Geoff, that would make a terrific song..!
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Being not nearly as learned as most of you on this forum, I spend the majority of my time here reading and learning and drawing my own conclusions on what I perceive to be fact or fiction. Right or wrong, my perceptions are mine until convinced otherwise. I rarely post unless it is to ask a question. I hold no degree in engineering, I can't state unequivocally whether this product works as described or not unless I hear it for myself. But I can still draw a conclusion based on what I've read so far.. Those who are advocating this product-Guys, honestly, you sound like one of those over the top infomercials that come on at 3 a.m. You're hyping it like its the greatest system transforming breakthrough in decades. It works like no other product before it. Put it on any and everything electrical. ("But, that is just scratching the surface of what this magic paste does...!") Whenever a product is hyped to that extreme, it's only natural to be skeptical. You don't have to have an engineers perceived mindset to be so. Anyone who is not foolish with his money will want to know; How does it work? Why does it work? Does the graphene have a higher conductivity rate than the copper or silver wire carrying the signal? Is the paste somehow purifying the signal or the electricity going through the wire? How is that possible? It eliminates micro-arching? What test equipment did the maker use to measure this? How can you possibly know that unless it was evaluated scientifically and data collected to prove this? If it truly works as is claimed, there MUST be a scientifically verifiable explanation and data as to why. Yet the maker offers none. I simply have to go on blind faith and testimonials and plunk down 300 of my hard earned dollars to see for myself. And if it makes no difference in my system and apparently any other piece of electrical equipment you can think of, well that's just too bad for me because the maker offers nothing in the way of a guarantee. Do you see where I'm coming from? No data whatsoever to back up what is claimed the product does, and no guarantee whatsoever that it does what is claimed. It only makes business sense that if you're selling a product of this sort for that amount of money, you would have proof to show it works as advertised. I'm not trying to be a jerk, these are simply the facts as I understand them. That is why I and many others are understandably skeptical. Someone please correct me if I am in error.
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Well, before this degrades any further and someone gets pushed off the swings at recess, I believe I have a solution to all this back and forth...I find it curious and interesting that this thread has been raging for over a week now and nothing at all has been posted by the inventor himself, Mr. Tim Mrock. After all, he is a fellow member, and his product is taking quite a bashing by some posters. No one else has a more vested interest in this than he. Surely he can put a halt to all of this. He can answer any and all questions those of us might have, offering his insight as to how and why his product works as the users claim, without giving up any proprietary secrets. Surely he must know how it works. After all, he labored 15 years to perfect his formula. He can’t do that and not know every minute detail of the process of his invention. Perhaps he can share information on the several patents he holds that helped make his invention a reality. I’m not being glib, or facetious, I’m serious. It can only benefit him to bring the ’naysayers’ on board or silence them by explaining the product and process. By not chiming in, he’s missing out on a huge potential market, where his sales are likely to increase exponentially. Personally, I would like to know how it works, why it works, at what point did he decide to try graphene, what did he try prior to graphene, what does cryogenic treatment do to his product, what data can he show that his product does what is claimed, etc...I find these all to be fair and legitimate questions that only he can answer. Perhaps Frank or Tom can give him a heads up about what’s being debated and he will put this whole thread to rest.
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Wow. I'm with falconquest and his very wise post. Perhaps certain parties should read and/or re-read it at the top of this page. This thread has degenerated into nothing but petty insults, sophomoric name calling and personal attacks from both detractors and advocates alike. It isn't fazing the detractors, but it is, in my opinion, crushing the credibility of the advocates. I came on here looking for facts about this new product. So far, four pages and counting of nothing but bickering...And as falconquest said, if I was at all interested in this product, after reading this thread, I too would just walk away...
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Well Frank, since you don’t mind bantering back and forth with the detractors and I’m all out of ’safe places’ to hide, I would appreciate your opinion and answers to a few questions and concerns regarding your posts about this product since Mr. Mroz has evidently appointed you spokesperson by proxy. Let’s begin:
Do you agree that there’s merit in the old saying "If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is"...?
