Geoff: Seriously?!?!? Doesn't this count: --------------------------------------------------------- rel 06-07-18 6:30 PM Actually I know exactly what the phrase begs the question means and how to use it in a sentence. My father was an English professor. I'd call that a naked appeal to authority... --------------------------------------------------------- Sorry to all for the derail. I'll try to put it permanently to rest. The thread is really interesting, but I thought it might be fun to call GK on a logical and grammatical error, as he often makes it a point to do so with others. Oh well... |
geoffkait,
please take your personal battles with other members elsewhere, and stop polluting this thread.
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For God's sake guys, lets be adults.
Frank |
Mribob ..
Thanks for coming over, Bob. As usual, I enjoyed your company.
" Mos" and Robert stayed until 10:30 pm and we continued the listening session and then watched a little TV while we ate the Cheeseburgers I made.
The noise floor is really low as you heard. We tried an experiment after you left. Mos brought his custom mat from his Well Tempered turntable to try. We could clearly hear a degradation in the sound with the mat. Here's the interesting thing, we also found that the analog sounds better ... more extended highs and a more open presentation without the clamp. I've been listening with this clamp for years now and never knew the difference. These are things that were hidden before the latest TC pasting. I'll demonstrate it for you the next time you're over.
Frank |
AMG ..
Stop sweating the small stuff.
This is my thread and not Tim Mrock's thread. I'm not being paid a red cent for my input here. I'm just an audio enthusiast who has found what he believes to be a product that will transform the audio and video hobby. My goal is to share the experience with other enthusiasts like myself ... and possibly you. If Tim Mrock becomes a multi-bizzionaire because of this thread ... well, he deserves it. My suggestion is that you try the product and then go from there with your opinions.
Take care ...
Frank |
@oregonpapa I would not call 36 pages of posts "The small stuff". As TM's front man you have done nothing but denigrate naysayers but put up little in the way of measurements to support TC used in the audio arena. This thread is and has been one big blatant advertisement for a product, which should follow the site policy, or do the moderators and site admin allow favouritism to certain products? As a moderator on another forum you should know better, and act as you should on these threads.
@geoffkait Geoff, forever trolling through any subject regardless of interest adding his idiotic little posts like, a little terrier dog at you ankles. perhaps when you reach 10,000you might go poof! or splat, like what doggies doo.
I read threads and posts to learn. If you can't say what you need to say in 2 or 3 posts then you are being deliberately obstructive or evasive, or you don't possess command of the language that you need to repeat, and repeat your self. I think you both just love the sight of your own posts. |
@oregonpapa The person responsible for TC HAS posted on this thread and discusses shipments and other commercial discussions with other posters. Don't say this thread hasn't been used as a direct commercial conduit, because it happens to be in black and white, and just a few pages back if you care to read. Again, this forum is being used for direct commercial gain where other manufacturers can't. Rules are supposed to apply to everyone aren't they? |
This thread is an obvious commercial enterprise filled with the same hyperbole and sales zeal as the SR red and black fuse threads. It's "Beta testers to sales generators," and hey...Mrock gets 3 grand for every 10 bottles of this stuff he moves so he SHOULD share the profit with his athletic supporters as he utterly owes 'em...now back to my $500 fuses...if I can move 20 of these a week... |
+1 @amg56
I agree these are blatantly commercial threads by Oregonpapa and the manufacturer. The claims are totally outrageous and ridiculous.
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rel, maybe change your moniker to derel. But seriously, don’t you have anything better to do? I’m filing your posts under Who Cares?
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tommylion
geoffkait,
please take your personal battles with other members elsewhere, and stop polluting this thread.
Calm down, tommy boy. You’re not even in this thread. |
AMG ... Yep, Tim has contributed to this thread. Its a new product and its uses need some clarification at times ... therefore, Tim has to give his input. - As TM’s front man you have done nothing but denigrate naysayers
Thanks for reading completely though the 36 pages. Did you miss the fact that the only times I’ve taken issue with the "naysayers" was in retribution for those few who use bullying tactics and/or personal attacks, or did that get by you? Question: Ad or no ad ... why does it get your nose out of joint? If it upsets you, or makes you uncomfortable in any way, I’m sorry .... but as you’re aware, there are other threads and other forums available to you. Perhaps you’d be more comfortable spending your time there instead of here. Take care .... Frank |
Shadorn sez: - The claims are totally outrageous and ridiculous.
