers and stores in promoting that industry.  The closest the audio industry seems to come to is the various major shows around the country.

Darko suggested that "they/we/someone" needs to come up with a great system for less than $500 to help interest young people.  KEF, Audioengine, Klipsch and a few others are doing the best they can to make great sounding products at affordable prices available....but that doesn't answer the fundamental question....how to get people interested in the first place.

As a hobbyist, I think the best we can do is to gently encourage friends, relatives, associates to listen to our systems and if they seem mildly interested...point them in the direction of good sounding budget systems....and if they actually buy one and get the bug...then upgrades down the road will probably happen to them as has happened to most of us.

And....if you live in an area where one of the major audio shows occurs, bring a non audio friend and they might be really surprised by what they hear and decide that they should get their own system...and you can help them with guidance so that can get something that sound reasonably good with the budget they want to start with.

This thread has the potential to grow legs and meander and stumble, wandering far afield of the OP’s intent. Like locomotor ataxia and the involuntary movements of the dead, the barn door is now open for the know-it-alls, alluded to in the link, to exit.

All the best,
Nonoise

kosst_amojan"This hobby has something in common with religion. Denial of reality. Just like religion, this is a dying hobby, and plenty of folks want to deny it along with the reasons it's dying...A BIG problem, and the basis of the most vitriolic exchanges, is the rabid embrace of snake oil by so many in this hobby."

Kosst you are mostly correct hear except I do not think that this hobby is dieing so if that is what you what to claim and assert then some documentation, proof, or data should be presented and you can not simply point to a decline in retail stores as proof because that proves nothing by itself. But the hobby is often similar to religion and you have proved that point here and asserted, argued, and presented you're beliefs with the same fundamentalist passion, conviction, and "vitriol" as any religious practitioner bent on "saving" those who do not embrace their religious "truth" you insult, degrade, and damn those who's beliefs and convictions do not align with your's and you present your closely held and cherished convictions as the only version of the truth and that those who do not accept them in full and who will not bow to your superior wisdom and knowledge suffer from "rabies" which is absurd. Those of us who have some real world life experiences that extend beyond the trailer park have seen this kind of ignorance, intolerance, and self important "superiority" before so good luck with your messianic effort to convert those to your church of "truth". 

I admit, I didn't read the link, however, I feel my posts, taken in the correct context, address your concern. Therefore, IMO, it's on the reader to honestly address their system, with a history of taking their concerns in a honest way. Without one's honesty to themselves, there's no benefit or (true) way forward.