New Class D amplifiers

Technics was said to have plans for a line of GaN-based products, of wich the integrated was the first out. Is anybody aware of plans/timeline for any power amp to be available? I wonder about their price-point given the integrated is ~ $2800.

I have a Purifi amp from Buckeye Amps that sounds awesome 

I am using an LSA Warp 1 from Underwood. Power beyond its 150 WPC, great sound, perfect size. I love it. 

@orchardaudio tou·ché 

Does anyone actually think anyone will be using the same class d amp in 20-30 years? With the way the technology is still evolving, I find that bordering on pure fantasy. I see no reason why having something that is easily repaired (what can be easier than swapping out a module?) or updated should add significantly to the price.

@kuribo The flip side of what you're saying is that no care should be taken to make the amp easy to service and update??

Since you are not a manufacturer you won't be familiar with the idea that a customer might contact you looking for the 'last amplifier I will ever have to buy'. I've experienced that many times and I'm sure other manufacturers have too. Believe it or not, a certain portion of the market appreciates a quality build that doesn't look like a denizen only suitable in a mancave. Also, we have found that the ability to update and reactivate the warranty of any of our older products has the effect of increasing their resale value on the used market so it natural to have that same ethos apply to any newer products we make.

Amplifiers might change, but they will always need a power supply. So being able to update the amplifier with an improved module might not make sense to you, but it makes plenty of sense to our customers. 

The flip side of what you’re saying is that no care should be taken to make the amp easy to service and update??

Is it really a binary choice? What I am saying is making an amp easy to service and update should be part of it’s design and doesn’t need to be an expensive operation to perform. How hard is it to remove a few screws, unattach a few wires, and swap a module? I don’t see this as a problem with just about any other class d amp I have seen. It’s a feature built in to all decent amps, not something special or unique as far as I can see with your products.

Believe it or not, a certain portion of the market appreciates a quality build that doesn’t look like a denizen only suitable in a mancave.

Again, is it really a binary choice? Attractive design is in the eyes of the beholder but I see plenty of products on the market with nice looking cases for a fraction of what your product costs, and they are well made as well. There are some European class d amps that are very stylish for $2000-$2500 as I recall. Hardly in radio shack project cases. Again, a bit of a red herring.

As for a "forever amp", I would suspect that is a very small, and probably very old, segment of the market. A greater segment of the market is always looking for the next be all end all. Class d has evolved greatly in the last 20 years and no doubt will continue to do so. All one needs to do is to take a scan of the audio forums to see that people are always looking for the next big thing.

Amplifiers might change, but they will always need a power supply. So being able to update the amplifier with an improved module might not make sense to you, but it makes plenty of sense to our customers.

Huh? I don’t recall saying an amp doesn’t need a power supply- I simply mentioned that linear supplies in this day and age are rather archaic. I specifically said that a module swap was all most class d amps need to be repaired or upgrades, nothing innovative there.

@milpai

Your baseless speculation regarding my motives, interests, financial situation, and other off topic concerns of yours add nothing to this discussion. You appear to have some personal issues you need to work out. Come back when you have something relevant to add.

In the meantime, recognize that this is a forum for the exchange of ideas and opinions. Opinions differ. We are all free to express our ideas and opinions, as long as they are respectful and on topic. Your personal attacks reflect your difficulty dealing with opinions that don't align with your own. Take a deep breath and either deal with it or find some other, more constructive, outlet for your aggression.

@kuribo 

If you want to provide opinions and want others to read them, then be prepared to read others opinions too. My opinion, based on your attacks on Atmasphere and the GaN1 discussions, is that you are creating noise.  Have you used/auditioned a GaN Vs Purifi amlpifier side-by-side? It is easy to see a person's posts here and in all Class D discussions you do the same thing. Reminds me of a certain guy from down under who constantly used to oppose Class D. In your case, you feel Purifi is the only amplification that manufacturers must stick to and all other Class D are crap.

Your personal attacks reflect your difficulty dealing with opinions that don't align with your own.

I don't have any opinions on Class D. I do go through the forums and discussions to understand more on this type of amplification. I am not leaning toward either Purifi or GaN.

Of course, you can have your own opinion. But strange that you don't remember your own word from 09/22/2022 09:56PM, and keep hammering on the same thing over and over again.

