Need help picking my first tube amp

- Hi audiomike , I see you decided to pick up a Little Dot Mk II and a vintage Technics Receiver congratulations - but then I also saw you are having shipping and contact issues . . . .  Unfortunately I am not familiar with the company, sorry. 

 - Hopefully things will work out , I've been burned buying several pieces of audio equipment - luckily it doesn't happen too often , but it's a real bummer if it does.

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-  I have a Question , Do you know if there a way to send personal messages on this forum??  

 

- I read though threads here often but I've never gotten involved in the discussions.

 - ( I looked for the answer but don’t see how to do it ).

 

---  The reason I was asking about sending a personal message was that I wanted to share my recent amplifier find with you but it is kind of personal........  and there is also another reason for not just posting it as well - lol )

 

- I also wanted to ask you something about your setup too.

 

Thank you,

Best regards, Dean

 

 

Has anybody here used Apos ? i ordered a dac and they sent me a tracking number but that was 4 days ago and it say USPS waiting item ? and Apos dont respond to me emails, i now want a refund and buy it somewhere else.

So i have a update, i bought the Little Dot Mark ii and some russian tubes for it, it will be here thursday.  I canceled the emotiva after talking to some headphone people.  I ended up getting a vintage Technics 70s reciever in steller condition.  Im going to run my Little Dot for driving my Hd 6xx and use the Little Dot as a pre amp to feed the Technics, now were talking some vintage late 70s sound, i cant wait.

Heard the noise floor on the emotiva isnt good, and i have always wanted a vintage reciever.

I think you made a wise choice going with the Emotiva at that price point. Steve Guttenburg called the BassX int amp an "over achiever "

Cheap tube amps with little to no support are best avoided.  Used Quicksilver like a Horn Mono or Mid Monos are quality amps that can be had reasonably.  I picked up a year old pair of Mid Mono amps for $1050.  

Enjoy the Emo and be sure to follow up with your impressions.     My brother is interested in one , looks like one of the best values out there right now

The Dream of a Valve Amp, Halcyon days they were to.

I have owned Phono Pre > Pre Amp > Power Amp Combinations for many years and have never wished for anything different.

I have attended many events both Commercial and Enthusiast and have heard a vast amount of Valve equipment.

I also am fortunate to be able to listen to Valve Amp's in other systems from,

OTL Power Amp's, Vintage Sansui Integrated, EAR Power Amp and a new Amp on the seen being a VAC Integrated.

What I have learned is that a Valve Amp has two masters, one who loves a loose bass line that lingers and others that prefer theirs taut with a speedy decay and cut off.

A Valve Amp can be chosen to deliver a Voluminous Roof Filling Sound which is very attractive to somebody who does not become detracted by a noticeable Bass Bloom being perceived, and one that smears the lower frequencies in a replay. 

For those who have a problem with a presence of a noticeable Bass Bloom, the journey to discover methods to reduce the noticeable presence has with it an uphill climb, as equipment will need to be carefully matched to reduce the presence, which can result in a period of exchanges of devices.

It really is case of 'what's your poison', or in another context, 'what poison is to be discovered that is yours'.

I have struggled mostly with Pre-Amp's over the years, there is to my perception an injection of richness from these devices, which can increase the richness of the lower registers, in cases to the point the Bloom in the Bass is quite present.

I believe it could be the reason why some prefer the Valve Pre with a SS Power Amp, as the injection of richness, suits as a device for reducing the SS traits that can be fatiguing. 

If a Tube Pre is the desired amp, and a performance that offers a transparency is on the wish list, there is a Amp that is well within budget and is a modern take on a Valve Amp.

For the past few years, I have had a Nelson Pass Korg B1 used in my system and this has a synergy that has been extremely pleasing and has made a very positive impression on guest listeners.

To give it further credit, the EAR Amp owner had a EAR 864 Pre on a home loan, and the Korg B1 in a very basic build guise was demonstrated along side it.            The outcome is such that the EAR Amp owner has a Korg B1 produced with upgrade components.

The Korg works in manner that is triode like, I have now heard a Korg B1 used in multiple systems and I can only sing its praises.

As said and should be able to be acquired well within budget.      

      

That company in Canada looks really interesting there amps, im looking into those.

