Yes. I don’t know why but I myself is leaning toward to USAM as well. Maybe free listing?
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I just sold 2 items on USAM, one of them 10 minutes after listing it, and the other in about one month. I don't see it as any less effective that Audiogon, and it's free. I've been here since '98, and the difference is that it used to be mostly private parties, and you could speak to them on the phone. Now there are so many dealers trying to sell big ticket items to rich guys, and they can afford the expensive ads. |
AG has evolved away from what was originally a bulletin board listing service with a cooperative theme to the fee structure to a business model that, while more reasonable than EBay, more closely resembles the latter model. USAM’s structure allows the hobbyist side of the market a place to have fun. The rise of successful USAM higher dollar listings has corresponded inversely to rising AG fees. Elasticity of demand. |
+1 @ghasley Why would anyone list here for exorbitant fees when they can sell the same item on USAM for free 🤑 |
I met and now have several photography friends since joining dpreview. Here they try to prevent us from sharing contact information with each other, I presume so we won’t sell ’outside’ of their fee. I don’t mind the fee to sell, I pre-pay even though an item is more likely to sell elsewhere. It's not much to contribute for what I learn in the discussions and help I get from members here. But I do resent having to sneak my info to members. 3 members have come here and we enjoyed listening to music together, share our equipment histories ... I’ll be visiting their homes soon. Like minded friends is a tremendous gain from any forum. |
I have also noticed a slow down in sales. This is especially true of the higher priced goods. Or maybe I'm not looking at the "flavor of the month" gear
To be fair I believe A'gon offers more and maybe better service. Then too, I haven't sold anything for quite a while. Then too, business are willing to pay a fee. They have an understanding of the business world and know that there is a price to do business. Its called overhead. The typical person who has never run a business doesn't know about all the hidden costs involved and naturally think a fee is wrong.
This is one of the more egregious things about A'gon IMO. Its nice to be able to actually talk shop with some. Also, it used to be suggested that you speak with the seller before final purchase. But even in the forum section where there are no sales, you cannot even post your email address of phone #. Sometimes a conversation is more appropriate for the situation. But then too, its hard to get anyone under 50 to even answer a phone |
“Then too, I haven’t sold anything for quite a while.” Well in that case you have no idea how quickly these fees adds up. I have sold 62 items in last 18 months on USAM. I am sure you can do the math 😊 Selling audio gear is a loosing proposition, very seldom you break even and in almost all cases you do not recoup your selling fees. BTW, I am a independent contractor so I have a bit of idea of costs associated with running a business. I am not against the fees and in my 15 plus years of selling on Audiogon, I gladly paid and enjoyed selling here. Sadly, I cannot afford to pay the newly revised exorbitant fees…..I’m a hobbyist, not in a business to make profit on used gear. As @ghasley pointed out, this site is now more geared towards dealers, nothing wrong with that but I wish they would have kept two separate fee tiers for hobbyist and dealers. |
I agree. But commercial is where the $$$ is at. And this is what Agon is now going after. I'll agree that it would have been nice to have the 2 tier system. But that will make them less $$$ because they have to do the same work for less pay. The days of customer care and service are long gone. Not just here but everywhere. Most every business is set up for their own convenience, not the customers. What's with this modern BS of subscriptions that never end where the customer is billed after the subscription has run out? This is just one example of BS taking place in the business world. So, yes, I'm glad for the free service of USAM also. The last few things I have sold were there. But Agon still offers more service. The question is whether that service is beneficial to the hobbyist. Like you, I don't think so. But then too, the hobbyist doesn't have to match Soc Sec, pay workman's comp & Liability, Unemployment, Health Insurance or provide records for audits should the govt or insurance decide to audit. I was in business most of my life and understand both sides of the picture |
My biggest issue with audiogon was the complex payment structures over time. And then the difficulty with communication with buyers. They would limit email distribution to keep the conversation internal.
I think this is the beginning of the demise unfortunately.
