Marty Stuart on Tom Petty & The Heartbreakers:

I probably should have said failed relationship hook !!!

Spend any amount of time in LA ( I commuted via jet into and out of LAX for wayyy 2 many years )
and you will realize the lyrical genius of Free Falln’

@zerofox:
"That said, I think what makes him and the Heartbreakers special is that they are simply a pure rock and roll band and most importantly they didn’t try to do too much - just well executed rock and roll".

This strikes me as a fair/accurate assessment. There's nothing wrong with playing to your strengths and that's what they did. 

I'm 65.  "Break Down" didn't come out until I was out of HS and beginning to explore Jazz.  Therefore, I probably wasn't as open to TP as I would've been, had I been a few years younger when they came onto the scene. 

@zerofox: Petty was great on that Shandling episode! (I miss Gary a lot) Tom's a not bad actor. I loved when he referred to fellow-guest Clint Black as Roy Rogers. ;-)

I am a big Petty fan. I wasn’t an early fan due to my age, but I jumped on when I was in high school - around the Full Moon Fever time. That said, I think what makes him and the Heartbreakers special is that they are simply a pure rock and roll band and most importantly they didn’t try to do too much - just well executed rock and roll. Someone above said they are simple songs and I would agree and view that as a compliment.

Also I think the Heartbreakers are underrated.

We talk about synergy when we talk about our audio systems. I think that also applies to TPHB.

Greatest rock and roll band every produced by the U.S. - I don’t know. Maybe, maybe not. Who cares he left his mark.

This is a great video of him with Garry Shandling. The only bad thing about this video is watching him chain smoke and knowing that it likely contributed to his passing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIvNe569Q9g

Petty is for sure in my top 5.

also, TP hosted a radio show called Buried Treasure on XM that i thought well expressed his love for other artists, rare vinyl, etc… 

what a lovely thread this turned into….

one thing about Tom is he had a way with what I call the relationship hook…

Don't Do Me like that…

Lots of great bands, Feat a fave of mine….

EJ, speaking of top ten, what are they ? Bring them when you visit. “ I know a little place outside of town, they just might have some wine”..

@marantz33;

"Love and respect to nearly every band mentioned here but just one listen to waiting for Columbus should put this issue to bed"

Just curious: did you ever hear Los Lobos in their prime, live ? ? ? 
I'm a fan of WFC but Los Lobos were every bit as great when I saw them... 

@bdp24. I appreciate your vast knowledge of music/bands.  A previous thread you contributed to caused me to listen to Buddy Miller, rhonda Vincent and many Others.  Marty Stuart is a very good band.  Recently listened to early Joni Mitchell.  Great minimalist recordings and superlative song writing.  Thank you and lucky to have streaming or would never heard this.  Favorite Tom Petty song is Breakdown.  Now i will explore Los Lobos. 

Love and respect to nearly every band mentioned here but just one listen to waiting for Columbus should put this issue to bed.

Brunswick is the only town I know of named after a bowling ball.

Petty wrote amazing simple songs that just worked and the Heartbreakers were great. But best band? As Zappa said (about guitar players, but still...), "It's not a pushup contest." I was and still am a The Band fan, and when they were past their prime I (and lots of fellow musicians I knew in the 70s) sort of transferred my "fave" label to Little Feat as a live act for sure, as Lowell George was astonishing as an all around singer-producer-guitar player...Steely Dan were amazing but they toured rarely back then, and sort of weren't a band per se after a few albums...Los Lobos kill me, and certainly deserve props as a great American band.

stuartk

nice mention on "Will The Wolf Survive?"

Happy Listening!

CCR. Van Morrison. Fleetwood Mac.

That's Brunswick, Maine... down the road from Freeport. 

