Klipsch speaker choices

The Klipsch RF-3 are OK speakers, but really more home theater speakers than "audiophile" speakers.  The RF-7 are better, but still not in the same league with the Heritage series.  The Heritage series are a 3 driver design and have a richer sound and better constructed cabinets.  There's definitely a difference in sound quality. 

If you are looking for something more laid back, the Heritage series will be the opposite of that.  They will have better integration of the bass, mid, and treble, but will also be more dynamic, which to some ears equals "edgy".  

Your room and amplification will have a lot to do with how the Klipsch sound to you.  If you go listen to them at a dealer they are probably going to have a nice sound damped room and they will sound more laid back than they will in your room if you don't have any sound treatments.

The KLF Legend speakers are somewhat in between and if you can find a decent used pair of KLF-20 or KLF-30 would be a big improvement over the RF-3.  The cabinets on the Heritage series are a little sketchy and you may need to deal with loose panels on the back as well as consider some internal bracing if you plan to play them loud.  There are a lot of affordable upgrades available for crossovers and drivers from Bob Crites and others.  

I love Klipsch speakers and have owned RF-7, KLF-30, CF-3, CF-2, Heresy, RF-3, RF-5, and more, but if you think the RF-3 is too edgy, you might want to look at different brands.  Vienna Acoustics, Canton, and Harbeth (which are in a completely different league) all come to mind.

Have a listen to the Klipsch Forte III's if possible.

I should restate.  I think most of the edginess comes from recording variations and loud listening levels.  The Schiit has brought good imaging and improved the sound immensely.  I think the other brands would be good except my amp puts out 20W@8ohms.  The bi-amp sends 100Hz and below to the sub so that does lighten the load on the main speakers.  The room has the suspended ceiling with drywall all around.  I have never looked at room treatments but am not opposed.  Thank you both for the great advise.  It sounds like you have a hard to find experience with many different models.

Klipsch are great for low wattage systems.  Go check out the Heresy and see what you think.

Edgy and dynamics are not the same thing and any experienced listener should be able to differentiate.

I think you need to determine what you like and dislike about your Klipsch speakers and then determine what you think is intrinsic to the design, a house sound if you will, and then decide if that is what you want in your new speaker system. 

I suggest you check out some room treatment websites. You can easily see that you are trying to "control" the room reflected sound waves. Once you understand when to damp(absorb) or reflect (re-direct), you'll be able to craft your own solution. Good luck on your quest.

If you wanted it to sound even better the Schitt Vacuum tube preamp would add body,detail and dimension. 

Listen to listen to the Klipsch Forte iii I think you will be pleasantly surprised at what you hear. 

That's 2 votes for the Forte's.  I will be able to hear the CW4. Forte 3, RF7 and Heresy 4.  If I wait a few weeks.  If I want B stock i saw RF7 for $2600.  Thanks again

@daledeee1, damp the horns, using Dynamat, or a similar type material, as well as the woofer frames and cabinet panels, and things will smooth out and tighten up. @big_greg. Except for the removable back panels of the original Heresy and Cornwall, my 50 + years of Klipsch experience tells a different story of back panels becoming loose. In fact, it is the exact opposite of yours. During my mods, I have come across some pairs of KLF 20s, and KLF 30s, with some loose panel joints, that required corner rebuilds and additional bracing. Never a pair of Cornwall 2s, or Heresy 2s, as you have experienced. Of course, the internal cabinet walls, could always benefit from additional bracing and damping. The Heritage are a step above the RF3s. I always recommend room treatment. Just my thoughts. Enjoy ! MrD.

BTW, the Heresy IVs will be incredible, imo.........but, if you have the room, and budget, the CW IV will be the finest, of all that were mentioned.

MrD, I meant to say Legend series, not Heritage. My bad.

I did say the Heritage line has better constructed cabinets.

The panels on my KLF-30s were loose and rattled at high volumes. I used some Titebond III to seal them up. I recently put some Dynamat on the tweeter and mid horns in my Heresy I speakers and that improved sound quality. 

All good !

Go for heresy series , the only thing they need was a pairs of subs and you be good ! 

