Non-fatiguing speakers in $10K range?

@deep_333 too bad you only have two ears :)

Hi @mikhailark I just got back from T.H.E. Show audio expo in SoCal last weekend. Addressing your specific question I listened to 2-3 speakers that might interest you. The Legacy Aeries was auditioned in the room and for a ribbon tweeter, sounded smoother than I expected; certainly smoother than what I have heard before. Maybe the Signature SE or Focus used is an option for you. They use similar components, and owning a ribbon speaker myself, fatigue or harshness can be an issue. Also the beaming quality. The Aeries had none of that.

Have you heard of Lansche speakers? Their 5.2 was what they were playing through and that’s $60K. But their entry level 3.2 I found used for $12K (new $30K). Same plasma tweeter and OMG what a sweet pleasant sound! Extremely coherent sound as well. One of the few speakers that sounded well balanced. Haven’t absorbed all the tech concerning the plasma tweeter but it sounded so easy to listen to.

I did also enjoy the Fyne 502SP but since the Tannoys didn’t quite do it for you, maybe skip the Fynes? May be worth a listen? Let us know what you do!!

- PS - How much room ya got to the front wall? Those Borrensen X3 would be great but need a lot of room to breathe. The Fynes are bottom ported, so is the Lansche I think so closer to wall placement s/b OK. Legacy sealed so those are good for closer placement, too.

@deep_333.....Like I said, you don't have a clue. You put everything down from every manufacturer and promote 1 Brand and 1 Speaker....There are Many speakers mentioned here by many posters that are just trying to be helpful to the OP........Crapbox , huh......Are you talking about the Bullies....

@kavakat1 you can edit your comment for 30 minutes

That’s Treos not treks. 

Another vandersteen vote. Treks or quatros used. Can’t go wrong  

Another vandersteen vote. Treks or quatros used. Can’t go wrong  

Check out the Tannoy legacy series--the biggest one (Arden) is in the 10k range. There's also the Cheviot, and the smallest one--Eaton.  I have the Eaton and have found it very non-fatiguing but detailed enough and it packs a nice low end punch. Imaging is great too. I moved away from the Kef R3 to the Eaton because I found the R3 fatiguing. 

Someone mentioned the Goldenear Triton Ref speakers. I have a pair of those and a pair of the one.Rs.  For a smaller space the one.Rs are wonderful.  Larger space the Refs are great!

Been on a similar journey and use both Pass Labs separates X250.8/XP22 and also a Luxman 595ase. I’ve finally picked up a speaker I know I’ll have for a very long time. The Legacy Focus SE’s do it all for me! I’ve had them for 2 months and just listen longer to more music and I haven’t once even looked for anything else. 
They fill the room w incredible imaging and just the right amount of sizzzle on the top and rich bass. 
picked them up from Audioclassics in Binghamton Ny. 

I just picked up the NP-1 from Van Alstine .....Power amp with some new technology that Frank invented. I wanted a spare amp for a second system. I’m running a 25K rig and when I hooked the NP-1 that I just received ( the first run is already sold out)....I can’t stop listening to this Amp. It’s Magic.....and at $1199 it’s a steal. It bests other amps I have up to $8K....It has a presence that’s astonishing for a "cheap" amp. It’s staying in the big rig for a while.Use with Tubed pre- Amp.

I mentioned before but I’ll say it again. If you can find a Paradigm Founder dealer you really need to hear the 120H. Retail 9k, I got mine used in perfect condition for well under half price. They would pair very well with the class A Accuphase I believe. For the money I don’t think there is too much if anything that would compete IMHO. They sound amazing on every genre but Rock, Metal, reggae etc is really something.  
 

Im using an EL84 integrated and it pairs really well, still looking for a ss for comparison. 

Another vote here for the Paradigms. Also try listening to Martin Logan Electrostats....with powered bass like the Ethos...at moderate levels they are clear and for me non-fatiguing for hours. 

Your Speaker is called QLN Prestige 2 its within your budget .

@deep_333.......You have no idea what you're talking about......I heard you were a schill for Danny @GR. Everyone can see right thru you. 