@bdp24:

"And Los Lobos: Also in the mid-80’s I went to see Peter Case’s pre-solo career group The Plimsouls at a tiny "club" on Ventura Blvd. named The Garage (it was an actual garage, a converted car repair shop). My gal and I got there in time to hear the opening act---whose name was unfamiliar to me---start their set. As soon as they did. she and I looked at each other in utter disbelief, our mouths agape. They were INCREDIBLE! It was of course Los Lobos, of whom I became an instant fan"


I saw Los Lobos on their "Will the Wolf Survive" tour at Bowdoin College in Brunswick. What particularly shocked me was what great Blues players Rosas and Hidalgo were. 

Ummm, look it has validity and don’t get me wrong, I was a massive early days supporter of Tom and the band, so early that I saw them play to 200 people audiences and personally met the band a few times along the way. Ironically, they were probably even better early days than they were 10 years later. Don’t get me wrong they were never positioned as some super group, but thankfully they did ultimately receive the audience they always deserved. Tom was as prolific as anyone on the songwriting side. The band is clearly missing their fearless leader. Best ever? Certainly near the top, but I think as a contemporary of the era, Springsteen and E Street probably cross the line before Tom. That does not diminish my love for Petty & Co.  

@onhwy61: The Blasters---now we’re talkin’! I saw them live many times, including in the mid-80’s when they backed Big Joe Turner on his last appearance in L.A., at Club Lingerie on Sunset Blvd.. Little Richard’s tenor sax man Lee Allen was in the band then, as was of course Blasters lead guitarist and songwriter Dave Alvin. The last time I saw them was in 2003, at an outdoor Rockabilly festival held in SoCal , complete with a Vintage Car show. Lots of pompadours (on the guys), short bangs (on the gals)---Rockabilly chicks are SO hot ;-) , tats, piercings, and cuffed jeans were plentiful amongst the audience members. I performed on a smaller stage in an instrumental trio at that show prior to The Blasters set.

And Los Lobos: Also in the mid-80’s I went to see Peter Case’s pre-solo career group The Plimsouls at a tiny "club" on Ventura Blvd. named The Garage (it was an actual garage, a converted car repair shop). My gal and I got there in time to hear the opening act---whose name was unfamiliar to me---start their set. As soon as they did. she and I looked at each other in utter disbelief, our mouths agape. They were INCREDIBLE! It was of course Los Lobos, of whom I became an instant fan. By the way, their upcoming new album---due out shortly---is a tribute to THEIR roots. Can’t wait to hear it!

Speaking of a roots-tribute album: The Band’s 1973 album Moondog Matinee is comprised of recordings of songs they had performed in their early-60’s live shows, when they were named The Hawks. An "oldies" album unlike any you’ve heard before or since. Even after becoming The Band, they continued to perform Little Richard’s "Slippin’ And Slidin’’’ and Marvin Gaye’s "Baby Don’t Do It" (an incredible version opens their great live album Rock Of Ages) in their live shows. Can you picture Tom Petty singing either of those songs? ;-)

But hey, a favorite artist of mine---Lucinda Williams---thinks highly enough of Petty to record an album of his songs.

... and of course, there have always been players who've had a more scholarly/musicological bent--  Bloomfield and Garcia, for example. 

I've seen R. Ford a half dozen times. The only time I saw J. Mitchell was when I lived in Santa Barbara-- I saw the show with Metheny, Brecker, et al that was released as "Shadows and Light". Never saw Albert but saw Freddie and BB. Saw the Dead just a few times-- '73, '74, '77, '78 and a couple times in the eighties in Maine (don't recall the years). I was fortunate that Santa Barbara in the mid-70's was a paradise for live music. Everything from Leo Kotke to Ravi Shankar to Otis Rush to Oregon to Les McCann, Return to Forever, Bonnie Raitt, Santana, Bill Evans (the piano player), Jean Luc Ponty, Pat Metheny, Emmy Lou Harris. . . the list goes on and on. 

I'm not familiar with D. Twilley's music. I was born in '56 and when I think of "50's music" I tend to think of Sha Na Na type stuff. 

