My new B Stock speakers

Best of luck with your new speakers.

Best of luck with your new speakers.

Thank you, @stereo5  !

If they’re new, and sounds like they are, they’ll need around 100 hours or so of playing time to break in and sound more like what they’re capable of and will probably continue to improve for a few hundred hours or so past that.  In other words, if you like what you’re hearing now it should get even better from here.  Enjoy!

I am glad you like them. It does not surprise me at all that you prefer the Revel. The Revel is simply smoother on and off axis not to mention many years of development.  The Harman curves which drops about 5db from bass to treble is really about perfect for my tastes. It allows them to be loud but never fatiguing. 
 

The 128be is a bit of a bass shelf from 100hz to 50hz (measurements linked below) and are most likely designed to be somewhat close to a wall. If you have them far out into the room maybe try your crossover as high as 100hz if you are using a highpass. If they are 2’-ish from the front wall maybe try 70hz. I ran my Revel 228be highpased at 63hz with a 24db highpass. 

On a side note of another B&W vs Revel comparison, I thought the 228be with a pair of JL subs out performed the 802D4 (both on Mac gear). The revel is a lot smoother. The 802 made male vocals sound pretty thin and the tipped up highs were pretty noticeable. The JL subs just sealed the deal for shear power. The only place the 802 did better was with much more sound stage depth, width was about the same. Now the 802 is one amazingly built speaker and looks the part and the revel looks pretty average. 
 

https://www.erinsaudiocorner.com/loudspeakers/revel_m126be/

I did say I was looking for an excuse to send them back.

Best of luck in your search.

@soix , yeah man! What you said was what I was thinking! Now I am wishing that for all that listening I had been doing since I took my system out of mothballs in ’17, I hadn’t had been cheating myself out of what I think is going to turn out to be a lot of ear-pleasure! I am excited about this! And yes, I will enjoy!

To add to my initial impressions, I started them out with a couple of CDs I usually only put on to warm up my stuff while I am doing other stuff--jazz (what form I am ignorant of)--the Blazing Red Heads and then the Rippingtons, and I was in and out of the room for those two red books, but what I noticed when I was out of the room, was how much livelier (to use another what I am sure is a cliche) than it sounded before when I was just using those CDs to warm stuff up for ’the serious listening.’ Maybe lively isn’t the right word, but how pronounced the music sounded, especially I noted on those shaker things that I guess are part of the percussion. See, I wasn’t joking--I really do not know how to describe this stuff.

And they certainly seemed to me to look as if NIB--the speaker grilles were still wrapped nicely and it looked to me undisturbed from where ever they originated before MD. (but I make no claims to be an authority on that) and am I correct in assuming that they were B stock because the serial numbers were so far apart, meaning that they are not a matched pair?

@james633 , I actually was surprised . . . the reason I waited so long to initially play them, besides the weather, was I thought I was going to be disappointed and I made excuses to put off the initial session. You sent me a links to Harman Curves when I posted a question a while back ago inquiring if anyone knew anything about these particular Revels. I have to be honest with you and say that all of that is pretty much Greek to me, but now I am going to go back to that post I made and re-read.

As far as placement, I haven’t goofed around with at at all (yet). I left the stands where they were with the B&Ws which had rear face of the cabinet about 25" (give or take a few sixteenth’s either way) from the wall. They are in an imperfect world (and that is putting it mildly), but I am completely infatuated at this point in our relationship. (I had the B&Ws pulled out as far into the small room as I could, as I thought that would be more helpful for soundstage).. But I will play with that. I will also follow your suggestions with the low pass filter on the sub, but for a while I just want to listen without the sub. What I will say for the B&Ws was that: with a good digital source (meaning usually SACDs, and I do not have a TT) there was height and width and a bloom. But I have not played my best stuff yet (I want to break them in more) and after what I heard today, I am expecting what the B&Ws did with good stuff, plus MORE!

Anyway, after hearing what I heard today, I am thinking that what comes after this may have to be a way to add some treatments. A while back ago I did actually cover the tile floor with throw rugs, and I think that as this room is probably over lively, the next thing to try to adjust would be absorption on the front wall.

Anyway, I appreciate the link (and the previous links you sent) and I am going to take as serious a look as I am capable of and I appreciate the placement and sub low pass adjustment suggestions.

 

I did say I was looking for an excuse to send them back.

Best of luck in your search.

@cdc  , I don't think I am looking anymore!

It's worth keeping an eye on MD, as they often have closeouts on brand new speakers.  You can get some stellar deals.  I think they also routinely carry Focal's closeouts as well.

