Definitely, at least two.
Reasons:
1) Like you said, different amps have different strengths, and great to have two for comparison sake.
2) In my case, I have one as a winter amp that really pumps out heat, and a class D for summer use that runs cool and provides a change of pace. Spring/Fall whatever I’m in mood for.
3) Especially nice in your case with one set of monoblocks and one single-chassis (I’d call Mephisto stereo but don’t want to get techno going - either way, single-chassis). Provides positioning and aesthetic flexiiblity - stand options.
4) Amps are your deal. No brainer to keep at least two stalwarts, and rotate in wannabes like the D’Ag.
5) It ain’t a "lab" if you only keep one : ) |
whitecamarossPlease let me know if any of you own or have owned 2 amplifiers at once and why. I own four high-end amplifiers. My system is biamplified, so I need two. But it's nice to have a spare on hand.
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So, i have a question for you all:
How many of you currently own 2 amplifiers (or more) and why?
i am interested in hearing your thoughts because i am planning to talk about living with a Gryphon Mephisto and Boulder 2150s. Each day is a battle trying to really dig deep and figure out which amplifier should stay and why. One day i prefer the Gryphon and the next day i prefer the Boulder. My mind simply does not let me choose and it becomes quite complicated to be honest.
Please let me know if any of you own or have owned 2 amplifiers at once and why. |
For critical speaker listening I always play Annette Askvik - Liberty. I think the sax solo at the end is super powerful and really can define your amps or speakers. Unfortunately, the sax solo was cutoff or not included in your video. |
Haven’t found one that beats the stock cables on the linestage. I am still doing trials though. |
Jay, I have a Boulder 1110 preamp and just tried the stock power cord for the first time tonight, and I’m a bit dumbfounded by how good it sounds. I compared it with Audioquest Firebird Source cable and dare I say I slightly prefer the stock one. The AQ cable has a very huge soundstage but loses some transparency and focus as a trade-off, almost like it’s adding reverb to the soundstage.
I remember you also experienced really good sound with the stock cord on the 2110. What power cable are you using on the line stage now? Have you found one that bests the stock cable? |
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Thank you Jay for taking your time to present these 2 videos.
I preferred presentation #2. The vocals, piano and sax (in Liberty) sounded more clear and had a 'you are there feel' to them. Also decay of notes and vocals lingered in the room longer....not sure which presentation had the footers.
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Coming up today at 6PM Eastern Time:
Critical Mass 1.5 footers with Momentum m400s. This will be the final test of these footers with amplifiers. The format is the same as before which is 2 presentations, (one with and one without the footers) and you give me your impressions as to which presentation you preferred.
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i had them in 2 separate rooms that were about 16 wide by 18 deep.
Remember, i am comparing them to the speakers i have owned over the last 36 months which were pretty good speakers. |
Jay's Worst of the worst https://youtu.be/pcTcpY_vrRs
Hi Jay, Just curious but when you auditioned the SF Olympica 3 what amp were you using and also what are your room dimensions? How far are the speakers from the front and side walls? I have the O3 and they are musical, no fatigue or brightness, good bass (not outstanding) and sound very good in my room. It is interesting how we all perceive different components but room size and setup can play a HUGE factor. Nice thread by the way :) I enjoy your opinion especially the amps as I have found a couple on your list that I totally agree. Sam |
It's been very long to compare. They are good amps. |
Jay
This is blind willgolf. I can't go back and re-read your forum thread. I do remember at one point you had Block Audio Mono amps. Do you remember them? Thoughts? How would they compare to Boulder or Gryphon or Luxman? Thanks. |
@thezaks
I'd agree with that clue. |
"One" might be a clue :-)
Dave
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Well.... One of my dearly loved amps has been sold...
I have 4 weeks to play with it before it goes to a new home.
Don’t be shocked once you know which one it is ! |
I don't remember how they sounded without the stand. Now I'm beginning to wonder... |
good find jay. and glad to see good results for mephisto with the rack.have heard good things about artesania.
LOL. those cms footers dont work with boulder, m400.what on earth do they work well with.
and jay one Question.those CMS amp stand with boulder.did you notice an improvement or boulders were as good as they were on the floor earlier without the CMS amp stand |
Mephisto PLUS Artesania stand is just Woww..... Jeez...the 3d imaging is up, the bass is tighter and deeper and the smoothness is freaky...
You are about to hear a new Mephisto soon...
I'll go on the record here, critical mass stand under Mephisto is not a match. Bad pairing.
More thoughts to come soon ! |
Great video.....no Dac's but that is okay. May be they were all good. |
Momentum and critical mass video just wrapped up.
I am in the process of editing so be on the lookout later this week.
Are the momentum m400s better with or without the critical mass 1.5 footers ? Or are they not all that with the momentum either?
We shall find out... This next one is gonna be EPIC... go buy headphones if you don't have any... |
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That 18 awg hook up wire is soldered to a $3.00 iec inlet no less. |
All the amps you name are subpar to the Luxman M-900u, both in build quality and sound performance.
