Just got mine last week. After 24 hours of play all I can say is that this is not your father's class D amplifier. There is not one thing about its sound that reminds me of the class D gremlins that I do not like. The low end filled in and now has deep impact, the midrange is the love child of a beautiful tube and clean hybrid amp - just gorgeous. Highs are very clean and extended. Spatial cues are top notch. My system has had some damn good tube and solid state amps in it before and it has never sounded this good. I am blown away with the quality of sound coming from class D amplification at this price point.
I spoke to @ricevs this afternoon and shipped my amp to him for delivery on Saturday.
With regards to my demoing guest today. I am not sure if he will make the trek up to my place again. Today was a business meeting and we now have all the issues resolved. I will invite him up once the amp is returned buy I am not sure if he would be interested.
The Voyager will not end up sounding like the KRELL. The KRELL has a very particular signature that is different from the Voyager. Neither one is better than the other. Just a matter of preference.
As I mentioned in some other threads. The KRELL is buttery smooth, good detail, my most powerful amp on bass, and very relaxing. The Voyager will never sound like that. I use my Benchmark DAC3B with the KRELL. With the Voyager I use both my DACs.
I think we can point to speakers as XOs are typically done by ear in a specific room, to a specific amplifier, or taste. My Emerald Physics 3.4s (12" concentric drivers with 1" polyester dome tweeters) are plenty adequate for most rooms, but in my voluminous room I supplement with 2 SVS 12" down firing subs. I had the XOs set at ~ 80 (which works with some bass shy, or overly bright discs), but as I kept dialing them down to ~ 45 speed significantly increased as well as detail with my stock Voyager, yet still providing the fullness of notes say from a hollow body guitar, or banjo, and I suspect a violin, cello... Obviously, this can’t be done on hard wired XOs, where small changes can have a dramatic affect on the sound
One thing I learned yesterday and now today with more listening is that when I add or remove things in my room I need to really test everything again.
I created a thread a few months ago about adding a TV into my room in-between the Thiels. I ended up buying a sound absorption panel based on recommendations. The end result was that even with the panel, moving the TV in-between the speakers really messed up the sound. The TV was previously to my LEFT closer to me than the speakers, so some reflections.
Today I have the TV still to the LEFT but now in front of me and with good distance from the speakers. The sound absorption panel that I bought is now propped up beside my CD storage rack (I just need a place to store it). This was likely giving some bad reflections in the past. However, today I removed my Convolution filter for the Thiels and the sound is not fatiguing as in the past without the filter and the prior arrangement. I got to do more listening but this is a good initial observation for me.
Thanks for your informative thoughts on the LSA Voyager GaN amplifier. A few questions if you don't mind- I see you also have the Parasound a21+. I also have this amp and like it but it isn't as pristine sounding as my former tube amplifier. Can you please compare the a21+ to the Voyager?
As far as class D is concerned I have heard some very good ones. Even the best have a fatal flaw to my ears- dealing with music that has intentional distortion effects. Lots of rock music have recordings that compress and intentionally distort the music for effect- example Sonic Youth, Spoon, Arcade Fire, others. The class D amps tend to make the intentional distortion sound horrible- intolerable as a matter of fact. Have you had a chance to listen to music like this on the Voyager?
I also have found that room changes are often audible, so i do like to do a brief reassessment after making them. The changes I’ve made the last 8 months have all been focused on improving acoustics but sometimes just storing something or moving something out because it’s needed elsewhere is audible.
Like with your convolution filter, I now like the SQ better with my room correction turned off. But that may change back for reasons I won’t go into for now…..
This thread is about the LSA GAN-fet amp experiences being reported to the rest of us….
Avanti1960, the Parasound A21+ is a very sold amp, however, it is not as crystalline clean/clear as the Voyager. Probably a bit more grunt on the low end than the LSA Voyager. The PassLabs X250.5 is also a better sounding amp than the A21+. I do not listen to much rock. But on what I do listen to, jazz, New Age, classical, and some R&B, I have not found anything that is irritating or unlistenable because of amp distortion.
@yyzsantabarbara I love the detailed comparisons that you are providing. It's especially refreshing to see such a balanced, impartial approach you take when describing what you're hearing. Reading your reviews, as well as OP's, I'm pretty convinced that I need to give class D/GaN another chance. Hopefully, companies start to release integrated amps based on GaN soon. From what I've read, we should see something toward the end of the year.