Sadly, there are many small minded people who can't accept that their opinions on the matter are unimportant to a great many.

@milpai 

you feel Purifi is the only amplification that manufacturers must stick to and all other Class D are crap.

I have never said such a thing. That is simply your distorted interpretation. There are many well designed, well performing class d amps at great prices. I have taken issue with products that, in my opinion, offer less performance at far greater price, than class d amps available from numerous other sources. I believe I have mentioned Orchard Audio, as well as those sold by  many manufacturers with Hypex or Purifi modules, as amps that provide state of the art performance at very reasonable prices. They represent outstanding value.

If you wish to debate the veracity of my statements, or wish to argue the performance/value of the amps I have mentioned, by all means, feel free. Your previous comments have mostly consisted of personal attacks and off topic speculation, and have been rightly removed. Stick to the topic at hand and leave out the aggressive frustration if you wish to have an adult discussion.

Is it really a binary choice? What I am saying is making an amp easy to service and update should be part of it’s design and doesn’t need to be an expensive operation to perform. How hard is it to remove a few screws, unattach a few wires, and swap a module?

@kuribo 

😀 Apparently you've not been on the service side of the industry to see how things are done. I agree, what you say above is true, but sadly often is not the case in practice. Customers are also wanting to know that someone stands behind their purchase, and that sadly too is lacking with a lot of inexpensive options.

Huh? I don’t recall saying an amp doesn’t need a power supply- I simply mentioned that linear supplies in this day and age are rather archaic. I specifically said that a module swap was all most class d amps need to be repaired or upgrades, nothing innovative there.

Nor did I say that you had... I was just pointing out that all amps need a supply- that's not going to change. WRT SMPSs, we found that if you really want to get the most out of any module, the supply should be designed for the application. When you do that, all of a sudden the use of a conventional supply is easier and less expensive.

Again, is it really a binary choice?

No, nor did I say it was. What you don't seem to get, despite this being told to you a number of times when you've chosen to troll threads like this, is you've failed to identify the market. For example, you don't seem to understand who our competition is. From the way you consistently single us out, its pretty clear that this has nothing to do with price since there are so many more class D products that are more expensive.  For some reason, this seems personal for you for reasons unclear to me.

I think there are a lot of people that expect their equipment to last 20, 30 or more years. I have Rogers LS3/5A, Series 20 M22(Pioneer) from the 70's,  Acoustat 3 and Linn Sondek LP12 from the early 80's, Sound Dynamics 300TI from the 2000's. All work great.

Look at people using original Quads, Altec A7 VOT, Western Electric and many other brands. Parents taught me it was cheaper to buy good stuff. Hope my Orchard Audio Starkrimson Stereo Ultra and PSAudio S300 last many years. Just because something better comes out years later doesn't mean, older equipment quit being enjoyable. 

Thanks,

Aldnorab 

I have taken issue with products that, in my opinion, offer less performance at far greater price, than class d amps available from numerous other sources. 

You have yet not responded to my question. Have you done a comparison with a Purifi amp vs Atmosphere GaN. On what basis do you find GaN lacking? I am trying to understand that. Because, I also have to understand which tech I should go with, if at some point I want to decide to go Class D route. So hopefully you will have something for me to look into. 

BTW, that distorted interpretation came probably because you did not come across as trying to learn or ask. You sounded more like confronting. And your past posts have all been negative about GaN. So don't blame me for the messages you are sending. A few posts above another poster also hinted the same. Guess you didn't catch that.

Customers are also wanting to know that someone stands behind their purchase, and that sadly too is lacking with a lot of inexpensive options.

I haven’t heard or read of any issues with customer service from the many US and European sellers of class d amps using Hypex or Purifi modules. Do you have actual evidence of poor customer service you can share from any of the main stream amp providers?

From the way you consistently single us out, its pretty clear that this has nothing to do with price since there are so many more class D products that are more expensive. For some reason, this seems personal for you for reasons unclear to me.

I didn’t bring up your product here, you entered the discussion after I commented that there is no need to spend $5000 on a class d amp when there are better performing amps available for a fraction of that. I didn’t mention your amp by name. You jumped in and offered a justification for the high price.