As evidenced in some of your posts, one could be led to believe you’re prone to hyperbolic prose. How are we to distinguish fact from hyperbole in your original post?
What the heck is micro-arching? You wrote it twice so I don’t believe it was a typo. I can’t find a definition or explanation for it anywhere. Did you mean micro-arcing as the retired audio reviewer said in his review? So, what the heck is micro-arcing? I can’t find that anywhere either. You stated the paste eliminates it (well, micro-arching anyway). So, surely you must know what it is besides, you know, tiny electrical arcs (or arches?) that no one on the internet I can find has ever discussed. Please correct me if I am in error.
Tell me again why this ’magic paste’ (your words) doesn’t even come with a money back guarantee? Wait, I remember. To paraphrase your words, it’s because (Tim?) would end up with a bunch of returned half used tubes that he couldn’t resell. What are you implying? It appears that it means Mr. Mroz finds ’bunches’ of his fellow Audiogoner’s and well, people in general (if in fact he is marketing his product elsewhere) to be inherently dishonest. They would use it in their systems, reap the benefits of its ’magic’ then dishonestly return the unused portion for a refund. Is that correct? Does he feel that way? If not, what did you mean by your words?
And what is most curious: It appears by your and Tom’s and the reviewer’s posts that there’s nothing in the way of electrical equipment and electronic products that this paste doesn’t vastly improve upon. It can even reduce your electric bill and help save the environment! I find it interesting the audio reviewer attributed all these electrical benefits to the paste and didn’t even consider that at least some of the improvements might have come from the fact Mr. Mroz and associate spent 11 hours cleaning and polishing every singe electrical contact all over his house, including the meter box, service boards and circuit breakers. If this paste can do everything that it’s been claimed to do,(and I’m not saying it can’t) this product is a game changer on a global scale. Electronics corporations, electric companies, the defense and aerospace industries, battery manufacturers, the automotive industry, myriad multi-billion dollar corporations should be lining up for this product. And yet, you’re here on our little forum touting it as a simple ’tweak’ to our stereo systems, and Mr. Mroz is busy putting it in tiny 1.5 ml tubes ("that come with a large syringe"...!) Don’t you find that odd? Isn’t that ridiculously small potatoes compared to its potential for such large scale industrial applications? No sane entrepreneur would miss out on such lucrative sales potential. Wouldn’t you think it’s more economical production wise to sell it by the drum to these corporate giants as opposed to packaging it in such minuscule amounts? Is large scale production in the works? Oh, right, I forgot. There would have to be concrete scientific data to prove that it actually does what it’s claimed to do. There would have to be proof of measured improvements. There would have to be a guarantee that it works as promised. But, as far as I can tell, until Mr. Mroz states otherwise, there isn’t any of that. Silly me. I forgot this, too. You Don't need proof of anything if your just selling it to audio enthusiasts. Do you see why there is skepticism? I honestly hope it works as you and Tom described. I really do. It would benefit society and our environment in so many ways....
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You are correct, Geoff. I’m not saying it doesn’t work. I would never make that statement without verifying it in my system with my own ears. But given what I’ve read so far and the hefty claims about the product, plus the fact that I can’t get a single answer to any fair and basic question about the product, I’m quite skeptical that it works.
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Hi everyone! I just beta tested this terrific new thingy. It's a box shaped device. I brought it into my house, and all my lights shone like the sun, my stereo's been replaced by a magic teleportation device that whisks me off to any live music performance in history, my electric meter started running backwards, and my clothes washed themselves! Not only that, when I brought it back outside, roses started blooming, birds started singing sweeter, and Mary Poppins came down and handed me a satchel full of Bitcoins! These boxes are soon going to be available for only $299! Just don't ask me how it works, because that would be scientific mumbo jumbo, and only ignorant naysayers want that! Also don't ask about a refund, because there isn't one. That's right! No proof it works, and none of that refund foolishness if it doesn't. Because, after all, we all know how dishonest we all are....Now, how many can you I put you all down for??
