Just got mine last week. After 24 hours of play all I can say is that this is not your father's class D amplifier. There is not one thing about its sound that reminds me of the class D gremlins that I do not like. The low end filled in and now has deep impact, the midrange is the love child of a beautiful tube and clean hybrid amp - just gorgeous. Highs are very clean and extended. Spatial cues are top notch. My system has had some damn good tube and solid state amps in it before and it has never sounded this good. I am blown away with the quality of sound coming from class D amplification at this price point.
yyzsantabarbara, Thanks for your update. In order to determine the effect of Ric's mods, you'll have to use the Coda preamp, since you used the Coda with the stock Voyager. Still, now that you have the more transparent/neutral LA4 preamp again, it will be interesting to hear how the LA4 + AHB2 compares with LA4 + modded Voyager.
ricevs, You said, "HIgher impedance sounded better using a 50 ohm source with 10 ma of class A bias and two feet of hardwired at one end low capacitance cable."
Please, without wasting more time and space on love, etc., just say what you mean about "sounded better." Life is too short to waste time. Thanks.
@twoleftears I spoke with a few owners by DM, I emailed Doug Dale at CODA, and read some other posts. The bleed through issue is a known issue, maybe considered a feature and not a bug :). However, now that I have the LA4 I may send the 07x unit in for a look.
There was an issue with the 07x when I first received it. It was acting all haywire and I worked with Doug remotely to identify a loose wire on the volume control. Ever since that was fixed the unit has not gone haywire, just the bleed and some hiss.
The hiss is considered a whisper hiss, but I am really annoyed by it on quiet music. I sit 8-9 feet away and have been spoilt by my old all Benchmark stack which was noiseless.
I tolerate all of this because the unit does make magic with a lot of music. It was also essential with my RAAL SR1a headphones until I decided to use only the KRELL K-300i integrated with it.
The LA4 does not have the lushness to the sound that the 07x has but I now have options when I get annoyed by the 07x. It is easy to flip the XLR’s from one preamp to the amp.
@viber You are correct. I will use the CODA 07x when I compare the mods. I have also invited the person that heard the amp on my system before the mods to my house to hear the amp when it is ready. He said he will be excited to hear it. Hopefully we get it before early next week because there is a time component to what we are doing.
What are you doing back here again, things quiet over at the other place??
Yeah, most activity these days seems to be in tubes and speakers and Pass Labs. I'm curious about these new GaN amps and wondering if I should get one to put up against my current classD reference ( $2 TDA8932 chipamp). Don't want to spend a ton of dough though, perhaps I should wait for them to become more mainstream?
Yeah, my hi-tech friend was very excited with this and is getting one of these GaN by GaN with SMP Eval bundles it just left the US for AU. It’s got pre/dac/volume control/input switching/variable feedback, they set the feedback low, they say for better sound so the distortion figures aren’t out of this world, still good though.
As more become GaN amps available doesn't mean they will all be made to the same standards. The basic GaN module is inexpensive.
Definitely check out the other GaN threads: LSA Voyager is only $3000, and benefits from simple tweaks like replacing the rubber footers with inexpensive springs, weighing down the top, or removing it as I am about to do, as I have with my Oppo 105 and EVS 1200 class D amp hth
yyz, Looking forward to your and your friend's impressions with the modded Voyager. Unfortunately, memory for details of sound is fleeting, so the ideal is to have stock and modded amps simultaneously for a quick A/B back and forth. I was lucky enough to do this with my Mytek Brooklyn original amp and its update, through the generosity of Michal, the owner. The differences were fairly small, and I found the original to have more clarity/snap in my system, which was the opposite of what Michal claimed. If the mods are dramatic, or even if the LA4 + modded V exceeds the clarity/detail of the LA4 + AHB2, whereby the modded V pushes ahead of the AHB2 in the horserace for clarity, that will make headlines.
Since ricevs is not forthcoming on exactly what he hears, user experience like yours will be most appreciated.
@viber correct about remembering how each sounded a few weeks ago. However, we do have a relative gauge of which amp was preferred with the CODA 07x preamp.