Can't say I'm a big Tom Petty fan, but the man and the band are extremely well respected by other musicians.  They have contributed to a wide range of other artists' recordings.  Additionally, longevity (or should I say survival) at the top of the rock heap is not to be underrated.  Petty and the Heartbreakers did that for three decades.  I prefer the Blasters, Little Feat, Parliment/Funkadelics or Los Lobos, but that's just my personal taste.

One thing that caught me interest in Petty as a person was the whole "Southern Accents" record and tour.  It was a quasi-concept album about Petty's vision of the South.  The tour prominently featured the Confederate battle flag and people coming to his concerts wore it, displayed it and waved it too.  Petty later came to regret his use of the flag and then actually asked his fans to not bring it to his concerts.  Here's a link to an article about this.

@bdp24:

Wow-- you were certainly in the right place at the right time!

I grew up in NY state and Woodstock was close by, but I was just a little too young (in jr. H. S.) at the time. 

The father of one of my classmates was an MD and he had the disctinction of treating Henmdrix for something (don't recall what) before his performance.

You make an excellent point about the generation gap-- that explains  a lot. 

Agree @stuartk. It just occurred to me that another element to remember is that The Band are actually from a generation before Petty and his guys---The Band of the 50’s, Petty of the 60’s. That was one reason Petty seemed out of place to me in The Travelling Wilburys; Tom seemed like a kid in a group of adults.

By the time of Petty’s debut, I had already followed the musical path back to the origins of what lead to Rock ’n’ Roll: The Carter Family in Hillbilly---onward to Hank Williams and the other late-40’s/early-50’s Hillbilly singers (including Lefty Frizzell, whose "Long Black Veil" The Band included on Music From Big Pink), and the Jump Blues of the 40’s and early-50’s (Joe Turner, Louis Jordan, Big Jay McNeely), from which Elvis "borrowed" much of his early sound and style.

And you’re right---The Band’s music reveals all those influences, and more. Petty & THB sound like they had heard nothing before The British Invasion---very shallow roots. I don’t know what it was like in Florida (Petty’s stomping grounds), but in the Bay Area (mine), Roots music was what all serious musicians were diving into.

Jerry Garcia was playing Bluegrass in Palo Alto (just a few miles north on the El Camino Real from my hometown of Cupertino) before forming a Rock band, his future-buddy David Grisman doing the same in Mill Valley (across the bay from San Francisco). In the early-70’s we had Dan Hicks & His Hot Licks, Commander Cody & His Lost Planet Airmen, Asleep At The Wheel, The Electric Flag (with Mike Bloomfield), Charlie Musselwhite (with the great Robben Ford on guitar. He later worked with Joni Mitchell, Miles Davis, and George Harrison, and was in The Yellowjackets. Damn!), Maria Muldaur, and so many more superior artists.

After hearing all them live in clubs and on record (plus all the bands and artists Bill Graham brought into The Fillmore Auditorium and Winterland---Albert King and other such masters), Petty seemed like a light-weight! Yet, to me, Twilley doesn’t. He has a distinct-1950’s influence evident in his music that is absent in Petty’s. Perhaps it’s just that I’m more fond of 50’s music, Petty of 60’s.

@roxy54:

Thanks for your kind words. In retrospect, I believe I presented the differences in too much of a black-and-white fashion.  After all, every songwriter has to have a "journalistic" eye for detail as well as a sense of how the present moment relates to larger themes. This doesn't mean I've changed my mind about my basic premise, though. 

@bdp24:

Thanks for the positive affirmation. Although I personally prefer the Band's music to T. Petty's, I've never really thought very deeply about why that might be. I'd tend to agree that The Band's traditional influences were much more evident-- whether this means that T. Petty lacked such a foundation, I cannot say. T. Petty pretty much sounds to me like a Rock guy, through and through, whereas The Band sound like many older styles mixed up and fltered through a Country/Blues/Jazz sensibility. They sound like they have very deep roots that go way back before Rock-- perhaps this is my way of expressing something akin to your comments about T. Petty being "less substantial".  