I trust WC in saying it is among the best, as he compared it to serious amplifiers...the cream of the crop. And his tests were detailed and presented transparently. You haven’t. Lol, unless you’ve all 4 set mentioned above at the same time which I did, I wouldn’t dismissed the other brands build qualities. Luxman connection to the power iec is 18awg tinned hook up wire. Again, I was simply finding which amps I thought were better not necessarily a control test. They all have more grunts then the M-900u, thats 100% facts. |
Y,
All the amps you name are subpar to the Luxman M-900u, both in build quality and sound performance.
I trust WC in saying it is among the best, as he compared it to serious amplifiers...the cream of the crop. And his tests were detailed and presented transparently. You haven’t. |
Me thinks he’s just trying to drive the price down as he’s bashing them in several posts across the forum. Just because somebody is moving on from them doesnt mean anything. I know sooooo many people that move on thru ALL their gear as fast as they change their underwear it seems. Ive never seen ONE person with any credibility trash the M900U. FWIW Wow...went back thru over a month of postings and no Viber comments. Where do I send the Flowers?? Guess I can start following the thread again without popping ADVIL first. Luxman M-900u is indeed good but nothing to really brag about. After that 60 days of wowing it started to sounds boring, not at all neutral but colored on the warm side to make it sound a little lush. However the C-900u is really good pre-amp, accurate and not as warm as the amps. I tried 3 different amps with the C-900u, a pair of Esoteric M1, Vitus SS-103 and BAT VK-655SE, all sounds better then the pair of M-900u, didn’t expect the BAT to sounds that good but it did. I realized then the M-900u were the weak link. Please no dramas, just sharing my observations. |
Now you're talking Jay. Momentum M400 vs Luxman 900u monos is one face off I would love to get feedback on. DAG is on my radar as a next move. |
When it comes to me, i don't dislike the Luxman 900u. As a matter of fact, I was thinking of bringing a pair of monos for my alexx until I was told they are on backorder until June...
I wanted to do the momentum m400 vs Luxman 900u monos.
I don't collect any paycheck from Luxman by the way. I've always been vocal about how freaking good it is but I do understand that this hobby is subjective. |
Get a grip Riaa...
I mentioned it once yesterday. Read the forums, plenty of people don’t like them.
Actually, I was thinking about getting one, but made sure I researched it enough and convinced myself not to. |
Me thinks he's just trying to drive the price down as he's bashing them in several posts across the forum. Just because somebody is moving on from them doesnt mean anything. I know sooooo many people that move on thru ALL their gear as fast as they change their underwear it seems. Ive never seen ONE person with any credibility trash the M900U. FWIW
Wow...went back thru over a month of postings and no Viber comments. Where do I send the Flowers?? Guess I can start following the thread again without popping ADVIL first.
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You could also say the same thing about pass labs, Bryston, etc.
Luxman sells a ton of these amps so the higher sales volume the more you’ll see on the used market. It is all relevant;
How many Mephistos have you seen on the used market in the last 3 years in the U.S.? (Not Europe). NONE. why?
1. Not many people own them
2. Not many people are willing to pay the big sticker price
3. Distributor protects the hell out of the brand so little to no discount at all is often what you encounter when buying gryphon.
I waited for 3 years to find a Mephisto on audiogon and I finally gave up. I had to buy one from Suncoast audio and I also had to order a Pandora Preamp.
Gryphon separates (especially their top pieces which aren’t discontinued) are costly and never cheap which is exactly why sales are far less than other brands.
Boulder is now doing what Gryphon is doing too. They are now forbidding discounts and even blocking sales for some dealers. For instance, if a dealer is working with a customer, boulder will email all dealers forbidding to work with this customer because there is already a dealer working with him. This basically stops dealers from competing against each other by discounting the line in order to make the sale. Boulder actually lost two big sales by blocking sales and they were fine with it.
The bigger brands are getting tougher and stricter in order to protect their lines. This is a trend that will slowly begin to roll out in the next coming months.
So essentially don’t assume that luxman being on the used market as any sort of indication of dissatisfied customers. It might also have to do with people not knowing what the they are doing when it comes to system matching or they don't really know what kind of amp they want: (neutral or sweet).
Neutral amps are more demanding and will ask you for far more than sweet sounding amps.
Ps: all luxman 900u are on back order until June.
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Sorry Jay, but there’s a lot of negative comments regarding
the Luxman M900U from previous owners. Bad bass and bright highs seems to be
common. Possibly due to inefficient speakers? Some even go so far as to say it's mid-fi sounding.
For anyone lusting after one of these, make sure to put some effort into knowing it’s what you really want. IMO, for something that’s supposed to be so
special, buyer remorse shouldn’t be this high.
