This Van Alstine just might fit the bill!!
Looking for an integrated amp to replace my Cayin A-50T
I currently have a Cayin A-50T integrated amp, and I recently had one of the EL34s die (due to age--not the amp...). Given the current tube shortage, I had to pay an inflated price for a new quad of tubes, which has caused me to consider a solid state integrated as a back-up initially, and based on the performance, possibly replace the Cayin. My speakers are Reynaud Euterpe Jubile (89dB/4 ohm) and my source is an Oppo 205.
I have no complaints whatsoever with the Cayin--just looking for a back-up and possibly get away from tubes in the future. As such, I am looking for SS integrated that would lean towards the same sonic signature--in the $1000-$2000 range. Since the Oppo has a volume control, I may be open to a power amp--in which case I would be open to an older well regarded model that I could perhaps obtain for a good price...
Regarding the integrated options--I only need a couple of inputs, and do not require a phono stage. Digital inputs are not a requirement, but could prove useful. I have been out of this for a while, so I am just getting back up to speed. If I had to choose today, I would go with a Cambridge CXA-81. The Rogue Sphinx or a Rotel are other options. perhaps a one of the Parasounds or something else I am not aware of?
Thanks in advance for all input/suggestions!
Bob
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The pertinent question is does this low priced amplifier sound even remotely close to the well regarded el34 tubed based Cayin? Okay, nice that it's very inexpensive but a moot point if it lacks good sound quality. Charles |
Not SS, but I am currently intrigued by this integrated: Primaluna Evolution EVO 100. As I get nervous about not being able to find tubes for my current setup. |
@yogiboy Thanks--I was looking to get a recommendation that was not on my radar, and this may well fit the bill--The price is such that I would be able to keep both amps. |
@jasonbourne52 Thanks! Another good recommendation of something I could at least have as a spare! |
@dekay I paid almost $200 for a quad of Tung-Sol EL34Bs--which is close to double what Jim McShane was selling them for before the shortage, and the same price that I paid him for a quad of GL KT77s 18 months ago. I would guess that they have about 1500 hours on them before one failed. |
@carlsbad Thanks--another possibility to check out! |
@panzrwagn Thanks--I have to admit that I initially dismissed Marantz (and other great products from the past) only because I assumed that the current products bear no resemblance to their predecessors. However, after doing a brief search, it is definitely worth checking out! |
@philgo01 Yep, that is my dilemma--either find something under $1000 for a spare, or spend more and replace. Before I purchased the Cayin, I had a Belles Aria that I got for a good price here on Audiogon. I prefer the Cayin, but I could live happily with something like the Belles. (I know--Why not buy another one? I would definitely consider it, but there appears to be a lot of other interesting options to try out...) |
I have had the pleasure to audition a Vincent SV-500 recently. Lower end of your price range. This does have three tubes in the preamp however--but they will last for many many years. This is a very well thought out integrated where money was wisely spent as far as parts selection goes. Build quality is excellent. But all this would mean nothing if it didn't sound good. IT DOES. I placed this is one of my systems where is displaced a $4000 integrated amp. Was I in a hurry to move back to my reference? Not at all. I was amazed by the generous sound stage this amp produced. It never sounded short on power. Amazing the kind of juice you can get out of a single pair of high quality output transistors! The amp is fundamentally neutral. Not at all veiled but no edge to the music (which I am intolerant of). Have not heard your amp but can't imagine you would not be pleased with this unit. On the other hand, if you just stuck with the Cayin I never viewed the cost of tubes even now a deal breaker. (I once had a tube integrated with 14 tubes--now that would be a deal breaker). |
+Van Alstine I'd check out Klaus' Cyclops ... highly regarded by owners: Odyssey Audio Concur @jasonbourne52 ... Shenzhen Audio putting out some ridiculously silent equipment at equally ridiculous prices. I have one of their DACs ... it's better than I deserve
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Hmmm, not sure you could beat your Cayin with a SS amp in your price range. I've been pleasantly surprised with the Naim XS 3, so if the Nait 5i sounds close to the XS, it's worth your time. To my ears the XS3 sounds warmer than Luxman class A. I have no idea if this is the case with the Nait 5. Exposure 2510 is supposed to be on the warm, so perhaps that could be another. Art Dudley gave the previous generation Exposure (2010) a glowing review. |
Just checked TS prices today and matched quads "in stock" were $270-$360+, so you got a deal. I would just hang in until you are able to go out and audition SS amps. I need to audition the new Heed, I mentioned, as the one I liked was a 10 year old model. I have a couple of 15+ year old Sharp mini systems (class D amp section) that sound surprisingly good with my vintage wide range single drivers - when I run my TT/good CD deck through the aux inputs. Not supposed to happen (from what I've read) pushing 16 ohm speakers, but weird things happen. Didn't even realize they were Class D until a few months ago.