@deep_333 - all true :-). I am not going to spend that much. I hear Porsche 718 EV convertible is coming, so I'll save for that hahaha.

I will try and see if I can Proac 48R or K3 to audition and maybe Dali Rubicon 8. But most probably I'll indeed should get Bullies :-)

Just past awards you see basic specifications 

@mbmi - I am sure Borresens is a nice speaker. However - I don’t need speaker for "all kinds of music" - jack of all trades is always a compromise at a given price point.

Only X2 is my price range and there are no dealers anywhere close to PNW. Borresens Web site is rather frustrating, such basic information like specs is nowhere to be found, just nice pics.

@mikhailark , With Borresen, you will need the X6 for the extra drivers (refer to earlier note on sound power) for your hard rock/metal. So, that is 25k w/tax. You may need different amplification than your Accuphase (most probably). You may end up needing a more "forgiving" dac (possibly). It is difficult to integrate subs with Borresen. Very few/specific subs seem to wanna play nice with it...Hence, you may easily end up spending 30k+ or 40k+ (i.e., extra work and expense).

On the contrary, the bully could be a lot less work at 5k, 6k with your Accuphase and starting to have a good time. GR may have made things a bit easier for you.

Nevertheless, the Borresen can be a great speaker for hard rock/metal "after all the stars aligned right".

@mbmi - I am sure Borresens is a nice speaker. However - I don't need speaker for "all kinds of music" - jack of all trades is always a compromise at a given price point. 

Only X2 is my price range and there are no dealers anywhere close to PNW. Borresens Web site is rather frustrating, such basic information like specs is nowhere to be found, just nice pics. 

larsman, I think with the older Harbeths that was the case, but the new versions are better for rock.  I had the Harbeth SHL5plus XD and thought they were pretty good with rock.   They even showcased them with a heavy dose of hard rock at one of their shows.  

I saw a recommendation for Harbeth. I had Harbeths for a number of years and for your musical preferences they are about the last speakers I would recommend. They are great for vocals, jazz, etc, but I found them really lacking for rock. I had KLH Model 5's and Fritz Carrera BE's and both rocked much harder than my Harbeths ever did and still sounded great.  

tomic601, I'm in Port Townsend as well and drove around [Narrows Bridge] to hear the Vandersteens in Tacoma. 

You mentioned Wilsons. I had the opportunity to hear some very Nice Wilsons within Jason Victor Serinus' reference system. The ones Jason had were quite a bit north of your price range, but I could certainly appreciate their DNA. 

I agree..

@deep_333 Ok.....If you like the Bullies so much...go buy them...I HAVE heard them...and I like them . They are great for Rock. If that’s mainly what you listen to , then they are the speaker for you. I can speak for the Borresens because I own them...They are fantastic speakers for ALL types of music. We have different tastes and that fact is respected.

I don’t need to buy another speaker. I have plenty of other things and It’s an overflowing house, in my case. But, the OP specifically mentions a budget of 10k or under, and says that he likes hard rock and metal. Hence, this bully suggestion came out, best possible sound for that cash and his preference in music.

As i mentioned on my earlier comment, i would have suggested a different speaker if he had a higher budget, 30k or so.

It is curious though that a guy says his budget is 10k or under and there are a bunch of other guys suggesting 40k, 50k, etc speakers to him... That’s the curious part, an assumption on the expansiveness of the OP’s wallet.

I know this is going to be a strange post in the mix of the other recommendations. but from what your describe your looking for,  I suggest you try a vintage set of large A/D/S speakers like the L810, L910 or the larger 20xx series even.

I've had many speakers over the years, the last that I sold were a huge disappointment Spendor D9.2's (@ $16,000 Canadian$). I kept taking them out and putting my vintage L910s back in as they did so many things better then the overly bright and analytical Spendor's. 

The A/D/S sound is big, smooth, non fatiguing, detailed enough, excellent sound stage and great bass. I really like their larger three way's they just keep me coming back from so many others. bested Proac D28's, Spendor D9.2's, Klipsch LaScala and a few others.