I have not listed the past 3 or 4 on audiogon, I have done USAM. |
It brought Audiogon, USAM and a lot of other venues. Use the one you like that fits your purpose. The free market has a way of correcting itself. If & when Agon does not offer value for their service, they will go out of business, making an opening for something or someone else. Its not the free market at fault. It is the corruption of the free market. Lets also remember that the free market also brought about the largest economy and envy of the world in less than 150 yrs. But no system, no matter how efficient can survive the corruption of those who pervert the principles for their own gain. As someone said, A man with a briefcase can steal a lot more than a man with a gun. And he is usually using the perversion of a law to do so |
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AG has one of the best ideas around, complete merchandise support from FREE and (some even pay) forum members. AG still doesn't understand the forum members were also the one BUYING the merchandise and looking for support from the members that suggested the merchandise to buy to begin with. They been shooting themselves in the foot because of blocking the posters that MADE AG. I said that 3 years ago... AG is BROKE, staff and model wise.. They need and ignore button for the posters and not for the "ONE" moderator. The moderator doesn't pay the bills, the posters DO. |
it is pretty clear that a-gon has evolved its business model towards dealers and less price sensitive (read: selling fee sensitive) individuals who want to sell sell gear... it is not a bad way to segment the market of sellers... but buyers are still wanted and most welcome here, of all types (mostly individuals of course) i still buy plenty of items here, ones from sellers listing items here, dealers and individuals (and some small manufacturers who list things here too) ... so while i don’t list much for sale here anymore, a-gon still makes money when i spend money buying stuff here... in any case, it is still smart for a-gon to maintain the forum and have eyeballs/participants... |
I have been on Audiogon for nearly 23 years and it sure has changed. It seems to me that every time I am selling an item that the Moderators don't like my conversation and " Flag '' me for my conversations that I have with the buyer in which I am trying to complete my sale internally with the buyer. The fees imposed by Audiogon are just outrageous anymore ! You have to think about what price you want to try and sell your item for as you have to take into account all of the fees involved. I have seen a decline here in items and I do see more being listed on USAM. It is what it is as Audigon has just got to expensive for a simple audio guy who just wants to buy and sell his gear and have a good conversation wit the buyer and seller along the way. Sad to have been a witness to this demise over the past few years here as I did meet a lot of nice people along the way and learned a lot about this hobby. Stay well and safe..... |
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I echo those who say it's not a good thing that Audiogon doesn't encourage contact with members. I've met a great friend on here. Also, I like having personal contact with buyers/sellers on transactions. In 1998, I made my first purchase here. I was so nervous about an $800 transaction. I spoke with the seller on the phone multiple times and it eased concerns. I have a couple items that I want to sell. I'm going to try US Audio Mart this time. |
elliottbnewcombjr,I have noticed the same problem in regards to obtaining contact information from members so we can invite each other over to listen to our systems. If they are afraid members will by pass Audiogon to sell their items. I also think it would be helpful to identify members who are dealers. We could then understand their bias. Wonder what the solution would be. Perhaps, the solution would be to not allow dealers on Audiogon. I sold an item on Audiogon and it was easy to work with. There is a way to obtain phone numbers for members so we can talk to each other on the phone. One other way would be to have Zoom Meetings once per month so we can verbally talk to each other. |
All these sites have a purpose. I used AG , USAM, and e-bay. For the most part they all have saved me well. The only bad experience was that the buyer received the product and told me that it wasn't working. After trouble shooting several times over the phone it turned out that he just didn't like the unit. I received the unit and bought it to the manufacturer . As suspected they gave it a clean bill of health. However he lied to PayPal and I was canceled . PayPal not only paid him direct but held on to all my money in the account for 6 months. With all these sites the more communication between the buyers and sellers you have a better chance of a mutual outcome. I have become Web friends with buyers and sellers. |
During the past year and a half people have been buying up the used market.For those buying new a lot of product has been difficult to get. Now we add inflation and the average buyer is not crazy about the new price hike. I myself am hunting down a pair of speakers. All of a sudden these used classics are 40% higher than what they were two years ago. Since they are vintage they will need some work. I am no longer interested. I will be staying with my Focal, B&W, and Dynaudio. Three sets of speakers not going on the market. All these sites have a purpose. I used AG , USAM, and e-bay. For the most part they all have saved me well. The only bad experience was that the buyer received the product and told me that it wasn't working. After trouble shooting several times over the phone it turned out that he just didn't like the unit. I received the unit and bought it to the manufacturer . As suspected they gave it a clean bill of health. However he lied to PayPal and I was canceled . PayPal not only paid him direct but held on to all my money in the account for 6 months. With all these sites the more communication between the buyers and sellers you have a better chance of a mutual outcome. I have become Web friends with buyers and sellers.
