I like my vinyl but digital has its own set of benefits. When my last CD player fell of its perch, I move to streaming audio. Overall, I have been happy with this decision. I did notice that lately, a number of posters have been claiming that CD is “better” than streaming. I figured that most of these were flat earthers. I recently had the opportunity to listen to a “new generation” CD player on a friends system. I am not sure I would say it was better but it was different and in a very good way. As I have an extensive CD collection, this set me off to evaluate a new CD player for my system .... at my age presumably the last I will own. I have identified a few different used players that seem to check the short list boxes: Audio Research cd 7 SE, Ayon cd10 Signature II Ultimate, Ayon cd35 Signature I and Luxman
D-06u. I am auditioning the Ayon cd10 at home .... smooth, natural, musical, holographic image, but light on dynamics and soundstage. Anyone have experience with these players? Any other suggestions?
“ …. Those worried about the viability of the CD format and getting your player serviced in the future, fear not. Inside the owner’s manual, there is a signature from the technician that assembled your ISIS, another tech that QC’d the electrical and mechanical systems and the tech that tested and archived not one, but two spare laser units. I think it’s safe to say that the ISIS will last longer than most of its owners and I appreciate this attention to detail, with CD transport mechanisms getting scarcer all the time…”
It's my understanding that the streaming master isn't always the same as the master used for the physical copy. I'm not sure how accurate this is but it is what I have been told. I have a friend that buys a lot of media, physical cd's, vinyl and also hi-res/flac files. He also streams from a couple sources and he swears there is a difference between the streaming version and his other versions of the same album in most cases. How detectable that difference is and which version will be preferred is debatable.
I own a Bryston BCD-3 and a Luxman D-05u. I recently swopped the Luxman into the system where the Bryston had been residing. The Luxman was better. Not hugely, but quite perceptibly. If you're looking at the D-06u, it will be hard to beat.
I ain't deaf yet: I hear differences, prefer LP to CD, prefer R2R tape to LP; prefer Tube to SS.
Within the last 2 years: Cooped up with Covid; Inherited Some Money and 4,000 lps; SS back to Tubes; Buying LP's again; Wife retired, listening together; Selling LP's on eBay
I re-visited my: Main; Office; Garage/Shop systems . Done! Hah.
While my TT was temporarily down, I re-discovered my best/favorite CD's and SACD's. The opposite of re-discovering LP's after years of CD's.
I researched, asked for help here, decided to go for an OPPO 105 Blu-Ray player.
It's superior processors, ...; it has 'Pure Audio' mode (all video functions are 'out', including the display). It also has optional volume settings: fixed, preamp or amp changes the volume; OR, it has remote volume itself. My Onkyo did that, but with two sets of outputs: fixed jacks and variable jacks, not a menu choice.
New interconnect cables direct to Integrated Amp. .................................................
Was it worth it? Hear Differences? Differences, if heard, matter?
I'm content to know I tried for 'better' CD, again, but in the end: not really worth it.
SACD/CD: I hear differences in SACD/CD versions, always have, with any player. But the difference I hear is in the quiet passages, extremely low noise, I came to feel an unnaturally quiet background. I stopped buying them.
For me: It's the content: the musicians, songwriting, talents, great recording engineers that are worth listening to, those discs sound great on a $35. player from Walmart! Less 'great' content (most), quite enjoyable: good, better, best player isn't going to make the experience any better IMO. ............................................
Helping several wealthy clients select equipment years back, I realized, aside from performance, you have to LIKE/LOVE a piece of equipment EVERY time you turn it on. That difference is repeatedly felt before the music begins, continues while listening, beefs up when turning the beauty off. .....................................
What I have had/compared over the years:
1st: Massive Onkyo with dual burr brown processors, single play, substantial build & spinner It's drawer eventually became problematic, fixed, problematic, annoyed.
2nd: Sony 5 disc Carosel, slim, stackable, retrieved from neice's garage sale (she lost the remote)
Compared the Onkyo with the Sony Carousel, myself and my friends. Sony 'as good'. Gave the huge Onkyo away.
3rd: Oppo Blu-Ray player, highly regarded for music: not obviously better than the Carousel, gave it to my friend, he uses it for transport only.
4th: Sony Blu-Ray player in 'all Sony' small home theater. Same.
5th HP Slimtop Computer's Drive to Carver SS, now Luxman Tubes to both B&W and now Wharfedale Bookcase/Sub combo. Perfect Imaging Triangle centered on Monitor/Keyboard, awesome.