Yep start off cheap and see if i like the tube hype and then move up the chain.

@audiomike33, I can relate to your philosophy. Start with something relatively inexpensive,and move up,or move on.  That’s pretty much how I started my tube based preamp journey. I started with a low priced tube buffer. Lived with it for a while,and decided it was something I wanted to pursue.  I made multiple upgrades until I landed where I am now.  I get it. Other ideas are just as valid. Remember,this is a hobby. Enjoy the journey.

"Always been tube curious, i hear so much about them that i have finally decided to try them in a cheap way.  I have always been into music, amps, speakers, just never tried tubes."

I guess that's kind of sort of the way it started for me almost 30 years ago. Then tubes turned into something akin to a bad habit.  Good luck on your quest.

http://www.thebestamp.com/Tube_Pre-Amps/Classic_100_Series/QA-001-Mk3.php

 

 

This manufacturer has a tube preamp with headphone amp for a little over $700. I have his next model up from this one, which has a tube rectifier, it sounds great with my solid state amp.

I don’t think I am going to be of much help. (No experience with JBL nor those Mc units.)

But how are you doing the active crossover (Active-XO) for the bi-amping?

The new MiniDSP Flex would allow one to do the active-XO as L/R in and L-hi/L-low (etc) as it has 4 outputs.

That would keep most of the low freq (bass) power from needing to be amped up in the tweeter/horn side.

Always been tube curious, i hear so much about them that i have finally decided to try them in a cheap way.  I have always been into music, amps, speakers, just never tried tubes.

from the sound of your post it almost seems as though you want to get into tubes for the sake of getting into tubes. Which is not really a good place to start. Better off to try and think what you really need and then see if there is a tubed option that fulfills your requirements. Probably not what you want to hear, but the best advice I can give.

I recently was thinking about a cheap tube amp.  Caveat emptor.  Design is a very loose term.  One was wired as such that the tubes lit up but thats it.  Not sure where the sound came from.  As near as I can tell, there are a few good sounding ones Yakim and Cayin for example.  But their prices are high as others.  1000 to 1500 range.  Then lots of choices.  I thought about trying one from Amazon.  Some highly rated ones were basically mix and match parts.warranty service.  What's that.

I have acually heard the Emotiva basx A-100 now renamed and redesigned a little and now called the A2M.  It has 50 watts and the headphone amp you can change the jumpers and go into straight from the amp mode which i heard is good.  I think for 300 dollars its hard to beat.  Now i just need to find something under 300 tube pre amp to connect to it.  I am thinking amazon cause if i dont like the sound or quality its a easy return.

I really wanted the Yamaha WXA-50  which i heard is a kick but and amazing sounding desktop amp, but it has no headphone jack.

@holmz So I have Mac C33 & MC402. Running some old JBL 4331’s with L100’s on top. I kind of have a thing for vintage JBL. Anyway, I bought a pair of 4345’s that I would like to bi-amp with the Mac driving the bass and tubes driving the mids and tweeter. Just trying to figure out a way to make that happen without a huge investment in case I don’t want to keep it that way. Any suggestions would be much appreciated.

Well just bought a emotiva a2m 50 w desktop amp that has a kick butt headphone output on it that's going to be my amplifier now I'm just looking for a two to $300 little tube preamp maybe something off of Amazon something inexpensive to mess around with until I find the right sound.

I actually bought one of those Chinese intergrated tube amps off Ebay from Douk Audio for around 1k total, plus Canadian Customs/Import fees just over 5 years ago. It is still listed under them on Ebay( kt88 burgundy in colour), with a $200 increase since then mind you.

It's no McIntosh, but I liked the sound, warm, full, can’t say a bad thing about the unit, yes cheap parts, but the damn thing works and works well. I would recommend one, cheers.

If buying new and want US-made, you couldn't really go wrong combining these two components.

https://www.schiit.com/products/freya-1

http://www.classdaudio.com/

My question is, to get the warm tube sound that I enjoy, do I get a tube preamp or power amp to start. I would also be interested to hear what everyone’s take on a good entry level component without having the budget constraint.

What gear do you have now?

It is probably easier on the budget to do a tube pre and class-D on the amp side. But adding to what you have is an evolutional way to get there.