@erik_squires , yes, they did have a pair open box Focal "booksheves", I guess that when I thought that the Revels were made in America that was why I leaned that way. (that and the fact, I hate to sayit, that the Revels were few hundred less). But yes, I always check out MDs open box/B stock/factory refurb section when they send me their emails . . . factory refurb is actually how I ended up with the SA10.

I had recently seen an open box pair of floor standing 3 way Focals that were on the smallish side for floor standers, and they were within the $ range I could justify, but then I read MDs review and they said that they were intended for rooms of at least 270 square feet, and other reviews I found on line suggested not for near field. Plus, a very real concern I have for a small room is what if too much bass? I mean with two ways and a sub I can always turn the sub up or down. I will say that a few years after I got those B&Ws of mine (and I used to run them in a larger room) I got to seeing 2 way speakers and subs as a compromise, but now I think that in this room it may be a compromise I am almost forced to make.

But I am liking what I am hearing so far!

25” should be a good spot. Measuring from the driver’s face to the wall is typical. Genelec has the best setup guide I have ever read (link below). Skip to about 1/2 way down and read the “Wall Reflections and Cancellations” section. In that section it explains why the distance from the front wall should change with and without a sub  

 

Subs can be tricky but well worth it. If you are not high-passing (limiting the extension of the speakers with a filter) 50hz looks like the right pace to use a sub since the F10 (-10db point) of the speaker is 44hz. Much higher than 50hz and you will get over lap with the main and really should use a highpass at that point… maybd something to try later.

 

Thanks, @james633  !  I will definitely give that a read!  I asked about positioning, I think it was on AA a year or so ago, and someone gave me a formula, and I wound up hating it and wound up where I started, but I will give this a serious read.  

I do have a M&K highpass that I bought after I bought the sub (that is going way back before the B&Ws) and I had a smaller amp back then and it helped that amp out a lot, but somehow/somewhere down the line I changed things up (bigger amps) and I started using the XLRs and my high pass has only RCAs, so I guess I quit using it then.   But I liked what I heard without it, so I stayed without it.  

I have never tried the SLP05 NOT using the balanced input tube slots, and I have some absolutely delicious sounding '55 Sylvania "Bad Boys" I only have a pair) in those slots, and I hate to NOT use them. But  I guess nothing ventured/nothing gained.  I just hate making choices though.

Thanks again for that link!  I will be seriously looking at it hopefully tomorrow!

86 Db is not sensitive at all. "Easy to drive" does not always mean sensitive. It may mean impedance is not very complex so most amplifiers will be able to handle the speaker. But amp may not have enough power for the speaker to play loud or handle transients. Sensitive I'd say, is 90 Db+

It's a great feeling when you buy a new piece of equipment and you actually like it... especially speakers. No idea why the phase difference with the test CD. Sounds like the Revel's are doing it right though. Congratulations on the new speakers. I hope they give you 30 years of enjoyment. 

I don't know about your phase question, but my advice, don't drive yourself crazy.

INVOLVING, that's my fundamental criteria (and summation of all descriptive adjectives that I, like you, avoid).

Your description indicates that you find the new Revels more Involving than your prior speakers.

DONE!

....................................

B-Stock. Hmmm, what I would want to check/know is how well the drivers are matched/balanced, from low frequencies up to high frequencies, midrange the most important. I'd like to know even if they were not B-stock.

Assuming you know your listening space, and have found the positions they sound best (not necessarily same location as the B&W). Remember, front ports/rear ports are very different.

Definitely no sub for this evaluation. I would also stuff the ports for listening to the drivers without the port sounds.

Female Voices (Linda Ronstadt a perfect voice for this), I also use Cassandra Wilson, Annie Lennox, a few others): you do not want some frequencies stronger on one side than the other. You don't want the imaging to wander l or r as their voices go thru a range of frequencies.

Listen, no obvious wander, DONE.

..............................

IF a problem, if you notice l/c/r wander more than a few times, IOW, the singer is not moving about on stage) what to do?

1st document each speaker's individual driver's output using tools, not ears. Ears will always be final.

a. Inexpensive SPL Meter, Tripod, Listening Location, Seated Ear Height

Meter needs hole for tripod screw

Doesn't have to be precise or even calibrated, it will show you relative volume changes for any frequencies you compare.

b. TEST CD (not lp) with individual frequencies, this one, tracks 9-38 (29 1/3 octave frequencies)

amazing bytes test cd:

Make a chart, record left speaker results, right speaker results. Don't look for perfection, just find anything more than a little different.

Important: Is the difference the speakers???

Switch speaker wires at amp end. Repeat, differences the same, then it is not anything else in the chain, thus the speakers.

.....................................

How to solve it?