And no, I have not singled you out, I made a general comment. I would respond the same way to any product here that has a performance not scaled to the price. I appreciate substance over form.

What you don’t seem to get, despite this being told to you a number of times when you’ve chosen to troll threads like this, is you’ve failed to identify the market. For example, you don’t seem to understand who our competition is.

I have chosen to troll this thread? No, I made a general statement that you decided to challenge. I simply responded.

But, ok, I have failed to identify the market you are attempting to serve. Let’s say then it must be that segment of the market where high prices are a feature, not a bug, and where "value" isn’t a consideration. That’s fine and honest. No need to justify your price here, I get it.

 

@kuribo, hope you answer my question directly this time without dodging it.

@milpai

If you want dialog, be respectful.

On what basis do you find GaN lacking?

It’s all in the implementation. Current GaN devices are being touted as some magic improvement when in fact a class d amp is much more about how it is designed and built and less about the fets. Current state of the art class d uses regular fets, not GaN, and the reason is found in Bruno Putzey’s interview wherein he discusses this very topic. Google it.

Also, many of the GaN amps out now are using old class d amp designs which have no post filter feedback, resulting in load dependent frequency response. No modern class d state of the art amps have this fault. Again, use google to see why this is a potential issue. There are a few GaN amps on the market that are well designed- the Orchard Audio products have been well reviewed and have excellent performance. See the Audio Express article. I have no issue with GaN in general, just with amps that are jumping on the bandwagon with poorly performing designs or amps that are more about form than substance. As I said, there is no reason to spend $3000, $4000, $5000, or more on a class d amp to get state of the art performance. When you spend that sort of money, you are paying for cosmetics rather than performance. If that’s what is important to you, have at it.

If you want dialog, be respectful

Look who's talking 😆

And again you did not answer my question. Which tells me that you are talking about a product, about which you have no experience about. No doubt Atmasphere called you out on trolling. I cannot continue to waste my time with you anymore. If possible, try to add value to a discussion, in future. And remember your own statements from past about who cares about your opinion. Good luck.

Is there a way to block specific user posts on threads here?

@milpai

You asked on what basis I find GaN amps lacking and said you were looking to learn. I gave you a thoughtful reply with leads on where to find further info to educate yourself. In reply, you insult. I expected as much. Information, like the GaN fet, is only as good as the implementation. If you were genuinely curious, you would have taken the time to actually do some homework and would have indeed found value in the reply. You got out what you put in and look intellectually lazy as well as dishonest in your intentions.

Whether or not I have heard the Atmos amp or any other has no bearing on what you or others may subjectively think about it after listening to it. I gave you cold, hard facts, when it seems what you want is for someone to tell you what you want to hear. Listen for yourself, no one else can tell you what you will prefer. If you understood the actual uselessness of other people’s subjective opinions you wouldn't be hitching your wagon to other’s subjective opinions and would see the ignorance of your question to me.

My issues are with poorly designed and implemented GaN amps, or expensive amps built to market to people who apparently care more about style than substance. As I said, these are my opinions based on actual objective data.

No rational reason whatsoever, from a performance standpoint, to spend $5000 and more for a class d amp. Of course if someone wants to spend $4000 for a flashy case to get performance that can be beaten by a $1000 Hypex or Purifi amp, it's their money to squander...

A solution in search of a problem. The best performing class d amps on the market today do not use GaN fets.

@kuribo, these and the many more you post are just your opinions, nothing more...

@ddafoe

Of course they are my opinions, but unlike many others, they are based on facts. If you want to argue the facts, have at it. Show me a GaN amp other than Orchard’s product that performs as well as Hypex or Purifi. Show me a $5000 class d amp that performs 5X better than the $1000 class d amps using Hypex or Purifi modules.

but unlike many others, they are based on facts.

Show me a GaN amp other than Orchard’s product that performs as well as Hypex or Purifi. Show me a $5000 class d amp that performs 5X better than the $1000 class d amps using Hypex or Purifi modules.

@kuribo, what are the facts you are talking about that create your absolutes in performance and value?   You are always talking in absolutes, but can't explain what you have listened to (or own) and what makes one perform better than another...  Does one sound better to you?   If so please explain the differences you hear?  What different speakers have you tried these different amps with?   Are you only going by measurements, then clearly say so that we all know your opinions on what is best and what offers the best value is based solely on the measurements you consider important.

