The business model of releasing an inexplicable tweak and charging enough money for it to make it seem valuable has an established pattern that seems unique to audio. Non existent patent claims (does anybody think it’s difficult to look up patents?) for the remedy of a non existent problem (fuse performance issues that don’t exist, micro-arcing issues nobody knew were issues), and non existent basic technical justification from the manufacturers (ask Ted Denny about the theory behind the development of his Magic $150 Fuses and he’ll simply become unhinged) are all part of this stuff. Get somebody to to rave about it and attribute astonishing sonic improvement to its use (contact enhancer…it more than cleans the contacts, it adds Current Flow Mojo that otherwise isn’t there!) attack critics as tin eared naysayers, and yer off and running! I clean contacts in my rig from time to time (it doesn’t sound better, it simply makes me feel better), but to say something makes contacts more "contacty" because of alleged micro-arcing issues, thus rendering your system more musical should be questioned by anybody who’s not on the Magic Bus already…also, is the goo directional? I tested the SR fuses supplied to me and determined they were a useless sham…hey, I tried…if somebody sends me some magic goo I’ll test that also, if I’m not first burnt up in a flaming blue light of micro-arcing. |
In 1981 or so when I was in a techno pop band in Hawaii, I played rhythm ukulele on a version of "Come Onna My House" we borrowed from Rosemary Clooney, and it was released as a 45rpm single in Japan. Great song…our singer did one side in Japanese and the other in English. Love Rosemary Clooney, and I often play the 45 for people as it's a great drunken dancing song…it has a drum solo (!) that I doubt was on the original version, although I don't remember the original. |
Wesheadly…question the efficacy of certain seemingly "faith based" tweaks at your peril! Even asking simple questions and foolishly expecting rational answers to them can result in being labeled a "troll" or "negative nancy" or maybe even a "Republican," as the Golden Eared Uber-Qualified sophisticates who shamelessly promote certain things are "real serious" magic hat rack and directional fuse wire aficionados with money to burn. $300 contact enhancing goo that takes 80 hours to ultimately work its Complete and Astonishing System Improvement magic (although, to be fair, it seemingly produces some of the life changing magic mojo immediately after applying) should be accepted on faith as, after all, what the heck do YOU know anyway? Just order the stuff, smear it on your wires, and sit back knowing somebody smarter and possibly better looking and clearly more qualified to opine about Sonic Goo Benefits told you to get the damn stuff. At least the proletariat tin eared masses can enjoy statements like, "Brian and I hooked up at the CES in Vegas" for its comedic potential, even if it has zero to do with goo…or everything to do with goo…you can never be certain. |
Politics? A joke about Republicans is politics? Some of my best friends have been Republicans, although certainly not in recent years. Hmmm…deeperthought…I was addressing wesheadly with a warning about engaging relatively thin skinned proponents of magic tweaks in general, as I really don't have any questions about the goo since, clearly, it's value is unquestionable if only as a platform for satire. |
Can I mention Luddites? How about Philistines? Anarchists? Norwegians? Somehow establishing rules for a specific topic to limit questioning to No Negative Nancies or Norberts or Newtonians and establishing some form of Mirth Control seems absolutely political, and there lies a paradox. If I was selected to test and then proceeded to shamelessly promote a product with claims of astonishing sonic benefits, I simply wouldn't be surprised that others may question the efficacy of the product, not to mention my motivation to hustle the item in a forum. It's human nature after all. Is "human" allowed? |
Wow man...Brass screws…who knew? "Nothing comes close" including your contact goo? Hmmm... Although maybe the "disposable income" aspect is the key in the "150 brass screws" scenario. Are they "quantum" screws, and do small ones involve micro-screwing? Total Contact is one of the few (forgive me) "Snake Oil" products that resembles actual snake oil. |
Tommylion, am I supposed to give up my Campaign Against Audio Hyperbole when the preposterous claims keep piling up? No way man…example from an esteemed audio hat rack aficionado: Louder jazz musician background chatter is enhanced by contact goo, the effect of which, once smeared on the contact, causes (I'm assuming here since I have yet to save enough money from my paper route and Amway ponzi scheme to buy this stuff) electrons to simply continue on their way in the cable…or through the fuse…with altered tonal characteristics. Is that about right? |