Like anyone else, I have my prejudices and they no doubt prevent me from appreciating aspects of T. Petty that might be obvious to his fans. I've never owned any T. Petty albums but The Band's "brown album" has been a steady companion since the mid 70's, so I'm far from objective!

Excellent insights into the lyrics of J.R. Robertson, @stuartk!

Speaking of the American aspect: One reason I hold The Band in much higher regard than TP & THB is because of the depth of their musical roots. Organist Garth Hudson is a profound musician with an encyclopedic knowledge and appreciation of American Jazz and European Classical musics. Drummer/singer Levon Helm is deeply rooted in Blues and Hillbilly, having grown up listening to both musics on the radio in Arkansas. His first pro gig was as drummer in 50's Rockabilly singer Ronnie Hawkins band (the source of course for The Band's first name, The Hawks.)---Robertson's too. Bassist/singer Rick Danko loved traditional Country/Hillbilly, hearing it on The Grand Old Opry way up in Canada. Pianist/singer Richard Manuel had one of the greatest voices in the entire history of Rock 'n' Roll, deeply influenced by Ray Charles, Bobby Bland, and the other 50's black singers.

Not to downplay the talents of TP & THB, but to me they sound far less "substantial". They sound like a "suburban" group to me---the sound of which I am very familiar, if you know what I mean. Individually, they are rather ordinary. Pianist Benmont Tench has almost no style, nothing that makes his playing special .Reminds me of Paul Shaffer ;-) . The bassist and drummer, although sufficient, again: no distinctive style, no personality. Guitarist Mike Campbell is not bad, though I don't much care for his tone (too "thick", too distorted.). And Tom? I really don't like his voice, and the way he writes his songs in keys which require him to strain to reach the highest notes in the song melodies. And he sounds entirely too "white" for my tastes; not much soul or depth.

But that's just me. Sorry for sounding so negative, it's all good. I would say there is no bad music, but then there's Black Sabbath. ;-)

stuartk,
I think that your view of these two bands is very interesting and thought provoking. I never thought of it in that way, but reading your words, I have to agree.

@bdp24:

" Both The Band and Tom Petty & The Heartbreakers toured with Dylan, and live recordings of some shows were released on albums. Compare the two. Both bands are playing similar music, in some cases the same songs. Which band do you think is "better"? Feel free to answer below."

I'd argue that these two bands had quite different perspectives. 

Tom Petty was very journalistic-- he reported on his direct experience of the nitty gritty school of hard knocks. He reported from deep within the belly of the beast and was able to make the listener feel they werer right there with him. He was a great, visceral  communicator of what was happening in the moment.

By contrast, as I see it, The Band viewed American culture as if from a mountain top and they seemed more interested in what might be termed a mythical dimension of America. Robbie Robertson's lyrics have more of the sense of a great novelist who creates and manipulates characters. It strikes me as a more "literary" approach. To what degree this might've been influenced by the fact he's Canadian is a question I'll leave for the more erudite to debate. 

My 2 cents...

Even though he isn't a showboat, Marty Stuart knows his way around a Telecaster and mandolin.

I remember a friend really into Tom Petty when he was still playing the local LA clubs-1976? Always reminding me to see him next show. Saw them on the "You're Gonna Get It" tour 1978, also my favorite TP album.

IMO, TP & the HB's were on the top of their game first 4-5 albums. I lost interest after "Damn the Torpedoes."

"The BEST?"  Marty Stuart must have some secret LP's that were never released to the general public.