It sounds to me that the Voyager is giving your Coda, Benchmark, and Krell amps a run for the money. Considering that the Voyager is only $3k, this is quite an achievement.
Thanks for your thoughts about the a21+ vs. the Voyager. Those are my thoughts too, just a little "opaque" compared to some other amps I have had. It’s interesting that slightly opaque / cloudy can be fatiguing at least for me. Definitely looking for a new amp. Have you ever heard the Pass XA25?
@arafiq I was reading some of the posts I made here and it seems like I am going back and forth on the DSP that I am using. I was saying earlier that the DSP was needed with the CODA and not so much with the Voyager. Well to test this out I have been playing music that I consider my most fatiguing without the DSP enabled. I am using the CODA 07x and CODA #8. At this point I think the way my room is re-configured I can live WITHOUT the DSP on the Thiel’s because I an not getting fatigued. This also means the Voyager can be DSP less also because it has a little less bass power.
One more thing I can do is re-measure my room with the microphone and specialty software to get new DSP files generated for my new configuration.
On the RAAL SR1a headphones I have a feeling the subtle DSP that I was using is beneficial. I had a 3-4 hours listening session last night without DSP and had some fatigue issues with the bass heavy KRELL. When I added the DSP everything was good again.
BTW - Now that I am keeping the KRELL I have 1 too many amps with the Voyager and CODA #8 and one will have to go. Send me a DM if you ever decide to get a preamp.
Taking me way longer to get my stereo back up an running (no speakers for over one year now...been using headphones). Just now finished wiring the speakers and I will be firing up the stereo tomorrow some time. The amp starting the game will be my modded VTV Purifi amp (same level of mod that was reviewed by 10audio). I will do a couple of mods to the Purifi and then change to the Voyager......this should be fun.
"Patience Grasshopper"
What do they say about things taking way longer than expected?.......At least 3 times longer.....at least. I thought I would have the stereo fired up last Thursday.......it does feel way more together in here.....had to clean a ton of stuff up. It is all good!
Patience? I’ve waited 2 years from when I was initially told I would have the Voyager. Of course it was out of my control, but the wait was well worth it.
Confucius say The reward for patience is PATIENCE
YYZ Are you using XLR or RCA cables? My system is 100% true balanced. I don’t notice any less bass, but surely cleaner, faster bass. Now, having said that, improving on internal wiring can bring a touch more bass authority/weight. Be very interesting to get a report after Ric does his thing
Last night I played my absolute worst torture test cd Wilson Philips Greatest Hits, and for the first time I was able to listen without pain, but the music IMHO SUCKS
@tweak1 I was using Audience Au24 SE balanced XLR + Wywire Balanced XLR from my sources to my CODA and the 15 foot Benchmark XLR to my CODA #8 amp. I tried this setup with the CODA #8, Voyager, and AHB2. The CODA #8 had the most bass followed by the Voyager. The AHB2 was further behind.
I now run Audience Au24 SE RCA from my DACs to the CODA 07x to see if it can be quieter (it is not). However, the bass sounded the same as the XLR with the CODA #8 and Voyager.
The KRELL K-300i seems to have the most bass of all the amps I have in the house.
yyz, Your overall findings are that the AHB2 is the most accurate of all the amps. That includes the tightest bass, which will also be the least quantity of bass. Larger quantity of bass is always associated with lower quality and accuracy, as shown by the Krell.
@viber I do not disagree on anything you wrote. However, I would say that the KRELL would be preferred by the majority of people. The AHB2 is disliked by people that like some warmth (I like both). I sold my 3rd AHB2 to a guy who only kept it for 2 days. He hated it. While I was sorry I sold it that sale did lead to the Voyager.
Larger quantity of bass is always associated with lower quality and accuracy, as shown by the Krell.
Only one thing to say about that, and it’s double phooey!!
I would say that the KRELL would be preferred by the majority of people.
True, nothing wrong with Krell bass, it’s most controlled, tight and dynamic bass of nearly any other amp I’ve heard. (BJT (bipolar) done right, can’t beat it) And it’s does hard loads better than the AHB2 because it does far more current into them than it can, and bridging the AHB2 into mono won’t get it up there with a Krell, if anything it’ll be worse just louder (more watts but less stable) than the stereo into low impedances.