Throwing it back at you, please show me why the $5000 AtmaSphere amplifier does not 'perform as well' as the Orchard or the Hypex, or the Purifi.

I haven't told you what speakers I own, but I'm guessing your answer will take that into account, right?

@ddafoe

Throwing it back at you, please show me why the $5000 AtmaSphere amplifier does not ’perform as well’ as the Orchard or the Hypex, or the Purifi.

The designer has said he can’t compete with the performance of the Putzey’s designed amps, so there is that.

Subjective opinions can not be debated so there is no point in discussing them. There is no right or wrong, nothing provable, nothing factual. No need to discuss what I have heard, what you have heard.

What we can discuss is objective performance. That can be quantified, measured, compared. It's what amp designers use to design their product. Most, but not all, endeavor to create a device with as little added distortion as possible. Please compare the distortion added to the signal by the Hypex and Purifi amps and compare to other class d amps. Tell me which are truest to the input signal. This is the only way to objectively judge and compare amps.

"Objective performance has never been proven to mean anything sonically.....so there is no need to discuss it, the only thing worth discussing is how it sounds"......

This statement is the opposite of what was just stated above. Who is correct? It does not matter. The mind believes what it will.....but your senses tells you what is REAL

Can any of these above mentioned amps (Purifi, Hypex, Orchard, AGD, Atmasphere, Technics, Lyngdorf, etc.) keep up sonically with a modified Peachtree GaN 1 or VTV D300 digital amp? Your analog Class D amps need a DAC, analog cables and maybe a preamp....the digital amp just needs a streamer with volume control and a single coax cable. Way less money........and we shall see very soon how they compare......as the first modded Peachtree GaN1 will soon be compared to the Coda 16 amp.....both driven by the Lumin X1 using Leedh digital volume control......this will be fun!

as the first modded Peachtree GaN1 will soon be compared to the Coda 16 amp.....both driven by the Lumin X1 using Leedh digital volume control......this will be fun!

I wonder if this would be apples to apples comparison ? With Peachtree GAN1, you are using only the streamer functionality of X1, while with Coda 16, you are using both the streamer and DAC functionality. Likely, they would sound very different ?

I haven’t heard or read of any issues with customer service from the many US and European sellers of class d amps using Hypex or Purifi modules. Do you have actual evidence of poor customer service you can share from any of the main stream amp providers?

This is a strawman; I didn't mention anything about the brands above.

I didn’t bring up your product here, you entered the discussion after I commented that there is no need to spend $5000 on a class d amp when there are better performing amps available for a fraction of that. I didn’t mention your amp by name. You jumped in and offered a justification for the high price.

And no, I have not singled you out, I made a general comment. I would respond the same way to any product here that has a performance not scaled to the price. I appreciate substance over form.

Calling BS. If you are going to take that approach, you need to up your game.

FWIW we did not make our class D with an idea of making it to a certain price point. Instead we wanted good quality in all the parts with good reliability and priced to the same formula we've used for the last 40 years.

As I said, there is no reason to spend $3000, $4000, $5000, or more on a class d amp to get state of the art performance. When you spend that sort of money, you are paying for cosmetics rather than performance. If that’s what is important to you, have at it.

So this is what you think Technics is up to?

I have chosen to troll this thread? No, I made a general statement that you decided to challenge. I simply responded.

But, ok, I have failed to identify the market you are attempting to serve. Let’s say then it must be that segment of the market where high prices are a feature, not a bug, and where "value" isn’t a consideration. That’s fine and honest. No need to justify your price here, I get it.

Again, calling BS. And FWIW, still don't seem to understand the market. Your strawman here demonstrates that obviously enough.

No, you didn’t mention anything directly about Hypex, Purifi, etc. You made a general statement about cheaper alternatives. I simply seeking to clarify the record by asking for any evidence of issues with Hypex or Purifi, which are much cheaper alternative. You haven’t provided any so we can assume you weren’t including them in your general statement. Thanks for clarifying.