It's the Beauty of the Machine and the Content!
For me, remembering a great deal on a piece every time I turn it on is part of it.
To truly get top digital you need to spent a minimum of around $6k with usb cable and dac ,. I have owned sub $4 k dacs they are respectable but to go to the next level like denafrips terminator ,+ holosprings May dac they are all in the $5 k range + and many R2R dacs are much more still. And if streaming at least $2k just for a streamer like a LUMIN u1,if using computer audio theJcat Femto ethernet card, and usb card, linear power supplies. if you want naturalness and ultra detail it cost $$ .
Try an accuphase or a luxman or if you can find one a wadia made prior to 2000 they will all give you excellent sound and the dynamics that most players lack.
I would suggest an Onkyo C-7030. In addition to being a quite good CD player with a superior DAC chipset, it has coax and optical outputs if an external DAC would be used.
I bought one quite some time ago and was very satisfied with the player. I moved on to an external DAC and the C-7030 works well as a transport.
Simaudio 260D Transport only use a stand alone DAC much better sound. Also the Audiolab 6000CDT is quite nice and very affordable and is a transport only.
If money is not an issue I suggest you give a try to the dCS Rossini Player, it is one of the best DAC-CD transport combination units that money can buy https://www.dcsltd.co.uk/products/rossini-player/
Linn cd players all the way back to the Mimic to me and many others have a nice warm analog sound most closely to vinyl that I have heard. I also had the California Audio Labs early model for a year with nice Linn like tone quality. Lastly you can’t go wrong with the NAD players, and at their price level they can still produce the sonority of many more expensive cd players. Pretty rugged construction as well !
honest opinions tossed in for your perusal jolywins
See if you can find a Simaudio Moon 360D Cd player it was one of the best that they made or the newer 750D player, they typically run between 2k and 3k used.
I've had the latest McIntosh MCD85 for a little over a month now. It just gets better and better with hours played. I can't believe how good SACDs and regular CDs are sounding. It also, has the ability to (firewire/usb or optical) a connection from a laptop or network device and leverage the MCD85 32 bit DAC.
I have it connected to the amp using the balanced (xlr) outputs; which also helps. However, I think at the price point there will be some less expensive competitive alternatives like the Bryston or top-line Marantz; I'm sure there's many others.
I still prefer vinyl, but like @chilli42 I have a CD collection that I want to leverage and also want to use streaming input from time to time. The MCD85 seems to be making this plan a reality without compromise.
One thing to note; like vinyl (betterecords.com discussion) some CDs just sound more engaging than others. Some CDs rival the depth of vinyl, while others are a notch below similar vinyl content. Must be the sound engineer?
I'm surprised no one has mentioned Modwright players such as the MW Sony 5400 Signature Truth, MW Oppo 2005 or any MW Sony players such as the 9100 or 9000. Anything Dan Wright has modded was already a good player--his mods just made it near state of the art. I have also swapped NOS Mullard GZ34 rectifier tube, Sophia Electric Blue 6SN7 tubes in it to further improve the sound. One can also add SR Orange or Blue fuses to do the same. Adding some of Krissy's magic also makes a significant difference. The Modwright players immediately show the improvement in SQ.
I picked up my first MW 9000 for $600 used, went to a 9100 later for a little more, and now have a 5400 fully loaded, with about all you can do with it. The sound is the best of analog and CD together. I WAS a digital hater until I heard the first MW player in my system. Now, it's just a matter of which format has a better recording. My analog setup sounds spectacular, and the digital is also great. My analog is much more expensive the the digital source. So for digital to be very close in sound is saying something.
Luxman D-03X. Plays standard redbook CD’s a treat with amazing detail retrieval, soundstage and dynamics. A touch of warmth, but not too much. It’s also the quietest player in operation I’ve owned. As good as the discontinued D-06U and not too pricey.
I use a CEC TL5 transport and DA5 DAC in my personal system. CEC makes on of the best belt drive transports on the market at a price point. I like the musicality of the CEC products the best. CEC transports only read RED Book and they do that extremely well.