For me (on floorstanders) : 1) CODA #8 (more powerful and engaging) 2) Voyager
For my friend (on floorstanders): 1) Voyager (more detailed, less mushy) 2) CODA #8
On the RAAL SR1a headphones, both of us I think went this way.
1) KRELL K-300i by a landslide 2) CODA #8 3) Voyager
My tests are going to be with the 3 amps. I wlll try to get the AHB2 upstairs to compare with the Voyager.
BTW - the day I know my son won’t damage the CODA 07x is the day I move it downstairs to pair with my AHB2 monos. That is a killer combo.
Thanks for your input on the impedance question. I use the Rane ME 60
equalizer as a small gain stage with EQ. This SS source has a low
output impedance, I forgot, maybe 100 ohms. The ratio of input
impedance to output impedance would be 380 for 38K input, or 1500 for
150K input. Both ratios are very high, way over the minimum 10, so I
wonder whether there would be any audible or technical difference
between 38K or 150K.
@viber6 With something like the Rane (which is really meant more for PA and recording use) you *might* have slightly less noise if the input impedance is lower. Otherwise the Rane itself will not interact in any way with load impedances like that. IOW no worries.
Definitely check out the other GaN threads: LSA Voyager is only $3000, and benefits from simple tweaks like replacing the rubber footers with inexpensive springs, weighing down the top, or removing it as I am about to do, as I have with my Oppo 105 and EVS 1200 class D amp hth
Tweak1 not for him
Go over to diyAudio check out what abraxalito is all about, he’d design and build his own if the GaN’s weren’t smd and guide/show others (including the bothers in arms here) how to do it right.
atmasphere, Thanks, confirming what I thought. I bought the Rane ME 60 when I walked into a pro audio store in 1995. My recordings of my orchestra on a small stage of a medical school hall were dead and dull. Neither the conductor nor I was happy. After using the Rane in the recording to boost HF and cut some bass, we were happy. I then inserted the Rane into my audio system for regular commercial recordings, using it flat as just a line stage. It demolished the Spectral DMC 10 gamma line stage for openness and clarity. Recently I bought a tweaked Rane with vibration damping by poster mrdecibel. It was even more open than my original Rane. He agreed with me that the Rane is more transparent than many audiophile line stages priced around $10K. Only his passive Luminous preamp beat the Rane for transparency.
Since my listening preference is very close as a violinist performer, I want to hear my recordings with that perspective. I use the Rane with HF boost above 8 kHz, which does a great job as a facsimile of reality. Believe me, it is most important to use judicious EQ by ear, which is a bigger factor than the relatively small differences in line stages. Many audiophiles have closed minds and mock pro audio equipment and concepts.
Many audiophiles have closed minds and mock pro audio equipment and concepts.
The Rane is an opamp-based circuit and as long as they are not demanding too much gain out of any particular opamp it should perform really well. Rane stuff is designed by actual engineers :) I use one in my keyboard rig, but when I've used the mic input its proven that its very transparent.
Received my Voyager today. My DAC has no volume control so started with the Oppo for burn in. Question- I have a pair of tube mono preamps. Older TEACs designed for late 50's R2R for Japanese market.
Have they been serviced out- new filter capacitors in the power supplies and the like? If yes, then its certainly worth a try. If no, I would not run them at all until that's been done- your power transformers are at risk.
atmasphere, Interesting about your use of the Rane mic input. You might have a different Rane product than my ME 60 which doesn't have any input marked mic. But some of these opamps are excellent, like the Jensen 990 (I think) used by John Hardy in his mic preamp. Back in 1995, I made several 1 min recordings of myself playing the first page of the solo Mendelssohn violin concerto, using various preamps, mikes. Even if my playing had slight variations, my violin tone still enabled me to hear the differences between mikes and their preamps. The John Hardy was the fastest and leanest, but it was a little unnatural, so I chose the Bryston preamp, the most transparent of the other common pro units.