HIfiman5…Naturally I’ve also used tweaks to some benefit in my rig, but pretty much everything has had some logical (to me anyway) and reasonable justification…for example, I prefer de-coupling speakers from my wood floors, and I use a carefully controlled application of micro-arcing to dampen jazz musician background yammering and out of control classical fortissimos. I also recently dismantled a pencil and combined the graphite with a thimble of carbon scraped from the seat pod in my McLaren, mixed both with Vaseline, and pasted it on Donny McAslin’s forehead for a show I was mixing…his tone took on astonishing magical properties which was surprising since the goo was running into his eyes and he seemed uncomfortable. Hey…you do what you have to do, and I hope tommylion, a clear arbiter of manners, has appreciated this contribution to the conversation as, of course, inflammatory accusations are unsavory unless aimed at skeptics. |
My case is made for me all over this thread, and for that I'm eternally grateful. |
Respectfully (!), Donny McCaslin will be at the Village Vanguard later this month (and so will I) and you can ask him about the forehead experiment. He’s gonna deny it ever happened. Also, "There certainly has been evidence offered here that the product works as advertised." Don’t confuse opinions packed with hyperbole with "evidence." For those who don’t know what that means, I offer: "Hyperbole, derived from a Greek word meaning “over-casting,” is a figure of speech that involves an exaggeration of ideas for the sake of emphasis." If the goo works, it allows a better electrical contact…that’s it…the miraculous transformation of your gear heap from whatever it was to an uber revealing sound reproduction miracle is resulting from better wire contact? The wires remain the same, the gear is the same, the contact points have goo on them...and the rest is hyperbole…although now you know what that means. You’re welcome. |
Trigger warning for those who's insecurities and adorable child-like sensitivity to certain posts send them into rage or a coma: To save some money (although this would take some time) I suggest soldering every single cable contact point, including inside speakers, AC connections including wall sockets and component connections, power supplies, unsoldered or "clipped on" internal wires in everything, tube sockets, blue tooth dongles, and everything else (don't forget the phono cartridge connections)…then there's no expensive goo (although silver or some other "special real good audiophile" solder would help maintain tweaker cred in the face of other's thinking you'd lost your mind) and you should have no issues except mumbling jazz musicians sending sound bites to bounce off your magic hat rack, and possibly some tube swap delays...Get a "special" solder manufacturer to allow you to beta test their product, rave about it on this forum (don't forget to use the word "quantum" someplace), note the price and return policy while claiming no kickbacks from the seller, and let the fun begin. No break-in time, no goo, no problem. |
And I thought a trigger warning would suffice in an effort to shelter the sensitive among us. My little blurbs of dissent (tempered with what perhaps only I find humorous…I try) regarding overselling faith based tweaks will only be encouraged by any attempt to stifle them. I guess that statement requires another trigger warning…Also Fleshler writes: "The audiogon forum moderator has been notified concerning trolls on this and other forums; in particular, Wolf_Garcia." I can only imagine how THAT complaint went, "Moderators, somebody keeps disagreeing with me and it makes me all upset!" Threats now? How tentative (or genuine?) is one's faith in in their opinion that a tweak has legs would feel threatened by my posts? Is there some commercial component at play here? In any case, for those who feel harmed by anything I've said, I suggest you meditate quietly by a Mpingo disc or magic hat rack and repeat quietly, "I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and darn it, people like me." |
The degree that interconnects lose their ability to conduct signal by unplugging them and plugging them back in would be laughably tiny, if it exists at all. Statement of absolutes by Geoffkaitty are often amusing and generally wrong, and although I clean the contacts if I feel like it from time to time (remember "Tweak" contact cleaner? I found what's left of a bottle of that recently having, like pretty much everyone else, forgot about it.) I simply don't feel like things aren't contacting enough, because logic indicates they're fine. This entire issue seems like a problem has been invented where none really existed. Like fuses…when did somebody decide fuses were improveable? Exactly when somebody realized there's gold in them there hills, and a pile of nonsense could be put out there to help dig into the pockets of the gullible. |