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I use Canuck Audio Mart, sorry... The Border (Customs/Duty) and International shipping are two big issues that are difficult to overcome when purchasing large, heavy pieces of equipment. Having said that, I do occasionally purchase small items direct (from the manufacturer/distibutor) when they use their expertise to expedite shipping and paperwork. (Shout out to AntiCables and SORAsound). |
My biggest complaint is the filters put in place to prevent communication between buyers and sellers. I like to talk to sellers about a piece of gear I am interested in. I also think most buyers are like me. I understand that Audiogon doesn’t want unauthorized sales but if you pay the sale fee upfront they should allow unlimited communication between buyer buyers and sellers. They already have their money even if a sale doesn’t go through. |
I agree with lwin above that AG is exceptionally anal about controlling the dialog between buyers and sellers. And I feel their selling fees are excessive and laden with low-ballers. But I think they still are the standard for audio product sales and forums. USAM has no seller fees and doesn't try to control communications but I have found many more problematic buyers who communicate interest and then disappear forever, even after promising payment and there seems to be no recourse for these parasites. I have reported them and nothing ever happens and USAM won't let the seller give feedback unless there has been some type of exchange. So I guess there is room for both audio product sales websites but both have their issues. |
I'm sure it has to do with the free versus paid listings and it often seems Audiogon equipment prices are higher as well as many categories being dominated by a couple of businesses who post half the listings in Audio Research, Wilson and other categories as well as the dealer out in Colorado. More private seller equip possible on USAM? |
Audiogon’s business model seems to have changed where they are no longer favoring the hobbyist, with a great number of listings now coming from dealers with e-stores linked, such as TMR and similar, although TMR appears to be the most prolific. Nothing wrong with that, just an observation. USAM seems to have gained more momentum now and has become a serious and perhaps more appealing option for the hobbyist since they don’t charge fees for their basic ads, at least not yet. I use both sites with equal satisfaction. I also agree with the copied post below - My biggest complaint (with Audiogon) is the filters put in place to prevent communication between buyers and sellers. I like to talk to sellers about a piece of gear I am interested in. I also think most buyers are like me. I understand that Audiogon doesn’t want unauthorized sales but if you pay the sale fee upfront they should allow unlimited communication between buyer buyers and sellers. They already have their money even if a sale doesn’t go through.
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I tracked this site in the 90’s, then became a member 2001 or 2002. It was for hobbyists. Audiophile brands I’ve never heard of back then entered my vocabulary (Bolder, Krell, Classe, Levinson). I was also impressed with the standards back then. The grading system was a lot more accurate and you would only see (true) 8-9/10 products being exchanged on this site. You would never. see a Sony, Pioneer, or big box brand. It was for audio snobs.....a good thing because that kept our friends at E&@y from posting scratch and dent or repaired items. The fee was fair also. I left (but returned in 2016) when they upped the fee and taxed a percentage on your hard-earned equipment. I was just as mad as the day they canceled Monday Night Football on ABC. Not everyone could afford ESPN on cable. But to my point, the standards have changed here, I’ve seen everything pass through this platform. Now I see hackers posting Rotel MICHI and Levinson amps for $750.00 Ugh! |
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I have had nothing but good results with AudioGon. I generally have thought that one reaches a higher quality of buyer here, but these days, I am not so sure, since I have bought a couple of big ticket items on USAM, and they seem to be overtaking (or have overtaken) Audiogon as the place to sell equipment. I think that Audiogon has to wake up and smell the coffee . . . competition is competition and they are clearly losing sales to USAM . . . why pay anything when you can list for free and reach the same audience? |
U S Audio mart has certainly progressed in the last few years and the buyers as well as the sellers have all upped their game, with that said I still use Audiogon to buy and sell when needed as what they offer is unique and on a larger scale, plus the forums are great to read and reference when needed. I do pay the $50.00 membership to USAM to give back for the free ads, which I have used quite a bit lately. Enjoy the music |