After a minor restoration i.e. re-cap, these speakers still give some of the best sound for what you describe and can be had for a fraction of your budget. maybe a speaker that can hold you over until you find a more expensive speaker you like.  

I love my Tannoy Cheviots, and would imagine the larger Ardens, just under $10 K per pair are even better. I listen to similar music to you, and have never found them fatiguing, though found them additionally expensive in that they did make me want to upgrade my amp, pre and speaker cables.  

I listen to my music at moderate levels and occasionally turn them up, and find they sound good, not loud. 

Btw, I especially appreciate your reference to Tinariwen. Even though you don’t do much live music, you should probably see them, especially in an environment where you can move around and watch from a point where the volume works for you. Simply amazing live

@deep_333 Ok.....If you like the Bullies so much...go buy them...I HAVE heard them...and I like them . They are great for Rock. If that's mainly what you listen to , then they are the speaker for you. I can speak for the Borresens because I own them...They are fantastic speakers for ALL types of music. We have different tastes and that fact is respected.

The Bullies are good speakers BUT in LOOKS and SQ...They simply don’t belong in the same conversation as some of the EXCEPTIONAL Speakers that are being discussed on this thread......PERIOD.

Did you hear these speakers? I have a feeling you didn’t. Guy in town got these in for himself and i got to hear it well and good...

What are these other exceptional speakers that blew these out of the water? If they are exceptional because of looks, ok, so be it/understandable. But, sonics, i don’t buy that notion at all...W.r.t looks, the bully with the walnut finish or whatever doesn’t look any worse in real life than any big old school jbl, tannoy, klh or even a mofi.

Metal/Hard Rock requires a significant amount of slam (no ph.shifts killing the deal in the higher octaves), significant sound power in the upper bass, lower mids, etc., not an abrasive top end like the klipsches and whatever else. The Bully has perfectly integrated rythmik style of servo subs from the designer (while he still had all his dofs open) covering 20 to 200 hz. It is a rarity or hasn’t been offered before. You won’t find it in those exceptional speakers. Some bigger eminence or a few of those in some of these other "exceptional" speakers don’t hold a candle to what a pair of servo subs can do. Resolution, clarity, etc (perceptually), i would put it up against many speakers that cost a magnitude more these days.

Do you know that there are guys who can easily afford half a million dollar rigs who sit around with that GR NX-Treme 7 foot tall speaker? It is approx a 5k kit (!!) that one builds. For the type of electronics that the OP has, he would be just fine.

Just because that GR dude gave you good things for charity prices didn’t make it a non-competitor (sonically) against the "exceptional" speakers.

tomic601

Agreed- the 3A Signature is a steal.

Happy Listening!

@northbeach Any chance you live near Woodmont ?

Another vote for the Vandersteen Treo or even the 3A-signature which when paired w a solid amp has amazing low end and the famous 5a midrange and tweeter. I am of course biased as i own Treo CT and 7’s, You have a fantastic Vandersteen dealer in Tacoma. On your drive back North, stop by and hear the 7’s.

Enjoy your search n the music

Jim

@audiokinesis - thanks much! The room is roughly 30x15x8. I don't have many room treatments, just what's left from my former HT setup - 6 12"x4' ASC tube traps and 4 6"x4' traps and maybe 5-6 1" 2'x2' absorption panels. Rug on the floor, thin carpeting.

Yes, I know about soft sound, but I guess I mostly meant "no bumps" around 5K :-) Speaker appearance does not matter much. 

I auditioned Klipsch couple of times, La Scala, corner horns, but never really found them to be rock speakers. Wonderful with voice and piano though.

I ruled out Legacy primarily on size and weight. Shipments gets to $500-600 plus I don't know how to get them down my long and steep driveway (trucks don't go there) and then downstairs with limited space to turn around.

Thanks!

@mikhailark, ime a "relaxed, non-fatiguing sound" is predicted by a gently downward-sloping first-arrival sound, and an off-axis sound that has a very similar spectral balance. I’m not a big fan of deliberately introducing dippage into the 2-6 kHz region you mentioned, as that can remove some of the upper harmonic richness that draws you into the music. 