IF you have meaningful differences, come back, let us know, experienced suggestions will follow.

 

86 Db is not sensitive at all.

@mikhailark  , I realize that.  That was why after I typed the rating for sensitivity I then typed that the reviews I read called the speaker an easy load to drive.  I had my reservations about a sensitivity rating of 86.  But they are nearfield in a small room and my B&Ws are 87 and I could get those speakers rocking out in 50 wpc triode.  Some time ago I posted a question about a pair of Harbeths I had seen listed that I was interested in that were rated at (I think) 85 or 86 and were described as an easy load to drive, and I inquired about that here.  The relationship between nominal impedance and sensitivity was explained to me, but electrical theory usually goes over my head.  They sound good so far.

@mattw73 

It's a great feeling when you buy a new piece of equipment and you actually like it... especially speakers. 

I was actually putting off my first audition as I thought I was going to be disappointed!  I am wondering if unhooking my sub may have effected the in phase/out of phase test tone?

 

 

@elliottbnewcombjr ,

B-Stock. Hmmm, what I would want to check/know is how well the drivers are matched/balanced, from low frequencies up to high frequencies, midrange the most important. I’d like to know even if they were not B-stock.

I am going to have to carefully read and re-read your informative replay, as well as the link @james633 sent me regarding placement. As I typed, the serial numbers are not numbered close together . . . I am thinking that this is why they are B stock? Because they are not matched? I can see no blems or scuffs on them (that is one of the reasons the MD rep said they might be B Stock). ,The thing is, at their MSRP I was unable to justify them (expensive is a relative term) but at 3k (1400 off of list) they fit into a range that I could feel okay about. There was a price to be paid for retiring as early as I did, and it is me thinking a lot harder before i spend money.

Okay, one of the test CDs I played yesterday had (I think they were called?) "frequency sweeps"? And the narrator said they should be smooth from bottom to top? Is that what you were referring to? To my ears they were smooth. But with that typed, I openly admit to not having the greatest ears in the world, and I had been telling myself for quite a while that those ears were okay with my B&Ws which obviously had a lot of room for improvement.

(Which I also know is relative--as excited as I am now about these Revels, I can only imagine how I would feel about a real high end pair of speakers.)

Congratulations on your purchase. As you know, one shouldn’t draw any conclusions from the first few hours on a new purchase with speakers… but of course, that is human nature. So, congratulations on being human. Just a reminder… the speakers need to be broken in by at least one hundred hours. Let them play all night long. Many folks put them together speaker to speaker pointed at each other to reduce the sound levels.

The sound will improve considerably from break-in but also from positioning. Positioning can take weeks or months after they are broken in. It is something best approached by taking your time. If you do not do it all the time it is best to put long intervals of listening to music (not listening to the speakers) in between… then making a change.

 

You clearly put a lot of effort into research and have made an informed purchase. Sounds like you made a good one. Try and not doubt your decision and enjoy the process. I have never heard of any kind of b-stock that has any functional compromise. Typically it is some virtually invisible cosmetic thing or an excuse to sell perfectly good units at a discount.

 

Enjoy.

@immatthewj - electrical theory is rather simple here. Here is how I usually explain it. Amplifiers are designed assuming that load is pure resistor. But speakers include filters (capacitors and coils) and driver units themselves are coils. And coil moving in magnetic field produces its own current, so worse still, the speaker is an active load (it strikes back!).

Bottom line is that the load is much more complex thing and it is hard to design an amp that is capable of handling all types of loads. So here were are, discussing cables, amps and matching speakers :-)

Thanks @ghdprentice  !  I am going back in!

Thanks, @mikhailark  for the explanation.

Like I tried to say, sounds darn good, don’t over-think it, just enjoy.

1st thing, you find the speakers more involving

OH HAPPY DAY!

IF they sound great, nothing get’s your attention except good listening, DONE.

...................................................

The whole thing I wrote is only because you keep calling them B-Stock and the serial #s are far apart,

that is why I would be CURIOUS, to find out how well they match each other. No need, just that I’m retired, have the time, spl meter, amazing bytes cd, and tripod ready to go.

......................................................

How do you get things matched IF you find some problem(s) exist? (find imbalance with the SPL meter and multi-band test CD with many INDIVIDUALLY selectable frequencies, not a sweep).

I have experience matching my vintage speakers that have L-Pads. It’s easy to get ’adjusters’ of any kind OFF their best setting, It’s hard work to get them frequency balanced, each speaker, and together.