Try the Rane ME 60 in your audio system (not the later ME 60S which is more colored), on eBay for $200 or less. RCA outputs have unity gain, XLR, 6 dB. The quarter inch diameter rotary volume control is crude, which you could upgrade. Still, as is, a great line stage. I hope you experiment with the enormous EQ capabilities--up to 12 dB boost or cut for 30 one third octave bands from 20-20kHz. There are lots of overlaps in these parametric curves. Boosting exclusively from 8 kHz on up still brings out the buzz on cello and string bass, and removes lots of midrange mud on other instruments. Have fun, and give me feedback.
While I wait for the modded LSA Voyager to get back to me I am doing some comparisons with the Benchmark LA4 preamp and CODA 07x preamp connected to the CODA #8 amp and sourced by the Gustard X26 Pro DAC via XLR.
I love the LA4. The fact that it's sound is so clean and quiet and really lets you hear the source and amp. I was enjoying a lot of hard rock with it the last couple of days. It also took a few days to really open up (it is brand new). Just love this preamp.
I am now playing the brilliant Michael Kiwanuka - KIWANUKA album. On this album it is not even close the CODA 07x is brilliant and better than the LA4. I know the CODA is adding flavor to the sound but it is a tasty flavor. A shame for me since I was hoping to sell the 07x and help pay for the tuner upgrade I just did. The 07x is staying long term as is the LA4.
BTW - if I sell the Voyager it is to pay for my tuner upgrade.
Listening to Led Zeppelin - In Through the Out Door on both preamps. The LA4 is electric with this album the CODA 07x seems a little duller in comparison (an apples-to-apples comparison).
Along with the 07x, I will be also using the LA4 in evaluating the Voyager. The difference between my 2 preamps is so easy to hear with various recordings. Each is never really bad with any of the music I have been playing, but when some music works well, it is great.
I posted long ago that the Voyager did not work at all with the Topping pre90 that sounds a lot like the LA4. The gain was all messed up and not a useable combo. I have a feeling the LA4 will not have the same problems with the Voyager.
yyz, The neutrality/transparency of things like Benchmark is appreciated mainly intellectually rather than viscerally. On classical music, transparency is required to fully appreciate the complexities. In my violinist training, one master teacher explained to me how mere minute, fine differences separate great players from average ones, so accuracy and transparency has been my lifelong quest. But rock thrives on visceral, gross excitement. This is why audiophiles who mainly listen to rock seek euphonic, ballsy electronics with colors. Benchmark is unsatisfactory for these rock listeners, because it doesn't give "oomph" and so on. Unfortunately, electronics that feature oomph are usually deficient in clarity. So you find that on Zeppelin, the LA4 gives electric detail and excitement, but the CODA 07x is duller. The colors of euphonic electronics are really shaved off transients making the sound duller, whereas the natural colors of live unamped instruments have the real detail with excitement.
You could save money by selling all the euphonic Coda, Krell stuff. Perhaps the LA4 + modded Voyager will give you enough of the warmth you want. We'll see if LA4 + AHB2 is still the ultimate for most naturally recorded music.
@viber I cannot sell the KRELL because it is unmatched in sonic quality with the RAAL. Just the very best of a lot of gear I have tried on the RAAL, including using DSP with some of them. I am not using DSP with the KRELL. As I type this, I am listening to Lux Prima - by Karen O + Danger Mouse on the KRELL + RAAL and I have goosebumps.
You need to hear the RAAL to appreciate what I am talking about, It is not an easy piece of gear to get sounding great, but when you do I cannot recall many systems that sounded better. Next time the CanJam show goes up to NYC area try and have a listen.
I spent today trying to find a reason to keep the CODA 07x. As I mentioned in a prior post. There are some tunes that just are incredible on the CODA 07x, much better than the LA4. So the CODA 07x has to stay, irritants and all.
I am not sure why the LA4 works for me on a lot of rock music. Could just be how I hear things. Whatever the case, reconfiguring my gear today with wiring changes, I can see how everything I have purchased stays. It will actually be rather flexible and easy to use everything the way I am setting it all up now.
The Voyager also has a switch on the back to toggle the RCA and XLR inputs. My memory on this was refreshed today by a fellow poster here. I remembered that I had planned on using that feature with both preamps connected at the same time. Though Ric may get rid of that switch with his mods.
