Other than Horns of course. A few days ago on another audio forum, someone mentioned *why don't you ck out Magnepan??** I wrote back, seems magnepan is OOB. He was a bit upset at my lack on reserach. SEems Magnepan is still alive and well. In fact there may bea back log for the LRS Like months back order Man , not sure why NO ONE here mentioned magnepan's??? Could this be the speaker I've been searching for some 20 years now?? Sure sensitivity is wayyy off my 92db sens limit. @ a miserable 86db sens However, conisdering the panel is 10x's the size of dual W18's + a 6.5 DavidLouis Full Range + a Seas Cresendo, all added up, still is less voicing surafce area vs a the Manepan.
I'll run the W18's as bass, If I need extended highs, I'll add a pair of Cresendos. WOW and under $1G Alott less, like $650!!!!!!! Good thing here is, I have a Defy7, power to spare for magnepan's demanding current draw. Here is a YT vid showing how you can modify the magnepan,, I;'ve not watched it yet, will do so today. This Hifi Guy is the best hifi geek on Youtube. He knows his stuff and has experiemented in countless speaker designs. He's da man. I can 't wait to get my LRS.
And gets even better, Made in the USA,, UNREAL. If the LRS performs as hoped. I will make a long series of Youtube videos, putting this speaker on the map, promoting the Maggie as The Worlds Finest speaker.
Ck out all YT reviews of the Magnepan. Every review gives 2 big thumbs up, Try to that on any speaker on the market.
When it comes to midrange, the Magnepan .7 has strengths and weaknesses, as do all magnetic panel speakers; see my article at Dagogo.com. Even the King Sound King III and the Sound Lab Ultimate 545 (both also reviewed, and I own the King III) have idiosyncrasies associated with the panel technology. There are aspects of performance that different technologies supersede. It is easy to hear when you compare speakers in your own room.
A speaker I recently reviewed which reminds me of Vandersteen in terms of the sound quality of the midrange, and a terrific value, but with a distinctly different, and imo in some respects better, sonic signature, is the Aspen Acoustics Lagrange L5 MkII, also reviewed for Dagogo.com. I have not heard anything else quite like the DLT (Disproportionately Large Tweeter) design, which I discuss in my article. The blend of dynamic and large ribbon gives a very precise, and yet luxurious character to the speaker.
The takeaway is this; the DLT is winning my listening time away from even the King III ESL. I prefer ESL to magnetic planar usually. I have had a lot of great time with the King III, and it has represented for me that spacious, grand, powerful wall of sound, so I never thought that a hybrid dynamic could pull me away from that somewhat. Even what I consider to be a superior panel speaker (King III) is getting less playing time because of the unique aspects of the Lagrange L1. The midrange - all of it - is very involving, more distinct and yet as clean/precise, more so than the panel. They are quite different experiences, but a shift in tech can cause a ruckus in terms of what the ears prefer to hear. :)
"Best" midrange? If you have experienced few speakers/systems in direct comparison in your room and can afford only one expression, then that would likely be your "best", wouldn't it?
I reviewed and owned the L5 MkII. I now own the flagship L1 prototype, which can be seen at the Aspen Acoustics site, and the production model of the L1 will be coming for review. The speaker is done, but Scott is waiting on an Eton driver, a delay from the Covid shutdown.
Properly placed the LRS and the 1.7i "maggies" will amaze most people. You do need a good amp, but they are not hard to find. Try the Starke Sound AD4.320; truly amazing. If you are into pipe organ music, get a subwoofer, but for jazz, folk, most classical, proper placement will do. You do lose on dynamic range, but the clarity is worth it. Enjoy!