I use the meter and test cd, then I make final adjustments by ear, primarily how far to push the highs? Get out my favorite tracks for this. Eurythmics, Sweet Dreams, Annie Lennox’s voice and Dave Stewart’s trickery; Enough is Enough DUET by Barbra Streisand and Donna Summer; Andreas Vollenweider, White Winds; you know if you find you cannot hear some highs that are there, and also if you have pushed too far.

IF problem(s) exist. I’m having a professional hearing test on Wednesday. I’m 75, I am sure they will find something (if only age-related diminished high frequencies).

In anticipation, I bought a dual channel 31 band (1/3 octave) equalizer. So far, in-line set to ’0’, i.e. flat, I and a few friends cannot tell it’s in-line. Dead quiet.

It has detents at ’0’, that’s important. A taller unit’s sliders have longer movements up and down for greater accuracy.

DBX 2231 Equalizer Clone

Totally identical to DBX inside and out, same printed circuit boards, transformers, jacks and positions, in/out options .....

I chose this one because it is already in the USA, and from Amazon, easy free return.

Whatever they find, I thought I would try an inverse curve, curious as to what I hear here. Hearing AIDs, have limited adjustability, if I find out I ought to get/try them, they would be for everything except listening to music, the equalizer doing a more refined adjustment.

.....................

Equalizers have IN or OUT switches, so you can hear the difference for yourself, ask friends who visit what they hear, turn it off for listening with others, perhaps with hearing aids in, .....

The Revels are fantastic speakers. I hope you are falling in love with the sound.

I scored a pair of Celestions a few weeks ago (for close to nothing), and I can't get enough of them.

What type of music impressed you most with the Revels?

@immatthewj 

Don’t forget to give us a review in a few weeks.😉

..... okay ; '' who is MD ''  ?  

Music Direct. 

@grislybutter  , what I seem to pay attention to most is the vocal work.  There were inflections in Linda Ronstadt's voice that were brought out more than what I had noticed with the B&Ws.

Also, before I settled down in my chair in my room, I put on a couple of jazz CDs (The Rippingtons and The Blazing Red Heads) just to get the system warmed up.  I was in and out of the room and doing a few other things while that was going on (and this is standard for me, I usually put one of those CDs in while I am preparing my dinner, and then after I eat and clean up the system is warmed up) and what I noticed from outside the room was a cxlarity (sharpness?) I hadn't heard before when I was outside the room.  Particularly with those shaker things that I guess are part of the percussion.  And the thing is, I really wasn't listening for it when I was outside the room, because I was not expecting that.  I honestly was expecting to be disappointed, and beyond that, I've read enough here to know that speakers need break in, so I was truly not expecting much.

With all that typed, I am a moody person, and when I have things on my mind I don't listen, so although day two was supposed to be yesterday, and I did have the amp and preamp turned on and idling good and hot, I did not even put one CD in.  Today is a new day though.

@curiousjim  , I will do my best.  But I do not have the ear for this, nor do I have the vocabulary.  So it will be, at best, a beginners review.  

What type of music impressed you most with the Revels?

@grislybutter , sorry, I didn’t read that carefully before I replied. The type of music? Too early to say, I guess, I listened to an old test CD that had music tracks that were mostly instrumental jazz and one had a lot of percussion, and to start with I had two hours of instrumental jazz that I referenced last post, and I did enjoy that, and  as I typed, I was impressed by the clarity and how lively it sounded (particularly some of the percussion) , but with that typed, I did like it through my B&Ws. also. Female vocals are probably my favorite, and I have listened to Linda Ronstadt an awfully lot, and as I typed before, I really liked the nuances I heard on her voice on several songs from Greatest Hits Vol. 2 through the Revels.. . . . but it’s way too early for me to answer that question. I suspect, if I stick to my MO, I will be listening to a lot of female vocalists, but to begin with, I had intended to listen all over the map, and I do own a wide variety.

I’d be listening right now, but the skies  are dark and ominous, and a few threads of late have got me running on the paranoid side.

@gareneau , if you didn’t catch Soix’s replay, because I miss replies sometimes when they do not have an @ in front of them, MD is Music Direct. They are easy to deal with and they frequently have specials on factory refurb/open box/and B stock.

 

@immatthewj my go-to is female vocalists too. I can't listen to Linda Ronstadt, it evokes memories from my past - painful times when her music was my comfort but I do love her voice. I also can't get enough of Joanie Sommers, Sonnie and Cher, Frazey Ford, and 60s, 70s soul and R&B, Gladys Knight, Ronettes, and alike. The other types of music I would test is "complex" - classical pieces or difficult arrangements, but I will never have speakers that will play those music and details at a high level. So I am happily stuck with "simple" vocals. 

I hope those Revels will grow on you!