No, you should not connect both inputs at the same time. The switch is not directly in the signal path. It just shorts the negative input on the balanced connector to ground....so you can use a single ended input. If you hooked up two cables at the same time then the one source would also be driving the source of the other source.....he he....sorcery....not good. You need to unplug one and then plug the other in and set the switch to the one you want.....all with the unit unplugged or turned off.....of course.
That's still not a bad thing about the switch (and more useful than the shorting pins that came with the EVS 1200). In my case, I have an integrated AV system and if used for HT, even though my system is not the greatest for getting to the back of the equipment, it wouldn't be that hard to leave the RCAs coming from the receiver disconnected (and I don't need anything exotic for the RCA interconnects to watch a movie). Right now I have the Class D Audio GaN amp connected to a pair of military spec speaker wires and I just unplug those (and for safety just in case have a cheap pair of small bookshelves plugged in when not in use, which is the majority of the time, just in case the amp accidently gets turned on).
@chorus, 24 hours the sound got interesting. By 100 hours I saw noticeable improvement. Early on, the highs on some songs were a bit etched and irritating. 150 to 200 hours the sound plateaus at a high level. Any improvements beyond that time frame have not been noticeable to me.
Some people were asking me what the status of the modded Voyager. Ric sent it out last Thursday from the Bay Area, CA to be sent to me in Santa Barbara.CA. That is just a straight line 300 mile drive. FedEx has set the deliver date for Wednesday. Unbelievable.
I really hope the Voyager works like magic on my RAAL SR1a or Thiel CS3.7 in the office. I have new plans of getting the new RAAL lower end
SR2a headphone for my bedroom listening. This will work nicely (without needing to buy a headphone amp) if the Voyager works with the RAAL SR1a or Thiel.
FedEx is the worst. They delayed my shipment of Ric's modded Voyager again and now say this Thursday by the end of the day. I hope so because I am off to Texas this Friday morning.
So the way this stands for me now is that if the amp is delivered on Thursday I will try to have something setup to play the amp 24 hours a day until Sunday when I get back home. I will listen on Monday.
I have upgraded my FM tuner this month. The new one arrives on Monday and I now need to pay for it (always the tough part). I was thinking of selling the Voyager to do so but I am not going to do that immediately. I need to make a longer range decision whether I keep the CODA 07x preamp and Voyager or sell both to pay for the tuner and buy new RAAL tube amp for the SR1a and SR2a headphones. I believe FedEx or US customs destroyed this new RAAL tube amp that I went to hear (someone dropped it). So I now have to wait until November to hear it.
So keep that in mind when I give my feedback on the Voyager next week.
Sorry to hear about the shipping troubles. Over the years, I've actually had more problems from UPS but in the last several Fedex has made up lots of ground in that department. Unfortunately, I think they really don't care all that much about customer issues from my experience. Many years back I even called corporate headquarers (901-818-7500 - they are located at
942 S Shady Grove Rd, Memphis, TN 38120) and tried to talk to the national customer service representative and that didn't seem to get any better response as I wasn't even able to get connected to anyone.
yyz, Sorry to hear about your experience with Fedex. I shipped my Rouge amp to Jay last Wed, and he got it Mon afternoon, no problem. NYC to Fort Lauderdale area by Fedex ground in only 5 calendar days, not bad. There's lots of buzz about the shootout he will do around tomorrow. Follow it, and give your impressions, which will be blinded to all except Jay. As with his legendary Rossini/MSB shootout, he will reveal the identities of each amp later, so perhaps heads will roll.
I just got my @ricevs hot rodded LSA Voyager 350 GAN. First thing to notice is that the ON/OFF switch is no more. I forgot about that and now I need to juggle a bit to see how I can use the amp. My CODA 07x preamp is ALWAYS on and it also does not have an ON/OFF switch.
I have been playing Michael Kiwanuka - KIWANUKA everyday for the past few days because I like it a lot. The best sound I have had on this album was with the CODA 07x and CODA #8. There was a lushness and body to the sound that really drew me in. The Benchmark LA4 preamp and CODA #8 did not draw me in as the 07x, it was leaner sounding in comparison. This was the only album where I preferred the 07x over the LA4 in the past few days of listening. However, I was playing more hard rock these days which is great with the LA4.
