My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!
So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:
Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series NAD M25 PARASOUND HALO PARASOUND CLASSIC KRELL TAS KRELL KAV 500 KRELL CHORUS ROTEL RMB 1095 CLASSE CT 5300 CLASSE CA 2200 CLASSE CA 5200 MCINTOSH MC 205 CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7 OUTLAW AUDIO 755 LEXICON RX7 PASS LABS XA 30.8 BUTLER AUDIO 5150 ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005
With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer. My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)
NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes) Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)
Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)
rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)
cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)
parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)
lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)
McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.
butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)
pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.
classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)
Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:
PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.
Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.
Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?
Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp. Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.
It is articulate sounding too Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.
Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.
Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.
Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.
Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either. Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.
Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.
My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.
That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!
Hi jimmy, i started with integrateds recently and only because I came up on some deals. My main objective are amplifiers here and right now I’m waiting on the next set of amps. As far as your idea, you are right, you’re not the first one to think of it :) thanks for following the thread.
Ok guys I don’t want to be a grinch but so be it. This “beats” it verbiage bugs me. It’s not a boxing match but rather determining what sounds best to the listener. I don’t think any SS amp will “beat” the Agostino but something else might sound better to the listener given his or her preferences. We are all different in what we want the final tonal balance to be etc. It could be that a less expensive component fills the preferences better than a more expensive component. Strictly an individual thing. One thing is for absolute certain. Until you’ve hooked all the gear up, cooked it and listened for a month or more no one can get the real measure. It simply takes time. Then add one new variable and do it again. Hard to be patient but it’s the correct procedure. I’m not good at it but it’s the way it is. Changing a speaker puts you back at ground zero. FWIW
I almost bought your Luxman monos a month or 3 back. I haven’t changed anything in my system for a very very long time. my current amps (jrdg 7m’s) were built in the late 1980’s although I am the second owner and not the first. still, maybe amps have improved a bit in the last 35 or so years. ;) i need to see if there is a way to follow a particular seller on A’gon like one can do on eBay
WC, it was a smaller Sonja 2 series of the YG that I heard, probably the 2.2. They are 88 dB efficient, so my guess is still the Wilson Yvette. But that Sonja YG was just about the most natural dynamic speaker I have heard. No hifi-ish character. It did well in a medium sized room at GTT Audio in NJ. Bill Parrish, the owner, had a dozen or more leading reviewers at his place to hear the flagship Sonja XV. It was written up a few years ago.
WC, how can you not remember having a pair of Olymica IIs in the garage, although if they were Olympica IIIs, you would not have forgotten. I cannot see where the Gryphon would better the Dag in any area, based on my readings of both pieces. Your assessment we tell us. Enjoy ! MrD.
Dominick: the Hegel h30 is awesome. That’s one great amp with enormous bass control. I can’t say anything bad about it but the Luxman 900u is a more refined component.
You guys crack me up. Hey I had them in the corner in boxes and I have a bunch of stuff there that I need to sell off but I’m always too busy and don’t get around to it. I saw the boxes to the speakers and I remembered that I had those there.
Guys if some of you are considering the Dag M400, i would seriously audition the CH Precision M1 before making any decision.I was able to compare Dag M400 + AR Ref 6 driving Wilson Sabrinas and CH L1+X1+M1stereo also driving Wilson Sabrinas.To my ears there was no contest, it's CH Precision all the way.In my opinon the Dag M400 are not worth the 65K price tag especially when you compare to CH equivalent gear.
Not sure many Dag owners would suggest pairing it with the near bottom of the barrel in the Wilson line OR a Arc 6. Get back to me when your using a Momentum Pre or REF 10 and Wilson Alexia 2's...cause thats the pairing the majority of Dag Owners use. Your suggesting somebody put a set of Cragar's on a Lamborghini.
Mine is here to stay. May be the best value uktra high end amplifier. Very tuby highs, world class solid state resolution and dynamics, huge soundstage
2 Months later you were trying to get the OP to take it off your hands. Yea your somebody who's advise and comments I would place a lot of confidence in.
I didn't mean to offend Dag fans with my opinion but i'm sorry to say for 65k you might be paying a lot for the case work.For less money i have found CH M1stereo more musical.Just my opinion of course.
By all means get somebody else to fight your battles.
Not interested in what ANY Dealer has to say about a product line they don't carry....let alone one from Jersey City which is situated between toxic waste dumps and gasoline refinery’s along the New Jersey Turnpike. If you like breathing in those types of fumes all day as well as the massive amount of carcinogen’s from tractor trailers heading to and from New York City I would highly recommend moving there. They have tried to clean it up but that’s like putting lip stick on a pig. Anybody that would set up shop there probably has significant brain damage already cause why would you go there of all places....and you want me to take their advice?? BTW....Im fortunate enough that I dont need to worry about "Value" but thanks for your concern.