Here's another vote for the Forte III's

" BTW, the Heresy IVs will be incredible, imo.........but, if you have the room, and budget, the CW IV will be the finest, of all that were mentioned. "  Best by far unless you move up to (guessing at this) KHorns which we did not hear or Jubilees which we did hear..
I had a chance to listen to the Cornwall IV and the new Forte and Heresy this past weekend at the Klipsch factory sound room and the Heresy is now rear ported and much better sounding. The Forte shows improvement also but the real shocker was the Cornwall IV. I have never been a fan of Cornwalls but this new one is a giant leap forward and the boomy big box sound the old ones had to me is gone. Great presence and very musical. You can save a bunch of money if you are patient and get a set of Chorus speakers which are also great and my favorite Heritage speaker until i heard the new Cornwall. The Chorus will need to be recapped and an upgrade to a MAHL tweeter also makes a big difference.

If you can’t or don’t want to work on used speakers the Cornwall is MUCH better than the Forte and Heresy now.
There was also a set of new Jubilees there and while they are much bigger and not pretty they were in another league way above the other three. The Jubes and Cornwalls for most people won’t require subs and probably the same is true for the Forte. As you can tell by my comments though the Forte impressed me the least of the four sets we heard. I am kind of leaning towards the new Heresy + sub and if you go that route perhaps good used would work. I don’t know your budget.
We also heard the recent production Heresy and Forte and Cornwalls and all the new ones have improved though the Forte improved the least.
Finally for my taste if you have the room bigger is better and the Klipsch cinema speakers for 200 seat venues and up are spectacular and you have a chance to hear those do so. Those big speakers sound better at volumes so low you can barely hear them to ear splitting.

Forte 3’s all the way. Great speakers. 

Dale,

Did you know there is a Klipsch forum where good deals are posted?
Those guys don't know other brands exist. You can tag along on the
annual pilgrimage to Arkansas to pay your respects. Those folks eat, live, breathe and expel Klipsch products and tweaks.

On to your question: No room treatments you say? Buy nothing
until you address that. DIY for $300 can do the job pretty well.

Once the room sounds as good as it likely can then see how the current speakers sound. Still edgy? If so you may want to lose the horns and find a high efficiency replacement. Anything rated at 94 or higher will work. Your budget seems unclear but look for some lightly used 15" dual concentric Tannoys if you want lose the harshness. 15" Tannoys have been in production for 60 years so you should find a decent pair.

Loved LaScalas with a 2A3,300B or SE EL84 amp. That was in a large ish living room.

Depending on your budget and room size, I would definitely listen to the Heresy, Forte, and Cornwall. The Heresy is a good start. However, after listening to the Forte III, and also comparing to other brands such as the Tannoy Legacy Cheviot, I found the Forte to be a remarquable loudspeaker and an excellent compromise regarding sound quality and cabinet size. I think it is a very good choice for mid size to large room. The Cornwall is certainly another one to try but it is huge, I did not have a chance to hear it.

The RP600M are cracking standmounts for the money. Superb value. Really great for parties too, even better if paired with a decent sub. John Darko just did a review on the Forte III. He bought a pair and loves ‘em. Not the last word in refinement but dynamic and ‘alive’ for R&B, Rock, Techno etc. I know what he means. But for $500-$600, the RP600M rocks.

Ok, great post. I've owned Heresy III's and the Forte III's and loved them both, personal situation forced me to sell both. If and when I go back to Klipsch it will be from the Heritage series for sure, they are a different breed than the rest of the Klipsch lines. I feel the Heritage series are about music reproduction more so than home theater use. I felt the Forte III's may have been the best speaker I ever owned and that covers a lot of territory. That being said, I now have Tekton M-Lores that I bought from an audiophile friend. They are fine speakers however I am not as wowed as many of the reviewers are. I was expecting the "reach out and grab you" sound I read about and I do not get that. Balanced and pleasant, yes. To my ears they do not have the "liveness" I got from the Forte III's or Heresy III's. I thought the Heresy III's were just great and I did not feel the need for a sub either. What bass they do posses is tight and tuneful. I'd like to move up the Tekton line sometime to maybe the Lore Reference and see what the improvements result in. You are talking dome tweeters vs. horns which will always result in a stark contrast to me. Enjoy the journey. 