Ka-Ching! I'd like a report on sales of this stuff after 4 or 8 weeks as I'm planning to hype a tweak soon to cash in on the "post many paragraphs of hyperbole and SELL SELL SELL" phenomena. It's legal, nobody minds a scam in the name of "More Hifi Hifi," and hey…shameless promotion of anything that claims to make electric current happier is all good for the Faithful, as long as the word "quantum" is included. |
Definition of fantastic
1 a : based on fantasy (see 1fantasy 3) : not real
b : conceived or seemingly conceived by unrestrained fancy
"fantastic new space and nuclear weapons" —Jack Raymond
c : so extreme as to challenge belief : unbelievable
a fantastic industrial complex of steel, coal, machine tools, and other heavy industries —M. S. Handler
; broadly : exceedingly large or great spent fantastic sums on his library
2 : marked by extravagant fantasy or extreme individuality : eccentric fantastic works of art
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Since it’s going to be a long time before my can of Deoxit runs out, I plan to wait patiently to see if the audio community at large embraces the Magic Goo, and consequently wakes up to what is seemingly an epidemic of micro-arching. There’s a reason that "fabulousness" and hyperbole regarding products you didn’t know you needed is generally ignored by all but the "magic tweak faithful" and their agreeable wives, and that’s the fact that regardless of the relentless support of the salespeople involved in hyping these things, the audio geek marketplace overall actually isn’t so gullible. In threads nearly identical to each other, product promoters finding a product priced at a point that is often multiples of the cost of an established and generally accepted thing (Like Litelfuse stuff and Deoxit…both inexpensive and generally accepted as about as good as it gets), market it hard (and cheaply…like on a free forum) with floridly exaggerated subjective claims one dare not dispute (naysayers, negative Nancys, under qualified critics, trolls, left handed calligraphers). There’s the rub, and if Special Hat Racks, aluminum Ju Ju Bee "transducers," and Magic Goo that allows the path of an existing audio signal to be enhanced into something beyond itself ("Micro-arching Causes Brain Damage" news at 11!), do become accepted by the marketplace of perhaps rational listeners and their wives (or reviewed by reviewers not in the tight clutch of the magic enhancement sales fringe), you can count me in! |
Note that for every 10 bottles of this stuff, $3000 goes somewhere, with a forum based promotional campaign unique to only a few products I know of: SR fuses, both black and blue (and maybe one other red version can be included), and this Magic Goo campaign. Nearly identical hyperbole utilized in each case, specifics of pricing included, and a host of clearly insecure supporters who bristle at being criticized for any aspect of this hype-athon, and keep a threat to "report you to Audiogon" on the table if you dare question their claims in a manner they don't approve of. If this tweak works to any degree close to what has been claimed, that's fine, and the market will eventually decide whether to support it…but a pattern has been established that I feel sullies the entire critical process if not the spirit of this forum, and casts doubt on the motivation of many overenthusiastic promotors, early beta testers, and unhinged husbands actively praising a simple contact enhancer…that costs 300 bucks. Note that a 25ML little bottle of Deoxit "Power Booster" claiming similar sonic results costs around 20 bucks. I do know THAT stuff works. |
Deoxit has a proven track record and basically claims to do exactly what Magic Goo does, albeit at much lower cost with instant results (I have no idea how long I've been using it as the pesky stuff lasts forever). That is the definition of "apples to apples" except it’s not a fair comparison as one item is expensive esoterica promoted with hyperbole and exaggeration, and the other is a successful and well regarded established product. Maybe "apples to other apples" is a more apt way to put it. I hope the Deoxit dudes put the term "micro-arching remedy" on their little cans someplace as that would be pretty funny. Maybe the goo will catch on, but more likely at its current cost it will be regarded as too expensive, messy, and unnecessarily gooey, and wind up in a dusty pile with unsold "special" fuses, ebony hockey pucks, and aluminum ju ju bees. I personally think micro-arching adds depth and character to the little signals wandering through my rig…plus that comforting sputter and flash of the tentative connection. |
I've noticed it's difficult to find much information about micro-arcing in audio cables. This could be due to my lame searching skills, but if anybody has suggestions as to where to look for that information I'd appreciate it. Thanks. |