Well I can get an excellent deal on an emotiva base x a-100.  I'm thinking of buying that because it has a headphone jack and it's got a crazy insane headphone power and then trying to hook up some type of tube amp to it a little small portable one that could sit on top of it I may go that route.

My question is, to get the warm tube sound that I enjoy, do I get a tube preamp or power amp to start. I would also be interested to hear what everyone’s take on a good entry level component without having the budget constraint.

I have a Yaqin mc 13s with gold lion tubes I don't currently use. I have had it for several years and have enjoyed it toughly. No headphone jack though.

My advice would be choose your speaker matching well. 8 ohm , high efficiency speakers will sound the best. In your price range, you will be underwhelmed with tubes + <4 ohm 84db speakers. I matched the Yaqin to a pair of ELAC Uni-Fi bookshelf's at first and it was meh. Built some DIY high efficiency speakers and it was magic.

 

Yeah I actually watch his reviews he's very good and I've been looking at some of those amps but I need to have a headphone jack too.

Chinese tube amps are good. Many mainstream manufactures like PrimaLuna are made in China. No worries. I'll look for a basic push-pull EL34 tube integrated that is hard wired because the circuit design is simple and repairs are as well down the road.

Watch from of Thomas and Stereo reviews - he does a great job and most of his offshore amps are below $1k.

 

 

I had the Xiangsheng 728A preamp, a Chinese product. Once I worked through a couple of quality control issues, it was a workable tube amp. I didn't notice glaring defects in the sound, nor did I hear any notable excellence from it.

I went to a Van Alstine Transcendence RB 10 tube preamp, around $1000. By comparison, the sound is accurate yet not oversharp like some solid state preamps. All in all, a delight to listen with.

 

Agree Chorus, but out of my price range, thinking i need to save more money.

Decware- 9 month build time USA

Wilsenton & Doge- Chinese, cheap, Excellent reviews

@holmz It is possible they did it after 1998. I saw this on Joe's Tube Lore

"Special warning to Audible Illusions preamp users:

The one you can say for the Sovtek is that you can run it hard and it can take it - and apparently that’s exactly what AI does. Unfortunately the classic NOS tubes in this family just cant take this kind of treatment and will rapidly fail when used in these units (and some of you guys have the fried tubes to prove it!). So you AI users are probably best off limiting yourselves to the Sovtek, the Russian 6H23N & 6N1P, the 7DJ8 and the E288CC. There may be others the range of tube types and variations is quite literally bewildering but these are the ones I’m aware of that should be able to handle the higher stresses of this brand of preamps. I review the Edicron, Siemens E288CC and 6H23N here but there are other brands for some of these. I’ve seen Phillips E288CCs & Amperex 7DJ8s advertised on some web sites in the past and there are probably others. It might be worth your while chasing them down & evaluating them for yourself to increase the number of alternatives for use in your AI."

This was posted in 1999.

https://www.audioasylum.com/scripts/d.pl?audio/faq/joes-tubes.html

@pwerahera I ordered some new tubes… They have been in since the last millennium … But the whole thing sounds pretty nice, and I am not expecting an ah-ha moment. But it would be nice if it happened. (It really cannot get a lot better)

But maybe they drive them harder in units after 1998… I dunno.

@holmz I would stay away from AI units. They drive their tubes very hard and it will reduce lifetime of the tubes. Not sure if you have experienced this.

@audiomike33 There is a VTL TL 2.5 advertised by High Performance Stereo for $1,200. Make them an offer.

https://www.highperformancestereo.com/preamplifiers-surround/vtl-tl2-5.html

And one Cary slp 03 advertised for $990 in the US Audio Mart.

 

I have an Audible Illusions Pre (Modulus line stage).
It is not bad and used is just within your budget.

Im not calling it a day, im going to get a tube pre amp.

 

MP-301 MK3. is out from music paradise, heard some reviews and its only 6.5 watts and very bass thin from the review.  

Unless you get some screaming deal, the $650 USD is probably better off being saved up in the bank.

Just get a good Class-D and call it a day (IMO).

 would look for a VTL TL 2.5 or Cary slp 03. I cuuerntly use Cary slp 03 and owned VTL tl 2.5 before. Both are excellent preamps with 12AU7 and 12 AT7 tubes. VTL does not have balanced input or outputs, but still a very good tube amp for the money. Either one can be purchased under $1000. Cary has line-level inputs and VTL 2.5 have an optional phono stage. Highly recommended.

