Magnepan, Ohm, Spatial or ??

Ozzy, I agree!

LOL.  

You are ignoring Spatial Audio at your own peril.........

Just talked to Ohm again.  They say probably 2-3 months now. I may do what I mentioned above: order the Ohm and Vandy and compare in 2-3 months. 

Now to pick some reasonably priced speaker wire.  :-)

Yeah I know waiting is no fun.

Microwalsh do come up used on occasion if you keep an eye out.   They are small and easy to ship so there is maybe that.  1000s or older 100s are just a tad larger.

Thanks for suggestion.  

I'd really like to try and Ohms and compare with Vandy but Ohms are 4-5 months out.  I guess I could buy them and wait until they are in and then order the Vandy's right before they arrive to compare.  BUT I HATE WAITING.  :-) 

Amp is Jolida 1501 Hybrid (tube pre).  
Source is Flac through Roon, Topping D70.

They are Onix Rocket RS750 Sig.

https://www.soundandvision.com/content/rocket-loudspeakers-onix-rs750-rsc200-rs250-and-rss300-loudspeakers

No corners will deliver more bass so that is right.

Those speakers (what are they?) appear more directional/forward firing so soundstage and imaging might work OK there.

It is always a tradeoff....walls/corners deliver more bass but early reflections kill soundstage and imaging. For the best of both, speakers must be somewhat away from walls (how much varies by design based on dispersion pattern) and deliver proper bass levels there.  Using a separate, adjustable  powered sub with crossover to handle the lower octaves provides flexibility.

I can definitely move the speakers into the room.  I have the current speakers in the corner because I was trying to increase the bass (was that wrong?).  

So, it sounds like the group is leaning more towards Ohms vs. Vandersteens? :-) 

Will the new speakers have to be in the same corner location?


Corner placement like that provides a big bass boost so keep that in mind.

Also early reflections work against soundstage and imaging when speakers are very close to walls.

So you have a double whammy with the current speaker placement

Often when placement options are constrained, less can be be more.

In that room, with very close to corner placement, in the Ohm Line, I would keep it small, along the lines of Microwalsh. If needed add a sub later. That gives you some flexibility in adjusting the bass levels.

Neither Ohms, Vandys, Maggies or Spatial are designed to go directly in corners. Other more conventional and more forward firing directional designs would frankly work better. Best thing would be to have the discussion about your room with John Strohbeen if you have not had that already.

If you can go out just a another foot or two or three into the room then that opens up more options.

The Ohms can work well with only a foot or so to walls, so some space from corners/walls is needed but not a lot.

I have never seen Vandersteens set up near corners, usually more towards the center of rooms/walls, so you might want to check that.

Maggies will be very compromised that close to rear wall though side walls matter less.

Spatial not sure about those either in corners....

Another good option might be just smaller monitor speakers on short isolating stands like Isoacoustics, similar to the Vanatoo setup in my wife’s sunroom (less is more in that room as well due to lively acoustics and limitations in placement). That would be very inobstrusive and provide more flexibility in placement perhaps. Also add a sub in this case afterwards perhaps but only if needed.

If you get to the Audio Connection in NJ they carry both Maggie's and Vandy's I'm sure Johnny will give you an awesome demo.

With that room I would get Ohms and forget it. Measure the cubic feet and get the right speaker. If the bass is a little weak or to much  for your tastes there is a switch behind the binding cups you can adjust.

Here is the room:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/Sz9oaHmHUxrK2wat5

Not familiar with those Vandy models but have heard Treos I believe it was in a much larger room in a mid room setup and liked those very much.

Matching speakers to room especially bass levels is important. You can always add more bass via subs if needed but too much is harder to deal with.

Soundscape in Baltimore is a dealer I am familiar with that has sold Vandersteen for many years. I believe they sold Ohm Walsh prior as well I was told back in the 80s prior to direct sales only when Ohm was still sold through an independent dealer network that went under largely and almost took ohm with them.


You might give them a ring and see what they may offer. I see several Vandy models on their sale website page.

ok, I thought your room was 10x13. You should be ok then.

I was wondering about the room size (19x13x8) and 2ce.

Right now, with the Onix RS750s, I don't have much bass at all in this room.  Was thinking the 2Ce would fix that..... 

I may be in the minority here but I strongly prefered the Vandy 1ci over the 2ce in two rooms in my house that are similar in size as yours. I made the mistake of thinking bigger is bettter. I suspect if you go with the 2's, the bass will quickly overload your room.

I also agree with the recommendation to take a road trip. If you come to NJ you can demo both the Vandy's at Audio Connection in Verona, NJ and the Ohms in Brooklyn, NY. 

You will learn a lot in the process and be in a much better postion to gauge what you want. 

Good luck!

soundchasr, good listening with the Vandys'.

Hope they fullfill your desires...*S*👍

Regards and best, J

I’m ready to try/buy a pair of Vandersteen 2Ce Sig. III.
Only place I can find them is MusicDirect and the only color is mahogany. Go for it?