I think that it's clear that micro-arcing is a danger to the audio world to such a degree that we need to find out everything we can about it. |
I just spent some time looking up toxicity issues with graphene. I suggest others do the same before pasting your rig. I wondered, when you "paste" tube sockets, where does the dust from cured TC go when you change a tube? What is the hardening compound of this product? Has the toxicity of this product been tested by an outside agent, and has its safety been approved? What if my toddler grandson (Clem…we'll call him Clem) drinks a bottle of it? Although the designer should be awarded some sort of humanitarian prize for warning about the previously underreported effects of "micro-arcing" on the auditory receptors of music fans, just looking at the 2013 Brown University study of the possible issues of graphene getting into Clem's tiny lungs is somewhat off-putting. Don't say nobody warned you. |
I was prompted to look up the health effects of graphene by a research scientist friend who is not an audio geek, and simply wrote about what I found. Tim states it's NOT a graphene product (except that it contains graphene), and it's not dangerous except to him at a certain point in the manufacturing process. So it's only possibly dangerous. Comforting. |
Teleportation tweak? Now we're talkin'! |
Where the "$150 fuser" likely goes next is off to the latest bit of hyperbole fueled silliness launched by some "magic tweak" purveyor bent on discovering how much people will pay for something like a fuse. Note that fuses don't and can't improve the tone of anything because they're stuck within the parameters of being, simply, a fuse.
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I think we’re close to the $500 fuse, which should arrive in a wooden box with a registration number...gets me thinking...hmm...hey mapman...wanna make some bucks? Let’s see...we need paint, something we claim is graphene (we don’t need to expose ourselves to risking the carcinogenic issues of "actual" graphene), little wooden boxes with velvet liners and metal labels with the registration number, and the easy part, get oregonpapa or somebody to supply a hyperbole stuffed rave about them at length right here so no need for an advertising plan. That saves some serious bucks right there. I can see it now..."The Mapman/Garcia Ultra Special Superfuse," or MAGUSS maybe...where are my beta testers? I'm looking to rent a Quantum Tesla Zapper as I write this...Let’s go! |
OK...I guess this means I'm on my own, so no Bentley for mapman...I started on the prototype by gluing some pics of graphite (car magazine McLaren seat pod closeups) on a Littelfuse. I've decided these should also be "music specific"...certain ones best suited to Mumblecore, others to provide utter silence and a low noise floor (and ceiling...nobody talks about the Noise Ceiling) when the components are turned off, others tuned for Benjamin Britton fans...those are 50 bucks more, and note that the break-in time is slightly longer than the 30 day free return policy as, hey man, I ain't no fool. Guaranteed to lower the noise floor by at least 3 meters, the noise ceiling by exactly 32 feet, and to be bi-directional in keeping with current social trends. |
This thread is an obvious commercial enterprise filled with the same hyperbole and sales zeal as the SR red and black fuse threads. It's "Beta testers to sales generators," and hey...Mrock gets 3 grand for every 10 bottles of this stuff he moves so he SHOULD share the profit with his athletic supporters as he utterly owes 'em...now back to my $500 fuses...if I can move 20 of these a week... |
Wait a minute...I think I should get credit for first pointing out the "graphene is carcinogenic" facts (maybe I’m not the first...still...), and for my endless harping on the hyperbolic sales push issue...AMG is hijacking my angry tweaker base! |
Many critics of this thread are absolutely NOT "knocking the product," (except for the simple fact that graphene is extremely carcinogenic...be on the lookout for my new asbestos based contact enhancement products, as it’s no biggie, right?) they’re simply concerned with the pushy sales force: "For those who haven’t taken the leap ... you should ASAP"...like that...essentially positioning the hype to propose the not so subtle assumption that everyone who actually cares about being a "real audiophile" should be very afraid of dreaded Micro Arcing, and shouldn’t hesitate to send 300 bucks off for contact enhancement goo that takes 8 weeks to really come alive...that this may not appeal to some might seem like heresy to the promoters, but the credibility of any new product isn’t generally enhanced by a pushy "insider beta testers" sales force and the inappropriate use of a discussion forum for a hard sell.
