Is there a DAC ranking list?

From the description of your room/system, you have bigger fish to fry than a DAC.

Just sayin......
 

OK, ozzy62, I’d like you to expand on that if you would.  I’ve started room treatment by adding 7 utility mats on the floor.  As I mentioned, I’m very happy with the sound of my Moondrop Blessing earphones.  My guess is that the weak links are the AirPort Express and/or streaming on the iPad Pro.  What would you address to take a step forward?

From the description of your room/system, you have bigger fish to fry than a DAC.

Just sayin......

I was in the group that most DACs sounded the same until I bought a bunch of DACs and listened at home. The real differentiator of the sound was evident in my RAAL SR1a headphones. I never heard anything as revealing as the SR1a and with a bright DAC you get fatigue. With a to warm DAC you can immediately notice the loss of detail.

The very best DAC on the SR1a was the Musetec. No fatigue, no brightness, and tons of detail. On my 2-channel speakers, Thiel CS3.7 it is more forgiving with all of the DACs I listed, but still is the best sound with the 005.

I should clarify that all of the prior amps I have used with the SR1a have been solid state.  Maybe 10 amps, 2 channel and dedicated headphone. A tube peramp or amp would alter my perception. As now with me using my brighter DAC3B with the new RAAL VM-1a tube headphone amp.

YouTube is your friend! Listen to some of the best and make your decision based on what sounds best to you.  I have the Schitt Yggdrasil, which is superb... but... I'll prolly end up with the Holo Audio or Denafrips.  

Though... there are only very subtle differences between the most expensive and the reasonable priced DACs - it's hard to tell the difference - as acknowledged by the reviewers.  So... it doesn't make a lot of sense to struggle with a decision.

"Don't get lost in the details" - it can be overwhelming.  Listen to 2 or 3 of what are widely acknowledged to be the best DACs available:

There cannot be a ranking list for all DACs because DACs are like other gear in that you can categorize them by their design and the likely sound signature based on that design.

You need to figure out what sonic signature you like. If you like warmth, then maybe a tube DAC would be on your top tier while another person may find that type of sound at the bottom tier.

Or one can argue that the DAC or TT should be neutral, and amplifiers and speaker should be neutral.

And then people spice to flavour with a tube preamp or a DSP?

But @yyzsantabarbara I agree that a Tube DAC on an existing SS setup might be a winning proposition.

The other obvious (?) difference is in features, EQ, user interface, streaming options… etc.
It almost doesn’t matter if it is the best, and is only $50, if it is painful to use.

There cannot be a ranking list for all DACs because DACs are like other gear in that you can categorize them by their design and the likely sound signature based on that design.

You need to figure out what sonic signature you like. If you like warmth, then maybe a tube DAC would be on your top tier while another person may find that type of sound at the bottom tier.

That Absolute Sound review of the Topping D90SE is a good example. It is a super neutral DAC based on an ESS chip. Some people like the detail and clarity from such a DAC while other dislike the sterile sound (no warmth). In the review, the reviewer says something to that effect. If you want neutrality, he thought it was a great DAC.

I have had a few DACs in the last 2 years.

• Gustard X26 Pro ($1500)
• Audio Mirror Tubadour III SE ($2800)
• Benchmark DAC3B ($1700)
• Topping D90SE ($899)
• Musetec 005 ($3000)
• Matrix Audio Mini-I 3 Pro ($1100)

I sold all the DACs except the Benchmark DAC3B and the Musetec 005. I plan on using the DAC3B on a new tube headphone amp so I will need another DAC to replace it. The plan is to get a second Musetec 005.

The DAC3B is neutral and a bit bright. While the 005 has a touch of warmth.

In my OP I explained that I now stream radio stations on my iPad Pro to an Apple AirPort Express connected to my speakers.  I raised the question whether I need a DAC with a streamer.  Any thoughts?  I ask because I’m not sure what’s the weakest link in my system.

If it sounds good to you, then I am not sure that picking at the scab is going to help.

But sometimes people just want to change and upgrade, so there is also that.

Basically there is no right answer here. 

In my OP I explained that I now stream radio stations on my iPad Pro to an Apple AirPort Express connected to my speakers.  I raised the question whether I need a DAC with a streamer.  Any thoughts?  I ask because I’m not sure what’s the weakest link in my system.

@cd318 I would still like to see some measurements showing impulse response.
The band limiting filters, around 20 kHz, that are used in DACS can give low SINAD for steady state tones, but can cause pre ringing or post ringing.

The multi tine signal graphs may cover that, but I would have to think about it.
And I have an old “pre millennium” CD player, and no state of the art digital.

@holmz

Now that’s what I call a timely intervention!

Thanks for the link.

It’s an excellent interactive resource for anyone in the market for a dedicated DAC, though there’s plenty of other stuff there too.

There’s a few at $6/7k which don’t get a recommendation and then there’s some around $40 that do!

Right at the top of their ranking seems to be the Topping D90SE at $899.

Steven Stone just gave the <$1K Topping a rave.

Remember that DACs depreciate faster than new cars and that over $1500 you rapidly hit the law of diminishing returns

Anyone care to hazard a guess as to the total number of DACs (makes and models) available for purchase right now?  I'm sure it's well into three figures.