And it is easy to scroll through this thread and see that no, I never mentioned your product, nor anyone else’s, by name, when I made my comment about "no need to spend $5000 on a class d amp"...you jumped in and tried to justify your price. Anyone who can read can see this for themselves below. Someone needs to up their game, but it isn’t me.

So you used the same pricing model you have used for 40 years. Perhaps you have been overcharging then for 40 years.

What is Techniques up to? Perhaps catering to a market that isn’t value conscious? Perhaps they are looking to recoup their r&d costs. Or maybe they are pricing according the PT Barnum theory. Speaking of straw men, this is a nice example- just because other competitors are charging way above what a closely performing, or more likely, better performing amp costs, doesn’t mean they are any sort of prize. Having lived in Japan for 14 years I know a little about Japanese business and marketing and the status that is created by putting crazy high prices on prestige products. The Techniques amp is also a bad value when judged on performance.

Again, you claim you are selling to a "different market". So what? Bottom line, there are products on the market with better performance at 1/5 the cost. For those looking for a high performance class d amp, they do not need to spend $5000 to achieve state of the art performance, period. If they want to spend $1000 or so, they can get state of the art performance, good customer service and repairs/updates, and a product that by all appearances will last at least a decade and probably more. They won’t get a heavy linear power supply (so what?) and a fancy case (for many, another so what?). They won’t have sunk a lot of money into an amp tech that they may want to upgrade if something better appears in 5 years, and if they wish to keep the amp for 30 years, they can buy 3 of them, put two in storage in case the others fail after 10 years, and still have $2000 left over to spend on whatever. Oh, and then there are those who might want to buy 3 for an active system and spend the leftover $2000 on dsp or a multichannel dac for an active, truly state of the art system. Wonder if they would miss those heavy amps and flashy cases?

As @jeffseight mentioned earlier in this thread, there is an excellent recent YouTube video called "The perfect power amplifier?" by Harley Lovegrove of Pearl Acoustics. Harley praises the accomplishments of Bruno Putzeys and his colleagues on building the Purifi amp modules, which are outstanding for their clarity, detail, tight bass, and dynamics. However, at the same time Harley says that the Purifi module is not all that pleasant to listen to without an excellent buffer to increase the gain of the module.

Harley mentions that Warren at VTV generously sent him a Purifi module along with a couple of op amps to use with it, one from Weiss and another from Sparkos. (He preferred the one from Sparkos.) So Harley’s view (and VTV’s too) is that the Purify module is a great starting point, but it only becomes a great amp with the right implementation. As Harley suggests, it’s technically brilliant now but it isn’t amazing yet.

In my opinion, we should applaud the efforts of talented designers at Atma-Sphere, AGD, Orchard, VTV, and elsewhere who appear to be using Class D models (whether using MOSFETs or GaNFETs) to try to make the best sounding amps possible. This may often involve more costly R&D, parts, power supplies, and custom components or modules to be successful in the marketplace.

Harley Lovegrove mentioned that he recently had the pleasure of having Bruno Putzeys come over for an afternoon of talking and listening to gear. Harley will be publishing his full interview with Bruno on March 14. It should be interesting!

I simply seeking to clarify the record by asking for any evidence of issues with Hypex or Purifi, which are much cheaper alternative.

This bit isn’t accurate. Have you priced them recently? We have. Using those modules would cause our amp to be more expensive than it is now.

But if we had it all made overseas it would be cheaper. If we didn’t have a dealer network to support the customer the same. If we didn’t care about the product being rugged enough to survive shipping abuse things would be different.

I’ve bought cheaper stuff that was supposed to be better. I hate to do it, because so often it simply doesn’t work out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVDEE30XB5A

We care about these things- so the amps are made here in Minnesota, they have dealer support, they hold together and have a lasting finish- and they meet emissions directives for real.

FWIW in the last 40 years we’ve been less expensive than our competition operating in the same performance bracket, often by several times. In the case of our class D, its less expensive than the amps it competes against, in some cases by mulitiple times.

FWIW if you bought an amplifier and put it in storage for 10 years, it would likely need to be refurbished at the end of that time since the filter caps would be shot at the very least.

Fortunately our class D isn’t one of the ’heavy amps and flashy cases’ you are talking about...

Its very obvious you have a personal agenda that has nothing to do with amplifiers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVDEE30XB5A

F'n fabulous...