So my next statement is of the Voyager cold out of the box and into my system replacing the CODA #8. I also changed the speaker cables to my inferior Audience Cionductor SE over the Audience FrontRpw. The FrontRow will not fit into the Voyager because it has SpeakON terminations. So I was listening to music in the past with the FrontRow.
I played the 4th song "This Kind of Love" first. There is some incredible clarity coming out of the Voyager. It seems more clear than the CODA #8. I need to test this out later but it seems like it. The clarity of the amp is definitely more than before the mods. I know that for certain. One of my complaints on the Voyager before the mod was a bit of a veiled sound compared to my AHB2 and CODA. The Voyager now seems to sound like the AHB2 with power. The CODA is maybe a bit more lush sounding but the Voyager is certainly not sounding dry.
I would not be surprised if my CODA #8 became the RAAL SR1a headphone amp in my office and the Voyager the Thiel CS3.7 amp. Earlier today, I moved the KRELL K-300i to my bedroom to be the headphone amp for the RAAL SR1a.
Prior to the mods, the Voyager was not that good with the RAAL SR1a compared to the CODA #8 and KRELL K-300i. I will test the RAAL out with the Voyager next week. Along with the LA4 preamp and Voyager.
THIS IS REALLY SOUNDING GREAT TO ME. I will get back to doing some comparisons next week when I get back home. Congrats @ricevs this is fantastic.
I like to play "When the Levee Breaks" by Zeppelin to evaluate gear. I am not sure I have heard it any better than on this modded Voyager. An AHB2 on steroids? Maybe.
One thing that the pre-modded Voyager was lacking compared to the CODA was the bass. I will compare that next week, though I do not seem bothered by this today.
Again with the toe tapping, I seem to do this the most with the Voyager, even before the mods.
I found the stock Voyager feet to soften the leading edge which also affects size and clarity of instruments and sound stage. I use Nobsound springs which are taller than the stock footers, so easy peasy. I started with 4, but now am using three, one directly under the power supply I also removed the top cover which rings when you tap it. I think Ric is placing deadening material
Tweak1, The above amazon link will show everyone who presses on it....their own history on amazon......not your history. Please show a link to the actual product you bought.
Here is a link to another version of what you have:
Using less of the footers (like Tweak1 is doing...three of them) and using less springs in each one will lower the resonance and probably give the best sound (tunable to taste).
Tweak 1’s error has us all springing into action.....he he.
So, yes.....use better footers under the Voyager.....the stock footers are muddy sounding.....and these sprang thangs are cheap. Other things might be better.......experiment.
Viber, so you briefly worshiped at the altar of the Tube God, with Harvey "Gizmo"?. My dream cult amp for a while. You must have fun audiophile stories in NYC then, between your monthly reads of the Audio Amateur and TubeGod pamphlets, and scoping out the rigs at Sounds by Singer.😍 Are they still prominent?
Got back from my trip to Texas and started playing the modded Voyager on my RAAL SR1a headphones. The Voyager was playing constantly while I was gone, my estimate is 72 hours of post mod burn-in.
In the past, my comments on the Voyager with the RAAL was that it was not a great combo, just OK. Something seemed off compared to the CODA #8, KRELL K-300i, and the Benchmark AHB2 (this required a SR1a specific Convolution filter running on ROON Core).
Today, I am running the Voyager without any Convolution filter to my CODA 07x preamp and RAAL SR1a. The sound is like the AHB2 but I do not need the Convolution filter to tame the highs. Just brilliant sound. Amongst the best sounding RAAL amps now, along with the CODA #8, KRELL K-300i, and AHB2 (with filter). There is less bass than with the KRELL but similar levels as the AHB2 and CODA #8.
I have not played the modded Voyager on my floor standers since I got back from my trip but based on my comments last Thursday I expect greatness (maybe more). I cannot test this now since the family is sleeping.
The fact that the Voyager sounds so goods with the RAAL and Thiel CS3.7 (on Thursday) is the best possible outcome. I can use either of the amps on either speaker and have great sound. This was not the case prior to the mod.