Oh, so you've finally used the product? Of course you have, how else could you come up with that opinion? What devise or type of meter did you use for your measurements in order to come to that conclusion? Frank |
Tom, I’ve asked you several times to explain what in Tarnation you’re talking about. The last time I asked you to explain, a couple weeks ago, you copped out by saying you had to catch a plane. So, I’ll ask you again. Instead of repeating the same, “it’s the Polarity of Shear” mantra of yours over and over can you try explain in detail what the devil you’ve been trying to say all these years. If you have some big breakthrough to announce the stage is all yours. This is your Big Chance. Am I not fair?
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@oregonpapa You and Tim have use this forum to fish for participants (or suckers) for the commercial product TC. Do you agree or disagree that Total Contact sold by Tim Mrock is a commercial product? Simple question that the moderators of this site should take note of. You have been actively spruiking this product since 26 Dec 2017. It has used 36 pages of spruiking to say very little. Sales people, or reputable products do not take 36 pages of a forum that is inappropriate for a commercial product. Why has Tim Mrock not set up his own web page for his product and reviewers, instead of hiding behind an inappropriate forum to ADVERTISE and SELL his commercial product. This is not the appropriate place, according to Audiogon Policy (I can cite the policy if you want), to advertise, promote and sell a commercial product. Why are you so blatantly deceitful about your dealings on this thread. It is NOT yours, nor is it available to sell commercial goods. I believe in honesty. Why am I anal about this. Because it is deceitful behaviour. I hate deceit of any kind. That's me; And I will stand up for myself. |
amg56,
I don't believe you are a moderator here? Bottom line, if the moderators agreed with you, and others, that this thread was in violation of forum rules, they would have shut it down by now. They haven't, so...?
You can protest all you want, but, just like I have no control over what you post, you have to live with what the moderators decide.
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I’ve already filed amg56’s comments under blah, blah, blah. |
amg56"@oregonpapa You and Tim have use this forum to fish for participants (or suckers) for the commercial product TC."
As Americans would say perhaps you should STFU because it is the team of Moderators who manage, control and monitor this site so it is not for you alone to evaluate, determine and act as you see fit against those who contribute here if you do not like this thread or find it has made meaningful contributions to the site you are free to leave but not free under the forum rules to continually attack those with who you have cultivated philosophical differences.
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Pretty obvious that this thread is being used to sell a product. Not sure how you could argue that this is not what’s happening. If there is a rule forbidding this practice, then whoever is responsible for enforcing the rules is asleep at the wheel |
tlong1958"whoever is responsible for enforcing the rules is asleep at the wheel'
This is an unjustified, unwarranted and inappropriate attack against the team of Moderators who
manage, control and monitor this site they deserve your cooperation and respect you do not know what you are talking about and would be well adviced to get your facts in order before launching unfounded criticism against the group.
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Rules? Where we’re going we don’t need rules. We’re going back. Back to the...future!
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AMG ... Sorry your nose is bent. What you think of as "deceit," I, and others, see this thread as a sort of social club for those who are TC enthusiasts. Its kind of like a local pub where like-minded folks meet. Every once in awhile, a drunk staggers in from the pub down the street and starts raising hell here. As they start to act up, or vomit on the floor, we just toss them out on their ear. Unfortunately, some don’t get the message and need further tossing. You’re sort of a newcomer who staggered into the pub, and right away, you start telling the regulars and the barkeep how you don’t like the barmaid. Well, as I said, there are other pubs down the street with different barkeeps and different barmaids that you might find more to your liking. Go there if you’ll feel more comfortable. Obviously, in reading the entire 36 page thread, you’ve missed all of the discussions in this thread that have nothing to do with TC. Various music recommendations, for example. In the meantime guys ... If you like the Hammond B-3, here’s an excellent recording. Great playing. Especially good is the presence of the drum set ... its among the best in my collection. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Joey-DeFrancesco-All-or-Nothing-at-All-New-CD/361812530483?epid=54443031&am...Frank |
oregonpapa OP
Who’s John Galt?