 

Liking the sound of this, where do i find these two amps ?

I highly recommend the Schiit Freya. I have the original (which should sell in your price range used) and the ability to switch from passive to SS to tube really proves the value of 6SN7 tubes in the system. There is NO headphone jack however. I have several cheapo chinese hybrid amps (not really very good sound, one I use while on my noisy treadmill). The APPJ EL34 tube amp ($300-400) (not a hybrid) is great driving my open baffle 98db Lil audio speakers plus a small powered sub (in my kitchen system). The power switch while lovely, failed after about 100 uses. So I unplug the amp when not in use.

@audiomike33 I would look for a VTL TL 2.5 or Cary slp 03. I cuuerntly use Cary slp 03 and owned VTL tl 2.5 before. Both are excellent preamps with 12AU7 and 12 AT7 tubes. VTL does not have balanced input or outputs, but still a very good tube amp for the money. Either one can be purchased under $1000. Cary has line-level inputs and VTL 2.5 have an optional phono stage. Highly recommended.

Thanks guys, i know my price range is low but its all i got.  Alot to think about, but im for sure going pre amp.

Im maybe thinking of Yamaha WXA -50 for the amp, have heard that things rocks and fits perfect on a desk.  I may consider the Emotive Basx A-100 or whatever the new version is called.  The hardest part is finding the tube pre amp.  I like the idea of being able to return it if it dont sound good, Apos maybe a good idea

You guys gave me some good information, china stuff hard to return and fix so have to be careful.  Keep the ideas coming.  I have had Schit stuff and its top notch really not a fan of there plain box look but its top notch.

Try it, only shipping to lose.

Actually Apos gives you 45 days return privileges.

I would concentrate on a preamp. It is the thing that sets the tune for the whole system. If you want to go Chinese… ok. But do not read their literature find American or European reviews… this is an inexpensive price range… meaning you need to do a lot of research. One of the problems would be if it is damaged… or needs repair. Some are really reliable… some not. There are a lot of sdvantages to buying with something that has already been imported.

 

If you could get a used Cary that would be spectacular. But given your price I have to recommend a Schiit Freya + maybe you can get a used one… they are now $949… it is both SS and tube (switchable). Schiit stuff performs at levels a couple times their cost. Made in USA… has a headphone jack. Lots of reviews available honestly this really fits your bill really well. I got one for playing around with.

Well it's for my desktop and the efficiency of my speakers are 90 DB so no problem there. The ta-26 only has one input but I only need one input I'm not hooking a bunch of stuff up I'm basically just going to run a dac into it and that's it, and of course it already has a headphone jack so that kind of does everything I need. If I do use the ta-26 I will have to get a amplifier cuz it's only a preamp. Thank you for all your suggestions I'm going to look at some of the links that you guys gave me and see what there is.

Shop for used Quicksilver or similar.

If this is for the desktop system you mentioned before research the Musical Paradise MP-301 MK3.

It’s a 6.5 watt single ended tube integrated amplifier with 2 sets of RCA inputs and a headphone input (link is to the main page).

https://www.musicalparadise.ca/store/index.php?route=common/home

 

DeKay

 

We need to know what amp and what speakers you are planning to drive. 

I have a TA-20 that drives most cans, 2 inputs plus balanced in & out. It is very nice, better than my Schiit.  No pre though. The TA-26 is not much of one, 1 input only.

Get it from Apos, they match any price you can find, deliver quick from US warehouse and give you 30 days to see if it is for you.

To give it any kind of chance you need to roll out the Chinese tubes.

 

 

 

For your budget you are limited. We need to know the efficiency of your speakers.

look at this: https://www.parts-express.com/Dayton-Audio-HTA100BT-Hybrid-Stereo-Tube-Amplifier-with-Bluetooth-USB-Aux-In-Sub-Out-100W-300-3842 it is stupid cheap and stupid good for the money. with some of my bookshelf speakers, it sounds better than my $800 Yamaha.

Might try Bellari PA555. I have not heard it nor have I had any experience with their products.

Chuck