hshifi, the MiniDSP is a much better crossover than the CR1. It is not that the CR1 is bad, it is now outdated outdated technology. Subs have to be placed differently than the main speaker but the have to match the main speakers in time and phase. You can only perform these corrections in digital. You can also program any crossover point at any order. All planar speakers require subwoofers. They are simply overwhelmed by the physics of the situation. clearthinker, you and I are certainly of the same mind when it comes to Tektons. Rock and roll. However, I am not a huge ML fan. They are for people who never listen above 80 dB. As the volume increase the curved diaphragm becomes non-linear and distortion sets in. They start to sound stressed. They also have to cross over to dynamic drivers at a higher frequency, 250 Hz I believe so you wind up with disparate sound projection, line source above 300 Hz or so and point source below. As you move away from the speaker it gets brighter. I think Roger Sanders makes the best Hybrid speaker from an absolute performance perspective but he is of the opinion that a speaker only images at one position and that is all that matters. Everywhere else does not matter. I think this is a better compromise to make than curving the panel to increase dispersion but, I made that compromise for decades, head locked in a vise. I am super glad I do not have to make that compromise any more. Sound Labs has the right solution, small flat panels angled to form a continuous 45 degree array. They are better at projecting the third dimension than any other speaker I have heard and only two others ever got close, Apogee Divas driven by Krell amps and Dick Sequerra Pyramid Metronomes powered by Threshold amps. This is of course "in my experience" which was pretty comprehensive.... 40 years ago. It is impossible today to keep up with everything.
Hello, Maggies don’t do well on the heavy bass. I know the answer is add a sub or two. I really think the most important thing is crossing them over at 80 hz at -24db. This really only works with separates or an integrated amp with a built in crossover. There are a lot of deals to be had on crossovers and subs. The crossover I like is the JL Audio CR1. It lets you do this with ease. It also does RCA and XLR so you are covered. I know $3k seems like a lot, not when you hear the difference in sound.
Millercarbon- give up the sales pitch. Just because you drank the tekton koolaid and with going dirt cheap, most other good speakers (magnepan, vandersteen, Wilson, and hundreds of others) surpass your tektons, for the same price or cheaper.
Miller, no-one can miss your shameless promotion of these DIY back yard speakers. All they offer is the most drivers per $ and poor use of plywood. After all this time why don't you stop. We've all heard it 1000s of times now.
On mid-range, Martin-Logan hold more than a candle to Maggies, although the idea's the same.
I picked up a pair 3 days ago for $425 off craigs. I love them. They are awesome. No bass really and I’m guessing you need a well sorted front end and the room to support them. They have the most ridiculously small sweet spot. Once you incorporate a sub and get the lrs’s positioned correctly they are awesome. First pair of maggies and I’ll eventually step up to something bigger.
The imaging and openess to their sound is addictive.
maybe there is some room for box speakers,, this DIYer seems to think so. Sure YT compression does not give us real time listening,,,but read some of the comments,,,
hummmm, I'm still for panels though. Consider, what is the price tag on the Sonus fabers?? OK, now I'm paying ~~UNDER~~~ $1G for the Little Ribbon Speaker. Sure the SF's have far superior bass, highs are pretty rich also, but again price comparison. I'm into midrange , where most if not all my calssiacl music is voiced. I do not need/ nor want Sonus aber's bass, /extended highs. Again, Panels always seem to come out as **best bang for the buck*. +'s and -"s, at the end of the day,,,ahh shootout, Panels (in all their variety) is the last speaker standing,,,,
Not a big maggi fan owned from 1.6-3.7s power hungry 🐷, very cheap Xover parts , frame flexes like a sail ,which adds distortions, connections pure garbage those nickel straps real beauties and fuses adds more crap , you would think in 20 years at least a WBT connector ,no way just a pathetic Pure resistive slot for a banana . Sick of them 200% no excuses whatsoever ever l look at Peter Guns Magnastands I Donot even know if he is still in business ,but a Night and Day improvement for a few grand in cost . I don’t see the value when myself a Loudspeaker modder from way back, youhave to spent well over $1k just to fix most of the issues , may as well rewire it and new frame while your at it ,No Thanks !!