One only needs to look at the Sold/Expired listings and view
the forum posts (hifishark.com) and they’ll see a lot of these amps are resold
within a year of ownership. That's a big hit on the wallet.
I’m sure it’s a fine amp, but no way would I look into getting one of these without hearing it first.
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Boulder 1160 or Luxman 900u monos?
That's a tough one...I'd have to hear both again to really advise. My gut tells me boulder 1160 but the m900u mono is no joke...
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Oh, forgot to mention. Both are far ahead of Japanese transistors. Who needs those, anyway, there is much better American and European stuff ? |
Just watched your videos, part one and two, comparing Boulder monoblocks with Gryphon Mephisto. First, I am not at all sure that Gryphon and Wilsons are a good match, Mephisto sounds different with big Gryphon speakers. Second, you compare stereo Gryphon to monoblock Boulder, that's not fair. And third, maybe something is not quite right with cabling, including power cord.
As you did it, Boulder is obviously better, closer to reality.
Gryphon is sleepy, has no resolution or pace and is doing some kind of 'tube like' sound engineering. It has no bite and doesn't draw into the music. It puts you at ease instead of engaging you. |
Jay, which would you take? A pair of Luxman M 900U or a Boulder 1160, assuming each with their respective preamp? |
Hahaha. Yes sir!
I've been dealing with amplifiers for quite sometime and luxman is easily another animal in mono configuration.
Bigger sounding, much better bass and grip on the woofers, deep DEEP soundstage and more of a holographic feeling.
Wanna elevate luxman monos more?
Get a pair of audioquest Dragon powercords for the amps and be blown away even more. :) |
Again Jay you were right...Two Luxman 900u’s easily outperform one. Wish you would be wrong one of these times. 🙄 |
I've heard and owned the .8 pass labs and all their xs amps. Let's see how the 60.8 do. |
Wait till you hear the Pass Labs XA. 8 series. Maybe the XA 100.8. Please try and tell us what you hear |
Maybe it is youtube or maybe it is just me but I found Pass amps boring, and based only on your videos I would not even consider them. It's D'Agostino, Gryphon and Boulder.
It would be interesting to me to hear how they all would sound with bigger Kharma speakers. I know that Lamm sounds excellent with them, that's Kharma sounds excellent with Lamm.
Jay, I would like to thank you for the incredible work that you've been doing. |
It is difficult to compare when different tunes are played. But this Boulder set sounds great. I would do side by side comparison, same melody. Seems that I still prefer D'Agostino, it's got soul. But those Boulders, oh yeah.
I didn't say new Accuphase would make much sense, not to me at least. |
OUCH, that Boulder combo is just littéraly destroying anything Gryphon or Dan DAG that entered this room. |
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I want to do one thing at a time. The Boulder/Transparent combo has been running for about 10 days straight so i want to finish with that first and do a a/b comparison of stock pcs vs transparent without letting you all know what is playing. Once that is done, i will circle back to the momentum/CM experiment which has been long enough now since the footers have been under the Momentum. So if all goes as planned, this weekend we will do the Boulder/Transparent/Stock powercord video and then next weekend the Momentum/CM video. This means that the Pass labs 60.8 will be shown playing music around the 26th of the this month.
Anyhow, there will be a video dropping today at 12pm ET showing the changes the system has gone through after having the transparent cables playing music for about 160-180 hours. I think this is as good as things will get so stay tuned for this video. |
Jay - about the Accuphase. I’ve never owned one of their products, but I remember thinking that the E800 would be an unlikely match with big Wilsons, but it might be outstanding with Sonus Faber, Harbeth or something more like that. I mean, 50 watts into 8 ohms for Wilsons? But it is well-known that their US pricing is out of line. |
Break in is another one of those highly controversial subjects in audio. For those who don't believe in break in, I'm jealous, because you don't have to go through the painstaking wait, the ups/downs, etc. I will never say to those who don't believe that they are wrong, I just say they are lucky.
WC, with components that are used, my thought is that there really is not any need for a thousand hours of break in. Just a couple of days - a week at the most. For new components though, well, that does take a varied amount of time, depending upon the item.
If you were into this for your pleasure and not for the entertainment of this thread and/or your videos, then it wouldn't be as much of an issue. However, if you are here for the entertainment, then you need to be able to bounce around with different component, cables, etc. The pace needs to keep up.
The Consulting is yet another that can be impacted by this. Some folks will disqualify your credentials with regards to speaking about the sonics of different items, if according to them you did not break it in enough.
Speaking of all of this break in - shouldn't we know about the CMS footers now?
Dave
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Hi Jay - looks like you reached a crossroads in your path and need to make some decisions. Do you want to assemble the best-sounding system (to your ears) money can buy, and sit back for hours of enjoyment, or do you want to keep rotating thousands of pounds of equipment in and out to keep feeding the desires of your subscribers? Too bad that once we turn a hobby into a business it loses some of its pleasure. Or a lot of its pleasure, as the case may be. |
