I’ve been asked to evaluate/beta test some new fuses that will be coming out soon. I should have them as soon as this coming Saturday.
At this point:
1. I cannot reveal the name of the manufacturer of the fuses. 2. I do not know what the retail price will be. 3. I do not know what the name of the fuse will be.
For comparison purposes, I have a full complement of SR Orange fuses that can be used throughout the system. I have one QSA Yellow fuse now being used in my ARC-PH8 phono stage, with another one to arrive soon to be used in my ARC REF-75se.
I’ll be comparing the SR Orange fuses, and the QSA fuses, with the new prototype fuses. I’ll also be using the ears of three of my well-seasoned audiophile friends, as well as my own to make the evaluations. These guys are all truth-tellers that I have full confidence in.
According to the manufacturer, these new fuses are real game-changers, so stay tuned.
@tsushima1 : So what you were saying is BS. You are actually stating that fuses that do not meet BS1363 invalidate an insurance claim, if the appliance were fitted therewith.
How do you know how many standard and so called audiophile fuses meet or exceed these specifications? There is so much Chinese junk in the supply chain that if you actually tested them against spec I reckon the audiophile ones might fare pretty well.
It’s a little ironic. The mantra used to be that the improvment in sound from the addition of audiophile fuses was the equivalent of buying a new component.
By the time people are on their third or fourth round of buying new fuses they will probably have spent as much or more than the cost of some new components.
In the UK All fire insurance assessors are trained to investigate any and all self or badly implemented alterations to a house electrical system no matter how small that do not comply to building regulations or equipment manufacturers specifications. If an investigator reports that a fire or electrical incident occurred in the following scenario an insurance company will invariably invalidate your claim for Your Amp Your fire damaged room or your House.
Replacing a BS 1362 regulated fuse with anything else Audiophile or otherwise is just the same as soldering a section of wire into your equipments mains inlet
BS please provide hard data to substantiate your outlandish claim. The whole concept of an insurance investigator delving into the impact of so called audiophile fuses on the profitability of their company beggars belief.
I am good friends with a senior fire investigator for several of the major insurance companies here in the UK... I know precisely what I am talking about and the veracity of it.
@tsushima1 you are really scraping the bottom of the barrel. Replacing a fuse with an identically rated fuse, whether it is standard or so called audiophile is hardly a capital offence.
George, you finally got me: what we retailers actually do is re-colour them then wipe the ends with Caig Gold. Works every time !!!!! Unfortunately the Côte d’Azure has become so tiresome of late.,,,,,
millercarbon For anyone with an open mind willing to learn let me just say Frank is the real deal.
You’ve got to be kidding, more like the new real deal geoffkiat
Members here wondering who geoffkiat is, well lets just say his views on audio match. Just look at his avatar and you’ll know one of them is the founding father of audio voodoo https://forum.audiogon.com/users/geoffkait
millercarbon For anyone with an open mind willing to learn let me just say Frank is the real deal.
You’ve got to be kidding, more like the new real deal geoffkiat
Members here wondering who geoffkiat is, well lets just say his views on audio match. Just look at his avatar and you’ll know one of them is the founding father of audio voodoo https://forum.audiogon.com/users/geoffkait
The price of admission is one bottle of Glenfarclas Single Malt, my favorite. :-)
What age?
But to be honest I will be happy if you will just leave your damn cell phone at the door. ;) Seriously though, Finished Rye.
Why, because the cell phone RF is rectified? Rye? that 'splains a lot!!! Bleccchh!
For 50+years, "By what mechanism?" - "I don't know, it just works." doesn't cut it. The one constant is that HiFi systems are never constant. The probability that endless tweaks are all positive is risible.
Ditto for any one in Florence who wants to hear an absolutely quiet background and decay to zero or when the mastering engineer hit the cutoff.
^^^ Thanks, MC. I have given an open invitation to anyone who wants to hear what I have going at my place. Even Georgiehifi if he can find his way out of that police state he lives in.
Looking forward to your assessment of the Violet fuse.
Yes I have Violet and Yellow coming. Stones this week, fuses hopefully next week. Then if Frank will be kind enough to hook me up I will love to compare with these new ones.....!
For anyone with an open mind willing to learn let me just say Frank is the real deal. It was Frank who was early on the scene with PPT, one of the first with The Gate, and probably the best at recognizing and describing the sound. When I started picking up on it Frank was the one to give me the idea of trying the PPT Mats on speaker cables and around speakers.
Look at my system. The tubes around cables, the black stuff wrapped around caps, the way my whole crossover is built on a Mat and more, I took it next level but those ideas all came from Frank.
The nature of the improvement is to my ears plain as day. It is however different enough that some otherwise decent listeners are oblivious. This in my book is reason to start a discussion about how it is we learn to hear completely new and novel sounds. Which I did. Several times.
Seems the haters and doubters and stuck in the past unwilling to learners are more outspoken here than those of us willing to do the hard work of expanding the envelope. Frank is one, for sure he is doing the hard work.