@bdp24:

"I know when I make my own statements (as apposed to Marty making his), I should use the term "my favorite" instead of "the best". But to tell you the truth, I choose to do that for a reason: I do it when I feel to do so is the only way I can make the point I am trying to make as dramatically as possible"

Well, OK-- at least you're aware of what you're doing. But there is so much hyperbole tossed around online and so many posters actually seem to believe that 1) if they like something it must therefore be "great" and 2) that art is a competition, like sports, that whenever I see such language used, I automatically assume the poster is just another aesthetically naive individual and move on. Others will no doubt respond differently.  

@roxy54:  

"...this is America, and in the USA, everything must be a contest, and there MUST be a number 1, a winner. That's probably one of the most unattractive things about American culture..."

So true, unfortunately and the stubborn persistence of this cultural attitude is evidenced by the "Best Of" category in this very forum!

As to Marty Stuart's assertion, well, that's a matter of taste.  If one is going to hold up Tom Petty, then why not J. C. Mellancamp?  Seems to me, JCM is every bit as good a songwriter as TP.  And it seems to me that it could be argued that neither is a better songwriter than Springsteen. 

For the record, none of them are favorites of mine. I don't have a horse in this race. My point is that I don't see, from a critical standpoint, how M. Stuart's assertion holds up, except as an expression of his admiration for T. Petty. 

... which brings us ful circle, back to the tendency for us to automatically conflate what we like with what is "good"...

Yeah @fuzztone, and NRBQ live are just incredible. Terry Adams’ piano and clavinet playing on stage, as well as Al Anderson’s guitar playing and Joey Spampinato’s bass playing (Keith Richard’s choice as Bill Wyman’s replacement in The Stones. Joey turned him down, choosing to remain in the true greatest Rock ’n’ Roll band in the world ;-) is about as amazing as any musician I’ve ever seen, and I saw Hendrix twice ;-) .

And then there’s the songs; Anderson left the band to concentrate full time on songwriting, relocating to Nashville. NRBQ have gone through three line-ups over their long history---dating back to 1968! (Terry Adams being the sole constant), and have made a LOT of albums. I have ’em all.

NRBQ more musical and entertaining, that’s all.
Oh yeah, more output, longer track record and better songs.
They and the Isley's are America's bands.

My girlfriend back in college (in the 1970s) used to say of some album  she was into at any given moment: "They are the best band in the world -- like so many other bands, of course."

Marty can be effusive in his praise of other artists. 

I remember seeing him introduce Steve Earle on one of Marty's shows.  Steve was just over his heroin addiction and had put on a LOT of weight.  He was huge (not important but it was just a shock to me).  Marty went on and on requesting a warm reception for his good friend Steve, repeating several times that Steve was a close friend of his.  Steve just stood there with his pants hanging about halfway down his butt looking at Marty like he was nuts.  I assume that was because he and Marty were probably not good friends and maybe had never met before the show. 

It was just a funny moment to me but it does illustrate the point that Marty can get a little carried away in his praise of other musicians and that may be what happened with Tom Petty.  Naming his own band The Fabulous Superlatives is another example.

We all know that there is no one best band, but we all have probably used the term at one time or another.

I know when I make my own statements (as apposed to Marty making his), I should use the term "my favorite" instead of "the best". But to tell you the truth, I choose to do that for a reason: I do it when I feel to do so is the only way I can make the point I am trying to make as dramatically as possible. Often because I am attempting to help others appreciate about an artist/band that which has so far eluded them. Artists/bands whom, I believe, deserve more appreciation (and, okay, success) than they have enjoyed.

When I see The Rolling Stones routinely referred to as "The Greatest Rock ’n’ Roll Band In The World" (a phrase created, by the way, by their publicist!), repeated mindlessly simply because it’s the "common wisdom", I see red. I’ve seen The Stones live, and they were terr-i-ble.

I saw Tom and his band live, and to my tastes they were kind of pedestrian, like a hometown band whose members you know. Nothing special at all. But then I’ve seen a lot of really, really great bands and solo artists, and have rather high standards (if I do say so myself ;-) . Marty does too, and I have no idea why he holds TP & THB in such high regard. But when I don’t understand something, I consider that a failing on my part.