Well....there is an article on this forum touting the new Project. CD box rsr ...( $ 6000) as being better than the Jay' s Audio CD ...( which is the one Steve Guttenburg uses)......personally, I have an onyko 7030....which I bought off of Craigslist for $100.00.....and it is good enough for me....( my system weighs in at about $1500.00)
To me it was worth getting a streamer that was equivalent to or better than my CD player. Then the amount of music available is nearly infinite at almost no cost. If you can find a CD with different files... you can always rip it. But I have found that there is increasingly more HiRez stuff available on Qubuz and Tidal. Also, when you have access to nearly infinite music you do more exploring and less listening to the same stuff. A CD player is a mechanical spinner, streamer, and DAC... or maybe no DAC. You don’t need to go as far as I have, with an Aurender W20SE streamer and Audio Research CD9SE (which I use as a DAC... no difference in Red Book CD versus streamed). Btw, I also have a Berkeley Alpha 3 DAC in my system at the moment and I prefer the ARC CD9SE as a DAC ever so slightly better than the Berkeley).
You have a very fine short-list of CD player choices. In this day and time, I would consult each company or their authorized repair center(s) for availibility for critical parts. Specifically, drive/optical blocks for future replacement. For me, this aspect of ownership is crucial.
I use an Oppo 203 player as a transport only, with the HDMI audio out port going to a black box from China (HDMI/MHL to IIS I2S HDMI IIS I2S Separate Extract Audio I2S/DSD/Optical/Coaxial). From there it goes to the I2S input of my Holo May dac. The black box costs about $50 and change and works very well. My sacd's play as DSD64 files on the dac. This way you can use one dac for streaming, tv, and cds. I think there is a thread on the PS Audio web site that goes into more detail. The sound quality between using the Oppo internal dac and the Holo is very large.
I would never buy any last cd player! I would buy a transport and a dac. Keep the moving parts units away from the dac. Also, no aes/ebu cable can even near a HDMI IS2 connection. So i would look at a dac and transports that use IS2. I have Nuprime EVO dac and CDT 8 Pro. But if i would try any new transports i would go for Jays Audio mk3 transport.
It's my understanding that the streaming master isn't always the same as the master used for the physical copy. I'm not sure how accurate this is but it is what I have been told. I have a friend that buys a lot of media, physical cd's, vinyl and also hi-res/flac files. He also streams from a couple sources and he swears there is a difference between the streaming version and his other versions of the same album in most cases. How detectable that difference is and which version will be preferred is debatable.
It is very detectable. I recently added a transport to my system (an old Linn Classik CD), purely as transport. I run the digital output through my streamer (Cambridge Audio Azur 851n), so both streams use the same DAC/amp/speaker chain. The CD-input consistently outperforms the 16/44 source material (from Qobuz in my example). Not so for remastered/hires digital source material. Your suggestion that there is difference in the streaming versus the physical master seems to make the most sense.
Whoever made the point about the mechanisms above was right. Whether your player will be your last one is solely dependent on whether it can be fixed when the mechanism dies - because at some point it will. Doesn't matter how expensive the gear is (and I have a brand of player where the manufacturer also makes the "we have extra mechanisms" claim - better hope they are still around when my CD tanks !). All of the suggestions above are reasonable - especially because there are so few decent CD products left on the market.
Check out the Esoteric K-01 or APL NWO-Master (a modified Esoteric UX-1Pi), or consider going the transport/DAC/clock route with an Esoteric P-01/D-01 Transport and DAC w/GORb Rubidium Clock combo.
I bought an Esoteric K03XD a couple of weeks ago, which I find absolutely amazing: very detailed but not harsh, three dimensional sound stage and very full bodied sound. Built like a tank; reassuringly hefty at 28kg. I think it may be my last cd player, but then, I have thought that before. Best of luck finding the right machine.
My 5 cents: I have a server with ripping built in (or external USB CD drive) and rip all CDs to the servers drive (SSD preferred). They will sound better than from any transport or Internet stream. Why is this so? The ripping process is not real time and gets all error correction as in computers in general. The reading from the drive is easier and has no mechanical problems ... besides general vibration on the electronics. And on the other hand the streaming suffers from real time and Internet drops and problems of your internal wiring or WLAN. My technical arguing might be wrong ... mathematician :) , but it is real results from my own setup. I do stream a lot via Roon / Qobuz just to find some music. If I like it enough and the recordings seems worth it, I buy it and download the files to the server and play them from there. It always sounds better than streamed directly from Qobuz. For my setup, please consult the "virtual system" on this site.