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This is a forum thread designed to sell TC and enjoy the responses among those who've bought it. If you don't think you're likely to help TC make piles of audiobucks from this stuff, and aren't supporting the hyperbole festooned fanboy and sales force posts because perhaps, not unlike myself, you don't wish to "treat" your already fine sounding system with a mysterious goo that takes 8 weeks to"settle in," (I assume that if you move an interconnect or unplug something you must wait an unfortunate 8 more weeks for audio nirvana to return after re-applying the goo), you are obviously risking the ire of the believers. In other words, no goo for you! A system with clean modern cables and connectors can reproduce astonishingly fine sounding music without the mess and expense of magic 8 week goo in spite of any campaign claiming otherwise. |
This thread has descended into a somewhat ridiculous and sort of gonzo weirdness, and further insures I will absolutely never support this stuff...playing the 94 year old blind mom card is simply bad taste and wreaks of desperation as did the "come to Vermont and l’ll bet you 500 bucks" thing. People seem willing to go to any length to push a product...amazing, and kind of sad. |
Other than noting the carcinogenic properties of the graphene in TC, I've simply taken to task the lack of any ethical boundaries regarding the promotion of TC in a discussion forum, and noted that I'm clearly just not interested in the product as it's expensive, carcinogenic, and something I feel I don't need. People who have spent 300 bucks on it state it's "fabulous" using the hyperbole typical of this sort of magic audio panacea, and if others need to believe these claims I simply don't care as my ears are used to the din of micro arcing. So now old Tim is threatening me with libel? Nice try, and I utterly welcome such a claim as any third party looking at this thread would likely be astonished at the hard sell and marketing here that goes far beyond typical audio conversation. Hey, I might look into the licensing, regulation, postal or shipping regulations, and consumer protection laws (after all, it's carcinogenic!) that may apply to selling TC in your state. Could be fun! Keep your personal threats to yourself Tim, as you're only further damaging your own credibility with unhinged and irrelevant comments. |
Look up graphene and you can see piles of studies and lab results including very disturbing carcinogenic properties...you're welcome. And to be specific regarding "not caring" about the fanboy responses, it was clearly said in the context of my opposition to using a discussion forum for an inappropriate hard sell opportunity led by you, Frank. Tim gets 3 grand for every 10 packs of TC he sells so I imagine he eats...I just hope he washes his hands first. |
Using a forum as your "telemarketing outlet" is sleazy and wrong, and that's my main beef. As to Fleshler's odd comment, I've never left the forum for any particular reason except maybe for an internet free vacation. Note again that if you think about what connections in an audio component pile are doing, and if the signal is getting through to you somehow due to gold connectors or any other reliable plugs or spades or whatever, you likely don't need to enrich some paranoid and tasteless stranger by spending 300 bucks on this stuff. Micro arcing is something that nobody should worry about, and outside of this thread I doubt anybody does...the hyperbole oversells this product for obvious reasons, the salesmen who rave about it are clearly thin skinned and paranoid about the possibility the money stream could be slowed somehow, and deeply concerned that perhaps some individuals could criticize their motives and "fabulous" reporting, and on it goes. I don't care if personal attacks are aimed at me as I can take it, but if TC is ever to be taken seriously I suggest Tim Mrock simply man up and do real marketing instead of relying on fanboys and magic tweak addicts...and let the forums be for discussion. |
Regarding Mister Fleshler..."Jetter-to answer why Wolf is a troll, he has personally attacked me in this forum, denigrating my name, my heritage and I think my religion." I "think" my religion? I get that many around here are wound pretty tight, but accusing me of denigrating your religion or heritage is ridiculous, as I know of no religion you adhere to except the religion of "follower of expensive left field tweaks." You also have mentioned a few times that you consider yourself to be wealthy, which makes me think, who says that? More than once...man...in any case my picking on your name was simply because you came out of nowhere to join the infomercial that is this thread and I thought your name was sort of funny...I now know you’re not funny in any way. Sorry to have rumpled your feathers, and please continue to personally attack me as a troll or whatever you feel you need to do as hey, perhaps it’s therapeutic for you as it often is for the intensely insecure among us.