Dealer or not dealer, we just can’t always be blind fully polarized, I’m objective enough to admit some of them have experience with a lot of products...
Thieliste, you are right and bright. Better or similar products for lot less msrp.
Not sure I understand your attempt at English....Blind Fully Polarized??
If you mean to imply Im a DAG fanboy you are incorrect. I currently own Audio Note, Esoteric, Luxman, Ayre, Audio Research, DAG, Pass Labs off the top of my head. Previously Shindo and Mcintosh.
When did the topic of conversation become MSRP? I bet Im into my Dags for less than what you paid for your Luxman Combo....you know the ones you basically said you would die with here on the Forum and then looked to dump them less than 2 months later. You still havent addressed that one. Im sure we would all love to hear how and why you flip/flopped in such a short period of time. I only know 2 kinds of people that act like that...Politicians and Women.
I won’t go into personal attack or insult like you do. You are acting on frustration, being emotional about the fact M400 can be equaled or beaten for much less than 65k. Thieliste and Viber experienced it, living witnesses. You only have your insults.
Could care less about prices period as Ive made perfectly clear. I retired at 44 over a decade ago...I want for nothing. If I see something I want I get it. You and Charles Emerson Winchester appear to be the only one in this thread that are all about saving nickels and dimes....now THAT must be frustrating.
You posted in another thread that you spent $8000 on a Dac only to find out that it didn't beat the Dac you already had that cost $4000. Your whining about how much money your going to lose trying to resell it. Guess you failed to do your homework on that one huh....Or should I say "Eh" like they do in the Great White North? All bent out of shape over a failed experiment and money lost. Sounds like a FRUSTRATED person to me.
Riaa, you understand so little... These threads gets interesting not because of angry users who can afford it all... These threads are fun because most people wants to find out what is best and what can be equaled or bettered for less $...
I do not regret my audio journey. The path, with it’s good moves and errors, is as fun and important as the ultimate goal. Just ask WC about it. I ‘m here to discover and help , not to show off like yo do. Please stop being emotional about a brand you own, you have no reasons to be, especially if you can have it all easily like you are saying out loud.
Guys, can we leave this thread for whitecamaross to share his experiences with us? Taking the thread sideways does no one good. Contributions from others are great, and we are all different. whitecamaross has keep his thread going because many AG members are interested in what he has to say. Can we let him and his thread continue without the getting adverse with each other?
Might want to do a spell and grammar check before you post. Are there any proofreaders in the house?
Porter: a person employed to carry luggage and other loads, especially in a railroad station, airport, or hotel.
So are you saying that I take all the luggage away from the other porters to grab more tips because I am selfish???
Please show me anywhere in this 2 year thread where the OP is trying to find the best products he can get for the cheapest amount of money as his primary goal.
I would argue that your not helping anybody by bashing products you have never heard nor can afford. Your "opinions" for the most part are based on plagiarism of reviews and speculation. If a review finds 1 fault out of 100 you automatically emphasize the 1 just like you did with the DAG 400 comments from a couple of days ago. People certainly put you in your place on that one and I didn't have to say anything. Anybody can see all the spite, jealousy and envy that oozes out of your posts when it comes to gear that's out of your range. You've done it so much its become your M.O.
YG Sonja 1.3 wilson audio Alexia 2 wilson audio Alexia 1 wilson audio Sasha DAW Martin Logan Neolith Egglestonworks viginti Nola concert grand reference gold
i have posted my next speaker on the list above.... tic tac... tic tac. What will it be ?
I'm still going Neolith. If I was to choose a speaker out of that list for myself..... Neolith. My only worry is that you said that you would position your new speakers one foot away from the back wall.
WC, I am sure you will enjoy some aspects of whatever speaker is coming. The problem is that your reference sound has changed so much. You declared the Rowland 925 the best, on which speaker? It would have been informative to hear the 925 and whatever amps are coming on the Magico. I could just advise getting the best speaker system, the CLX+REL, and then seeing which amp you like best. It is more efficient and cost-effective to do that, but I know you enjoy the journey. It just makes it harder to truly learn the character of each amp when you are changing speakers and you cannot afford to keep all the amp contenders around while you are changing speakers. Still, it is great that you have the BAT as reference. The BAT+Ref 10 is good enough to A/B with the Gryphon and Momentum integrateds, even though the Ref 10 imparts a slight sweetening effect according to your descriptions of it. You can get the very cheap Luminous passive that mrdecibel raves about, and then BAT+Luminous should be a true reference for neutrality/clarity, at least for some of your music that you appreciate at moderate volumes. Then you can see for yourself whether the Momentum integrated is worth the money.