Thanks Ralph.

This bit isn’t accurate. Have you priced them recently? We have. Using those modules would cause our amp to be more expensive than it is now.

Of course it is accurate. There are Hypex nc500 and Purifi amps, complete, from several sources, that are around $1000. No, they don't have a linear supply (they don't need one), no, they don't have a flashy case, nor do they have something you have to hide. They have decent warranties and companies that stand behind them. They are easy to repair and update. And most have a 2 to 5 year warranty, compared to your 3. And let's not forget, these are 400W, 500W into 8 Ohms, in other words, double the power or more than your 200W into 8 Ohm amps.

It's hardly a close comparison value-wise.

I fail to see why you keep repeating the bit about how it would make your amp "more expensive" to use 3rd party modules. So what? All that tells me is your modules must cost you very little, making your amp even more over priced. There must be at least a dozen or more companies out there who have figured out how to make a 3rd party module class d amp for less than half the price of yours or less. Maybe you need to up your game.

Less expensive than the other class d amps it competes against? So it's the least bad value of the bunch in the over priced status amp luxury market? Congrats.

I have no personal agenda, other than to call out over priced, under performing products when I see them. Audio is full of over priced products that don't measure up to far cheaper alternatives. I have no doubt your amp is well engineered, well built, and performs well. It's just not a good value, in comparison to other class d amps which have flooded the market, in my considered opinion. I am sure it will sell well, though I would not necessarily consider that a reflection on the amp itself, more further proof that audio is full of insecure, status seekers who like to spend extravagant amounts of money on products to assuage their frail egos.

@ddafoe ,

I noticed that you have the new AtmaSphere amps. Congratulations on the new acquisition. Would be eager to know how they compared to the Pass you had perviously. I have read nothing but great reviews about Ralph’s Class D amps.

There may be not much of universal objectivity in comparing  different amplifiers.  The tastes are different . Most people like 8 cylinder pickups. I don't like them independently of their price and the gasoline they require. I prefer a light sport car. If an "American meat and potato" translates to an 8-cylinder pickup,  I am not sure if I will like Atmosphere class d. In fact I am not  impressed with Pass labs stuff, it's again matter of a taste.  If you want to drink water and instead you are given a very good prepared tasty lemonade, you would not like to drink it. I don't like  lemonade and Coca-Cola-like drinks although most people do like them (by the way if you want a cheap version of a Pass  amplifier, try Nuprime stuff, e.g. ST-10 class d amplifier). I'm so glad I was able to repair my Cherry Megaschino class d amplifier. I can now drink a pure good quality water. Tommy would have been very happy to hear this. 

Kuribo, your judgement may come from some objective data, this may make sense. To be more convincing you may go a bit deeper into the design basis of some GAN amplifiers, e.g , those of Atmosphere. Of course it would be important to compare them by yourself with Purifi etc.  (By the way, what you would say about the former amplifiers if they were five times cheaper?) In fact, i own LSA GaN Voyager for already some months and keep it on a shelf unplugged. I am disappointed not only with its sonic properties but also with a terrible service i experienced. 

ICE ICE baby! Checkout the Legacy ICEedge technology amps. Own one and love it!

AFAIK, ICEedge was relatively new.  ICEpower however has been around for much longer.

So when we say "legacy ICE" I have to believe you mean ICEpower.  Maybe I'm mistaken.

I have no personal agenda, other than to call out over priced, under performing products when I see them. 

more further proof that audio is full of insecure, status seekers who like to spend extravagant amounts of money on products to assuage their frail egos.

@kuribo, well done, after incredible amounts of excruciatingly repetitive posts on almost every Class D related thread that is created on this site, you now make it very clear your agenda and also what you think of us (likely the majority of the posters on these objective forums too) as 'status seekers'  who like to 'spend extravagant amounts of money on products to assuage their frail egos.'

Nice; from my perspective, all the more reason to skip over your posts...

Oh yea, what system do you listen to again?  Just a hint, if you have mandated yourself to save us 'status seekers' from spending too much on Class D amplification, you might want to tell the rest of us what your system consists of and describe to us how it sounds and performs.

@niodari 

Sorry to hear you did not get the assistance you need with your Voyager. BTW, I have one and love it!

