Lets replace my Klipsch La Scala Speakers
I think synergy with the rest of your gear matters big time with speakers, and the surprising match (surprising because I hadn't been paying attention to Klipsch stuff) that Heresy IIIs have with my little Dennis Had SE tube amp could explain a lot, and was somewhat accidentally realized although I'd heard a pair of Heresys through a relatively low powered amp before I bought 'em...I get mapman's comment about the appealing fact that they're not typical Round Drivers in a Box that we've all owned, and the Spacial speakers also seem cool for that reason, although the Spacial's 4ohms and 93db efficiency likely won't as perfect a match for my rig than the Heresy IIIs provide...and they (the Heresys) check all the boxes for coherency, tonal accuracy, and esthetic qualities I like. Although I have been a professional "rock" musician for decades, the delicacy and detail of classical and jazz is what I listen to most, and these speakers/system get that amazingly well, as with anything else I blow through them. I also own a pair of older KEF Q10s that still are great sounding monitors/second system speakers, and they show no signs of age, unlike myself. |
So after some listening to the Heresy II, I have decided to keep them. They are a better fit for the room, and are fantastic in my setup! I Love that I can keep the klipsch heritage sound in my music room. They are fun speakers for sure and will need a few things to make them even better. caps in the crossovers, some basic room treatments etc, but for now they are awesome and aren't going anywhere. I also jumped on a pair of Focal Aria 926 speakers that I just got last night. So where have these speakers been all of my life! I was skeptical when I ordered them but they fit the room, and with only have 2 hours of play time on them so far I just can't imagine them getting better after the 20-100 hour break in. It is to early to give complete impressions but they do everything I wanted a speaker to do in my room so far.... |
So here is what happened over the weekend: A friend let me bring his Heresy 2 home. Hooked them up and dialed them in and Talk about awesome for my room. They are better and worse than the La Scalas but ultimately they are a better fit for the room. They are warm and detailed vs shrill and in your face. They need the crossovers updated but I am really happy with the sound and glad they might stick around. I like the Klipsch sound. I also came across an amazing deal on a set of Focal 926 that should do well in my room until I can make a decision on what I want to do long term. They should be here in a week. Focals seem like they are going to be a good fit. With both of these speakers in the stable, I can relax a little and be patient looking for the perfect speaker for my space, or who knows maybe one of these will be it. Thanks for the suggestions and insight so far everyone. |
With all of my mods and updates, my latest pair of Lascalas offers me an open window to whatever I play through them. They are truly invisible and do not have a sound of their own. Classical piano, violin and orchestra, Miles, Jimi, Sinatra, Sarah Vaughn, it does not matter what I play. I do sit 12 feet away, and the presentation is very coherent, as I do not hear discontinuity between the bass, mids and treble, something I cannot say about Altec 19s, or other horn hybrids ( although I would still rather own horn hybrids over other types of speakers ). And as I have mentioned before, live unamplified music does not have compression, and most non horn speakers do ( imo, ime ). To each his / her own. Enjoy ! MrD. |
When you can't do more fixing. Active DSP (manual) + the right speakers = great bass also in smaller and square rooms. But you have to work with it. Most big speakers seems not made to be played in a room at all because they have no means to control the bass. Note! Anti-mode and other professional DSP work in the digital domain (but can also work in the analog). |
Gents, equalizers or DSP can do a lot, assuming that you are willing to put up with the extra analog-digital-analog conversion. But an equalizer CANNOT compensate for either a bad room ratio (square) and too much speaker in too small a room. DSP can help with the square space but still can't completely fix pumping too much energy into too little volume. Fix the room and match the speakers to the room or accept the compromise. Everything else is a waste of time and money. |
I find Klipsch speakers have a THEY are HERE, rather than YOU are THERE experience. Interesting comment that kinda rings true for me. I’ve been there and done "you are there" to my satisfaction for quite awhile now, but Klipsch continues to capture my interest in that they are somewhat unique and different. I like to try different things. Maybe that is the appeal for me. The size involved with the Legacy Klipsch in general is not appealing to me though at this point. I am way more interested in downsizing, making things smaller and easier to deal with without losing the zing, than having more big heavy things to find room for and handle. I did add a Klipsch subwoofer in one room with my monitors last year but I chose the Klipsch sw308 sub because it delivers a lot of extended bass out of a small box, compared to most, by using a 8" driver and two 8" passive radiators . Also I tend to get smitten best by speakers that deliver coherent sound. These days for example that means the OHM Walshes and I also recently added a pair of KEF ls50s (used with the sw308 sub in a smaller room). I do like the KEFs and their UniQ driver. |