Or get the Signature II? Don't know anything about the upgrades to the III.

Color preference? Can't tell much from my monitor. 

At the XFI Premium show in Holland last year I heard Spatial sounding good and also PAP (pureaudioproject)  I spoke to the owner/designer Ze'ev from Israel at length. He produces a 2-way open baffle design with the ability to swap the high frequency module.

I see he now builds a smaller unit compared to the D'apollito style he started with. Of course these, Spatial and PAP, were in different rooms with different electronics so I can't say which I preferred except to say both were very good. PAP will also provide drivers for the DIYers out there.

https://www.pureaudioproject.com/
https://audioxpress.com/article/fresh-from-the-bench-meet-the-pureaudioproject-trio15-heil-amt-speak...

That's good.  I have a speaker in transit that might be your ticket.  So be patient for one week and I'll get back to you.

Yes, keep the dog. *S*  They generally have better taste then their 'umans.  If they sleep through a session, that's good.
If they 'lift leg' (Sunny, our f/m, can do both...a real 'switch hitter'), then lose the speakers...*L*

Her 'aim' is remarkably accurate, BTW....;)

@corwlli Yep.  I can move the chair. 

"I feel like I need to sh*t or get off the pot, as they say. Right now here’s where I am (and this could change any minute...): "

I suggest you have a really long hemorrhoid inducing BM.  Don't make a decision out of impatience. 

Here's a question.  Can you get rid of that big black thing??  (the chair, not the nice dog)

@twoch  Which one is which?

3 total different things
  one sticks out from back wall and likes Jazz more so then rock. two , a speaker that works for rock and jazz but needs to be away from back wall 3 feet. Three , one can be placed up against a wall

"...analysis paralysis...."  *L*  Considering your stated options, not a big surprise there. ;)  Speakers (especially) can be like a 'step down' from a spouse/SO....you're going to have to like with them for an extended period of time, and you'd prefer for it to be 'pleasant'...at least. *G*

Summer is the typ time for vacations, large or small.  You might consider a road trip or 2....what my SO & I like to call 'overnight speed tours'. Enjoy what the locale has to offer, as well as a demo date.  Cue up for a pair of Ohms in the meanwhile, and make them the 'last stop' that you don't have to go to...

Unfortunately, speakers aren't like socks.  But, on the other hand, if you knew Exactly what you wanted, you'd be there already. ;)

There's already too many 'tales of woe' over selections made in haste.

Have a pleasant weekend anyway....;)

3 total different things 
  one sticks out from back wall and likes Jazz more so then rock.  two , a speaker that works for rock and jazz but needs to be away from back wall  3 feet.  Three , one can be placed up against a wall 

I'd just like to thank everyone on this thread for their informative contributions. Ohmm Walsh were unknown to me before this.

I have a love of dipoles and recently made inquiries about buying Spatial speakers in the UK, regrettably there's no distribution here as of last time i checked.
Previously I've owned Alon OB speakers, and still have a modded pair of Alon IV's as backups to my Focals. My only reservation about my Stellas is their comparitive uni-directionality,  but they do have far better power handling and therefore room-filling presence than any OB speaker I've owned or heard so far. But i am certain my next speakers will be dipoles or omni directional. 
Currently I'm very intruiged by the new Bayz Audio Counterpoint and Courante

@soundchasr - The Larsens may be "funny looking" but they have some advantages:
1- they can (have to be) placed right against the wall so placement issues are n/a
2- they have high WAF. I had Larsen 4s, 6s, and 8s in the living room at various times. My wife said they looked like plant stands (a good thing)

Downside: they are not really efficient enough for tubes, unless you use largish PP amps.

I'm a former Larsen dealer and John Larsen is a great guy, interested in good sound and high value for the money. Even though I my preference is for Shahinian Obelisks in my room and with my music I would own a pair of Larsens again in a heartbeat.

I will add that my Spatial X3s are some of the best speakers I have heard in my home or anywhere else for that matter. I don't have any experience with any of the other spatial models, so I can't speak to that. But if either of the Sapphires are close to what I hear, you should really strongly consider them.

Oz

Many Spatial threads over on AudioCircle, where Spatial is a significant presence.  They definitely have some kind of try-at-home deal.

I have never owned a Vandersteen speaker but I am very familiar with them. Way back an old customer/friend of mine opened a small audio outlet and stocked the Vandy range, his biggest sellers. He often called me to deliver and install speakers he sold so I got to hear and compare many. He also stocked Martin Logan, Eggleston Works and Vivid (which are built in South Africa where I was born and lived most of my life) Vivid are great but their entry level is in a higher price bracket than the entry level Vandies.

The Vandersteen model 1 or 2 are outstanding value. They are open and easy, they image well and also able to crank if provided with ample clean power, though will also perform with a push-pull valve amp. Just lovely with a pair of Quicksilver monos.

Some of the speakers that were traded in were 2 or 3 times the price of the Vandies that replaced them.

