I ran across this Atlantic magazine article on another music forum. It asks the question if old music is killing new music. I didn't realize that older music represents 70% of the music market according to this article. I know I use Qobuz and Tidal to find new music and new artists for my collection, but I don't know how common that actually is for most people. I think that a lot of people that listen to services like Spotify and Apple Music probably don't keep track of what the algorithms are queuing up in their playlists. Perhaps it's all becoming elevator music.
I just have to laugh at that thread title, yes I remember the album bins too, and the 8 tracks, cassettes and reel to reels, but thats equipment.
First remembered listening to older jazz and 16 2/3 records, and 78's and of course 45's as well. especially Buck Owens doing Truck Driven Man on an old RCA with tubes.
One thing I also remember in High School was a class called Music Appreciation, lots of different kinds of music and something that today I guess is a bit of a dinosaur like me.
Albums are different, you listened to one song after another by the same artist, one song might actually blend right into another.
Now we have streaming, pick and choose anything you want. But there's something missing, its called patience. Taking long enough to appreciate what an artist has to say musically. But its not about them, its about us. What we want to hear , not what they want us to hear.
Isn't it easier to skip around streaming all sorts of different music, than to actually sitting down and listening to an entire album ?
In that Music Appreciation class, the teacher thought that classical music would get listened to less and less, and it came true, I really don't think its really appreciated as much as it used to be.
But most classical pieces tend to be longer and you need that patience again to really listen to them.
Maybe all it really takes is time, something that most of us today, just don't have enough of.
I dont believe the statement that buy age 30 your set in your musical choice.Im 70and a boomer ,I'm not a rich bitch.My music tates change all the time.So do my buying habits.For years in my car all I would listen to was music from Sirius Radio,no commercials,just mysic.Now I like FM music stations with the commercials because it like the radio stations I remember as a kid and teenager, the old time Djs....I like everything and I have an open mind.But no Rappa Crappa ,Crap...talking about killing people ,beating women and fighting....Funny there Parents and Grandparents like Jazz,Rhythm and Blues and Soul..when did the Crazy stuff start....I guess just when Disco was dieding.....
@hilde45 Why don't you just delete your first posting. It is lacking in context and appears to be an equity play for young people versus boomers. Equal opportunity is available to young people. They spearhead technological innovations today, not boomers (and sometimes get rich doing so). Unfortunately, our public education system is dumbing down young people. They are dumber and tend to be less capable of taking care of themselves. Also, how often do they read a book or newspaper? I'm sure you are all in for equity, not equal opportunity and probably think books (those old things written by dead people mostly) are passe. WRONG!
@mike_in_nc I was into 50's rock and roll, pop music from the 20's to 50's, classical and opera as a child. At about 30, I became interested in jazz from the 20's to the 60's, then in my 60's in hard bop and fusion. My wife brought me into 60's to 80's rock after we met when I was 41. I am open minded and find new horizons in music. (I have 28,500 LPs, 7,000 78s and 7,000 CDs with all these types of music). I dislike rap, hip hop and the genre that spawned them. They are antithetical to my moral beliefs.
@beasmooth1Yes, patience is required to listen to music. The most important factor in music is rhythm, the timing of music (even one note repeated in time can be considered music). Streaming and earpod listening to music on phones does not convey the full character and experience of concentrating on music using more elaborate sonic setting (although there are some excellent quality earpods/phones but listening while exercising is not paying attention in my opinion and doesn't convey the full listening experience). As Type A personality that I borderline on, I take time out each day to listen/envelop myself into listening to music.
Perhaps a many bad things in our world can be blamed on the greed & short sightedness of my (boomer) generation. But we can also proudly take the credit for by far the best rock music ever! It’s not even close.
it’s survival of the fittest! How many new rock bands have come out in the past 25 years that will still be remembered & listened to often in 25 more years? Very few because most have little talent & creativity. The Dead, the Stones, cream, Allmans & course the Beatles etc. live on because of the quality of their music & their innate artistic talents. Everything eventually seeks its own level & the auto tuned junk will & has wound up near the bottom.
Yes, I've sold 18,000 records in the past 35 years. I have a rule for myself, if I don't potentially want to listen to a recording 3 times a year, out it goes (except for ethnic music which I have 3,500 records/78s/cds). I have about 5,000 LPs to listen to still and decide to keep or toss. I stopped purchasing 78s (except ethnic music) 20 years ago. So many of the vocal, violin and piano recordings have been wonderfully remastered by Ward Marston, Obert-Thorn and Andreas Meyer to CD.