DeKay
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@corelli Exactly. I'm sure some are just parroting what they have read on the internet. I recommened an amp I own and described why I though the sound would be a good suggestion. |
My 2 cents: it will be very difficult to get tube-like sound from a SS amp without paying $$$. I had a Cayin CS100a which I sold and I briefly tried SS amplification for the same reasons (no more tubes, less maintenance, etc). After 3 months I sold the SS amp and bought a Qualiton X200. I get the concern about the prices of tubes now, I purchased a Tung-Sol quad KT170 for $450 in December 2021, the price now for a quad KT170 on Viva Tubes is $1,600! I really hope that the lack of supply will be a temporary situation and that tube prices will go back to normal after the madness of the war is over. Time will tell, I'm just glad that the rest of us are living our lives in safety. |
@chipcalzone I hear you...I will more than likely keep the Cayin and use the other one as a spare--So that I am not forced to pay the premium prices, Who would have thought we would be paying NOS prices for new production?? Even though I don't like the prices, at least Viva has tubes available for sale. Upscale Audio had to shut down/limit sales to 1 tube per month because of hoarding, and I have not gotten a response from Jim McShane to an inquiry I sent over a month ago. I was able to get a quad from my fourth choice (The Tubestore) for a relatively sane price... |
Thanks for all of the suggestions--especially the ones that were not on my radar!
I do have a question regarding the internal DAC on some of these--It is not a "must have" at all, but I could foresee a use for it. I am curious as to how the Schiit Ragnarok or even the Vincent would compare to my Oppo 205--given the fact that it is now 5 years old? |
@pretender - I have the answer for you: Jolida JD1501 RC. It's a hybrid. So if you love your Cayin (I have two), you'll love the 1501. You can roll the preamp tubes to your heart's desire. But I'll save you some time -- get a pair of vintage Telefunken 12AX7's. You're welcome! Lol! 😁 |
So, limited help here, but I found my "anchor" speakers: Sonus Faber Signums (4 ohms) and tried a Heaven 11 Billie integrated. Tube pre and Class D output. Sounded wonderful... to a point. It just didn't have the muscle to full release the speaker's potential. Note, I'm mostly a low-volume listener. Counterintuitively, I went with an Audio Research VSi60 (from TMR, great service, FYI). Way less power, but the right kind of power. I'd find it difficult to return to solid state, but I'm sure there are better amps than I've heard, I'm still learning. The newer Belles and Kinki Studio have gotten rave reviews, and certainly Hegel is worth a mention. But in case you're curious Heaven 11 had just gone through an upgrade to considerably more power. Best of luck. https://heaven11audio.com/billie-amp-stereo-intergrated-amplifier/
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How about a hybrid like the Rogue Sphinx integrated amplifier. The current amplifier is the V3, but all three generations are fairly recent and sound outstanding! There is one in the listening room at my local Hi-fi store. It has sounded great with every pair of speakers that I have heard. At 100 W per channel it will not disappoint you. It takes a pair of small input tubes in the preamplifier section which will last for years!
