Looking at best option for 20-25k for DAC Streamer combo

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I bought the MSB Discrete with dual power supplies and renderer.  So far very happy!

Congratulations.
 

Exactly which MSB version did you go with? There seems to be lots of options.

I’ve been burning in the DAC for about a 10 days.  I’ve also upgraded the cables to Wireworld platinum 8.  The sound is a nice improvement to the X1.  The sound is very natural and both vocals and instruments sound like they are in the room.  The soundstage is both taller and wider.  Instruments seem to be suspended in air with clear separation of the instruments.  The only downside is that my wife says I never leave the room.  She’s always been supportive of my passion, but she said I have to be social at Christmas!

I disagree with Benzan’s response. I’m not sure what he is running with his DAC Stramer but I’ve owned the Bricasti M3. The Cary DMS 700 is equivalent to it. The Cary DMS 800PV is at another level. To get to similar levels, you would need to step up the the Boulder 2021 DAC , MSB or DCS Systems. What frustrates folks is when a unit is not reliable especially with streaming units I like to listen to my music, not wondering if the unit is going to have a glitch. Just my preference. I run it with top of the line Boulder gear including a Boulder 2021 DAC. With the Cary, I don’t need to run it to my DAC because it sounds that good. I could if I wanted to but I don’t. Hope that helps. 

I have to believe the Cary’s are not going to be what you are looking for. I moved

on from a Cary DMS 700 to a Bricasti M3 and they are in different leagues. Cary’s will always sound nice but not get you that last 10% of resolution or dynamics. 
The Cary’s are definitely Jack of all trades with an unmatched feature set but for high end sonics there is much better. 
 

I would definitely consider the Cary Audio DMS 700 or the DMS 800 Pro. Very hard to beat. Check out the reviews. It definitely won’t disappoint.

As mentioned above, keep the Lumin to stream and add the Chord M-Scaler and Chord DAVE.

Not mentioned yet is the Cary DMS 800PV. It is a fantastic Streamer/DAC flagship piece. Great sound and fully balanced unit. Coming in at just under $12k at Carydirect.com

Really like the natural sound of the Aqua Formula DAC (about$15,000), fed by an Innuos Zenith MK3 streamer (about $4,700 with 1TB). Roon capable. 1TB storage is 30% consumed by my loading about 5-600 CD's as WAV files. I'm not running the Innuos Phoenix clocker (probably my next purchase); however, the Innuos "Statement" (around $15,000) includes the clocker. This combo allows my DarTZeel LHC-208 integrated to really shine (using PMC Fact 12 speakers). I can only describe what I'm hearing as organic. Also, the Aqua DACs are upgradeable (before I purchased the Aqua Formula, I had an Aqua Voce S2, which I had upgraded to their S3 version). 

Oh yes. I agree, also listen to the Linn Klimax DS Katalyst ($27K). It is a streamer / DAC and sounds amazing. I guess Linn really put a lot into R&D over the last decade. Their digital stuff sounds great.

@kairosman I found the MSB DAC to be more natural sounding, had better separation between instruments and vocals as well as less fatiguing than the Lumin X1.  Only by a small margin, but enough for me to make a change.

I vote for the DCS Bartok.  At least in my system (D’Agostino integrated amp and Sabrina X speakers, the Bartok was more revealing and had a better soundstage than the usual suspects in this price point.

the optional headphone amp is good but doesn’t hold up to some of the freestanding options that are also available. IMHO

Try to find used CH C1 dac. It is one of the best DACs ever made. 

@gelfdaddy how would you characterize the main differences between the X1 and the MSB? I am considering MSB as well and currently have the Lumin P1...

@tontoverde +1 on your choice of MSB. I recently made the move from a Lumin X1 to MSB Discrete DAC/Streamer with dual power supplies after having both in my home and A/B testing them. The Lumin X1 is a wonderful DAC/Streamer and I would have likely not made a change had I not been able to do the A/B test. That said, I prefer the sound of the MSB and am glad I made the change. 