Also, horns came up in the thread, and imo prosound horns (like you’d hear at a concert) are not representative of what good home audio horns can do. Most prosound horns deliberately introduce diffraction (via a sharp discontinuity in the horn itself) to improve the uniformity of their coverage pattern, but the downside is the introduction of a harshness that becomes increasingly audible and objectionable as the SPL goes up. Good home audio horns and waveguides do not have this issue, and have the advantage of reducing the spectral discrepancy between the first-arrival sound and the reflection field, which in turn is ime a contributor to long-term fatigue-free listening.

If you do find speakers in your price range that have the characteristics you want, don’t overdo it with the absorptive room treatments. If too much high frequency energy is removed from the reflection field, listening fatigue can actually be increased. This may be somewhat counter-intuitive so let me know if you’d like an explanation.

Can you give us a guesstimate of your room dimensions?

How critical is the appearance of the speakers?

Do you have a ballpark idea of the weight limitations, given that you’ll presumably have to move these by yourself?

Best of luck in your quest!

Duke

Aerial Acoustics and Sonus Faber both make highly listenable speakers in my experience

Harbeth

Joseph Audio Pulsar

Verity Audio - on the used market

@deep_333....I'm no dealer and I'm not affiliated with anyone but myself...I love Independent Manufacturers...I buy a lot of gear from them...I support them....I'm just Stating A Fact.....The Bullies are good speakers BUT in LOOKS and SQ...They simply don't belong in the same conversation as some of the EXCEPTIONAL Speakers that are being discussed on this thread......PERIOD.

Check out Dali speakers!  I thought the 2 tweeters would make them sound bright, but in reality they just have a really smooth transition from the mids to treble.

Let me tell you the legacy has a well reviewed dsp wavelet 2 that can make your speaker sound like you want it for your room.the only bad thing is price.electronic crossovers are coming of age .they don't strain the amp.enjoy the music and what you have.

Well I am not sure what in GR caused people to get angry? Engineering appears sound, measurements are good, adjustable sub section is a good thing, speakers go down to 20 almost flat, Danny improves and upgrades speakers from big names and people seem happy with his work.

Big names employ engineers like him. And after all, Tesla also was small shop installing batteries into Lotus frames... Linus started alone and almost dethroned huge names in operating systems with Linux...

@mikhailark ,

a) Several Agon guys are dealers (or pied pipers who work for such dealers) throwing names of things they sell at ya. GR is a manufacturer direct brand. Hence, no dealer middleman around here is making any cash if you bought a GR speaker. You will note similar levels of animosity on display for other manufacturer direct brands as well.

b) GR’s speaker upgrades (of other brands) tends to expose a lot of design flaws, excessive corner cutting, etc in name brands that these dealers tend to carry. When their sales dive downwards a bit thereafter (understandably), they have historically been mad at GR instead of telling their goofball speaker designer to get his act together.

To summarize, GR is a bit of a double whammy disruptor. Hence, the dealers association around here tends to hate him a bit.

• $8400 is Devore Fidelity 0/93

Well I am not sure what in GR caused people to get angry? Engineering appears sound, measurements are good, adjustable sub section is a good thing, speakers go down to 20 almost flat, Danny improves and upgrades speakers from big names and people seem happy with his work.

Big names employ engineers like him. And after all, Tesla also was small shop installing batteries into Lotus frames... Linus started alone and almost dethroned huge names in operating systems with Linux...

@mbmi - is anything wrong with them?

You’re comparing the GR Bullies to the speakers being mentioned here.....Good Luck,. I think we are all wasting our time here.

See the "Sonus Faber Question" thread.  

@deep_333 - Thanks! I also found GR and I am seriously looking into ordering pair of bullies. They indeed look like the ticket. I spoke to Danny as well wrt my search. 

@goose - Yeah, I wanted to drive down since they had Revel Studio 2 for sale, unfortunately, it is now sold. Looks like Stereotypes carry Proac so I may stop by there too.