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I cannot recommend anything but a tube integrated. Have you tried KT77 tubes? I was shocked. More power as in dynamics, everything is just better. Solid deep bass, clear high and detail I did not have with the EL34s, which were excellent to begin with. I run a Primaluna which is very well made and I will never look back. |
Your running (89dB/4 ohm) speakers with a Cayin A-50T? It's a miracle your driver tubes lasted as long as they did!!! What a load. Power handling capability according to the manufactor is 40-120 watts. If there was ever a case of pulling a rail car (your speakers), with a Shetland Pony (your Cayin), instead of a 1/4 horse, or better yet a draft horse, this is it. It's a good thing you are using a tube amp instead of a SS amp, because the likelyhood of you clipping your speakers to death by now is very high. $1000-$2000 isn't much of a budget to drive (89dB/4 ohm) speakers, unless you go used, & even then. In a SS amp look for something with a massive power supply, with 120-200 watts of power. Not only will this give you impact at any volume, low or high (caveat, SS amps have a smaller sweet spot than tube amps), it will also give you the safety of "head room" so you don't clip/(damage) your speakers, or your amp. If you can find a used Bryston B100 Integrated Amplifier, or a Krell KAV-300i Integrated Amplifier, you will have an integrated SS amp that will realize the Stradivarius violin potential laying in your Reynaud's, that can safely run those thirsty speakers for years to come. Enjoy the experience.
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You might consider finding a used hybrid integrated amplifier having tubes in the preamp stage. Not as costly as output tubes and last longer. The SS amplifier stage can produce more power which your speakers may appreciate (depends on size of room). I believe you could find one used that would allow keeping both integrated amplifiers. A used Pathos Model One MKII, Vincent Audio 226MK or 236MK, Rogue Sphinx (class D) as examples. |
@thehorn I was a bit surprised by your assessment that my speakers are hard to drive--I was of the thought that they were average compared to something like Thiels. Although, I can understand where you are coming from--given your moniker. However, I appreciate your input and it will definitely have an influence on my decision--I have gone from looking for a spare amp to searching for a replacement for the Cayin. Nevertheless, I would prefer to purchase something new, and I was close to choosing the Schiit Ragnarok. Given your comments I am not ruling out: 1) AVA Vision SET 120 2) Rogue Sphinx 3) Cambridge CXA-81 Interested in your thoughts regarding these alternatives. My primary reason for leaning toward the Ragnarok, is it that I may be interested in purchasing one of their DACs--and it appears as though there is a special synergy between their products. (It does have a 600VA transformer...) Also, as an aside--I find it interesting that nobody has suggested one of the Parasound integrateds... |
Avoid Odyssey like the plague. Worst customer support in the industry. The Rogue Sphinx is underpowered doo-doo and measures like it as well. Note how often they show up on the pre-owned market. It doesn’t sound anything like a tube amp. If you recall the thin, weak, fatiguing class D sound of the early 2000s, that’s the Rogue Sphinx in a nutshell. The Rega Elex-R is one of the best sounding and dynamic SS integrateds under $2K. Yeah it has a built-in phono stage but what does that matter when it sounds as good as some of the $5K competitors? If you want a SS amp that performs well in emulating tube sound, the Yamaha A-S1100 or 2100 are hard to beat. Again, ignore the fact it may have useless add-ons. It’s the sound that matters. I’m a fellow Cayin tube amp owner. I’ve heard many SS integrateds in this price range and the only one that has come remotely close to the Cayin is an A-S1100. The Rogue Cronus Magnum is good (beats pants off the Sphinx) but is noisier than your Cayin.