Second the Esoteric. K-03XD reviews are fantastic (I have not personally auditioned). Esoteric has confirmed that the K-05XD and K-07XD will be available later this year. One of those 2 will be my last CD player. They haven't released what prices will be, but probably in the $7K to $8.5K range.
If you want to save some money and buy used. The Meridian 506 in either the 20 bit or 24 bit. The 24 bit was an "upgrade", but I find myself listening more to the 20 bit unit. Closest sound I have heard to vinyl from a cd player. That said, I haven't gone into the $6k plus range.
I you want a CD player, that is a transport + DAC combo, I would recommend Esoteric K-01XD or K-03XD, depending on your budget. It will be your last CD player
Haven't read this whole thread, yet, but why CD Player? Why not CDT (CD Transport)? When or if my Marantz dies in my lifetime, I think I'd be much more inclined to go CDT, rather than CD, even if I have to buy a CDT and external DAC.
Be that as it may, although I haven't heard it, one CD Player that consistently gets outstanding reviews is the Bryston BCD-3. If you have SACDs, however, you might want to check out the Marantz SA-10, another unit that is consistently well reviewed.
IMO the best approach is cd transport only to external dac. Gives you the most flexibility for upgrades. When the tech changes you upgrade the dac and still maintain the current cd transport. You can even run a second dac just for cd’s. Say you want a tube dac for streaming but r2r for cd you can have that flexibility. I also think with an all in one the manufactures will make compromises to control cost unless you are playing in the 6,000 to 10,000 range.
Try listening to STAX QUATRO CD Player for an unmatched quality and clarity same applies to KINERGETICS GOLD w/ EM2100 Remote Receiver Unit KCD-20CD Player, they really dont make components like this anymore for a reasonable price point !!! You dont have to have Superman's ears to distinguish the difference in the quality of the output !!!
@sgreg1. “IMO the best approach is cd transport only to external dac. Gives you the most flexibility for upgrades. When the tech changes you upgrade the dac and still maintain the current cd transport.”
I agree. The DAC is the important component... and there is unlikely to be another CD Transport... streaming is taking over... much content is higher quality on streaming service and will only continue this direction. Manufacturers are discontinuing CD Transports. A file is a file, if on a CD, hard drive, or streaming service. CDs are not like vinyl.
Like that you agree and agree with all you added points. But i will decline to take the bait on vinyl being better. I will say yes and then as Sir knights said “run away run away”!
I am surprised no one has mentioned Ayre. I have the C-5xeMP and it is superb in my system. I also have an EVS moded Oppo BDP-105D which is very good. The Ayre is markedly better as a CD player, they are about the same on SACD. I have not heard Ayre's current offerings but I've never heard or seen any complain about any of their gear. Always rave reviews.
Oops! I just visited their website and can't see anything with a drawer. I guess it would have to be used.
I would suggest not to buy a player from a company who decided to stop supporting the medium, plenty of good choice out there from brand still in the game!
If your a music lover and your looking for a transport, C.E.C. is great !
There was just listed a Modwright Sony 5400 Signature Truth CD/SACD player with all the upgrades on usaudiomart. Very reasonable price. You will find NO better player on any of the websites. I have this player and the sound is better than you can even imagine. This was Dan Wright's best player modified. You had better look quick. There have been very few of these full blown modded Sony's appearing and definitely not at this price.
I tend to like MW players myself. Do you know why Dan does not stock extra critical parts for his creations? Perusing over his website, most models for mods, arte no longer offered? Seems to me this is not good customer relations.
MW stands behind their products even if you didn't buy from them. No company serves the customer better than MW. Dan is very concerned about how his brand is viewed and his service shows it. Dan replaced a 9100 that was causing me an issue in one channel occasionally with another unit, not the same unit, because the 9100 was no longer in production at MW, but with a 5400 at no extra charge because never had the problem show up in his system. He wanted me to be happy with his product even though I never bought one from him, but bought used. That is going WAY beyond what most any manufacturer would do. I'll be a MW CD player man for life. The 5400 Signature Truth was a brand new unit he sent me to replaced a well used 9100. The 5400 is obviously much better sounding along with being brand new. Who else does that for a customer that really never bought from him directly? Whether he attacks a part or not from an out of production unit, he will make it right like the HGTV show.
Thank You for the follow up. Good to read that Dan continues to service his older "mods". I had wanted his edition of the Marantz 8005, but, the particulars have been discontinued? Perhaps he has these parts available off-line, does not advertise?
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