I dont believe the statement that buy age 30 your set in your musical choice
I do. I'll go so far as to say by age 22 or so. I think you and I are outliers. I don't know of or have heard of anyone middle age or older in my local sphere, at work, at the gym, or really anywhere except the Web who listens to new artists.
There was a thread here recently called "Share albums where EVERY SINGLE song is good". I commented that almost every album mentioned was 45-50 years old. Nostalgia is a powerful thing.
Occasionally you'll see audiophiles scoot into some other genre on a temporary adventure, but it doesn't suddenly displace their favorites. You rarely see experimentation with non-audiophiles.
You also see "getting stuck" as I call it, in the guitar community. You'll see guitarists consistently stuck playing songs from a 5-7 year period that aligns with their late teens and early twenties.
This isn't just about music. Look at technology. How many people over 40 outside the computer profession (and even inside) understand things like cryptocurrency or the internal workings of blockchain? Blockchain is the future. Eventually all immutable documents will be stored on a blockchain. All your contracts, your deed, your loan agreements, etc. will be on a blockchain. Yet no one over 30 outside work knows what the heck I'm talking about. At most they think blockchain is Bitcoin.
One of my theories for "getting stuck" in the music of your youth is personality type. Without getting too deep into clinical terms or study citations, it's well known that some personality types are more curious than others. For instance, Sigmas have a very strong curiosity trait. Elon Musk is probably the most famous Sigma. No surprise there. Sigmas will do stuff like start new technology companies, dream up high-speed tunnels, commercial space travel and even have the cojones (or naivete, or both) to think he could start a successful car company where all others had failed. But Sigmas only make up 6% of the population.
Is breaking out of "getting stuck" in the music of your youth only limited to Sigmas? Could Sigmas be the outlier in this regard? Or might it have something to do with people who work in professions that require constant change develop an immunity to fear of change? Or something else? I don't know. But I do know that I've tested as a Sigma and I'm one of those people who never got stuck.
Coming back to Op's title, with benefit of hindsight I am not surprised that old music is more prevalent than new music simply because there is far less original material in new music (its all been done before). Early indicators of this trend is when some time ago a few 'Rap' artists would use old hits to put in their own lyrics (or is it speech?), obviously no new originality. There was 'Grunge Rock' which really was a poor man's version of Rock, I have more regard to Punk which tried to be more 'to the point' music without the frills, but the Punk artists fell in the trend of the time of trying to be offensive, bad boys and totally radical (sadly just an act). There is a lot of modern 'good' music about, not original but certainly musical gems. However music companies trying to nurture and invest in young talent have long gone. Now focus is on more 'what will make it go viral' on internet. Think of a tune which will 'hook' the listener on first time because otherwise listener will be instantly bored and has the instant access to other tunes. Also there is a growing trend of artists just doing their own websites selling their own music without any band involvement eg Justin Johnson. He is very talented guitarists but eventually the listener will get bored just listening him on his own doing eg remake of Stairways To heaven. On rare situations when he does play in the band; musically it gets far more interesting!
Music of the 70's dominates today cause it is standing the passage of time. Too soon to see if it will conquer Bach and Beethoven, though not likely. Garcia made the comment that the Dead was just a dance band. Is it all about the rhythm?
Is it all about the rhythm? Interesting question from above it certainly ignited certain feelings in the listener and most likely increased procreation...!
I dont believe the statement that buy age 30 your set in your musical choice
I do. I’ll go so far as to say by age 22 or so. I think you and I are outliers. I don’t know of or have heard of anyone middle age or older in my local sphere, at work, at the gym, or really anywhere except the Web who listens to new artists.
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By 22 I was already into the Beatles, Elvis, Dylan and was happy checking out the LPs featured in Paul Gambaccini’s book Critics Choice Top 200 albums (first ed 1978) as well as The NME Rock Encyclopedia (1978) as well as listening to the regular Top 40 charts.
All the bands I enjoyed listening to that came later eg Joy Division, The Pogues, The Smiths, U2, R.E.M. etc were basically a continuation of what had gone before.
I have never made any effort to check out any different music unless there was something catchy in the music. For example I only got into classical after hearing an old tape of Murray Perahia playing Mozart’s PC 21.
I did get into jazz for a while but it seemed a little claustrophobic after a while.
As far as patience goes, I never had much back then, Sinatra seemed so so slow. Somehow he seemed to have improved by the time I got into my 30s.
