WCSS, Are the new speakers 8 ohms? If they are only 4 ohms, you will have 400w/ch out of the Momentum Integrated.
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Told you all that things will get going once again.... that said, I’m close to the ceiling in terms of what I’ve always aspired to own. Will I ever own the 700k Wilson wamm and the 250k relentless monoblocks? Not part of my plan unless I win the lottery. I never thought I’d be this high up in regards to audio. I’m getting closer and closer. Sure there are a few things I’d love to try but after that I don’t see anything else in the near future. I don’t see much change for a few years. Stay tuned for the arrival of the speakers next week... they will have the gryphon Diablo 300, momentum integrated, and the mystery Monos next month.... Would you all be shocked if I decided to sell everything off and keep the momentum integrated, the new speakers and esoteric dac? Remember one thing, the speakers im getting are about 86-87db efficient so I won’t know if the 200 Watts of the integrated will be enough. I remember that one single Luxman amp wasn’t enough for the vivid audios. That said we know that the momentum integrated is probably underrated in terms of power and it’s probably more like 250 watts per channel. Lastly, I chose these new speakers because several sources said one thing to me which is something I’ve wanted in a speaker which was “ that speaker played small or big in the same fashion. It does both spectacularly” and lately I’ve been having to listen to music at low volumes so my 2 year old doesn’t wake up. This is key for me in a speaker. It must play with all bells and whistles at low and high volumes.
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Awesome! Very interested in hearing your impressions. I have the Diablo and have considered the momentum several times. |
ok guys sooooooo today i bought the momentum integrated :) i will have it next Friday just in time for the new speakers. Yes i know it is only 200 watts per channel, but i can finally say i will have hands on my first Dag piece. Very very excited. How bad will it whip my Diablo 300? we shall see :) |
Cant answer your question as they are still BNIB...Sorry Mike! |
riaa...what was your impression of the 160’s?
(aside from the 50 yard trek with them) |
Well there was a Dag Momentum Pre-Amp listed just in the past few days. Most DAG 400 owners I know prefer the REF 10 to the Dag Pre (Believe it or not). |
WC, The Momentum is a good choice for all around neutral/powerful sound. The tonal balance is probably similar to your BAT, so let's see what all that money buys you. Be honest, as usual.
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The 750SE you can get for around 20K for a Demo or used pair simply because nobody wants anything that heavy. There was a Demo pair on Audiogon the last few months...think the dealer was in Arizona. Not sure if they are still on here or not. |
w1000i, Thanks for mentioning the new Chord Etude. The British like to rate their amps at 4 ohms. This is 150 watts, so at 8 ohms it probably rates 75 watts or so. Bridging will allow 300 watts, but bridging is only comfortable into higher impedances. Forget about using bridged amps into low impedance electrostatics, unless you use high 90 dB efficiency hybrid stats and don’t blast the music. For dynamic speakers it may be OK. In the past, I heard the Chord 1050 stereo model against the higher power versions, and liked the superior articulation and detail from the lower power amp. The Etude may be promising in this aspect. In general, bridging does give more power and fuller sound, but articulation is sacrificed. For example, the Mytek Brooklyn amp reviewer in Stereophile compared a single stereo to 2 bridged monos. He liked the fuller sound of the monos, but noted that the single stereo had the better articulation at the expense of fullness. I found my Bryston 2.5B SST2 to be superior in articulation/detail to the supposedly same design of the more powerful 4B SST2. Unfortunately, WC won’t consider anything unless it is big, expensive, and prestigious. There is so much other great stuff, and thanks to you for bringing the Etude to our attention.
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Ok guys, so i need to give you all an update. A momentum piece has been finally been dealt with and I will be paying for this tonight. I will reveal soon what momentum piece I have bought ;) |
The suspense is killing me. Tick tock tick tock |
Audio Research REF 160 monos
don't weigh 200lbs. I personally think most of the top speakers like 500w/ch or more.
Audio Research REF 160 monos
are extremly good looking.
The Audio Research REFERENCE 750 SE monos are 170lbs and 750w/ch. And they are $65k. Hmmmm. |
Oh wow..sounds painful...the things we do for love..lol |
It aint Audio Research 160 Monos for sure. I carried those 50 Yards into my house and I assure you I wasn't carrying 200 Pound Amps!! Maybe close to 100 pounds each The Dag 400's weigh 115 Pounds each in the Flight Cases...almost dropped a nut trying to get those out of my car. |
If it is the Audio Research he is getting the Neolith ! |
Audio Research REF 160 monos?..nice! |
There is new promising amplifier and cheaper than what have been tested here it is CHORD ELECTRONICS ÉTUDE. With mono can give 300W in 4 ohms. |
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WCSS, We are all waiting for your reveal! What did Friday bring? |
so i guess not the vtl sieg series 2... hmmm |
I don’t want you all to find out easily... |
Tough one to find for that retail price and weight combo! Looking forward to it! Dave
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whitecamaross for $65K, you may as well go for top-of-the-line, Pass Labs gear. Happy Listening!