@jjss49

can someone rank the best burgers in the usa?

That’s easy In & Out

chaos and a 12-hour wait!!!

:)

I would make the analogy of DACs more akin to automotive as opposed to burgers. You want a Volkswagen, Lexus, or Porsche. They all perform the same function… many are superior in every way… but there is an element of taste. 

op

Hamburgers? That’s an easy one. Without a doubt…the best burger is at the Anchor Bar and Grill in Superior, WI…$4 burgers, $6.25 if you want a 2/3lb one…fresh fries for $1.25. So you might say I’m looking for the DAC that matches their deal.

schiit bifrost mb or chord mojo -- with your view on burgers i suspect these dacs will work just fine for you...

more grist for your mill on the low end - equivalent of the 'best' 4 dollar burger... ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Cv29Klqlsw

@tcotruvo
“ … I’ve read several times a 2121 Audiogon thread “DAC That Punches Above Its Price Point”. …”

When you get more experienced, you will recognize this metaphor in bold popping up all-too-frequently. It is lame hyperbole pushing marketing puffery and BS.

Hint: When you see it quoted, do the eye-roll first, and then just walk away….full stop. Everything in this hobby is always built to it’s price-point, with a performance capability in lockstep.

If we ignore pre-ringing and impulse response…

 

+1 @akg_ca 

I can’t see any worthy ranking below about a $3,000 price point. That’s the approximate starting threshold level and going north,....

    
@tcotruvo 

There was a 2018 DAC shootout on WBF, but the DACs were from $2k to $100k+.  Current best DAC seems to be the WADAX at $150k.  Generally speaking, to hear a significant sonic uptick over the typical box store offerings these high-end DACs start at ~$3k.  Consider buying used to save $, often 30-50%.

If you're shopping at the ~$1k level, IIRC a couple of years agos Gustard reviews seemed to suggest great price/performance, possibly a bargain at their price point.  Also Denafrips garners many positive reviews.  

How could you possibly compile such a ranking list? I think that there are more DAC's on the market than almost any other component. Just check out the DAC classifieds on USAM.

I’ve read several times a 2121 Audiogon thread “DAC That Punches Above Its Price Point”.  It has been helpful, but I asked about a “DAC ranking list” because I had such a good result using the one Chronicle created for earphones.  I appreciate your answers, and will study them.  I apologize for asking ‘beginner’ questions, but I live in a city where there is only a Best Buy, and my friends have 1970’s stereo systems.  I listed my equipment and listening habits, because there are likely a FEW “best value DAC’s” out there for me…finding one is the trick.  It has to be both good sounding and a good value.  Hamburgers?  That’s an easy one.  Without a doubt…the best burger is at the Anchor Bar and Grill in Superior, WI…$4 burgers, $6.25 if you want a 2/3lb one…fresh fries for $1.25.  So you might say I’m looking for the DAC that matches their deal.

can someone rank the best burgers in the usa? best smoked brisket? best french bordeaux? best sports cars? best seafood restaurants? best paintings in the louvre?

speaker rankings? record player rankings?

please please please... will make life so much easier... ordinals are just so clear, unambiguous.... just wanna know the rankings... 😉

sorry, couldn’t resist...

John Darko used to have a 'Dac-Ranking' list.

I think it's now password protected, but may still be worth investigating.

Ranking lists are pretty useless as it comes down to what sound characteristics you like, not someone else’s list according to their own preferences that could well be different from yours.  

That said, given what your looking for take a look at the Musician Pegasus.  I have one and it’s really good at portraying tone and density but still has excellent detail up top.  Several reviewers use it as a reference if that means anything, and at $1100 I think it offers very good value for the sound quality it offers.  Here’s a review that coincides with my own impressions of the Pegasus’ sound characteristics.  Best of luck. 

https://soundnews.net/sources/dacs/musician-audio-pegasus-r2r-dac-review/

We as audiophiles often seek ’giant killer’ components. Though the phrase is loosely used, rarely, if ever do we find such elusive equipment.

I can’t see any worthy ranking below about a $3,000 price point. That’s the approximate starting threshold level and going north, where unit build and significant performance significant differentiation starts in my experiences.

Simply put, quality build matters, and you get what you pay for,

That’s the suggested starting price point where you actually start seeing significant design and quality build differentiation they translates into a meaningful audio performance step-up in lockstep; with features and measured performance that is very near the theoretical limit of the digital audio streams it can decode.

Besides it’s superb measured performance, it’s a total joy to use and listen to. It is operationally easy to understand and simply sounds better as a key contender and leaves the lower budget units as clear and unambiguous large pretenders comparatively.

For example,

• Separate power supplies for analog and digital circuitry
• Fully discrete Class-A balanced analog outputs
• User selectable upsampling for some inputs

Of the DACs I am familiar with (best sounding first):

1) Audio Research CD9se ($17K)

2) Berkeley Reference Alpha ($22K)

3) Linn Klimax (~20K?)… I can’t find the price… conflated with the DSM

4) Schiit Yggdrasil ~ $2,500

5) Schiit Gungnir~ $1,500