I don’t know (Shrugging)
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Geoff & Al - Thanks for mentioning Brian Kyle, who was a very close friend of mine. Brian was a great audiophile, a complete goofball, and a very, very good friend. The last (and best) X-treme A/C cable he built is still in my system. |
@oregonpapa It seems like you have appointed yourself as the moderator and now you are deciding who should be thrown out. I don't think that's how it works, bud. I've been lurking on this thread, and I read a lot of it. Now, I'm commenting, so does that mean I should be removed too, because I am a "drunk who staggers in from the pub down the street"?
+1 for @amg56 calling this out as a marketing thread. That IS what this is.oregonpapa OP2,217 posts06-08-2018 9:18amAMG ...
Sorry your nose is bent.
What you think of as "deceit," I, and others, see this thread as a sort of social club for those who are TC enthusiasts. Its kind of like a local pub where like-minded folks meet.
Every once in awhile, a drunk staggers in from the pub down the street and starts raising hell here. As they start to act up, or vomit on the floor, we just toss them out on their ear. Unfortunately, some don’t get the message and need further tossing.
You’re sort of a newcomer who staggered into the pub, and right away, you start telling the regulars and the barkeep how you don’t like the barmaid. Well, as I said, there are other pubs down the street with different barkeeps and different barmaids that you might find more to your liking. Go there if you’ll feel more comfortable. |
aalenik ...
Brian was a friend of mine as well ... and you are spot on in your assessment of him. Brian and I had a blast one year at CES trying to get some of the rooms to use a little of his X-treme. We were successful in only one display, that of a major manufacturer ... and it made a significant improvement.
Frank |
soundermn ...
Thanks for stopping by the pub.
As long as you don’t start raising hell in the pub and try to burn it down like a few arsonists have in the past, you are welcome here. And no ... I am not a moderator, only the person who started the thread, and one who wants to keep it on track without personal attacks or attempts to destroy a fellow businessman who is trying to introduce a new product. For clarity, I humbly suggest that you start on page one and read the thread in its entirety with an open mind. Hopefully, you’ll gain some insight into what I’m talking about.
Frank. |
Brian’s wife was kind enough to let me carry on with part of his legacy, the Tourmaline Gun. Too bad Quicksilver Gold and Liquid Resolution disappeared.
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Why is it that so many GON forums are for the purpose of conversation concerning various audio products? Are they also in violation of the forum "code"? What purpose are the forums if one cannot write about a product? There are 1000s of forums concerning products, why is TC so different? I’m sure the same denigrators of this forum feel the same way concerning SR fuses, SR cables, SR duplexes, SR HFTs, etc. etc. No one is twisting one’s arm to agree or purchase SR products or anyone else’s products.
I am happy to read of real life experiences with products by owners of them. Unfortunately, audio systems and acoustic spaces do not respond similarly in one circumstance as in another which can often be attributed to synergistic effects between products (or lack thereof). My back-up EAR 890 amp works great on Legacy Signature IIIs and terrible on Legacy Focuses, attributable to the latter’s low impedance in the bass.
If it wasn’t for Frank, I would not have ventured into purchasing SR products, especially the duplexes, fuses and HFT system. |
fleschler275 posts06-08-2018 4:13pmWhy is it that so many GON forums are for the purpose of conversation concerning various audio products? Are they also in violation of the forum "code"? What purpose are the forums if one
cannot write about a product? @fleschler There are plenty of threads where people tout a particular product or service. And that is generally accepted. IMO, what’s different on this one is that this thread seems to be the only place the product is marketed. There isn’t a web store where you can buy it. You can’t get it at a dealer. It’s not on Amazon. So if the only way to get it is to email (PM) someone in this thread, then this is a commercial use of an AGon thread. That is why I gave props to amg56. I could certainly misunderstand. I read much of this thread, but not everything. There’s a lot of senseless drivel in here that’s way off topic, and I couldn’t stand to read 1700+ comments, too many of which are attacks on other posters. |
Well I read the whole thread and it’s all about how wonderful this product is and maybe it is wonderful, I don’t know. But it reads like an advertisement or an info commercial and the guy is confirming orders and talking tracking numbers and if this isn’t pretty factual info than excuse me.
But it is a big advertisement for a product |
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Over time, I’ve started numerous threads here on A’gon regarding products that I find beneficial to my audio system. Here’s a few:
Audio Research ... Ref 75 se.
Herbie’s ... tube dampeners.
SR ... HFT’s
SR ... Level III power cords.
SR ... Red, Black & Blue fuses.