I should at this point probably say anyone wants to hear what I'm talking about come to Redmond and bring a bottle of Angel's Envy Finished Rye. But to be honest I will be happy if you will just leave your damn cell phone at the door. ;) Seriously though, Finished Rye. It'll be a fair trade, trust me.
"It would nice if oregonpapa had the Red/Black fuses (from QSA) to compare to"
I believe that the next one up in the line is the Violet fuse. I'd love to try it, but at $710 it is beyond me. I know of one A'gon member who has one on order, so maybe he will chime in on this thread. I hope so, anyway.
The provider is Southern California Edison. The AC power here is extremely dirty and affects sound quality in a very significant negative way. This is why I and many other A’gon members have concentrated on cleaning up that power as it enters our listening environments. This is what the Perfect Path Technologies products were all about. Until you have used these products, you have no idea of what your system is capable of. When using these products, the system becomes a much more reliable source for testing other products such as was done with the fuses that are the topic of this thread.
And by the way jeales, I was the person who introduced PPT products to this venue ... and I took a lot of heat from many of the same actors that always try to demean others on this forum. Do some research on past threads that deal with PPT products. It is interesting reading.
The final proof is in the listening, jeales, and if you’re ever in the neighborhood, you are welcome to come over for a listening session. The low distortion and quiet background that the music and performers emanate from is really quite something, mainly due to cleaning up the AC power. The price of admission is one bottle of Glenfarclas Single Malt, my favorite. :-)
Everything described is explainable from first principles, i.e. HiFi sound, as is all sound, is a constantly changing parameter due to component temperature [voice coil deltas affect crossover points, amp temperatures affect bias], room temperature & pressure affect transmission, etc. It is well nigh impossible to absolutely replicate a listening environment.
Not sure what power provider you have, but our line voltage in Florence has been a bit flaky for the past week or so, moving from 121 to 124 whereas normally a rock steady 123.
@bdp24 : call me when you break out the Islay single malts [always on offer here]. Glenlivet 18 will do. IMO, Blue is a joke.
I think I described what I have heard pretty well in my above posts. So, you have my input, and that of others as well. Not too much to understand, is there?
Oh, crapola, you got me on those "kickbacks." You wouldn't believe the amount of money I have pouring into my bank account at this point. Hey man, I'm getting plane fare for a trip to Tahiti today. Think of it George ... dancing girls, Mai Tais galore, white sandy beaches, and azure blue waters ... all while contemplating the joy of reporting yet another one of your insulting, personal attacking posts to the Mods.
rsf507 You mean you need another person to tell you what to hear? If you don’t know then this is all a joke!
Not just a joke, but a very well organised con on the gullible.
rsf507 And if this is how you listen to music how do you enjoy music?
He doesn’t, it’s all about the kick backs in whatever form they come in.
Yet he did say,
oregonpapa It killed the SR Orange fuse in every respect. There was a BIG improvement in overall clarity from top to bottom. And the midrange ... the midrange ... Zowie!
And he still needs Mr Golden Ears to tell him!! Common even the gullible weren’t born yesterday, hopefully.
I have a collection of investment quality Reds, Blacks, and Blues I would sell you at a good price if you’re interested.
Really now your going to sell something you got for .
@oregonpapa don't understand "I’ll know more when my third regular audiophile friend comes up next Sunday". You mean you need another person to tell you what to hear? If you don't know then this is all a joke! And if this is how you listen to music how do you enjoy music? Just relax and forget about these small nuances do they really matter?
As I said in my above post ... the prototype is more tube-like in the midrange in a very good way than the QSA Yellow fuse. I’m not knocking the QSA Yellow fuse. It’s just a matter of preference. Midrange ... human voice, cello, violas, tenor sax ... etc.
Keep in mind that all of this could be system-dependent. Plus, there is probably more break-in time needed to fully evaluate the fuses. I’ll know more when my third regular audiophile friend comes up next Sunday.
As a side note, this evening I was playing the Bud Shank flute & Koto album. I’ve never heard it sound like this before. Amazing.
Frank - I have 4 yellows in my system that replaced SR orange. I am trying to hear what you hear. Can you please explain Midrange. Sorry for such a simple question but it will help in my listening efforts.
One person advocating fuses here has > 30% of their system budget tied up in cables. I can’t take this persons views on anything seriously knowing that.
+1 and some!!
cerberus79 A few months ago I purchased a used pair of speakers from another Agon member. To my surprise all the fuses were Orange fuses. I listened to them and then to satisfy my curiosity I replaced them with ordinary buss fuses and could not hear a difference. I did this test with a bunch of friends and neither I or them could hear a difference. Kind of just says it all doesn’t it?
To those non technical thinking of purchasing these $$$ fuses. Just save your $150+ and do this instead.
A fuse: 1: two end caps 2: short piece of fuse wire connecting the two end caps through a glass tube (that’s all she wrote).