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On another note, I might take a break from this infomercial as my posts seem to allow the rabid and often unhinged TC hyperbole infused fanboys and sales force more opportunities to rant the promotional manifesto. I think TC will be ignored by the marketplace and will settle into oblivion with the vast wasteland of other unnecessary audio tweaks...and besides, I think Tim owes me 500 bucks. |
Pointing out that Audiogon has a policy against a commercial sales pitch isn't trolling, or negative necessarily...it's just a fact. Look it up. Also, Frank has said he's a beta tester for both the TC stuff and the mats. In any case, goodbye mat thread! |
OK Fleschler...I'm not going to "report you" for the personal attacks and name calling (sound familiar?) as I still think that's a cowardly move utilized by the insecure among us, but will simply once again point out that sleazy sales infomercials have no place in a discussion forum. A new thread (like t_ramey mentioned) simply discussing (hopefully without hyperbole, but that might be wishful thinking) the E mat seems more like what this place should be about. Many who obviously profit from these sales threads might not like it, and have been taking advantage of the "free" advertising opportunities here for years...it remains as offensive as robocalls or lame product placement stalking programs...resist! |
The audio product name "Perfect Path" is a trademark registered by Belden. I wonder if the "cease and desist" letter is in the mail. |
I was trying to help poor Geoffkait who seemed upset by a silly religious reference (because I hate it when he gets upset), and I didn't actually ask any questions. Also, there's nothing crass or bigoted about questioning what I regard as mythological nonsense when it's dropped like a Cleveland Steamer in an audio discussion, regardless of how invested you may be in the myth. |
True colors? I’m an atheist who thinks ALL religion is silly and utterly dangerous...I own that all day. Work on your reading comprehension there tommy. Start with looking up "irony." |
That anybody follows religions is a head scratcher, but as long as they don't impose that stuff on others I simply don't care...you like Leprechauns? Than enjoy yer Leprechauns. My making a point about Atheism or Secular Humanists or standing against religions generally isn't hateful or vile or anything other than a response to an ill advised Jesus post that could be seen as offensive to Jews, Muslims, and athiests. That religions are generally dangerous requires only looking around the planet and seeing that the most religious places are generally the poorest and most violent. If you're religious, simply keep it to yourself and out of chat forums not related to mythology regarding deities, or somebody not sharing that view may upset your apple cart. Or do the Christian thing and turn the other cheek...love man...it's about love...right? Mythology regarding tweaks is normal. |
Grannyring...I haven't "bought into" thinking that religious mythology and superstition are silly, it's simply that to anybody over the age of 5 or so they should be considered as such...If you think that sort of thinking is lazy you're weirdly misguided, and this entire pile of time wasting dialog was simply a response to an utterly inappropriate diety post that clearly does not belong in this forum. Believe what you wish, but please keep it out of audio mythology, as that's a different subject altogether. |
I have no dilemma, and I have a right to object to public displays of nonsense and commercial shilling, and I also have a right to respond to posts directed at me...you may want to try to understand what "public forum" means. |
If you define "getting along with others" as accepting nonsense as fact and following that line by joining a flock of subservient sheep incapable of critical thinking, you're the problem. Shill away papa, and keep hoping your misplaced commercial enterprises don't engender any criticism, however unlikely that might be. |