Originlive ... Custom turntable belt.
Audio Technica ... OC9-Mk III & ART-9.
VonGaylord ... Speaker cables and interconnect cables.
In about half of these threads, I’ve been attacked, demeaned, called a "shill," a "paid employee," and on and on ...
Nothing wrong with legitimate, constructive criticism of course, but that’s not what I’m talking about.
Its the same sick individuals over and over who take delight in destroying anything that appears positive.
When an individual says that a product is a "scam," or "bunk," without ever trying it, well ... there is a hidden agenda of some type in the works. These are the ones I refer to as destroyers and arsonists.
I believe these are the same types who take delight in keying a brand new car in a parking lot .... just out of pure jealousy, envy and hate. Its a sickness that contributes to the breakdown of our civil society.
Since when is the businessman to be demeaned? Since when is it okay to make an attempt to drive an entrepreneur out of business for entertainment? There’s about four or five individuals who lurk on these threads and look for opportunities to be total jerks. I’ll call them out every time.
Frank
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@t_ramey thanks for sharing the ad. Still, the ad points right back to this thread as proof of its effectiveness.
All well and good, and I am in no way disputing if the product works or not. Just saying this thread is a commercial with some fans touting the product excessively. If AGon moderators think it's okay, then so be it. I do think it is questionable if it should be allowed. But, I'm not a moderator and don't wish to decide which threads should stay or go, or which participants should stay or go.
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soundermn ... - "... with some fans touting the product excessively."
What seems excessive to one, doesn’t necessarily seem excessive to others. Could "excessive touting" be nothing more than enthusiasm for a product? Frank |
Advertisements are intrusive and generally not easy to avoid. This thread is NOT intrusive (Just the opposite, you actually have to navigate to it, and open it, in order to read it.), and is EASILY avoided by those who are offended by it in any way. The real problem is that some think it should not be allowed to exist, merely because it offends them.
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^^^ Well put, tommylion ... :-)
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I guess most of the threads I visit here on Audiogon would be considered a commercial or advertisement like High Fidelity, Core Power Technologies, Cerious Technologies...
I tried the Total Contact enhancer and I really like it, so much so I can’t go back and not have it applied to my cables and connectors. It’s probably my favorite add on I’ve done to my system except for maybe the High Fidelity mc-0.5’s but even then when the TC is applied to them they work hand in hand.
But it doesn’t work for everyone. A buddy of mine who I share a lot of similar likes and tastes when it comes to tweaks and certain products does not like what it does for his system. The only negative I’ve had with it is when I applied it to the SR Blue fuse on my Lampi Atlantic dac. Made everything sound thin and bright. After two days of it not changing much I went and wiped it off the fuse and everything warmed back up. |
This is just another thread of owners/users that love a product and like to post on their experiences with it. There is always one initial excited owner that starts the thread and remains active. This has been done on countless threads since the inception of Agon. I know because I have been active all these years here.
It is actually one of the top purposes for these threads in the first place. This is a completely righteous thread! Real learning and discovery about products that are fabulous and improve our audio systems. Owners and users posting actual experiences. Goodness, this is the way it used to be here and it was a glorious thing. Threads like this are where we learned about products like the TRL Dude, Supratek, Lightspeed attenuator, and so many others. Amazing to me some want the perfect example of a helpful audio thread removed? Astounding actually.
The only portion of this thread that is not righteous is the bashing of the product from folks who have never even used it! This is a strange phenonima indeed and it seems to be growing in popularity. It is insidious and ruining this site slowly. While that happened some in the past (bashing), it was usually from folks with actual experience with the product in question. Sharing a negative experience after actually using a product properly is always welcomed and reasonable. |
I am not for or against the product. I could not care one way or another. But when a policy which disallows manufacturers to advertise in threads, excepting the market place, is blatantly being flouted, why should it not be called out. Now who is doing the squealing and calling me to task. I have not bent the rules or crossed any line. You can hide behind any vociferous posts by members on the "what's the problem?" side, but there are posts that do not meet the policy. I do not want to spoil anyone parade, and I am not saying that posts referring to the positives of the use of the product should not be posted. In fact this is what the forum is about. I just find that 36 pages of "advertisement" for the commercial product a bit over the top and pushes the boundary of a forum policy. |
Right on, Grannyring. If not interested in the topic of this thread, move on to something you like. Don't knock it till you've tried it.