Do you know Ric Schultz from Tweak Audio? He does mods, including the Voyager You might contact him about his upgrade. I have his EVS 1200, a ground up design based on dual AS1200 Ice modules. I have owned many many amps over the decades, tube (including servo and OTLs), SS (class A, AB, D) his EVS 1200 is one of the very best amps Ive ever had

hth

Curious if the OP @grantgg has decided on any amp or had a chance to hear any?

@niodari

In fact, i own LSA GaN Voyager for already some months and keep it on a shelf unplugged. I am disappointed not only with its sonic properties but also with a terrible service i experienced.

It has a load variant frequency response as I have said due to its lack of post filter feedback. This problem was solved in class d 20 some years ago. It may be your speakers present a load variance that is causing an issue with the frequency response that you find unpleasant. This is an example of an amp that jumped on the GaN bandwagon and suffers from an issue modern class d designs do not suffer from.

@ddafoe 

 

Nice; from my perspective, all the more reason to skip over your posts...

Oh yea, what system do you listen to again?  Just a hint, if you have mandated yourself to save us 'status seekers' from spending too much on Class D amplification, you might want to tell the rest of us what your system consists of and describe to us how it sounds and performs.




 

Feel free to read or not read, no one is making you read anything. I can't help it if my posts strike a nerve.

I wouldn't ever even begin to believe that what I prefer in audio components would have any relevance for others. Do your homework and find what works for you- it will prevent you from overpaying for products that under perform for their cost. Unless of course you find some psychic value in paying for certain things that are perhaps not directly related to performance. Best of luck.

kuribo

I have no personal agenda, other than to call out over priced, under performing products when I see them. Audio is full of over priced products that don't measure up to far cheaper alternatives.

So you see yourself as a savior, eh? And you assume the roles of judge, prosecutor, jury, and executioner because you have "considered opinion?"

I have no doubt your amp is well engineered, well built, and performs well. It's just not a good value ... I am sure it will sell well, though I would not necessarily consider that a reflection on the amp itself ...

Have you heard the amplifier? For that matter, have you even seen it?

... more further proof that audio is full of insecure, status seekers who like to spend extravagant amounts of money on products to assuage their frail egos.

Yes, you have certainly provided proof that audio has its share of "insecure, status seekers." Well done!

@tweak1 , thanks for your remark. My LSA GaN 350 Voyager was sent back for the repair, but it came back with the same performance and a worse physical shape (they have broken the plastic frame of the case without even letting me know about it). Do you use the back RCA/Balanced selection switches? Independently of which of the inputs I use, my Voyager sounds more or less acceptable only if one of the channels (the left one) is in RCA and the other one is in XLR positions. Otherwise, the amp sounds like a $100 Sony amplifier from BestBuy. They were not able to or did not wish to spend enough attention to arrange this issue, literally returning the amp as it was (and not precisely, because of the broken case). If you like how it sounds, there could be possible to do something. I contacted Ric Schultz earlier regarding the problem with my Chery Megaschino, he said he cannot help.  (but Ralph has agreed very kindly to try to arrange it, but finally, to my surprise, it was repaired for $80 by a technician who is within 10 minutes of driving distance from my house, hope this will last). I will try to contact him though am not too optimistic that this amp may sound good. 

@kuribo , honestly, I did not notice any dependence of the frequency response on speaker loads. I tried the Voyager with three different pairs of Thiel speakers in three different systems. The problem is not literally in frequency response (in both high and low frequencies). It rather gives a "dead" sound for my taste. I cannot explain it logically, though soundstage and separation could have been better. Curiously, I enjoy even more Nuprime   ST10 class D amp. And there is just no comparison with Cherry Megaschino amp, which I indeed enjoy. 

I wouldn't ever even begin to believe that what I prefer in audio components would have any relevance for others. 

@kuribo, really?   Then why do you continue to post your recommendations on Class D amplification and ridicule those who choose to spend more than your  mandated $1000?   You are contradicting yourself.

@ddafoe 
 

Then why do you continue to post your recommendations on Class D amplification and ridicule those who choose to spend more than your  mandated $1000?   You are contradicting yourself.

Do I really need to explain the difference between subjective preferences and objective performance again?