@dmdalton Decware DM944 are currently on music duty since I moved the La Scalas out. I like the ribbon tweeter and they image really well. I should have some of the Heresy II this weekend and give them a go with a sub I have. I really don't want a sub in the room. mainly due to lack of floor space. Ultimately I want a floor standing full range speaker that is either sealed or front ported so they can go closer to the wall. I am leaning toward the Tannoy speakers. I am not sure the line yet. I love vintage but the idea of buying new and having a trial is appealing as well. In the newer range of Tannoys I was looking at the XT8F. Has anyone compared these to the older line of Tannoys? Would there be a benefit to going vintage vs. new? @kink56 I had Forte 1 and wish I still had them so I could compare in the room configuration now. Did you like the mid horn better on the Forte II vs the Cornwall, or what was your deciding factor to go Forte II vs. Cornwall? Thanks for all the help so far everyone! |
I find Klipsch speakers have a THEY are HERE, rather than YOU are THERE experience. Two suggestions in the Klipsch realm: Cornwall or Forte. My first choice would be Forte II from the 1990s. (I have or have had Belle, Cornwall, Cornwall III, Heresy II, Heresy III, Forte I, Forte II and Forte III. I could not tolerate Belles due to cabinet resonance around 120-150Hz. The Cornwall has bass extension the La Scala does not, and is warmer in the mids. But for mids and decent bass, I say Forte II. And Crites Ti tweeters and his crossover makes them even better. You are well under $2500 going that way, probably under $1500. |
Simply answered: I think a Tannoy DC speaker would be great for your smallish room - you are essentially sitting 'near field' and Tannoy Gold Monitor drivers or HPD's (as previously suggested: Arden? Berkley? even the Prestige line (NOT GRF or Westies!!) would fit nicely - remember, the Dual Concentrics were offered as drivers for use in many applications, often studio monitoring. For those who say they don't rock? I don't understand: Abbey Road used them for many years, as did many studios. I digress. I'm really suggesting the Tannoy DC's, or any coax speaker (read: KEF?) as the coherence of drivers and time alignment at close distances may be what your are missing with your current setup. KEF has some nice options, and potentially more in your price range. If you go for a used Tannoy - remember the crossovers with the Gold and HPD drivers will be 40 years old: upgrade the caps or the whole crossover as I did with my Gold's (I'm a fan of Reference Fidelity Components - the best for Tannoy xovers, IMHO) All of that said: I'm throwing another vote with 'your room is pretty small' for the La Scala's. I don't quite follow your logic for buying speakers for a house/room which you'll be selling in a years time...but that's not your question, and none of my business :) |
I had a similar problem with the Cornscalas I built. I couldn’t really enjoy them until I moved a few years ago and now have a 14’x22’ listening room. What worked well in my previous small 12’x12’ listening room was Decware ERRx’s. They are a radial full range speaker with a nice ribbon tweeter and no crossover other than a resistor to tame the tweeter. They sound best to me out in the room a little and have enough bass that I don’t wish for a subwoofer. |
TNK1998, I would agree with an earlier responder in that you might try an equalizer. It is more to correct the room than the speaker. You don't want to lose that "live sound" quality but want to temper the shrill. Use it judiciously. Try a 31 band model if you are concerned about the broad brushes of wider bandwidth (fewer bands) models. I have done this with a room that is much smaller - 12x9x7 - (although not with horn speakers) and with a few subtle adjustments the balance improvement is night and day. And... way less than $2,500! It really depends on how much you love and want to keep your Klipsch speakers. Good luck! |
" 12X13X12 " Your room is tiny for those speakers. For my Klipschorns I needed a minimum of 30x40x35. Wilsons had the "hole in the middle" issue. Horns are auditorium speakers (not to be mistaken with home theatre). Yes, home auditorium. Unless you have a room that size or preferably larger. You are wasting your time. Get something that is more suited for smaller rooms like Wilsons. With Wilsons one is listening to the drivers. They are all like giant "headphones." "Voicing" is one of the most difficult challenges. It is the reason why I have Klipschorns in one room, Martin Logans in another, and I am in the market for Wilson Alexandrias in my home office. Best of luck. |
@schubert "Tannoy is a Symphony , Klipsch is a rock band ." Which is why some of us are curious about the legend of Klipsch. Berkeley's are simply wonderful, and if the bigger Arden's are even better.. Sure there are some reports of a slightly raucous treble, but it can be very easily treated. Some high resolution loudspeakers can all too easily let you hear what's wrong with them (along with all that's right). Almost all of the Tannoys I have heard have sounded beautifully balanced, but for sure there will be better, more kick-ass loudspeakers out there for Rock. |
+ Omega, + Living Voice A good friend of mine has La scalas and I totally understand what you are talking about. I had the opportunity to try a set of Omega SAM’s in my system and was quite surprised at what they do. some of the best imaging and musicality I have ever heard. The SAM’s may be a little bass shy I would look at the High Output versions with dual drivers. I own a set of Living Voice speakers form the UK and they also are a very musical, detailed (but not in your face sort of way) and a large involving sound stage (should be able to fide a used set in your price range if that interests you). some also mentioned Proac’s and I would also give a + + to anything they make (I’ve not heard a set I didn’t like). |
Sorry, late to the party again. IMO your room is waaay to small for La Scalas. Before spending more money I would try a pair of Heresy IIIs. Use them stock on the floor, tilted). If you like the Klipsch house sound (albeit minus the shrillness) you might be very happy. There are a lot of single driver speakers that will work great, some more to your taste and some not as much. Heavy rock is going to be a problem in a small, essentially square room. Maybe headphone for that? |