I am enjoying the music even more at week four of Total Contact, an audio bargain.
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-amg56
I gotta ask, what’s different about this thread vs the various Core Power Tech threads that discussed the 1800 and other products from Mark Schifter with Mark using those threads to talk about his business and discuss shipping times (or lack thereof) ? |
@t_ramey The CPT thread, when I joined it had been in damage control for some time after it was found that the company was in financial stress. There was no advertising because there were no products available. In fact the owner was much vilified over it that misdemeanours of his past from a decade ago were posted and he was viciously attacked by some via anonymous posters. You may be aware, or not, that threads advertising Tekton speakers were pulled very quickly. in fact there were 3 threads deleted on the same subject. And the CPT threads got pulled as well. If I were you, I advise you to compare apples with apples. TC is a commercial product that IS using this thread to spread the word. There are so many posts in the thread that the promotion is subliminal. As I said in my last post, I am all for discussion on all matters within the forum. But I take exception that some manufacturers/marketers are pulled and some are allowed to continue to advertise, hidden in the guise of product discussion. Why isn't there a separate web page for the product? Because, like Tupperware, the product relies on word of mouth, or in this case, post by post. As I also stated in my previous post, I am neither for against the product. There are only empirical statements available on its benefit so I remain uninterested. But to those posters telling me to go away a do something else, to wit Tommylion 'Advertisements are intrusive and generally not easy to avoid. This thread is NOT intrusive (Just the opposite, you actually have to navigate to it, and open it, in order to read it.), and is EASILY avoided by those who are offended by it in any way. The real problem is that some think it should not be allowed to exist, merely because it offends them." The only way a person finds out about a product, a review or comment is by reading each thread and post. If my appraisal polarises some readers because it offends the norm, need to a big drink of reality. I am entitled to my opinion as much as the rest of you. There will always be like posts and the questioners. Or is this only a likes club? I thought redneck discrimination had been cast to the annuls of history. it would seem that some of you have not caught up with the modern times. I am sorry if what I say disturbs some of you, and creates ripples in a cosy pond. And I am vilified by casting a stone into the water. What next? Am I to be crucified? Hung drawn and quartered? Expelled to the naughty room? I thought free speech and guns are what Americans valued and held dear to your hearts. At least we banned the guns. |
@perfectpathtech- I have a few questions regarding your product if you would be so kind as to take a few minutes to answer them...
What exactly is micro arcing as it pertains to audio?
What sets your product apart from other much less expensive ’graphene’ products?
How did you come to the conclusion of your claim that your product will never, ever degrade?
Why do you not offer any money back guarantee, not even partial, for your product? (no, you have not addressed this question anywhere)
I have no recourse but to ask you these questions on this forum because when I very politely and respectfully asked you a question on your Audiogon sales site, you repeatedly erased them and then went as far as to have me blocked. Final question- why did you do that instead of just answering these simple, straightforward questions?
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amg56"I am not for or against the product. I could not care one way or another. But when a policy which disallows manufacturers to advertise in threads, excepting the market place, is blatantly being flouted, why should it not be called out.Now who is doing the squealing and calling me to task."If you are a member of the team of Moderators on this site then of course you are free to act on your solitary determination and delete this thread in it's entirety and for that matter disable my account for daring to challenge you. If you are not
a member of the team of Moderators on this site then you should consider that those who are the moderators have concluded this thread is proper and appropriate so you're whining and squealing is uncalled for and in vain and obviously you are against this product which is explains you're self righteous posturing.
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thecarpathian"Why do you not offer any money back guarantee, not even partial, for your product?"
Many things in life are sold with no money back guarantee so I am not sure what you're problem is here if this causes you great concern it may be best for you to not further consider purchase of this product and simply move on rather than try to create some controversy here because you are fearful and uncertain as to the applicability of this product to you're system. |
Like @oregonpapa says..."This is my thread"..
Later on, he goes on to purport his stating of other threads.
Me thinks, he's wrong. He may have started this thread, it belongs to us all. This (may) be were he goes off track...who knows?
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@clearthink Everyone is entitled to their opinion, good or bad, for or against, or 50/50 down the middle. It is supposed to be a free world I understand. I don't think an OP owns a thread. It is just a party starter... I am really not upset or angry. Just stating an opinion. |