Somehow I missed the stats/ planar/ panel ribbon speakers all these past 20 years. Just did, out of lack of understanding what they were all about. And hard to know what was hype and what was truth. As you guys know so well, there is alot of hype involved with speaker reviews/opinions. Seems most seasoned audiophiles place planar/stats/tall ribbons as **The Golden Benchmark** as a standard for comparison. So if someone says, **WOW these box speakers are really something**, WEll they should be judged next to either a massive expensive horn system, or a planar/ribbon/stat.
We need a standard, Since horns are not as acessible, based on so mahy limitations. budget being the principle reason why we can't all owna big horn system. That leaves these Stats/panels/tall ribbons as ~~THe Reference Point~~~
I'll be very happy with the Little Ribbon Speaker. Will be a sheer joy and pleasure to finally hear my classical with rich, dynamic, deep soundstage,, Not sure if I can add **Wide** as we know these type designs have a certain sweet spot. Which was once a issue with me, now means absoluetly nothing. The only other limitation to using some of the larger panel speakers is quality of high power amplification. Bottom line is, for under $1G, there really is no other speaker on the market that can compete with the Little Ribbon Speaker. Its a great way for newbies to jump into this hifi hobby w/o breaking the bank. And end up witha speaker that will be of lasting value (no need to upgrade/flip) for many years to come. = No big disappointments,, (Such as we've all had with box designs). Listeners fatigue comes from the speakers. The speaker that has the least amount of coloration/distortion which is none other than ~~listening fatigue~~~ wins the shootout. I asked this Q some 20 yrs ago, here on Audiogon, **Speaker shootout at the OK Corral***. I walked away not learning much, with my preconceived notions.
2 things I did note from that topic was that stas/planars, need big clean power and that tiny sweet spot. So I looked elsewhere, back to box, and the SEas Thors. Now i am more awake and realize it is the panels which will be most ideal, if not ~~perfect~~ to draw me into classical music, especially big symphony passages in full bloom.
Maybe later on, I'll go up a notch to a larger panel. Right now I just want to get the Little Ribbon and settle in , after some recent experiementaion disasters.. The only good thing in the Thor upgarde was keeping the new Mundorf 10uf in the bass xover which gives the W18's, a nice kick in bass, which some may find a bit soft, but better that before with the old Hovalnd caps. Thats all I really needed to do, was swap of the caps in the bass , get rid of the Millennium and add this Little Ribbon Speaker, I'd be far ahead of the game, had I listened to what my tech geek was saying,,~~I LOVE my maggies~~~. I was not listening. His Maggies are big, like 4 panels and uses a big amp. Out my league. I'll report back when they arrive in some weeks,,,,if I can find the cash soon enough before they are sold. ... Planars, sets ~~Some Standards~~~ I refrain from ~~THE~~, but at least some, = midrange etc etc,,= dang near THE Golden Standard in speaker evaluations. Newbies take note, ~~Ban the hype~~~
dynamiclinearity, you are close but not quite. LINE sources fall off at 6 dB/oct vs 3 dB/oct. The 3.7i's switch to point source behavior from about 250 hz and under. So, from the lower midrange down they are point sources. This is why Maggies tend to get bright as you move away from them. In order to radiate as a line source a speaker has to taller than the longest wavelength it is to reproduce. 20 hz is 32 feet. Fortunately physics comes to the rescue. If both ends of the line source end at boundaries Like the floor and the ceiling the line source effectively goes on into infinity or performs as such down to zero Hz. This is the reason for 8 and 9 foot speakers, the most common ceiling heights. Magneplanar had discussed making 8 foot 20.7s but the marketing guys talked them out of it. They said it would never sell. The people who buy 20,7s are seriously interested in sound. Having superior bass performance would have been an EASY sell. It is the 7 footers that would have been languishing. Go figure.