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Hi, Frank! My goodness, there you go again with that hyperbolic foolishness. Can’t answer my questions so you resort to petty insults, name calling, and now my mental state is being called into question. And here I was being civil. Nevertheless, here is my point by point rebuttal:
1. Your hyperbolic prose-"They lead narrow, darkened little lives and get their rocks off by tearing at the seams of the dreams of others..."
"As far as I’m concerned, they are attempting to destroy those with an entrepreneurial spirit and even the free enterprise system itself..."
THAT’S not hyperbole?? Well, maybe not the first one. That’s just lousy writing.
2. I ask what the heck is micro-arching and you go off on some ridiculous tangent about typos, Dan Quayle, and his spelling abilities. I plainly said I didn’t believe it was a typo. It’s also quite plain you have no idea what it is, yet you state the product prevents it. Interesting. And apparently, you and Dan Quayle had the same spelling teacher, because you are embarrassingly wrong- the plural of potato is in fact, ready?POTATOES! Yeah, just like I spelled it in my text. If you need to know how to spell any other basic words, just ask and I’ll explain.
3. Magic paste no money back guarantee-You just proved you believe people are inherently dishonest, and anyone who thinks they aren’t is being naive. Does that include those who hype certain pastes? I like to think there is a lot more honesty in the world than not. But what do I know? I’m wearing my rose colored glasses.
4. You are taking a partial statement and giving a rebuttal that has nothing to do with the rest of the statement. Nothing.
5. The post you missed- I clearly state the audio reviewer states this, word for word mind you, as fact in his review. Didn’t you read it??! Perhaps you should go back and enlighten yourself.
6. Proof that it does as claimed- You got me, Frank. I believe in having evidence that something works before I spend my money on it. How ignorant of me. What do you believe in, fairies, pixie dust, and magic paste?
7. I hope the product works and you don’t believe me- Don’t you think inferring I’m a liar is an assault on my integrity? Or are you psychic and know everything I hope and know? You’re not psychic, are you?? I’m only asking because you’ve accused others of being so, and I thought it might be a nifty club to join.
My personal favorite- "I tend to believe that even answering each of your questions in detail, you still will remain a skeptic..."Each of my questions?? Start with one of my questions.Honestly, Frank, you’re really not helping your cause at all..... |
As well as you, jaybe. Well stated.
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Well stated, ps. Well stated...
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You’re not alone, dynaquest4, I’m at three and counting, and they were laughably mild compared to what was allowed to remain on here...they even took one off asking why they took one off!
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I can't answer that, Tom. If I mention his name, I'll get deleted....
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Frank, your entire demeanor has changed and now you’re posting like an absolute cherub. I applaud you for your realization that name calling, insults, and personal attacks are no way to advocate for a new product. And no, I’m not starting anything. I’m just wondering why now 4 of my posts and those of a few other members have been deleted when I cannot recall a violation of the rules in any of them, and much, MUCH worse posts were allowed to remain. Just wondering if that had anything to do with your new demeanor, that’s all. Have a productive day as well... |
@hifiman5 , on this thread, the only rationale I can come up with is this thread had devolved into a free for all. You know what I'm talking about if you read all 6 pages. Assumably, the moderators have decided enough was enough, allowed all the former nasty stuff to remain, but starting recently, put the kibosh on anything even remotely off color. Honestly, none of my posts violated the rules as stated, (they weren't exactly nice, and were clever as all get out, but violated no rules that I can see) and neither did the other deleted posts. Perhaps for the sake of civility this was done.
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@robergerma, what is the gold dust/wd40 tweak?I'm with Frank, sounds pretty darned messy....