 

The weather couldn’t make up its mind tonight--dark and nasty to almost clear to dark and nasty--but no electrical activity. So I finally said screw it & got back there & put 3.5 plus on ’em. I did what I told myself I wasn’t going to do (for a while) which is to say after I warmed the system up with one of my two "warm up" jazz CDs while I was cooking/eating/cleaning up I then started picking out CDs with one or two or three songs I really really really like a lot and playing those one or two or three songs. I(I had intended to stick to test CDs and the reference music that is included on them, until I got some more hours on them.

Anyway, here is what was surprising: as much as I was surprised on Sunday by how much better they sounded than my old B&Ws, tonight I was a bit surprised by how I wasn’t blown away again. In other words, I was expecting more than I got tonight. Which is not to say that they didn’t sound good, because they did. The way my mind & ears work together is funny. But yes, I do know that I am still shy of ten hours on these and they do have a ways to go before they hit their theoretical stride. I was just surprised the way they DIDN’T strike me tonight. But I am seriously not taking anything away from that. And another PART of that could have been some of the source material quality.

A few things I did notice: with the lights off & my eyes closed I was always impressed with the way the B&W’s sound stage could extend beyond the walls, and not only do the room boundaries disappear, so do the B&Ws. The Revels also manage to do that. (This is contingent upon good digital source material, usually MOST noticeable with SACDs. I still haven’t played anything but red book with the Revels). Something else (again contingent upon the source, and USUALLY with SACDs) that I liked that the B&Ws did was provided a lot of "height" to the sound. Early on tonight, I noted that was lacking to an extent with the Revels. As the evening wore on (I have cut way way back and tonight, including with dinner and while listening, I only had 2 and a half glasses of wine) I began to notice the "height" increasing. Again, this could have been due to the quality of the red books I was selecting. I am sure I am not telling anyone anything they do not know, but they are not all created equal. One thing I think that I definitely did pick up on tonight, was at the later stages of my session I felt that I was starting to hear more of the ’front to back’ in the soundstage. This has never been a particularly strong point for my B&Ws and I attributed it to the room. With the B&Ws there is a front to back balloon, but it lacks detail that define those dimensions, and tonight, near the end, I started to pick up on a bit more front to back detail. So I could chalk that up to a) the wine (but it really wasn’t that much) b) I WANT to hear improvement so I am whether it is there or not or c) the Revels, even at this early stage, are just better than the B&Ws and they are making more, in certain aspects,.with decent source material.

Although I am not rolling on the floor in orgasmic aural ecstasy, I am not unhappy with the way it went tonight.

@grislybutter , I did a google on your Celestions, but what I got was mainly gguitar speakers. Which did you get? As a a new owner of new speakers, I am happy and excited for you. I find it too bad you can not bring yourself to listen to Ms. Ronstadt anymore. She has such a beautiful and expressive voice. Sometimes I hear her and I think of that expression, "She has pipes." I didn’t listen to her tonight, but I have some CDs earmarked. I know what you mean by music bringing back sad memories. In (I think it was) ’74 when I was in HS, my oldest sister (like 6 years older than me) got in a bad car wreck in a town far away and came away with a severe traumatic brain injury that left her nonfunctional until she died in a nursing home about 4 years later. Weeks to months after the accident happened I still believed we were The Waltions and nothing that bad would happen to our unit and I still believed in miracles for The Waltons and I still believed she would get better, and every morning when I was getting dressed and ready to go to school I would listen to my Elton John Don’t Shoot Me [. . .] cassette and when Daniel came on I would insert my sister’s name for Daniel’s. I can listen to that today, but Daniel always makes me think of her and those days and it makes me sad. Tonight i listened to a track off of Loyd Cole CD (LOve Story) and the track is one that blows me away, Like Lovers Do . . . the lyrics paint such vivid wistful pictures for me . . . and to top it off, it reminds me of when I bought that CD . . . it was in the ’90s and I had a great job and life was worry free and I listened to a public radio station at work and they played a lot of stuff none of the mainline stations played and that’s how I picked CDs I would buy and that’s how I discovered Lloyd Cole Love Story . . . and that wistful song always reminds me of those great carefree fat & happy days when I was about 30 years younger and I still felt physically great and maybe mentally better too . . . and for those reasons, plus the wistful nature of that song . . . it makes me sad when I listen to it. But I do anyway, despite the sadness, I love the imagery it evokes for me. So TMI and long story to say I understand about your relationship with Ms. Ronstadt . . . and I find it sad that you can no longer bring yourself to experience her wonderful beautiful voice.