To mention Tektons and Magnepans in the same breath is a serious insult to the Magneplanar corporation.
twodoplphins, you are not the only person here with that opinion. As for 99.97% perfect? Maybe 99.95%. Really, it depends on how much you really cherish sub bass and how loud you want to go. If you want to crack the foundation with Nine Inch Nails then you will have to add subwoofers which IMHO should be added anyway to get the last word in perfection out of them. On their own I would say 90% perfect. With the right subwoofer system, 100% perfect. I have never heard another speaker perform at this level. Many would say, "Well of course! You own them." But, I would respond by saying that is why I bought them. As for Tube amplifiers, there are many who have said the ultimate amp for driving SLs is the Atma-Sphere MA2. I hope to hear that combo at some point. Other tube amps? I am not so sure. I do know that high powered SS amps can do an excellent job. The JC 1's are a very popular amp with the SLs which are what I am using currently. As Ralph has pointed out on numerous occasions Stats have a rising impedance in the bass and by 20 Hz can be up to 30 ohms which robs power from SS amps so you really need a big bruiser to start with. This is not a problem for the Atma- Sphere amps which put out the same power regardless of impedance. In relative terms the 220 watt MA2 is more equivalent to a 600 watt SS amp driving SLs.
Quasi-Ribbon Magnepans all have a very restricted MR/HF listening window approximating the middle 1/3 of the panel...higher or lower and you hear a drastic rolloff of detail. You need to go to the 3.7i with its full length true ribbon to get the real Maggie magic. And have a high current amp with whatever technology you like...as long as it is not harsh or edgy...the ribbons won't hide that! That said, 1.7is are tall enough that most listeners can enjoy them seated and stay "in the window" comfortably...for 1/3 the cost.
@twodolphins There are no perfect speakers, but Sound Lab speakers are 99,97 perfect... The best Magnepan will give you only 80% experience of properly set big stats. That's a personal opinion. If you have a room, go for Sound Lab. Then you should buy also a big tube amplifier to drive them and an air conditionning. There's only one amplifier that works in perfect synergy with big stats. You will find it by your own, I will not mention it here, otherwise people will accuse me to do a marketing job for that company.
Don't be shy. You raved about how much better Sound Lab speakers are compared to Magnepan but are more concerned people might think you're promoting an amplifier for them? OTLs do sound great. I still own a Joule Electra VZN-80.
Uh, I don’t know how many posts I have, but I believe I explain that Magnepan is the holy grail of speakers in pretty much every one of them.
I figured this out in the early 1970’s in my shop, and while there certainly have been great improvements in other types of speakers over the years, only Magggies reproduce what you feed them.
That may be the downside for those with hardware that is not up-to-par, so to speak.
Anyway, they are certainly not for everyone or there would only be one speaker manufacturer rather than about 300 at any given time. I only suggest that you try them IN YOUR ROOM and make a decision based on what YOU LIKE IN YOUR ROOM.
We sold lots of them, but we also sold lots of other brands. Try them and make-up your own mind, please. For myself, and many others, we have stopped worrying about speakers and work to improve our other gear.
@russ69 If a few feet is 5 or 6 feet, you got it right, otherwise there is more to get from your Magnepans..
I certainly don’t dispute that. What I’m saying is that folks don’t need to think a dedicated space with them way out into the room is the only option in order to enjoy them. In fact, they can be pushed all the way back against the wall and just fill the room with music while enjoying coffee, in the kitchen, etc. Then they are easy enough to move into a marked spot, if you want to do that sort of listening - you can just grab either side and skooch them to wherever you want them without even thinking about it. They aren’t unwieldy beasts. In fact, they are easier to move than my Merlin VSM speakers. Those are 85lbs of awkward, dead weight that have to be picked straight up and placed straight back down on feet / spikes. One other thing I’ve come to realize after actually living with them... as for space, yep the Maggies are tall. So what? I’ve got airspace to give... not using it. They occupy the same spot on the floor that my Merlins did, and that’s the issue for me - square footage. Yes, they are wider, but I didn’t have stuff right next to the Merlins either.