WC, Based on the specs, Eggleston is it. I heard it in Brooklyn at a small studio of a young mastering engineer who had worked with Bob Ludwig. It was smooth and good for a dynamic speaker. The former YG flagship Sonja 1.3 looks interesting. Its bigness appeals to you, yet the smaller top modules would keep the mids/HF focused--nice design. The spec of 88 dB puts it out of the running, but John Atkinson measured about 85 dB, so it is still a possibility. The Neolith is not in the running, because it is over 90 dB and you would not be placing it so close to the front wall.
techno_dude, As I recall, you just wanted to swap your Lux 900u with WC's Gryphon just to try the Gryphon and simplify your system, getting rid of expensive interconnects, etc. This doesn't mean you thought any less of the Lux as your favorite amp.
I believe techno dude offered me his amp for me to buy it from him. He didn’t mention a trade for my gryphon. Hell yes the gryphon is amazing for the money. I could totally live happy with it for a very long time but there’s a mometum next to it that doesn’t let me look at the gryphon :)
By now, WC has probably listened to the Momentum Integrated on his old Sonus Faber speaker, unless he's been busy with work. His silence is deafening, since he is usually excited to report early impressions when he likes the sound. WC, you are in training to become a host of an awards ceremony who builds up suspense over who the winner is, HA HA.
Viber, WC , when I read your posts I feel refreshed. Passion and logic fused together. It gets my audiophile blood pumping.
Gryphon, an icon of audiophilia, I’m sure it is now fighting for his life against the far heavier shiny one. Rocky 4 vs Ivan Drago, sota pionneer heart vs pimped showoff muscle.
Stay tuned. The shootout will commence but be advised it will be brief. I get my new speakers Wednesday and family is flying into town on Sunday for 30 days so it will be tough to do serious listening unless I get pissed off and kick them out of the house during the daytime on weekends so I can let tbe volume know turn clockwise until it can’t turn anymore.
I will announce the speakers within the next few days. They are black color, can be biamped and some say they have zero competition under 100k. Will that be the case ? We will see.
I’m starting to get concerned as to why the mágicos m3 are now being sold again... those are supposed to be amazing speakers and they keep getting listed. I believe the seller is the guy who bought them from the dealer that was selling them here for a long time. He must have had them 2 weeks now ? Starting to wonder what’s happening.
I would like to make a few observations about some posters here. 1st, there are a lot of know-it-alls ( I consider myself one as well ). 2nd, there are a few that seem to take delight in boasting the fact that they " can buy anything they want ", meaning, they have lots of money. This does not bother me. 3rd, many people here are acting like children, and this has no place on WC’s thread. Too many children on too many threads. Gentlemen, and I am using the term loosely, keep it in your pants. 4th, to RIAA, WC DOES want to buy the best equipment, at the best price, as he has stated over and over again. Why, because he changes equipment often, and does not want to lose money on anything he buys, when it is time to resell. That has been his goal. In fact, he has stated many times, products he passed up, because the " deal " ( price ) was not right. 5th, to viber6, I could not live with the Rane eq in my system, even after my mods. My passive is just so much cleaner, and this was using the eq with everything flat. 6th, and this is for you WC. You have said so many times, that you can easily live with this, and / or that ( an example is just above, as saying you can easily live with the Gryphon, but there is a Momentum sitting right beside it ). I no longer take many things you say seriously, because, if you WERE able to live with the Gryphon, there would not be a Momentum sitting next to it. Admit it, you are an equipment junkie ( and btw, you are not alone ). I await the day you have a system that you can live with, for a long time, and finally, be drawn into the music, without thinking " what is next that I can improve upon ". Been there.... Please, I am just calling it as I see it. Still my favorite thread. With all my love ! Enjoy !, MrD.
You either misunderstood my comment or "Twisted" it. The OP knows VERY well what I meant. Of course he doesnt want to lose his shirt selling equipment. I have backed him up on too many occasions to count when others suggest boutique brands nobody even knows about it. I simply meant he isnt going out of his way to experiment with $2000-5000 amps that are being suggested "By know it alls" instead of the higher end models he is experimenting with. He's sticking with top dollar stuff for the most part that he can buy at prices without getting his ass kicked when it comes to resale.
If somebody is going to imply I am a "Fanboy" of any particular brand of course I am going to defend myself and list the brands that currently occupy space in my residence to prove them wrong. Wasnt about boasting it was about making a point that I will try MANY different brands. Yes I can spend what I please and dont need to look for the best "Value". Its seems for a couple on this page thats the whole "Game" to this hobby....get the best sounding gear at the most reasonable prices. GREAT...for them. Im fortunate that I dont have to play that tune. Thats the way some people live with Gas station shopping/Food shopping, Coupons etc....that way of living would drive me nuts.
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