@ghdprentice , I reread your reply. I am taking your advice regarding giving myself plenty of time before I get into the placement link @james633 sent me and experimenting, but I am going to break them in the "old fashioned"(?) way, because with all the unsettled weather we have been having around here lately, I have been afraid to have stuff even plugged in a lot of the time. Not to mention how paranoid all those unattended tubes make me on a good day. As I get older I get more and more neurotic and as far as "good days" . . . they are further in between.

Alright . . . Ramble On . . . I am hoping for an electrical free atmosphere tomorrow, and Ill get some more hours in. I am excited about it.

 

Revel 126Be are always on my radar. Great midrange on that speaker.

Revel do not match serial numbers, so even a new pair from a dealer may have gaps in the numbers.

B-stock likely had a cosmetic blemish that was fixed, or maybe a loose port, driver failure, who knows. It was fixed and you got a good deal on a great speaker. Enjoy them! 

Glad your music is making you happy.the brain releases morphine like substance when we're happy . And the mesolimbic system in the brain members the good times .

@immatthewj that's a beautiful (and partly tragic) story! Thanks for sharing. I read somewhere that our musical taste doesn't change much, what we like in our teens is what would listen for the rest of our lives. Yes it evolves but we will always be drawn to songs we heard when we were young and invincible. 

Long and Winding Road, Different Drums, London Town were all breakup songs for me so I don't think I have heard them more than 5 times in the last 3 decades. Different Drums was especially painful because it made me realize why my marriage was over in a state of complete confusion, when nothing else led me to accept it. Every word "hit the spot" - not in a good way. I still remember I was driving through Kendall Sq in Cambridge, Different Drums (that I had heard 100s of times) started playing on the radio, and suddenly every word she sang had a different meaning. I had to pull over to avoid an accident,

How much fun to talk about music not just gear.

 

@dr-boop , thanks for the info on the Revel SNs.

@mark200mph , on a good night, music makes me feel great.

@grislybutter , ah yes. Different Drums . . . I can see that. I remember when I was in the Air Force back in the early ’80s, I had a buddy who had the Greatest Hits Vol 1 LP specifically for that track. He actually bought it because of a breakup. But it was not a breakup with someone he was married to. It is a magnificent arrangement that was put together for her cover of that song.

I remember growing up in Montana in my early to mid teens hearing Linda on AM country radio stations . . . When Will I Be Loved . . . then about the time I graduated I heard her cover of Blue Bayou and I loved it so I bought the Simple Dreams 8-track . . . to this day Simple Dreams would be on my all time desert island list. I hate to use the word ’favorite’ (because I have so many favorites, how can any of them be my true’favorite’?) but I’d almost say that Carmelita is my favorite of the songs she covered on that one, which may actually be my favorite CD by Linda.

". . . Carmelita, hold me tighter, I think I’m sinking down. . . ."

Listening through the break-in process can be maddening as you’re finding out.  Things can get better, then get worse, and then better (hopefully) again.  I wouldn’t start to seriously assess anything until you’ve got at least 200 hours on them, so if you continue to listen through that period I highly suggest having a good supply of wine on hand for sanity purposes.  That you like a lot of what you hear already is an excellent sign though.  I’m familiar with your B&Ws and would be surprised if the Revels didn’t surpass them on almost every level and think you’ve chosen wisely — FWIW.  Also, that your B&Ws don’t appear to be capable of revealing phase differences would have me very concerned about them as that info should be readily apparent as it is through the Revels — very strange.

@immatthewj Blue Bayou is such a sweet songs too...

Fun fact about "Different Drums" - it was written by Michael Nesmith - of the Monkeys. It's amazing how these talents cross paths....

@soix , thanks for the continued input. I do remember some posts a while ago in which you indicated that you felt the B&Ws could be bested easily by other monitors/bookshelves. I did used to like them a lot, though. The weird thing about the B&W and the phase tests is that on the Sheffield labs CD (and I think it is Rodger Skoff talking at the time for the phase test), it does exactly what he says it should: in phase Rodger’s voice is tightly centered, and out of phase it’s like surround sound. But on another test CD, with 3 tones and the middle tone, out of phase, is supposed to be quiter, with the B&Ws it is not. I am thinking that I never listened to the B&Ws without the sub like I( am now, and wondering if that is what’s causing it. Oh well, easy enough to experiment with that part of it.

And I am not drawing any conclusions as of yet . . . I am taking your advice. Just enjoying the ride. Barring T’storm activity, I am going to log a few more hours tonight.

@grislybutter , I did not know that about Different Drums. I do really like the arrangement that was put together for her. It is special. The last time I saw her interviewed, she seemed relatively happy, despite everything. I hope she is. Happy, I mean.