You can try Altec speakers on vintage market, like co-axial 604 and 605 or 15 inch bass driver + big metal horn: Model 19, Valencia, Corona,... >"Here is what I liked: >Huge soundstage >You are there live at times when listening >Love being able to hear the detail they offer >Love the bass when present" >Here is what I disliked: >They can get shrill quick >They are so revealing music can sound just bad (I realize that should be >a positive, but it isn’t) >Very bass shy >They aren’t "warm" at all. There is no real thickness to the mids. Detail, >but not thick. Altec speakers have similar strength that you mentioned above. They also can sound very loud and dynamic from 7 watt SET (vintage and modern Tannoy and JBL will never work well with 7 watt SET). But they shrill much less compared to Klipsch La Scala. They can sound warm with thickness to the mids and have better, more natural tone. |
And for the record, I would not switch to anything mentioned above. I would need to spend much more, to give me more. As far as a rock speaker, there is not a type of music that my system cannot handle, from low level late night listening to...….whatever. I say this. I immerse myself in the music, not thinking of what change to make next. This is an amazing, and grateful place to be, in this audio journey of ours. For " what I want ", in my current listening environment, there is nothing that can do, " for me ", what my Lascalas can do ( except for the new Lascala AL5s, with my Dynamat mods ). I hope others can feel the same way about their listening rooms. |
I am hoping the OP follows some of my Dynamat mods, because after he does, he will be hearing the Lascalas for the 1st time. After this, if he does not like them, I will drive down from Central Florida and pick them up ( if the price is right ). I plan on stacking them. Of course, I likely have more mods done to mine, but I just listened to some Keb"Mo, and he and his band members shared the front half of my room with me. Enjoy ! MrD. |
When it comes to efficiency most Tannoy Dual Concentrics will fit the bill as a replacement for the Scala's. Whether you can find something from the current Prestige or Legacy ranges or even pick up a vintage Arden or Berkeley you cannot go far wrong. Placement is fairly straightforward as long as you get the tweeter level with ear height. There are many things wrong with the Tannoy sound, but I find there is something gloriously right about it. Difficult to describe, but it just sounds familiar and correct in the mids. Probably not as ambitious a sound as the Klipsch's but generations of Tannoy lovers don't seem to mind. |
It sounds to me like you just don't love the Klipsch Heritage sound anymore. I dont think you'll like the Hereseys either. But, I'm just telling you my experience. As much as I love my KEFs I have never been so surprised by a speaker as the JBL Studio series. They're very hard to find now and people are paying over original MSRP in my circumstances for a reason. |
Its been mentioned a few times. Yes the La Scalas are too big for the room. That is part of the reason they sound so bad and must go. There are some really good speakers that have been suggested. I have a friend down the road with some Heresy II that I am going to try with a sub and see. I do like the Klipsch sound but it needs to be scaled down to the room. I am also going to compile a list and start listing / looking at reviews of speakers. Thanks to everyone so far for the suggestions! |
Long term Klipsch lover here and owned the La Scalas and I can agree with your assessment. I never though I'd be ok with a non-horned speaker but, to my surprise, I bought a pair of KEF R900s and have loved every second of them. They're so pleasant to listen to compared to the Klipsches which required beer. I would also look very strongly at the JBL Studio line. I just got a pair of their bookshelves and I'm absolutely floored by them. In fact, I unhooked the kefs to listen to the JBLs for the past few weeks. Constantly impressed. You'll want to look at the JBL Studio 590s for big floorstandings with solid bass extension. |
Those are huge speakers for that room. I’ve listened to La Scalas in a large sound treated dealer showroom and they hurt my ears. I like and own a lot of klipsch speakers, but don’t care for the La Scalas. I think the recommendations to downsize to Heresy are good or look at some small monitors and a small sub. I just picked up a pair of used Focal Electra 1008 BE speakers for my similarly sized computer room and they are the best monitors I’ve owned. I’m sure there are a lot of other great choices in that price range. I did have my Heresy I speakers in this room and they were a little too much for that space. They're in my office now which is a bit larger and sound great there. The Focals replaced Canton Vento Reference 9.2 DC speakers. Those are great also but the Focals beat them. The Cantons are currently on sale at accessories 4 less. |
Wharfedale.....good speakers at reasonable prices, what's not to like. Warm sounding, never shrill....inexpensive, in this case, does not mean inferior sound. All imo. I own both the diamond 10.1 and the 225's and both are just fantastic. They both do well in an a budget system as well as an expensive one. I also agree that the tannoys would be a great choice...at a significant increase in cost however.... |
The SOUND you are looking for comes only from a Magnepan speaker. Unfortunately, your amp may not drive them. Try some of the less-expensive ones with a sub since you like big rather than accurate bass. (I know, in live concerts, rock bands kick-up the bass so everyone in the stadium can feel it. That ain't music, but you may like it. Get the sub and see.) BET you like them if you want "live soundstage" sound. Cheers! |