Thanks again.  I do have the subs and nice crossover so it sounds like Heresy would work.  I haven't got past the "shortness" yet.  Is the sound staging still realistic?  I did some reading about room treatments  and am still figuring it out.  The room is 12X20.  Ceiling is 7 ft but have the fiber, suspended ceiling, rectangles.  It is in the basement and have carpet over concrete floor.  Some walls were made out of 1/4" plywood for some reason and vibrates like a drum head at high volumes!!

If you're referring to the height of the Heresy cabinet when you use the word "shortness", they are designed to be on the floor.  They are on risers that are tilted up, so yes, they can create a great soundstage.  I tried mine out in my main system recently after damping the horns and they created a more immersive sound stage than my Harbeth Super HL5 Plus.  They aren't in the same league as the Harbeths in many other important ways, but don't fall short by a huge margin either.

I have owned many a Klipsch speakers the K horns are on my short list.
the inherent flaw of not just a Klipsch but 80% of speakers out there is they use 
what I would call substandard Xover parts ,which is the heart of all Loudspeakers 
on average many use Solen rated a 6 out of a possible 15  Duelund casthas been the standard Rated 15  bit very costly$$ and Huge.
there are cerebral much less expensive alternatives though ,Path audio the best Resistors Available  for Loudspeakers. Getting back to Klipsch Quality Vacuum tubes somewhere in audio chain is a big plus , also klipsch Cheap connectors low grade brass. Put a Good connector on there that is Copper based.  This will take away any brightness or non musical sounds and at least a  minimum of 10-15% increase in musicality across the board. I have been modding speakers for 20 years now . I had $15k ML stats
and they had Solen caps and cheaper evo Mundorf caps . In fact their $80k
flagship had similar parts.i wrote to them No response , maggi also cement junk
cement resistors and non name caps . The owner of Harbeth hung up on me 
using those maroon jelly caps from Taiwan , when in fact you are in the UK 
Clarity capacitors were right down the road for a lousy $1-200  sacrifice tons of potential fidelity. It is just uncalled for in my book ,electronics same thing.
on average less then 25% of the cost actually goes into the product this is the average,the rest markup and overhead. Having owned a Audiostore ,
and being into Audio over 40 years . Iniw inspect everythung  I buy and upgrade it to a much higher standard ,with electronics for more technical things I have 
Top technician friends . If you plan on keeping it for a long while then consid
fixing the weak link.  It can still sound very respectable with the mods but I am just saying there is a Lot of potential there just waiting to be discovered 
after 20 years and working with the best I have learned how to save $1000s 
just by buying a high quality used product and modding it .
thst is how Dan Modwright made his reputation ,hire great designers and put in top grade parts in the most essential areas. Best of Luck.

My deceased audio expert always put better parts in all my electronics and built me a crossover so I know first hand what good parts are.  It does baffle me why a manufacturer will save pennies on parts.  electrolytics vs film for example.  thanks

Save some $$ and try a pair of Klipsch Quartets like a smaller Forte

Another vote for the Forte IIIs!

I bought a pair of Forte 3's in June and I love them paired with my P.S. Audio Stellar S300 amp. I like the sound so much I am trading up to the Cornwall 4 for an even fuller sound. My dealer is giving me full trade in credit.

Another possibility is the CF-4, but it has to be Version 1 or possibly Version 2, and they are of course hard to find. What ultimately stopped me was not the rarity but the difficulty of replacing something on the speaker if a part went bad.

I ultimately bought the KLF-30, if you read up people have also modified them with newer/upgraded parts, so if you get originals there is still a path to go on if something went bad.

I would have gone with the Jamo Concert 11 speakers, but the guy was out in Utah and I was in Florida, another guy had Concert 11s with the center, another good deal and I had worked out the shipping, told him I was going to buy them as soon as I arranged shipping, and then he goes and sells the center, which is a relatively small percentage of the entire deal I was working on, so the deal was no longer good. I was literally about 90 minutes from getting them, I had gotten delayed getting home. I think the Concert 11s are much better than the smaller Concert 9s, but of course they’re hard to find and hard to ship. The Jamo speakers also are 4Ω instead of 8Ω, and ultimately I didn't know how that would work with a limited power tube amp.  