I don't want to sound silly about the B&W but I never liked them and I think you may just realize you "deserve" better. I am not saying they are bad speakers, they are a great brand but it's just subjective, to me they always sounded "dry". I would expect a lot more from Revel for pure musical joy, they were made for people like us 😀

@grislybutter  , you may be right.  The B&Ws, at the time I bought them, were replacing a way more affordable pair of NHT 2-way bookshelves that I had picked to pair with a M&K sub . . . this was my entry into HT back in the era of VHS and Dolby Prollogic (I have long since exited HT).  The B&Ws were a big upgrade from the NHTs and for quite some time I was in love with them and thought that they could do no wrong.  There were occasions I played them so loud for so long that I thought that they might explode.  I will give them credit that they never did.  

Regardless, I think that they are suffering from a combination of being obsolete and being worn out.  And now that I have heard the difference, even at this early stage of the break-in game, I am wishing I would have gotten off the fence a few years ago.  

I just started my ritual of powering components up, and as it looks like no T'storms are rearing their ugly heads, I will be putting a few more hours in tonight.  I may make a pot of coffee, or two, tomorrow and make a day out of it.

Oh and about the Celestions.... 

The company stopped making speakers 10+ years ago, now mostly make drivers. In the 90s they made the 3, 5, SL6, famously, they were all budget friendly, quality speakers and I still have a pair of 5s. What I found recently is a pair of F3s. Very small floorstanding speakers but they do sound big and yet refined, beautiful with vocals.

Do you have an old receiver laying around? Or solid state amp? When skys are clear, rig something up to run these guys in. It sounds like you may drive yourself crazy in the one hundred or more hours it could take them to turn. 
 

Breakin is very specific to different components… typically very pronounced on speakers. But, there can be times when the sound jumps from ok to really bad, and  back. My ARC equipment does that around 120 hours. Flip flopping. I haven’t broken in speakers with bazaar breakin patterns recently… but have long ago. Woofers are notoriously subject to.breakin… but there is crossovers as well as the other drivers. 
 

It really doesn’t sound like breaking these in “the old fashion way” is going to be a good experience for you. Borrow an integrated? AVR?

I don't believe in breakin making a big change. Your ear will adjust more than the breakin will change the sound. These companies want to sell the products that are in the box, not products the way they will sound 3 weeks later. Yes, they will change, but if you don't fall in love with them after your first 10 favorite songs, breakin won't change that.

I don't believe in breakin making a big change...Yes, they will change, but if you don’t fall in love with them after your first 10 favorite songs, breakin won’t change that.

That was definitely not my experience with my speakers. When I first played them for the first week they sounded so bad I thought seriously about returning them as they sounded anemic, lacking bass, and overly thin/bright — it was awful and I felt sick over it. But after a couple weeks of heavy playing things improved significantly with much more bass presence and more balanced/natural treble and I breathed a huge sigh of relief, and things continued to improve for weeks after that until they finally settled into where they are now. Telling someone new speakers (or audio equipment in general) can be judged effectively after only 10 songs is potentially misleading and not good advice in my experience and opinion.

@soix absolutely. This is just my experience. Very limited and subjective.

The things I am looking for and care about don’t seem to change that much, but again, I have probably heard and experienced 1/20th of what you have.

Congratulations on your new speakers. I’m a fan of the BE sound, didn’t care for the B&W sound.  Stop worrying about past measurements as it’s irrelevant when compared to the sonics you personally enjoy.

I did put three hours plus on them last night, and this afternoon I put five hours plus on them. On the positive side (and since my memory is so short I’ll speak for today) I played a lot of my classical music CDs (and one SACD) which I am not really familiar with because it is not a genre I really like all that much, and . . . I did not find myself getting bored and wanting to take the disc out. Also on the positive side, although without the sub hooked up I can tell that the bass could really benefit from reinforcement, depending upon the CD, it was not totally pathetic.

I finished off a while ago playing tracks I really enjoy from older CDs that I am quite familiar with: Jackson Browne, The Highway Men, Brandy Carlile, and Eliza Gilkyson. I think I may have heard more texture in the vocal work than maybe I was hearing before. (I think/may have/maybe are all probably the operative words. But it is vocal work that I probably enjoy and pay most attention to. On the Highwaymen, for example, I listened to The Devil’s Right Hand written by Steve Earle and The Road Goes On Forever written by Robert Earle Keene and in each one of these songs, Johnny gets a verse then Willie then Kris then Waylon and I noticed what each one of these guys actually did with their voice on their part of the song, kind of like what a trumpet player might do with his or her particular solo. But with that typed, perhaps it was because I was listening more attentively, or perhaps it was the effect of the coffee I had been drinking since I started listening this afternoon.)