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@dynaquest4, that’s exactly what I wondered in a previous post. Why spend so many years developing and perfecting your product, then selling it as a simple ’tweak’ for our stereo systems and house electronics when this appears to be a game changer on-literally-a global scale?
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@oregonpapa, perhaps Randy-11 will answer your question when you answer the question ps posed to you. The one where he posted that he was purchasing a different product and you told him there's a sucker born every minute. You can't have it both ways, sir. If you're going to call someone out on what they posted, have the intestinal fortitude to answer when you're called out...Not starting anything moderators, just making a truthful observation and expressing an opinion...
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Frank, here’s the point I was making. You’re defending the product you believe in from the naysayers and skeptics by basically saying "You shouldn’t knock a product you’ve never tried and know nothing about", fair enough? But, when ps posted he was ordering a competing product without, mind you, putting down the product you’re advocating in any way, he incurred the "There’s a sucker born every minute" comment. There’s not a lot of ways to interpret that. And unlike me, he was nothing but respectful and courteous. And when he called you out on it, you wouldn’t answer. Now, by your own admission, you are not familiar with, nor have you ever tried the product ps is trying. Yet he’s a sucker for ordering it. You knocked a product you’ve never tried and know nothing about. Exactly what you’re telling others not to do. Did you make that assessment at least in part based on the price of the product? I wasn’t speaking of anything Randy wrote, or dynaquest4, or anyone else. I was speaking specifically about ps and his question. That’s what I mean by you can’t have it both ways. As far as what anyone else is posting, it’s entirely up to you how you react to their comments, it’s your thread.....and seriously, if the paste is in fact as good as described, schleps like me being skeptical about it, isn’t going to slow it down in the least.
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@clearthink, So, we’re only asking these fair and legitimate questions because we’re too poor to pay the cost of entry for this product? What an odd and demeaning assessment. I can assure you, I’m more than capable of paying for this product. Know why I’m capable of paying the price of entry? Because I don’t blindly throw my money around. I do my due diligence and ask fair and legitimate questions about products such as these before parting with my money. And if I don’t get the answers I seek, they don’t get my money. And I can assure you, you’ll never see me buying a $4 cup of coffee either, even though I’m quite capable financially of doing so. And by the way, the only person to have posted such things as a sucker is born every minute, and a fool and his money are soon parted, would be the OP.
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@oregonpapa, riding in the car music today was a little Dave Brubeck mixed in with Tony Bennet. Find that era to be top shelf stuff...
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@clearthink,
"...there are multiple users here for whom the cost of entry to utilize this product is excessive for their limited budget..." If something one wants to purchase is too expensive (excessive) for one to afford with one’s limited budget, that means one does not have enough money to afford it. That means one is too poor to be purchasing said product. And I do get the idea. When fair and legitimate questions are asked and no answers to any of them are given, why wouldn’t you ask them again? Please tell me. How is wanting to know why no kind of guarantee is given on a product an illegitimate question? Is there a standard number of times a question may be asked before it delegitimizes itself? And, I finally did receive an answer. I was told and others (paraphrasing) that there is no guarantee because people are inherently dishonest, they’ll use it, reap its benefits, and then return the unused portion. And if I believe otherwise, I’m naive and looking at the world through rose colored glasses. Hardly a glowing endorsement for the honesty of the product, especially given the gobs of perceived hyperbole being thrown around this thread. You’ve obviously read through the posts, it’s all right in there. If you were contemplating buying this product, would that answer sit well with you? I was trying to get straight up answers to straight up questions, regardless of what you may think, and it devolved into a tit for tat with Frank. Now that Mr. Mrock has chimed in, I will address my questions to him. Good day to you.
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I can’t Geoff, it got deleted! Although I am a skeptic, I wish Tim well with his graphene product. @oregonpapa, Frank, good luck in all your audio endeavors, and life in general. I allowed myself to get carried away with my sniping and other such foolishness. You seem like a good guy. And I promise I’m not near as big a jerk as I sometimes sounded. I am out....