When you actually own a pair of Maggies, at least in my experience, you realize how easy they are to live with. Mine are in a large great room that flows into a large kitchen. I wondered about living with the 3.7i before setting up and now realize that was a non-issue.
Bi-amped MAGNEPAN Tympani 1D’s (slightly modified) with a pair of Mirage BPS-400’s.
I run a Marchand PLLXO and a separate channel of amplification for each of the 6 panels, and of course the subs each have their own built in amp. 75watt(into 8 ohm) class-A mono blocks on the high pass and 200watt(into 8 ohm) class-AB on the low pass. All vintage gear that is easily and cheaply obtainable via the various online auction sites.
I’m in the Northern VA area if anyone wants to hit me up and listen to it for themselves.
I went to listen to the LRS's a few years back when I knew my speakers were on their last legs. The LRS is great but the shop also had .7's to compare to. I went home with the .7's As background, my love for the maggies came from the first speaker I ever heard that offered superior clarity and realism, the original Walsh driver form Ohm.The only problem you might have with the LRS is blending it with conventional drivers.
I have owned and enjoyed several transducers over the years that would qualify as contenders Viz Various Maggies , Sound Labs . Apogees , Various Horn Topologies , Vintage Tannoy 15” Silver , Various field coils Etc Etc.
For my part running a close joint second ... Quad 57 and Martin Logan CLX, However IMO No1 spot goes to...8 x stacked Quad 57’s... free air ceiling suspended in a loft conversion space.
I don't know about the best midrange, but I haven't heard better imaging and sound stage. Maybe there's better, but better for $2200?
They are set up 6' from the front wall and 2' from the side walls in a three-sided room open to a huge volume (its a basement room). Really a one-person listening space, but that's all I need. My better half is happy with the HT system.
Driven by a pair of worked over ADCOM GFA 565 mono-blocks.
Two REL subs help out but are not necessary IMHO.
Oh, and I can't hear over 13kHz, so I don't care about the rolled off highs. I can't hear them if they were there...
I have tried Magnepans many times and was never impressed with them. But this is because my first audiphile grade speaker was Quad ESL 57. So the level of my expectations was already on the very top of possible audiophile experience. It is well known that Quad ESL have the very best midrange on this planet (with a proper tube amplifier and source). But they also have many limitations in all other aspects. If you want a best midrange, and real sound, on a real speaker (and not on a pair of small "headphones on legs" which Quad ESL 57 essentialy are), then you should go for big stats from Sound Lab. Many Magnepans, ribbon speakers, classic speakers, can be VERY persuasive too in middle-range area, and will satisfy many audiophiles. But electrostatics are regularly better in three key areas: they are more natural, more organic, more alive and they have better middle range than any other type of speakers ! There are no perfect speakers, but Sound Lab speakers are 99,97 perfect... The best Magnepan will give you only 80% experience of properly set big stats. That's a personal opinion. If you have a room, go for Sound Lab. Then you should buy also a big tube amplifier to drive them and an air conditionning. There's only one amplifier that works in perfect synergy with big stats. You will find it by your own, I will not mention it here, otherwise people will accuse me to do a marketing job for that company.
@mozartfan, Maybe "the wife" would be more receptive to your request for financial assistance if you stop objectifying her with disrespectful terminology.
I’ve always loved Maggies since I acquired a pair of MG I’s in 1977. My suggestion would be to find a dealer who can demo the Maggies you can afford, even if you have to fly there; and if you like them, have them drop-shipped to your home. Keep in mind that they’re dipoles. So they need plenty of distance from the front wall of your listening roomie order to sound their best.
Good luck. Happy listening. Love your speakers; and respect your wife, if for no other reason than to have more options going forward.
No it's not subjective, and yes it is in a vacuum. Because I've had sets of 57s Quads Maggies, EMTs, Apogee, BG, Monsoons, Sound lab, Infinity IRS series and an over 100 pairs I've made. ALL planar and or ribbon based.