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Could be Pass XA600 monos, maybe Constellation monos. Gryphon monos.
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No deals and those amps were mainly sold in Europe. They didn’t sell many of those here.
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What about the Sim Moon 880M's? |
I couldn’t lock in a deal on the momentums unfortunately. They will come I am sure. It’s all about timing. The moon 888s are just too ridiculously expensive. |
Well, those hints eliminate the D'Agostino M400s and Moon 888s... |
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Mrdecibel: I like the way you are thinking :) One hint: the Monos retail for $65k. Weight 200 lbs each.
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I have been pretty consistent with my guesses of WC’s new components prior, but this time, I am a bit puzzled. I am guessing he is not getting the Neoliths at this juncture. As far as amps, " they are being built as we speak ", so that could mean quite many. How good of a deal can WC get on a brand new pair of amplifiers if they are being built ? If he could get them near cost ( accommodation price ), well this is a game changer, but usually, in this case, based on my experience, a manufacturer says you cannot sell them for a specific amount of time ( a year or two ). WC will only get something that is re sellable for at least a break even point. This is a bigger question than the speakers for me. I might be wrong about the Neoliths, because he has wanted them for so long, and I have been wrong before. Considering his lull here for a time now, he sure has his thread back. I can’t wait. Enjoy ! MrD. |
WC, I would love to see your video of the arrival of the speakers. Include yourself smiling and standing next to the big crates and showing your muscles lifting them. Another piece of evidence suggesting that the speakers are the biggest ever, the Neolith. I doubt you are going for the still bigger Magico horn system! I have a friend who had all his systems in a photo album from his early days. Since I have no children, I found this more interesting than the usual albums of the family, etc. Let us know how to access or search for your video on youtube. Do you have any previous videos/pictures that are still on youtube? We consider you family.
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kw6, Glad you appreciate my comments and tastes. What is your system?
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techno_dude, Although we agree on most things, I would say that the Neolith or 15A would still be superior to any dynamic speaker for mid/HF clarity. You are probably right about bass, though.
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bigddesign3, Thanks for your interesting comments on CD. Totally agree. As for vinyl, many years ago I had a well functioning relatively cheap Denon 305 cartridge on the Alphason HRS titanium tonearm on Goldmund Studio TT. Listening to the same recordings on LP and CD, the LP was MUCH more open with HF extension. I did this A/B on much more modest TT with modest cartridges and preamps, and the LP still walloped the CD. Today's CD's and digital recording technologies are much better, and I find CD's good enough to use as material to do extensive A/B tests. With cartridges, you never know from one day to another how the sound may vary vastly, so it is much harder to do meaningful A/B tests. Too many tests will wear out the cartridge. Today my Denon cartridge is so old that now the setup is inferior to the CD, so I need a new cartridge. For my tastes of clarity and brilliance, the Rega Apheta 2 at less than $2000 looks like a great performer at a good value, unlike stupidly expensive things like the top Koetsu or Lyra Atlas. Also, consider stupidly expensive TT like Mike Fremer's Continuum Caliburn. I cornered Fremer at a NY show years ago, and he admitted that the cartridge is the most important and cost effective part of the vinyl setup. For my tastes, a great package might be the the Rega 10 TT with Apheta 2 cartridge, discounted as a package by Music Direct for about $6500, but I will probably save money and just get the cartridge for my own TT/arm. Another problem is that nobody will let you return a cartridge for refund if it doesn't work out. Rightly so, because one slip of the finger will destroy a cartridge. I would never buy a $10,000 cartridge for that reason.
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If it’s Neoliths, I ´m of the same opinion as Viber6. It will be the same story as the 15A . A resale sooner or later.
Why? Same technology as the 15A. Just bigger panels and more powerful bigger woofers. There will not be more clarity. And no way will the bass be as fast, accurate and well integrated as the Magico.
If it’s the Alexia 2, that will be imho another story. They will be a more fun speaker to listen to, with huge dynamics and bass you will feel in the chest.
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I agree with WC I started out with vinyl with my technics tt but all my records were ruined in a basement flood. Never played them again. Now I just stream!
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Viber6 I like your tastes! They are similar to mine! Haha |
To be quite clear.... I don’t rely on magazines for any of the choices in this industry. What I have done is made my choices on a variety of audio salons and the people behind the amplifier designs. Spent over 20 years designing high end audio systems, and know what sounds good to me. I’m an engineer and understand a little more than the regular guy. The statements that you made about Simaudio Moon amps hold some weight, even though I have not heard them. But the images and electronics in the pictures that I have seen, lead me to believe that Simaudio has a very strong chance of being a major power in the amplifier industry.
Just to keep the record straight, I have 20 years of experience of sound reproduction, and designing high end 2 channel systems for the rich.