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@perfectpathtech- I have a few questions regarding your product if you would be so kind as to take a few minutes to answer them...
What exactly is micro arcing as it pertains to audio?
What sets your product apart from other much less expensive ’graphene’ products?
How did you come to the conclusion of your claim that your product will never, ever degrade?
Why do you not offer any money back guarantee, not even partial, for your product? (no, you have not addressed this question anywhere)
I have no recourse but to ask you these questions on this forum because when I very politely and respectfully asked you a question on your Audiogon sales site, you repeatedly erased them and then went as far as to have me blocked. Final question- why did you do that instead of just answering these simple, straightforward questions?
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@clearthink- When did you change your name to perfectpathtech? Do you go around all the forums answering questions that are not addressed to you, and have zero to do with you, or do you just do it on this one? You infer I have a problem that causes me great concern. That I am fearful and uncertain. That is utter nonsense. Let me tell you how things work in my country- I live in a free market society. I, as a consumer in a free market society, have every right to ask questions about a product sold in said free market society. I also have the right to free speech, in this case in the form of the written word. You have butted in before when I asked this question, so I will ask you- why is that question such a problem for you? Why is it causing you such great concern that you feel you must go as far as to speak for another forum member?
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@clearthink- I never said, nor inferred that you have no right to the same free speech that I am privileged to have on this forum. I merely state the fact that you on more than one occasion have taken it upon yourself to answer questions I have addressed to another forum member, and I am curious as to why you feel compelled to do so. I have never done this to you. The only interaction I have ever had with you is when you have done this to me, or directed a response to me. And you want ME to leave YOU alone? That makes no sense at all. But, I see this is causing you great concern, so I won't press the fact you will only answer questions addressed to others, and none addressed to you.
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@amg56- Hello, hope you are well. Don’t waste your breath with this one. He pops in and throws around inflaming words like ’complain’, ’harass', ’intimidate’ and 'threat' when none of these are applicable. Utter nonsense. And I wholeheartedly agree with you. This thread sounds like one long running infomercial.
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@clearthink- I was expecting a response a bit more logical and coherent. But, I understand. You really have nothing in the way of that. So, you strike back with cherrypicking and splicing together a few sentences to my responses and then resort to petty insults. I am sorry you are so flustered that you cannot think coherently. Perhaps a nice, quiet room and a warm glass of milk might help your frame of mind. And I am not offended in the least that you are responding to questions I asked another forum member. I am merely stating an incontrovertible fact. Oh, and if you would be so kind as to point out anywhere I have ever stated you have no right to free speech, that would be great...... |
@perfectpathtech- Hello, there. Actually, I don't believe a single question I just asked you was addressed anywhere on this thread. Nowhere did you explain what micro arcing is as it pertains to audio. Nowhere did you explain how you drew the conclusion that your product will never, ever degrade. Nowhere did you explain how your product differs from similar 'graphene' contact enhancers. Nowhere did you explain why you offer no money back guarantee. Please correct me if I am in error. Now, every single one of my questions was asked regarding claims you have made about your product. I'm not pulling questions out of a hat. I am curious by nature, I am curious about your product given every thesauric accolade in the english language has been attached to it. Again, these are claims you make about your product. I'm trying to SABOTAGE you by asking you about what you claim your product does??! Nonsense. These are not unreasonable questions. If you're going to make claims about your product, how is it sabotage (dribble, no less!) to ask for information backing up your claims? I'm not denigrating your product, I'm not claiming your product doesn't work. I can't possibly know that unless I've tried it for myself. I'm asking you very simple, very straightforward questions regarding claims you yourself have made about your product. And honestly, if you sell one tube or a billion, my bills are still the same.....
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@perfectpathtech- I don’t see how resorting to name calling, especially bizarre name calling (what exactly is a Red Diaper baby?!) is going to in any way enhance the legitimacy of you or your product on this thread. Are you insinuating mapman is a communist infant bent on destroying our free market system?