To those "non technical" members that are interested in "maybe" wasting their money, do not listen to the non-technical, listen to the technicians of this industry that design the audio products you have and listen to. AND YOU WON"T SEE THEM ON THREADS LIKE THIS AGREEING WITH WHAT SAID HERE ABOUT THE SOUND IMPROVMENT DETAILS AND AC FUSE PLACEMENT DIRECTION, EVER!!! Just clean and tighten your fuse holder and re-new your fuse (if old) with a good quality 50cent Bussman, Littlefuse or similar.As with "many switch-on surges" they do deteriorate, bend, stretch and get crusty with electrolysis formations on their fusible wire elements before they give out, as these pics show of a fuse wire element ageing over time show. https://ibb.co/9NbTwqK (even the $$$ boutique ones will age just as much also)
cerberus79 A few months ago I purchased a used pair of speakers from another Agon member. To my surprise all the fuses were Orange fuses. I listened to them and then to satisfy my curiosity I replaced them with ordinary buss fuses and could not hear a difference. I did this test with a bunch of friends and neither I or them could hear a difference. Kind of just says it all doesn't it?
To those non technical thinking of purchasing these $$$ fuses. Just save your $150+ and do this instead.
A fuse: 1: two end caps 2: short piece of fuse wire connecting the two end caps through a glass tube (that’s all she wrote).
To those "non technical" members that are interested in "maybe" wasting their money, do not listen to the non-technical, listen to the technicians of this industry that design the audio products you have and listen to. AND YOU WON"T SEE THEM ON THREADS LIKE THIS AGREEING WITH WHAT SAID HERE ABOUT THE SOUND IMPROVMENT DETAILS AND AC FUSE PLACEMENT DIRECTION, EVER!!! Just clean and tighten your fuse holder and re-new your fuse (if old) with a good quality 50cent Bussman, Littlefuse or similar.As with "many switch-on surges" they do deteriorate, bend, stretch and get crusty with electrolysis formations on their fusible wire elements before they give out, as these pics show of a fuse wire element ageing over time show. https://ibb.co/9NbTwqK (even the $$$ boutique ones will age just as much also)
Well, Mister Golden Ears and I had an interesting two-hour listening session this morning. We started out with the full complement of the prototype fuses. I thought the sound was spectacular. Then we changed out the prototypes for two QSA Yellow fuses, one in the line stage and one in the amp. We did an a/b/a/b/a comparison. The sound was also spectacular, however different. We both heard the same things.
We played both CDs and LPs.
The prototypes, in my opinion, are overall a better musical experience, in that the tonal balance is more accurate, and instruments actually sound more real. There is a more realistic sound space as well.
Mister Golden Ears thought the prototypes sounded a bit "dryer" than the QSA Yellow fuse. I didn’t hear that at all. I heard more separation of instruments, more individual voices fleshed out in choir music and a little more tube-like lushness throughout. I like that.
This is not meant to take anything away from the QSA Yellow fuses at all. They have their strong points.
My final analysis from today is this ... If you like the sound of neutral tube electronics like modern ARC gear, I believe you are going to like the prototype fuses better than the QSA Yellow fuses. If you are a Krell kind of a guy who likes modern solid-state gear, then maybe the QSA fuses would be more your cup of tea. That’s not my preference, so I will be sticking with the prototype fuses.
Either way, the SR Orange fuses that were in the system before all of this started, will be relegated to the spare fuse box. The prototype fuses walk all over the SR Orange fuses.
I have another friend coming up next Sunday, I believe. He’s using a QSA Yellow fuse in his system. He tells me that he is experiencing the same midrange anomaly that I am. I will be doing a/b/a/b/a experiments with him as I did with Mister Golden Ears this morning.
Also, as a side note, I received a PM from another A’gon member who is using the QSA Yellow fuse, and he is having the same midrange experience as the two of us.
JW Blue, Jim? Now yer talkin’! I bypassed the fuse (in fact the entire fuse block, as well as the horrid speaker connectors, installing Cardas binding posts in their place) in my Magneplanar Tympani T-IVa.
Roger’s views on audiophile parts is often over-simplified. He DID consider electrolytic caps unsuitable for some applications, fine for others. It’s all in his AudioCircle writings. And he was making speaker cables at the end, and not just to make money.
It was the use use of fuses that were not of "high breaking capacity" design that he warned against in his amps, and in fact as part of any amp to which such a fuse was connected to output tubes. He received back at his shop an RM-9 that was destroyed by a full compliment of Hi-Fi Tuning fuses which did not preform their primary task: protecting the circuitry they were connected to. 12 non-performing fuses which cost as much as the amp itself? Ridiculous!
Agree on the warranty claims and how that would cause one they have a certain view on boutique fuses. I am actually making the same point.
I have no idea what you are referring to in terms of the actual fuse value in the amplifier in question. Don’t know if it was a lower rated fuse, fuse rated in spec, fuse rated over spec?
In the end, it really doesn’t matter because the fuse did not act as the designer wanted and caused some major issues. I would stay away from those particular fuses from that manufacturer in that amp 😁
of course some skin in the game warranty claims might had something to do with his disdain…perhaps you can clarify RM’s question about the suitability ( compliance to a specification ) of that particular fuse for use in a high voltage tube circuit…. ?
You must have a verified phone number and physical address in order to post in the Audiogon Forums. Please return to Audiogon.com and complete this step. If you have any questions please contact Support.