On the negative side, as much as I enjooyed what I listened to, it still didn’t make me say, "OMG, I feel like rolling on the floor and screaming in ecstasy and telling the world."

But I have more to say about that later, and I am fully cognizant that I only have 20 hours on them at this point and that you all have told me not to expect miracles until 100 to 200.

@ghdprentice , I always appreciate the tone of your posts. An old receiver would be an excellent idea. I do, in fact, have a couple of Rotel amps that I used back in my Dolby Prologic HT days and an older 12au7 preamp; however, the way my system is set up, I finally have it where interconnects/wires, power cords are not a tangled mass--they are nicely segregated--but it is a bitch to get to the backs of the stuff to work on them/meaning take stuff in and out, and I find it more relaxing to put the time in as opposed to take equipment in and out. If I had a spare CD player and I trusted that old preamp, I could put some continuous hours on them without messing with the main equipment while I did other things, but, to both those points: I don’t, and I don’t. (On the preamp, I don’t completely trust it anymore after what I have read here about DC voltage sneaking out of older preamps.) But it is no biggy . . . I can be a patient person, and I am fully believing that my patience will be rewarded in this case. And if it isn’t--it isn’t; I can deal with disappointment--I am not a stranger to it.

@soix , I always appreciate the tone in which you post in as well. I am liking the sound right now even though it hasn’t YET hit me like a punch in the face. I am attributing my appreciation to the fact that my B&Ws were sounding worn out and tired, and also my limited experience with different speakers means my standards may well be lower. I could probably expound on what I mean by that, but. . . .

@kennyc , thank you for the supportive comment. The B&Ws replaced a quite affordable pair of NHTs, and it was a big step up and at the time I was beyond happy with them. (The NHT s replaced a pair of "big Masonite boxes with paper cone drivers" that were part of a rack system, and I was happy with that upgrade also . . . at the time. But I hear you, and I also hear the Revels, and I like what I hear with them also.

@grislybutter , I liked the Revels when I first heard them, and I believe that I will like them way more in a hundred hours or so. I’ve also enjoyed the discussion.

I apologize in advance for the typos I am sure I made and don’t have time to correct as I am late to run an errand.

Thank you all for your thoughts and advice. I am pretty much a happy man right now, but the caffeine may have some bearing on that as well.

. . . I wonder if speaker break in could be compared to adopting a puppy (or in my case, puppies)? Three years ago we adopted three dogs anf two of them were either 8 or 10 (I cannot remember for sure right now) weeks old at the time. There were times that I wasn’t at all crazy about those puppies, and in three years they have gone through some pretty radical personality changes. They have pretty much turned into good loveable dogs, but/and after reading what you guys have typed about speaker break in, I am thinking that there may be some vague similarity between that and puppy to dog maturity. Oh well . . . ramble on. . . .

I will stay away from the breakin comments because I am the odd one here. Given my dog: nothing like speakers.😂 She is still crazy, but lovely.

Maybe, @grislybutter , but from the reading on this forum, you have way more experience than me with different speakers. I am open to what everyone has to say.

When I bought my previous B&Ws home, there was a tangible and obvious improvement over the NHTs (as there should have been, or I probably should have quit audio altogether). Back then I was working (3 to 11s) 40 hours a week minus sick days, and during the week I didn’t listen much (unless I had called off sick), so my listening was on the weekends (and combined with HT and HT was probably most every Sat and Sun night) . . . and that is all to say that I wasn’t paying a lot of attention to the break in process (as I am trying to do now) . . . but there did come a time when I realized I was enjoying the listening experience more and spending more time doing it (listening, that is). But as far as experience with upgrades, it is all limited, but speakers is what I have the least experience upgrading.

it's a process for sure. I wish my experience has added up to knowledge. But thanks to this forum/the people here, I am making improvements and having fun.

Listening to the Revels through the break-in process, although somewhat painful, can be very instructive. The real moment of truth will be after you have >100 hours on them and you’ve become accustomed to their sound and then plugging the B&Ws back in (assuming you still have them) — you’ll know pretty much immediately what you’ve got.

I just read an easier way to break in speakers, especially where one doesn’t want too much interference with their living quarters. Install a solid state integrated amp or stream or CD player on continuous repeat as a source and here’s the difference, drape a or many blanket(s) over the speaker front and/or a similar covering cushion including a mattress or insulation boards, etc. Anything to stop the sound from entering the room more than a low muffle. Leave on all week. Then proceed to enjoy the speakers while they finish breaking in. Unfortunately, I don’t have a good solution for breaking in a cartridge needing 50 hours generally.