I too had also looked into the Tekton speakers, theoretically they sound very interesting, but ultimately it seemed too big of a gamble, as some say they’re the ultimate and others say lesser of the speakers and the person making them. So I never truly found out about them.

The only reason I ended up with the KLF-30 set was because I found a good guy on uship who was local here in Florida who was coming back from the west coast.

" Did you know there is a Klipsch forum where good deals are posted?
Those guys don't know other brands exist. You can tag along on the
annual pilgrimage to Arkansas to pay your respects. Those folks eat, live, breathe and expel Klipsch products and tweaks. "
 Sure is and the garage sale section and the alerts section have goodies at times. Local searches on Craigslist and Letgo and Facebook Market place also have items for sale often
  We do know other brands exist and many of us have gone through a ton of them and we keep coming back to Klipsch. After a while we don't bother trying to fool with other gear because it has been disappointing too many times. You are also not going to find $45,000 speaker cable nonsense there either which is nice. Lots of hands on serious audiophiles there who can take you deeper into the science of good sound reproduction no talk about things like cable cookers and other equally silly junk unless it is ridicule. DIY forum can also help out on those legacy repair and parts problems.

  The community is one of the great things about Klipsch and you can get advice and parts to repair speakers 50 and 60 years old and some models are still in production after that much time. The only other company that comes close to supporting legacy speakers is Great Plains Audio which still produces parts for Altec speakers. The Altec JBL forum is the second biggest biggest speaker forum I know of.

There is something about that Klipsch sound. It just takes you there and captivates you to stay and listen! Own Klipsch Forte iii and RP-160m. LLK. 

I think you are making the right choice to stick with Klipsch and try their better offerings - especially since you are running a low-watt amp. The "Heritage" series is a different league and the reason the Klipsch name is still around - it is their audiophile class and the rest are more consumer/big box/retail class. But, there are really two Heritage classes: the actual "Heritage" series that is the recent reissue of some of their classic designs and then there is more of the dictionary definition--buying one of the original models on the used market (I’ll refer to these as "used").

I own a pair of used Chorus II (there isn’t a Heritage reissue). They are the Forte’s bigger brother and replaced the Cornwall before they brought the Cornwall back as Heritage. Basically looks the same as a Forte, but taller/wider and has a 15" woofer on the front and a 15" radiator on the back and a larger midrange horn. Since The Chorus is essentially a Cornwall in a different box, the Forte's were chosen for the Heritage series reissues because the smaller size filled a different niche. I love my Chorus IIs though. Because they are 30 years old, I recently replaced the crossover with a Crites (capacitors start to go bad after 20+ years), along with an upgraded Crites tweeter (critesspeakers.com has upgrades and replacements for ALL used Klipsch worth keeping.) The rest of the speaker will last forever - they were built that way back then before home audio & video became a replaceable/consumable. The crossover replacement and tweeter upgrade were both very easy DIY jobs that took about an hour and can be done by anyone who knows how to use a screwdriver.

I also just listened to the new Cornwall IV at the Rocky Mtn. Audio Show last month and thought they were great. If money were no concern, I’d consider the Cornwall IV. But, honestly, I didn’t notice a major difference from my Chorus II and I’m not getting rid of them until I have a place large enough for some K-horns - and I’ll probably get a used pair when I do since my experience with my Chorus II has been so good. Between the speakers and the upgrades, I paid $1500. A new pair of Cornwall IV are $6000; Forte III are $4000/pair. If that price difference doesn’t matter to you - go new. If it does, you aren’t missing much - if anything - by buying a used pair of older Klipsch.

I had only solid state amps when I first bought them and eventually was tempted by all the recommendations for pairing Klipsch with a tube amp, so I bought a tube amp. I was wary of going tube and I really didn’t want to buy in to the "old" technology. But, it sounded amazing! I couldn’t believe it because I thought I liked my speakers before, but the tube really shows off the Klipsch horn drivers. No matter what amp you use, you’ll learn quick that source quality is important because you hear everything and bad recordings start to sound worse than before. No low-res mp3s or streaming with these and even bad studio work is noticeable. Overall, I think you’ll be very happy by upgrading your Klipsch.