George, Your good technical comments are not matched by any listening observations. I don't know how much musical training or experience you have, regarding live unamplified music.
history shows and I also say , nothing touches big Krell amps for bass.
This statement is false. If the amp is behaving as a voltage source then its bass won't be any different from any other amplifier which is also able to act as a voltage source. Add to that the fact that almost any solid state amp has had enough feedback to play bass properly in the last 40 years, which is why solid state has a good reputation for making bass.
'Nothing touching it' suggests that the amp has a coloration- for example **too much** bass, which seems really unlikely. So this one seems a furphy.
All amps....solid state or tube do bass differently (my direct experience). Because it is not one thing that EVER does anything. Even the jacks and wiring and vibration control, etc. etc. effect the bass response. Change the fuse in a Krell....you will get different bass response. Most transistor amps are voltage sources.....they all sound different. Certainly, Krell has a reputation for "big" bass. Is it perfect? Is is the best ever? Nah....no such thing. This game in infinite.....everything makes a difference. I could mod a Krell and get better bass, midrange and highs.....it never ends...
FYI.....the LSA Voyager and the Peachtree GaN 400 use the same amp boards and power supply. The only thing different is the case, jacks and wires. They will sound slightly different, as everything makes a difference.....but basically.....when someone is talking about the sound of one......they are talking about the sound of both. We shall soon see whether or not the new $3000 Wryed for Sound 400 W GaN amp is also using these modules or have developed their own.
Pays to look a little harder, or you only see what you want to see
" Larger quantity of bass is always associated with lower quality and accuracy, as shown by the Krell."
What exactly is being said here? Its possible I misinterpreted it and if that's the case my prior statement would be false. FWIW I've not heard excess bass from any system I've heard with Krell amps. As solid state amps go, if anything I'd say they are a bit dark on top compared to the brightness of many solid state amps. And that's not a bad thing- most solid state amps are bright due to distortion.
**If** you can change a fuse in a Krell and the bass is different, I think you'll also find that the mids and highs are different too.
Interesting thread, thanks for sharing your thoughts. Is there any word of GaN-based amplifiers hitting the pro-audio market (Crown, RAM, Powersoft), or even musical instrument amps? Assuming tradeoffs in sound quality with increased power capability, are current GaN modules scalable to achieve 1,000-10,000W+ for pro-audio use?
Is there any word of GaN-based amplifiers hitting the pro-audio market
"Right now, the company is seeing a growing demand for smart and battery powered speakers, multi-channel automotive and high-end home audio systems, and is also targeting traditional home theatre and professional audio markets, including stadiums. And according to Reigel, feedback from reviewers in the audio industry, so far, is good."
Like I said either under a rock or too much OTL listening, with most hard to drive hi-end lower impedance speakers.
Shouldn’t bass be like the music in which it exists rather than a certain brand of amplifier??
Yes, it’s obvious from that answer/question, you have not sat in a jazz venue when the unamplified drum kit is being severely belted. It’s closest in audio as I said (Krell like bass) and similar amps to it, like Gryphon etc etc etc and defiantly not OTL and most tubes with the majority of hard to drive hi-end lower impedance speakers.
Shouldn’t bass be like the music in which it exists rather than a certain brand of amplifier??
Yes,
it’s obvious from that answer/question, you have not sat in a jazz
venue when the unamplified drum kit is being severely belted. It’s
closest in audio as I said (Krell like bass) and similar amps to it,
like Gryphon etc etc etc and defiantly not OTL and most tubes with the
majority of hard to drive hi-end lower impedance speakers.
Your response does not address the question (which by definition makes it a Strawman logical fallacy). And not knowing me, you'd be hard pressed to know what I've done and what I've not done. But FWIW, I play string bass and have played in jazz bands. Sheesh. I suspect you've no idea that your response here was simply so much rubbish.
You are right about OTLs except for the larger ones, which have no troubles playing lower impedances. But the ability to play a low impedance speaker is not the same as saying the amp has excellent bass.