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@helomech Thanks--Your experiences mirrors mine to some extent. Years ago, I had an Odyssey product--I can’t remember the details, but I do recall the poor customer service. I also had a Cronus Magnum for a brief period, and I liked it a lot--However, it had a hum that I could not get rid of. As a matter of fact, I traded in a Cayin A-50T that was dead quiet. The dealer would have been willing to send it back, but he sold it the first day. So--I ended up buying another one. Based on your assessment, that pretty much rules out Rogue for me. I have to admit that I never even considered a Yamaha--if for no other reason than I figured that now it was Yamaha in name only--like so many other great brands from the past. Since as a Cayin owner you know of what you speak, I will take a look at them. I understand that Vincent is coming out with a new integrated (SV-228) that I want to also check out. I just so happen to be in the same area as Audio Advisor, who carries several of brands I am considering. I can’t go there to listen, but it is convenient for returning/exchanging--So if comes down to 2 similar amps, I would prefer to purchase the one that they carry. |
Regarding the Yamaha sound, compared to my Cayin, it’s somewhat a matter of trade-offs. I’d say midrange is about equal but the Yamaha’s bass is deeper and it has greater overall resolution. The Cayin has the upper hand in soundstage width/depth and 3D-effect, but not by a huge margin in back-to-back A/B. The Cayin also produces more of those pleasant harmonic distortions, the such that can make electric guitars sound a little more realistic, but that’s to be expected, and also dependent on the amp’s bias setting. The Yamahas (MOSFET versions) have a lush/saturated tonality that one doesn’t typically associate with SS. Think of it like a TV with its color saturation turned up to around 70/100. It also has a slight “V-curve” presentation, so speaker matching does matter. Yamaha may not quite be the company it was in the 70s but they do employ their own in-house design team and own/operate their factories independently. They use higher quality parts than many competitors as well. The Rega Elex-R is a little more neutral and warm, with that “PRaT” that British gear is known for. I’m not familiar with the higher priced Regas. Apparently they are going to release the new Elicit in the near future and that one would be on my radar if I were in the market. I know Audio Advisor sold them at one time so may be worth checking out. I have no familiarity with Vincent gear but it appears well made. Since you asked about Parasound, I owned the original Hint for a stint. It is a very nice sounding integrated. Mine had some low-level hum (lower than Cronus) but otherwise it was a good performer, and very powerful. It can drive nearly any speaker with a bold, meaty presentation. Hopefully they addressed any inherent noise issues in the Hint 6 revision. My only other nitpick is that it sounded a little slow with some music compared to the Yamahas. Parasound also uses inferior parts quality in that entry-level Halo line. The stuff with Curl’s name on it has better parts. Parasound does have some of the best customer support and their stuff is serviced in CA. Best of luck. Those Cayins are hard to match or surpass without getting into decent separates IME. |
Hey Pretender, As for the Schiit Ragnarok, or the AVA Vision SET 120, not my beat. I got nada. As for Cambridge ... I'd group them in with Rotel & the like, meaning IMHO your Reynaud's deserve better upstream components. As for Rogue Sphinx, I'm not familiar with that model. I am familiar with Rogue's Cronus Magnum, but now you're back to tubes. That said, the emphasis on the Cronus above it's other attributes was it's value for the money, not it being part of a sonic coterie. Potentially this could be altered to a given degree by swapping out the pre-amp tubes with NOS tubes, and then again with a snob capacitor upgrade. But there goes your budget. Parasound .... you're onto something there. John Curl has a reputation for a reason. Question is which one of his designs is optimal for your application. The Halo Hint 6 integrated amplifier is there premiere piece, but you may be using an elephant gun on an elk hunt. They're NewClassic 200 Integrated might suit your application better. Take note that Hi-FI sound shines when it's being pushed to a given degree.In choosing your purchase concern yourself less with features. Instead steer towards quality of power supply, type of capacitors, transformers being used, binding posts. Contact a Parasound Rep, gettem on the phone, build a rapport, lay out your questions, and tell him you want the best without being up sold.This is all dependant on your listening room. If you have a fair sized dedicated sound room with better than average acoustics, knock yourself out. You can justify the added effort/time and expense. If you're in an L shaped room, or your gear is being put in the wife's tightly packed Victorian tea room, save your money, the results won't be there. |
@thehorn Thanks! I do have a dedicated/treated room with no windows, albeit on the smallish side—12 x 14… |
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