I ordered a set of Cornscala style "B" this week.  I am buying these without listening!!  I am not too worried about it.  This is only the 4th set of speakers I have ever owned and I think these may be the last. 
Also,  I appreciate the thoughtful and informative info I was given by all who took the time to help me.  It gave me a good first impression of the forum. 

As far as the rest of my system goes, I feel I have it really dialed in.  Even with my 20 yr old RF3 the imaging, dynamics and sound are well above average.  I can't wait to go to the next level.

Klipschorns if you have the $$ and the room.

Forte III for everyone else..........

what is a good inexpensive tube amp to pair with the Klipsch Heritage series?

Tubes:  I see some talk about Dared. I think that is about 1200.  Actually there are quite a few on Amazon but it's up to you if that's where you want to buy it.  I also looked at the Carver which starts at 75W and is $2750.  Carver has a 5 year warranty on the tubes.  You won't see many reviews of Carver because he made the magazines mad sometime ago.  I just upgraded from a professional amp that my friend had modded to a Schiit Aegir and I can't get over the difference.  It was $800 and is solid state Class A at 20W.  it plays plenty loud with Klipsch!!  Has great detail, mid bass and soundstaging.  I have never owned tubes.

If you have the space, forget Klipsch and try the Spatial Audio M5 Sapphire. Even their predecessors, the M4 Turbos, were far more refined than any Klipsch speaker I've heard. If you want Klipsch dynamics without sacrificing refinement, that's the route to go. This is coming from a Heresy III owner.

RF-83, only Reference Klipsch Ive seen with 3 8" woofers , that are beasts, 250-1000 W are the power requirements , so power is a must!!!

I have not heard the Cornwall IV, but I owned the Cornwall III.  I prefer Forte III due to its having LESS cabinet resonance.  I even preferred the Heresy III over the Cornwall III because of this reason. (The Heresy would NEED a subwoofer).   That being said, I even sold the Forte III and now use slightly modified Forte II speakers.  I also have a pair of slightly modified Forte I speakers that I rotate in sometimes.  (the mod is Ti tweeters and Crites crossovers on both my Fortes). 

I wonder if the cabinet resonance problem has been addressed on the new Cornwall IV? 

disclaimer statement:  to follow is a purely subjective and opinionated conversation (just like everyone else).
However suffice to say there ain’t a lot of love for the RF-3 around here...primarily because despite its “reference”  implication inferred by it’s model name/number...there really isn’t much reference quality about it.  As others have suggested it really was a watered down consumer grade big box store AV type speaker.  As such it was NOT part of the Heritage series which everyone holds in high regard.
And I’m no Klipsch-basher by any means...  I love their Heritage series stuff like all the other guys here.  Which means your Heresy, Chorus, Belle, Forte, Cornwall, Klipschorn......etc.....
And of course,  like what’s also been said said here today, is that proper implementation ie...listening environment and speaker-supporting audio chain should also be executed properly.
I’ll always have and never get rid of a Klipsch Heritage series something,  (be it Forte or Chorus) in my inventory.  But In the interim two years ago I discovered and acquired Tekton Impact monitors, which while a different animal ... they are quite sensitive (like Klipsch) and thereby a joy to listen with my low power class A Pass amplifier.

The RF series are good for home theater and occasional two channel listening.  The RF7s and RF83 will play loud and will rock, but there are much better speakers out there for not much more.  If you want speakers that will play loud and be more laid back and sound better than the RF-3, try to get your hands on some used Legacy Audio speakers.  You can sometimes find Focus 20/20 speakers for around $2000-$2500.  I have not heard the Legacy Audio Classics, but those can be had for less.