Strathearns are the best. I mean everybody else can be wrong. It's not the first time. Anyone that has them (VERY FEW).. Keep the secret.
Who want's a run on the best speaker driver EVER made... At least not until I secure 8 or so to have a couple of spares.
Somebody need to start making them again..
One more set, one more time. Maybe 2 more sets.:-)
’best’ is a subjective thought, in the eye of the beholder
owners of quad esl’s, spendor bc1/sp1/sp100, proac response series would argue hard the midrange produced by those speakers are every bit as good, if not better, than maggies
that said, purity of midrange reproduction exists not in a vacuum, but alongside the rest of the range, and how it is ALL presented, is what matters
I want to build a set of Strathearn 24" ribbons 3 per side for the MIDS and Aurum Cantus G1 Ribbon Tweeter for the highs.
Mount them in an enclosure not OB. They always mount them in an open baffle and a dipole. I’m thinking narrow baffle bipole. I bet that is the magic combo. Something about that ribbon, nothing else like it. AC tweeters real show stopper too They will go down to 600 hz -3db I think..to 25+ khz 103 "E"
You shouldn't compare the efficiency of a planar and a conventional speaker unless you sit one meter(the standard distance to measure efficiency) away from the speakers. Beyond a meter planar speakers fall of at 3 dB every doubling of distance while conventional speakers fall off at 6 dB. So planars are effectively significantly more efficient at normal distances than their measurements tell you. By the way I'm not even a planar fan most of the time but that doesn't change the facts about loudness roll off with distance.
csmgolf Magnepans have special needs in respect to room size and positioning within said room. Dipoles are not like conventional speakers. Someone should warn Magnepan about what they may be getting into.
I haven’t found that to be the case in terms of placement, but they are in a big room currently. Let me put it to you this way... I have the speakers a few feet off the front wall, tweeters on the outside, and eyeballed their aiming. They instantly delivered the goods. What they do need is horsepower. I’m driving them with a Marantz PM-11S2 integrated amp - 200w/ch into 4 ohms. Enough power for my own listening tastes.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Billy says the maggo9es are ~~The Golden Benchmark~~ which all others speakers are judged by There ya goooooooooooo Surely NOT Voxativ. ha!
So somehow you missed it, even after I cued it up? The Tekton "have the qualities of EVERYTHING I like about the Maggies, AND the Snells, AND the Vandersteens..."
I thought you had already assembled high fidelity speakers. No need to do anything else, right? Apparently, they are not all of that. This whole thing is like watching a train wreck in slow motion. Magnepans have special needs in respect to room size and positioning within said room. Dipoles are not like conventional speakers. Someone should warn Magnepan about what they may be getting into.
I have vast experience with MMGs, .7s, 1.6/7s, 3.6s. If you want true planer sound, all those will do the trick but the smaller ones would sound better with a better tweeter and more bass. You trade planer sound for full range sound. A sub helps but you won't get Maggie Bass, which is what you want. Still hard to beat for the price.
@under $1G,, these lil LRS’ will sell like hot cakes on a cold alaskan miners camp. Rumor has it, wait time is like 6 months out, Could get alot worse if Magnepan is not doing anything to up production turn around. Either build a new section or work 24/7.
Maggies require a little kick in the pants so to speak... To really sound good. I love them.. Always have.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ WEll I always recall reading how planars needed big juice, so I forgot about these type of speakers.
Some guy on another audio forum suggested I ck out Magnepan. I told him, I think they are no longer in business. He sent me the link to web and from there I researched all night. Ain't no doubt this is the speaker I;'ve been looking for.
*a good kick**, Yeah so i read. WEll I have this Defy7 with some reserve power. Finally get to put it to use. Will run the W18;'s as bass. Will look for a electronic xover take out the bass = allows LRS to voice better mids/highs
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Billy says the maggo9es are ~~The Golden Benchmark~~ which all others speakers are judged by There ya goooooooooooo Surely NOT Voxativ. ha!
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