Now Marty Stuart And His Fabulous Superlatives: THERE is a great band! NRBQ’s live shows are legendary, and deservedly so. Awesome! Dave Edmunds, my ex’s (26 years together) favorite live show of all-time. Rockpile (Dave Edmunds, Nick Lowe, Billy Bremner, Terry Williams)---the greatest Super Group of them all (oops, there I go again). Of course Edmunds and Rockpile are from the UK, so are ineligible for Marty’s list. ;-)

Another pertinent comparison: I heard the debut album by The Dwight Twilley Band (Sincerely), and was flabbergasted! What a great, great album, instantly in my all-time Top 10. I then saw them on a coupla TV shows, lip-syncing to a recording. Interestingly, Tom Petty, whose own debut had just had been released, was "playing" bass in the band (the original Twilley band had no permanent bassist). I bought the Petty album, and was, frankly, rather underwhelmed. The second I liked even less.

Yet Petty & THB developed into major Rock Stars, and Twilley, after one solo hit ("Girls", I think) after drummer/singer Phil Seymour left the group, faded into obscurity. For those who like Tom Campbell’s guitar playing, give a listen to Bill Pitcock IV on Sincerely (and it’s follow-up, Twilley Don’t Mind). No comparison. For you guitarists: except for Ry Cooder, the greatest tone I’ve heard live was that of Pitcock. A Gibson ES335 plugged into a pair of blackface Deluxe Reverb’s, an MXR digital delay in line between the two amps. Rock ’n’ Roll, baby!

But what makes a band great? Here’s another interesting and instructive comparison: Both The Band and Tom Petty & The Heartbreakers toured with Dylan, and live recordings of some shows were released on albums. Compare the two. Both bands are playing similar music, in some cases the same songs. Which band do you think is "better"? Feel free to answer below. ;-)

bdp24

Another excellent thread. Certainly, the 70s-80s were good to Tom Petty.
An excellent backing band to boot centered around Stan Lynch, IMO.

Happy Listening!

Marty Stuart And His Fabulous Superlatives - Souls' Chapel is an amazing album.  I've only heard it digital but that will probably change soon.

Best band in the world .... ahhhh spectacular harmonies a great listen but "best in the world"  I'm not convinced.  I don't really have an alternative suggestion so I'll let you have it until I can think of one.  

bdp24,
I've seen from your posts in the past that you seem to place a lot of weight on the musical opinions of other famous musicians. To me, no matter who they are, it is still just another person with their personal preference. There is no 'BEST" band, only our personal favorites who make the music that resonates with us most profoundly and gives us joy or makes us feel.
That said, this is America, and in the USA, everything must be a contest, and there MUST be a number 1, a winner. That's probably one of the most unattractive things about American culture, even though I think that overall it's pretty great.
When Tom Petty first came on the scene with Damn the Torpedoes, I really liked him. As his style matured, I started to like him less and I lost interest, although I have a lot of respect for the way Mike Campbell plays guitar. Overall, to me they were a good band, certainly musically competent, with some memorable songs, but I wouldn't personally consider them to be "great".  

If I had to pick only one of those bands entire body of work to listen I would go with Los Lobos for the total package including a nice pinch of diversity. 

I know the Band were groundbreakers but just not that interesting anymore to me.
TP&THs had their moments and a really good lead guitarist but I can only handle so much of them at a time. Full Moon Fever is a great album.

NRBQ rocks. Really fun band. 

Good enough for Bob but not your ego. I am with Bob.

So the band became The Band. I see. So it was form over substance from the beginning then.

The Hawks became…The Band

For sure better than those ones you mentioned. Geez. I have to think you were deliberately trying to be funny. Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers all by itself eclipses the entire body of work of those other, who were they again? lol!