If you're into bass, you want unmeasurable square wave tilt at 20Hz (which is something our OTLs do). If you know what that means you also know that most tube amps can't do that. Getting good bass isn't about driving low impedance so much as it is making sure that the amp has the LF bandwidth, that its low frequency bandwidth does not exceed the timing constants in the power supplies and otherwise has low distortion in the bass region. Its not about output impedance, since an amp with higher output impedance will simply have to be used with a higher impedance speaker, and that speaker can then demonstrate that the amp does indeed have 'good bass'. I do this all the time at audio shows; for a long time we had the Atma-Sphere Bass of the Year list on our website, which was a list of recordings that shook the walls very nicely.
In solid state amps that are direct coupled, since the 1970s they have had enough feedback at 100Hz that they have no problems playing good bass. Once you have that feedback several things occur. The first is that the amp can reject power supply noise as the feedback will correct for that. The second is that the distortion at 100Hz will be low (we've been seeing that for decades). At this point the only real concern is making sure that the power supplies don't sag under heavy demand and there are plenty of high end audio solid state amps that fit that bill. The feedback thing is the key here; if the amp employs it and the power supply does not sag, it will have 'Krell like bass' since the Krell has sufficient feedback at 100Hz and otherwise has good supplies. So it then follows that if it has **more** bass then its the result of a coloration and in a nutshell, that's not happening with a Krell at that frequency.
The differences you hear in solid state amps, as long as the power supplies are not an issue (and this includes class D) are going to be in the midrange and highs. Admittedly, you'll hear some class D amps that really can't do the bass right, but you'll also find in those amps that they have power supply problems (which I excluded via the caveat above). Now you might be able to get a slight improvement in the bass by improving speaker connections and other minor tweaks but that has nothing to do with the brand if those tweaks are applied across the board.
Atmasphere, I used to respond to George.....now, I have finally (boy I am dense some times) learned he will never hear what I have to say....so, there is no sense responding. I will correct something he says that is way, way off (but only once)......but there is no sense going over the same thing with him over and over and over again....which is what I see you doing with him on thread after thread. Whatever he says is not going to change the course of anyone's purchase or happiness nor change the course for humanity. Anyone with a brain can see how little or how much George actually knows (based on his direct experience with the items/points of view being talked about).
It is best to just leave him be. If he has no one that is "reacting" to his posts then they will just die on their own......no problem for anyone. BUT, if you keep responding to him (trying to FIX his words) then this nonsense will go on forever. Peace is realizing that the world is perfect....just as it is.....including with whatever George spouts. The deepest peace comes from the experience of being loved every second by the entire universe.....and that it has always been this way......and always will be this way.......no matter what the "circumstances" seem to indicate. I wish you all the deepest peace. For it is our "true nature"......our truth.
Interesting Darko review of the Peachtree GaN 400, finding it SLIGHTLY superior in HF detail to the Mytek Brooklyn Amp original version, which I find excellent. The Mytek is quite neutral from my 2 year experience with it. Darko's comments are consistent with the glowing reports from posters here on the Peachtree. The Peachtree is probably very close to the Voyager.
In denial is the only phrase that comes to mind. I find it very sad that the bothers in arms, have never heard the saying "Krell Like Bass" in audio, quite is bazaar, and that they think it wrong!!!
I have finally (boy I am dense some times) learned he will never hear
what I have to say....so, there is no sense responding. I will correct
something he says that is way, way off (but only once)......but there is
no sense going over the same thing with him over and over and over
again
@ricevs I've been at the same conclusion for a long time. I don't make the responses for his benefit, I do it so others reading this stuff at least have a different viewpoint rather than obvious misinformation.
Trouble is.....no one cares....and he keeps ranting and disagreeing.....saying the same thing over and over (as we all do)....disturbing the peace. So, if you keep quiet.....we can hear our heart flutter its soft joy. We can see a post by him and just move on....stay in happiness....don't get caught in the downer drama......it will just fade away. The drama we want is upper drama.....the good news. Fighting and "heavy duty" points of view are part of the downer drama. Does not mean you cannot discuss things and have a different point of view......but you can learn to stay in your heart and always post something that you know will be uplifting for all......not just a point of view......listen to your heart.
Damn, what happened to just figuring out how something sounds, how does it sound relative to other kit, and what are the system synergies. I mean, some of the tussles in this thread just blow my mind.
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