There were some posters earlier on this thread that were saying mods do not work and the comments by people like me are confirmation bias on the money spent. In my case, I have a few amps that I am comparing the mod with and I think I have a good baseline of where the pre-modded amp stood with respect to my other amps.
******************************
On Monday, I am taking a drive to the dealer that sold me the CODA 07x preamp and I will figure out once and for all if my preamp has an issue with hiss.
yyz, It seems that the modded Voyager still has rolled off HF compared to the AHB2, using the Coda 07X preamp. Can you compare the modded V + Benchmark LA 4 to the AHB2 + LA 4? The LA 4 is still the most revealing preamp.
Most relevant here, can you say how the modded V compares to the stock V? So far, it seems that the basic information retrieval gap remains between the AHB2 and V, modded or stock.
When you are ready, offer to send Jay your modded V. My stock Rouge is giving serious competition to Jay's undisclosed amp. My Rouge is more neutral, which some people don't like, but I predict that your V will give most people what they want with its slight warmth. This will show that some class D amps must be taken seriously and offer a practical and much cheaper alternative to big expensive amps for providing SOTA performance as well.
I don't believe that Jay's group will care much for AHB2 in either stereo or mono form. The AHB2 is not as dynamic as either my Rouge or your V.
derek_hawaii, No, I never had Harvey Rosenberg's amps, but only the last Futterman H3AA OTL monos. I started early with a Van Alstine modded Dyna Stereo 70. A Grant Lumley tube amp had much more definition. But I ditched tubes when I bought the Krell KSA 50 SS amp, which showed all these tube amps to be mushy and bloated. At the former Listening Room store in Scarsdale, NY, an ARC tube amp was also mushy and bloated compared to this Krell. I said goodbye to the tube world planet, and moved to the SS haven of Earth. Is there intelligent life in another galaxy? Maybe, and I wish I could afford to find out from auditioning powerful Atmasphere amps, probably the only intelligent form of tube life around.
The modded Voyager takes away some of the graininess of the stock Voyager. There is great clarity to the sound now. Sound seems to jump out of my speakers now. If you do not care for the warranty the mod is RECOMMENDED.
I drove 3 hours total to my CODA dealer in Los Angeles to finally get to the bottom of my CODA 07x issues. The dealer had another CODA 07x preamp hooked up to a CODA #16 amp in a nice recording studio. His 07x preamp was very silent. Not as silent as the LA4 but very close. When we put my 07x preamp in place of the dealers preamp it was obvious mine has some noise issues. I left my preamp at the dealer and they will get it resolved for me. So I no longer have the CODA 07x preamp to test with the Voyager.
I did manage to listen to the CODA #16 amp and that was pretty killer, a desert island amp. The dealer will likely give me 100% for my CODA #8 if I upgrade to the #16. There is a lot less graininess on the #16. The #16 sounds like an amalgamation of the Voyager, AHB2, and KRELL K-300i. The #16 has the first 100 watts in Class A. I got no money to upgrade now but that will be in the cards in the future.
The #16 is a great amp, better than the Voyager. The Voyager is comparable to the CODA #8. The CODA #8 is a little less clear but warmer than the Voyager. The Voyager is closer in clarity to the AHB2 but definitely warmer than the AHB2.
I am listening to the modded Voyager and LA4 now and it is excellent. A slightly warm but very clear sound. The Voyager and CODA #8 are competitors from what I am hearing but with a slightly different tone.
I listened to the song Piano Joint (This Kind of Love) (intro) and This Kind of Love (on KIWANUKA) on the CODA #8 + LA4 vs the CODA 07x and CODA #16 and there is a big difference. The #16 is so much smoother with more detail. I think the CODA #16 + the LA4 would also be a nice combo.
The 2 best amps I have now heard for my tastes are the AHB2 and CODA #16. With the KRELL, Voyager, and CODA #8 slightly behind. Though the AHB2 does not work that well with my Thiel CS3.7.
BTW - with the proper speaker power match for the AHB2 the amp is perfectly dynamic.
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