If I didn't design and build speakers I would definitely consider a pair for myself. So very highly recommended.

I feel like I need to sh*t or get off the pot, as they say. Right now here’s where I am (and this could change any minute...):

>Spatial M5 Sapphire
- no way for me to demo yet, don’t know about return policy - they never responded. Lots of good feedback about them.

>Vandersteen Model 2Ce Signature III
-Can order from Music Direct and they have a pretty liberal return policy. Sounds (no pun) like a very popular speaker with a lot of people.

>Ohm Walsh 2000
-4-5 month wait time with decent return period Great feedback and looks good on paper.

A friend of mine had the Wharfedale Jade 7 tower speaker a few years ago. The only way I could describe the sound is "odd". Music never seemed right coming out of that speaker, almost a phasey quality. He didn't keep them long.

Oz

Any love here for the Wharfedale 4.4?

 I had 3.5rs and when I would play dynamic hard rock, I’d blow a fuse every time. I also blew two different tweeters with the fuses in place. After the second tweeter replacement it was time to move on. Very good sounding speakers, but not much midbass punch and severely lacking dynamics. I’m sure Maggies have gotten better since then.

Truth be told, I liked my 1.6s with modified xovers better than the bigger boys.

Oz

soundchasr, paralysis? Nah, no way. This is fun! Right?

Remember, the goal is to find THE ONE, the "perfect" speaker. All the others are NOT THE ONE. If you fail, you will have misery forever - or until starting the process again. Hehehehe…. ;)

(reminiscing, I recall all the wasted energy and effort to isolate the One. Ridiculous, now in retrospect.)

I should offer, in sincerity, that if you have a question regarding any of the speakers I have reviewed for Dagogo.com, feel free to ask. 

I've owned Spatial M4 Turbos, Ohm 2000s, and Vandersteen 1Cis over the years. I loved the Spatials – amazing soundstage depth and ease – but they had a relatively small sweet spot and really needed some air around them to sound their best...I can't speak to the newer Spatial models and what they have done with their new drivers that might ameliorate those "issues." The Ohms provide wonderful, room-filling sound, but IMO they beg to be opened up volume-wise...probably not an issue for you, but it was for me in an NYC apartment (which is why I replaced them with the Spatials, which do great at low volume). The Vandys may have been my favorite of the bunch...zero listening fatigue, spacious sound, surprising bass extension...they just sound "right" – at least when they were paired with a Belles Aria integrated (can't speak to other combos). They just sound meaty and solid to my ears. They're not as fussy as either of the other two re: placement, and are easier to drive than the Ohms. They'll leave some room for your Dane, too. ;) 

I have a pair of magnepan 3.5r in room 13'x17' and they sound amazing. Very open sound with nice deep bass. I'm using a Krell FPB-600.

I owned maggie 1.7i's and went to Spatial X5's.  That AMT driver in the X series is phenomenal.  And Maggies are a pain to drive.  I will tell you this....I haven't owned a box speaker in 30 years.

I gave my son a pair of Magnepan MMG's which he uses in a small room in his apartment in NYC.  They sound fine.  Go with the Maggies.  

@bigman 

Those Larsens are .... funny looking. :-) Interesting though. Time to do more research. 

I think I'm going into the analysis paralysis stage.  

I see another vote for Vandersteen...

This would be so much easier if we could just demo the things! 

@asvjerry  "Dale Harder opined that my cones were too heavy, which I readily agreed to.  The originals were 5 mil litho aluminum, which I got a sleeve of 100 sheets gratis from a friend 2 decades ago. Since I've moved on to 2 mil alum and titanium. The tweets are 1 mil alum, and a PIA to form; look at it hard, and it creases...

Dale ( http://www.hhr-exoticspeakers.com/HHRhome.htm  ) does the closest thing to the original Ohms that I (and likely anyone else) does...

The prices are what I would call reasonable for owning any of his units.
His 'normal gig' is owning a company that (I believe) makes laser equipment....HHR ES is his labor of love, and it shows. *S*

I've never had the chance to hear them. He 'does' shows occasionally, but likely only those that happen to be nearby."

I sometimes think if everyone heard Dale Harder's Ohm F reproductions, this forum wouldnt exist. Everyone would just own them. My good friend has a pair of his TLS-1's. Just truly remakable instruments. 

@soundchasr
I heard the Spatial Sapphire M3s and was amazed with the sound quality for a speaker that costs under $5k.  I know it's a bit higher than your budget but you also won't need an amp with lots of power as you might need with the Maggie 1.7s.  You may also find that you don't need a sub-woofer with the Spatials.

The Larsen 6.2 is a speaker that gives you all of the things you want+ other attributes that you don’t get from any other speaker in the market.

There is a new version of the vandy 2ce Sig ii avail so may be able to get a very good deal on the existing version - your room doesn’t call for the three, 

PS monitors on stands not the worst idea either 
lots options there including the vandy w the Concentric CT tweeter, Falcons etc