I use a Dennis Had 12wpc or so (depending on output tubes) amp with Heresy IIIs and they sound amazingly good with 2 REL subs (I had the subs before the Heresy IIIs). The Had amps are sole new only on Ebay and are in various styles, from $1200 or so to maybe 2 grand for a hand wired masterpiece. Note that the relative smallness (or shortness anyway) is a key feature of Heresy IIIs and one that I like...they’re far less physically obtrusive than Fortes and Cornwalls, and sound at least similar (from the mids up anyway). I heard the new Cornwalls recently and they’re a great sounding speaker but man...some largeness ya got there...also worth noting is the price...my Heresy III "Capitol Records Edition" (!) were $1500 new including shipping a couple of years ago (a great deal I know...still...) but Fortes are 4 grand a pair and Cornwalls are around 6...that’s a large difference, and likely worth it, but in a different league really.

If you like DIY projects, try a pair of Forte I's with Bob Crites crossovers, (or consider ALK crossovers), Crites titanium tweeter diaphragms, and an earlier (1970s in my case) Heresy midrange compression driver/diaphragm which were of higher construction/sound quality.  All were individual improvements to add depth and clarity while removing some of the "edgy" sound you may be referring to.  Total investment for the speakers in excellent oak cabinets was right at $1000 a few years ago, besting anything I've heard in that price range.  Pre amp and power amp (35 watts) are tubes, which have always provided a warmer sound than solid state for these high efficiency speakers.  At least have a tube pre amp in the chain.

(BTW, I also dampened the horns and did A/B comparison with mono source and heard no appreciable difference - just be sure the horns have there gaskets and are screwed tight to the baffle.)

This provided very good near field listening up to moderately loud listening in an open floor plan listening area with typical curtains, upholstered furniture, etc.  As others have said, the Forte's larger cabinet will provide a noticeably deeper bass than the Heresy and the passive radiator system they use is very good for tight bass, even compared to other speakers their size.  Tweeter and midrange compression drivers and horns are the same for Heresy and Forte with some crossover differences due to woofer crossed over higher in Heresy.

Then moved these modified Fortes to a 13' x 21' dedicated listening room with pine walls, drywall ceiling and some rugs on the floor.  Much more shrill and "edgy," with a smeared bass and loss of instrument placement, especially as the volume was turned up, compared to the first room mentioned.  Room treatments (absorption) including bass traps in all corners, first and second reflection points on wall and ceiling treatment above listening area now has them sounding better than ever with rich tones, open sound stage and all that.  The reflection point panels made the most difference taming the "edgy" sound.  And they sound great with everything from classical, jazz, blues, to well recorded rock (well recorded/engineered etc. being key here).

So room treatments can make a very big difference for any speaker depending on what type of room setting you have, so can be the best starting point.  Good luck finding what you're looking for.

Edit: To make one of my statements more specific and accurate regarding tweeters and midrange compression drivers and horns in the Heresy and Forte being the same, that is specifically for the Heresy I - III and the Forte I models.  Forte II use a different midrange horn and passive radiator, which some prefering the I vs. the II sonically.  The Forte III, as I understand it are slightly modified II's.  

I am not understanding, those that have dampened the mid and tweeter horns, and have not heard improvements, let alone, differences. Early on, the metallic horns were nasty, as they " rang ", and the later poly plastic horns, also have some resonance issues. I have performed hundreds and hundreds of damping mods, for myself, and others, and never had a situation, where a difference, of improvement, was not noticeable, and not appreciated. Not just Klipsch, btw.....cabinets, as well......Long live Klipsch.....

(BTW, I also dampened the horns and did A/B comparison with mono source and heard no appreciable difference - just be sure the horns have there gaskets and are screwed tight to the baffle.)

Same here. Spent a whole day damping the horns of my Heresys with bitumous pads. Fired them up and they were as colored as ever. I've intended to remove the material as I actually find myself enjoying them less after that mod. 

For anyone that can afford the space necessary for Spatial's open-baffles, there is absolutely no good reason in buying a Klipsch speaker, especially at their current price points. I only keep my H-IIIs around because they can still sound good when placed close to walls and are stealthy in terms of the room decor. But if I listen to them following a session with my Spendors or Maggies, their coloration/resonance is almost too much to bear.

" there is absolutely no good reason in buying a Klipsch speaker "....from the guy who thought, and probably still does ( and not so long ago ), that original Advents were the best there was, regardless of cost....I take what Helo says, with a single grain of salt.....however, he is, as all are, entitled to opinions. Enjoy ! MrD.