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@mapman, @amg56- agreed. To say my questions were fully addressed in this thread is simply not true. To accuse me of sabotaging his ad by asking questions directly related to his claims and policy is silly. They are his claims and policy, not mine. And to say removing them and blocking me was his only civil defense is even sillier. He might have tried to actually answer my questions. I would think he would welcome the opportunity. Either way, it does not cast him in a very good light, and he certainly did himself no favors by casting childish aspersions.....Truth is, if there were a money back guarantee, I would be quite tempted to try it, just to see if it remotely lives up to the hype. And amg56, I'm sending positive thoughts your way for a healthy outcome.
Cheers |
@tlong1958- Don't forget 'brain damaged' !
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@mapman- I don't think anyone's ever been called a Red Diaper Baby before. Well, you did warn that graphene is toxic. The expression 'mad as a hatter' comes to mind....
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@wolf_garcia - Geez, sorry wolf. That was you who pointed that out... |
HI perfectpathtech- Still patiently waiting for your answers to my questions about your product claims. Let's just forget the why is there no guarantee question as that is a policy choice and not a claim. I'll ask basically the same questions here to save you time of going back to the other ones.
It is claimed your product eliminates micro arcing. What exactly is micro arcing as it pertains to an audio signal?
You claim in your ad that your product is the world's first hybrid contact enhancer. Can you please explain (without giving away any proprietary secrets) what makes it so?
You claim in your ad that your product will never degrade. Ever. Please explain how you came to that conclusion.
What sets your 'graphene' contact enhancer apart from the less expensive 'graphene' contact enhancers in the market today?
Thank you in advance
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@fleschler- Oh, yeah Fleschler. Ya got me. My brilliant ruse of pretending to be an angry Canadian has been found out. And here I was thinking my plan was foolproof. See, I secretly joined Audiogon under that name years ago and then posted 18 other times in various threads to throw you all off track in anticipation of this very moment when I spring my plan into action. If it wasn’t for your astonishing deductive reasoning I would have gotten away with it. I guess you’re just too smart for me....Why don’t you think a little before you accuse me of anything.
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Hi geoffkait, So, what website can you point me to so I can learn what micro arcing is as it pertains to audio?
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Hi maplegrovemusic. Actually, Caig uses the term arcing, not micro arcing anywhere I can find on their site. I certainly could be mistaken. I don’t think it was debated that the maker of TC coined the term. Regardless, I can’t find an explanation anywhere on the web of what the heck micro arcing is as it pertains to audio. If any fellow member can help me out I would appreciate it. The reason I have repeatedly asked Mr. Mrock what it is, is because he claimed that his product will solve the problem of micro arcing. He also states that he spent all his spare time for the last 15 years studying this ’micro arcing’. I’m extremely curious how one ’studies’ this phenomenon when there seems to be no information about it anywhere. I am also at a loss as to why he refuses to explain what it is since he’s spent a decade and a half learning about it.
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Ah! Thank you for the information...I shall study this. |
amg56- Nice to see you back! Hope you are moving in a forward direction. Sending good vibes your way for your health and the health of your family....
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So, how in any way does that pertain to alleged 'micro' arcing in audio equipment?
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@geoffkait - Evidence??!!! I thought that evidence mumbo jumbo was reserved strictly for the pseudo-skeptics! Do I hear a closet door opening?? |
That WAS my closet door! Darnit, now I've got to go around and round up all these skeletons...
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Hi dishman 442. Simply go to Perfect Path Technologies website.
All their products are there. |
Hi, andera. I used Zu Audio connector cleaner but I would think any metal cleaner/polish will do. Make sure all residual is removed. I swabbed with alcohol after cleaning, then applied TC in a very thin coat. You’re going to love it! |
@jacobsdad2000 ,
I see you're back.
How long do you think before you're banned again?
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Yes, I say so.
Don't see you denying it like you usually do.
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