Sure, the warmth in SS amps as of right now has been something that I have not had the chance to evaluate enough as you have. Audio Salons are 5 hours away from me now. I’m in Northern Florida.
But I do understand everything else to what it takes to have a high current amp with proper power supply and transformers, capacitors and the output transistors to make for a behemoth of an amplifier that produces sound properly.
Magazines are a start for research. They don’t hold the answer. Synergy of components are the key, and for 20 years, I could put the synergy in the systems I would design for my customers. Just an FYI. I am not even close to a magazine closet audiophile.
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I’ve got no interest in vinyl. I don’t hate it but I don’t plan to start buying records. As far as amps, no it’s not momentum’s since I couldn’t get a deal done with anyone. I will do what nobody thought could be done. I learn through this journey without really focusing too much on what magazines write. I plan on video taping this once they arrive next week. |
Trying once again to guess what mono amps you are getting....
From what you say that no one has done before...My best guess would be Simaudio Moon 880 monos. You loved the Simaudio 860, and if you get some speakers that can handle some serious power, this would be my best guess.
Another amplifier that stirs things (other than the D'ags) are the Constellation Audio products. The Constellation Centaur II monos look to be a great choice as well for having the current to drive REALLY GOOD SPEAKERS that can handle high power.
This is going to be very exciting for you to experience another step up in sound reproduction. Good for you. I know if I could go further up the chain, I would. The one thing I wouldn't shell out big money for is a vinyl setup. With great sounding DACs out there now, why spend the amount of money that it costs to setup a proper vinyl system. I'll have you know that my CD Transport shooting out SPDIF to my DAC sounds better than anything in my system. The same FLAC file dished out from my Surface Pro clone computer is not the same as the CD. And that is using a USB bridge called the Singxer SU-1 with some of the best Femto Clocks around coming out AES to the DAC. Redbook CDs are still better on my system with the transparent sound that is just a notch better. And they cost peanuts these days on Amazon.
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WC, I just had a look at the pictures of maplegrovemusic's KS 17 on A-gon offers. In the background to the left is the original King Sound King model, 6 feet tall and about 28 inches wide. I heard this in NJ at a dealer and GUARANTEE that it is better in every way except maybe deepest bass extension than everything you are considering or have ever heard. The KS 17 is taller and narrower, a more recent design. It probably has comparable performance to the original King. It may actually perform better in your room since the KS 17 is narrower than the King. I don't know maplegrovemusic--I am just trying to be helpful. Unbeatable deal at $9500 asking price, even if the speaker develops a problem later. |
maplegrovemusic, To keep WC's speaker quest alive after the Neolith, invite him to hear your KS 17's, which are probably better, and MUCH cheaper.
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WC, Good luck, and I hope your back gets better. But you can most likely top the Ref 10 for neutrality and clarity for under $1k with the Luminous passive. One day you will realize that neutrality and clarity are most important. You want a variety of flavors in your music, but starting with wine sweetened with sugar is not the way to do it. I just hope you don't incur financial strain before you learn this. If you still want sugary wine, there are many much cheaper ways to get this. It is really hard to get neutrality and clarity. Pricy fine wines are not sweet. But many wine connoisseurs have chosen cheap wines as preferable to expensive ones, in blind taste tests. There's a BIG lesson there, totally applicable to audio.
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I doubt the thread will come to an end. You can’t put a muzzle on 3 or 4 of the self proclaimed experts in this thread. They will continue expounding on the merits of their yugo class gear no matter what, which I think is worse than a Hyundai matter of fact.
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Actually the more I think about it , Tekton is more like Chevrolet and the Double Impacts are like a Camaro SS. The Encores , and Ulfberht like a Corvette. They all give you a Hell of a lot of performance for the money. |
If it is indeed the Neolith , I am afraid the speaker portion of wc's journey will come to an end . |
Grey9hound: I didn’t take anything personal. I am just saying that the speakers I chose was simply because I felt like I had a great opportunity, I’ve been curious about it, I Believe it will be good but I won’t know until it’s here. Remember, I am going to also have a shot at trying some monster Monos that are being built as we speak. These will be put to the test in more ways than you can imagine. I am not leaving magico to try something I believe will be inferior. However, that remains to be seen. Lastly, the combo I’m getting ready to put together is one that no dealer and nobody has ever done before. I’ve got 2 dealers that will be here to hear this madness once everything is in place. Will I fail? We shall see...
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@whitecamaross Please do not take anything that I say personal. I am just stating my opinion ,and am not trying to make you mad in any way. I hope these new speakers will be able to do BASS well. If so ,then the music that i sent you will sound much better as most of it has good bass. I guess for me to say that i am not interested if you buy some 50 k ish speakers is somewhat wrong. I am still interested in your reviews and finding , just like everyone else. I should correctly say that I will be disappointed since I cannot afford them, rather than uninterested I still am not forgiving you for referring to Tekton as Hyundai , though :)
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