@tontoverde You made an excellent choice.  MSB was going to be my recommendation.  What color are you getting, black or silver?

Let us know how you like it after you get it set up.

I decided to go with the MSB a direct with streamer and dual power supplies.  I like the MSB sound and wanted to try an R2R DAC.  I was also interested in their trade up plan for down the road.  Thank you for all of your great responses.  There are a lot of good options!

Linn Selekt DSM with Organic DAC.….within you budget

Have you looked at the Cary Audio DMS 800?

You should audition the Wyred4Sound 10th anniversary dac, the reviews have been stellar, one of the reviewers put it up against his VPI turntable with a $5,000 Japanese cartridge and he said that the 10th anniversary dac was every bit as analog sounding, and the company even gives you a 30-day trial period if you don't like it send it back and you can get your money back I've got it and I agree it's the most analog sounding dac that I've ever had in my system, and my system is no slouch it's worth $60,000.

Typically at this price range one would do a different DAC and streamer. I think if I was doing this I would do a Audio Research DAC 9 and a Aurender N20. If you like detail over musicality I would try the Berkeley 3 Alpha DAC and the Aurender N20.

You can see my systems under my UserID.

At your level I think you’re much better off going with a separate streamer and DAC. A streamer from the likes of Wolf or Grimm coupled with the DAC that matches best with your tastes/system would be the way I’d go. Denafrips Terminator 2 or Mojo Audio Mystique wouldn’t be bad places to start looking IMHO. Best of luck.

https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lisb0g2a-bartok-music-servers-docks

DCS Bartok - With the new update the sound is detailed and natural. They pop up used occasionally here.

I loved it…!

+1 for the Brinkmann Nyquist. One of the best purchases I have ever made.

I use mine with a Innuos Zenith/Roon.

Bob

Brinkmann Nyquist II fits your budget and proclivity for one box….. 

Linn Selekt DSM

That’s what we specialize in - www.LinnKasa.com

I would purchase separates in that price range. As for a DAC, look into the Aries Cerat line (Helene or Kassandra II). Their build/design philosophy is far different from the pack. Pair this with a nice streamer; you are good for ten years!

Perhaps one of the Playback Designs units.

Go for a MSB Discrete DAC with a Premier Power base and a renderer module. Great sound and reliability. 

In your price range, check out Grimm Audio MU1 and AQUA Formula xHD + LinQ. I am currently using Merging Technologies +player ($14K). The +player is a Ethernet based DAC plus Roon Player and Core (no external server needed for Core) offers modular upgrades at your pace. Given your current system, Merging would be one of those end game DAC/Roon player, once you add external power supply ($9K) and clock ($19.5). Check out my ‘Digital’ system under my user name. Feel free to PM me, if you have any questions. 

@tontoverde Also rereading your post, another option to consider if you like to spin discs is the T+A MP 3100 HV, which contains a trickle down of the reference DAC and streamer that I mentioned above with a high quality SACD transport. This unit has no preamp and retails $22,275. 

Tonto, just curious but where do you feel the X1 is deficient or in need of improvement?

i have a burmester 151mk2 streamer/dac, it sounds wonderful, i would add this to your list

I invested a lot of time listening to digital front ends recently and my recommendation would be slightly off the norm:

Keep the Lumin as a streamer (I like the Lumin x1, it’s a very decent, nice sounding product!). IRC, it sounds good & is user friendly.

Buy a re-clocker / regenerator. IMO Ideon Audio makes the best ones; a mid-level model ("Master Time") will set you back around 5k, the top model about double that. This simple device transformed my sound

Then, get a high performance DAC and you’re set. The same company has a mid-range DAC called ION that I heard in Munich; it sounded very good (by which I mean definitely hi-end, commensurate with the level of your CH pre). In a DAC only iteration the Ion probably costs less than 15k, well within your budget for both. In fact, at your budget lvel you could opt for the "Absolute Time" which has SPDIF as well as USB inputs & accommodate your old cdp as well (if you have one).

You plug the streamer output into the "Time" and from there onto the DAC.

Linn Klimax DSM

But it is way over your budget