In one sense, all of the music I listen to can be put under the same umbrella of being called popular.
There is an untold amount of music that I will never get to listen to, nor do I want to.
It’s that hook, buzz, kick, heartmelt that I look for in music, and most of the current stuff I hear on the car radio just doesn’t do it for me. These kids of today just seem too knowing, just too professional in their career aspirations.
@jssmith I doubt I’m a Sigma with my low creativity and average I.Q. However, I’m self-taught on computer since the mid-80s DOS, have a JD as well as having taken science courses at UCLA along with my history and political science BAs. Became a top commercial real estate appraiser for 28 years after 5 year stint as a residential property manager (hands on repairs too)/contractor for tract homes and apartments. Funny thing is that I’m mostly self-taught since school and prefer independent pursuits rather than group activities (other than choir for 51 years). I'm probably an anomaly compared to most people who are stuck in a rut both in life and work.
I can’t do anything artistic but appreciate and know art history. I can’t compose and play piano slowly yet I am quite knowledgeable on music history (especially opera and ethnic musicology). I don’t know how to create computer programs but am able to learn how to use them with minimal instruction. My learning ability accelerates with age, possibly due to earlier knowledge compounding with new subject matter.
As to bitcoin, I don’t like it. As to blockchain, yes, I can see myself using it just as I learned to switch from a slide rule to a calculator to a computer.
I will always want to listen to music on records and CDs. Streaming just doesn’t have much of the music I want or will probably never have (ethnic, out of print on esoteric music on formats of LP, 78, RR and CD). Note that streaming music is rarely accompanied with extensive recording, composer and artist notes whereas my Marston, Romophone, Biddulph, etc. CDs have sizable booklets of notes.
I was only playing around. My comment is likely do to that of which I hear coming from the garage, my son and his other band members. C’mon guys, y’all have a gig around the corner… pace and timing please lol.
I don't know of or have heard of anyone middle age or older in my local sphere, at work, at the gym, or really anywhere except the Web who listens to new artists.
Very interesting. I had not thought of this before you made this comment. I find myself agreeing with your observation with the people I know in my age group. No one I know (except my wife) actually listens to anything outside of what they listened to in high school. Even when I suggest new music to my friends/coworkers they look at me like I am crazy and keep listening to the same 12 albums.
I constantly search for new artists/music and my wife will add them to her playlists much to the surprise of her students. I have always been told I have eclectic taste and maybe that is why I am now listening to groups like Morcheeba, Darkside, Monophonics, Ikebe Shakedown, and others.
I wonder if this also affects how we select the equipment in our systems? Something else to consider.
An interesting response to ponder. First, I'm sure you have an above average IQ. As for being a *Sigma, I can't tell from a short post. On the surface, you seem to have some traits, and a streak of curiosity to a certain level, but not to the obsessiveness of a Sigma. Sigmas don't tend to dabble in things. They become immersive. For instance, I've literally read 250+ books on economics, finance and trading. Sounds nuts, but that's a Sigma for you. And that has been just one of my many immersive hobbies. Sigmas would never say "I don't know what I'd do if I retired." Not having anything to do just doesn't register as being a realistic possibility in a world filled with a seemingly unlimited number of things to do.
I can't speak for streaming in your favorite genres, however I thought it would lack with some of my obscure preferences, but it doesn't. So I sold all my LPs and all but a handful of my CDs. I haven't listened to physical media going on two years.
On YouTube, Rick Beato (a former record producer) does some interesting analysis of new music quite often. To say his audience is less enthusiastic than he is is an understatement. But even he has to admit often that new music lacks creativity. His latest Grammy nominees video is a case in point.
*Sigmas can also be determined by the Myers-Briggs INTJ test result, which I took in my early twenties.
I wonder if this also affects how we select the equipment in our systems? Something else to consider.
Hmmm ... don't know, but somehow I doubt it. I think you'd have to start with whether this trait makes you objective or subjective. That has a great deal to do with your system criteria and priorities.
I'm 70 and I've always tried to keep up with contemporary rock, reggae, and pop music. I don't like jazz, blues, or country, but I like all kinds of indie rock and pop, and hip-hop/rap, metal, etc. I also like Grateful Dead music!
There are so many thousands of new releases each year that nobody could ever listen to more than a fraction of it, so it's amusing to see so much of it written off as 'not as good as music from the 60's' or whenever. Sounds like people of my parents' generation going on about all rock music sounding the same - noise! - and why can't you listen to Bing Crosby and Perry Como - that's REAL music! 🤣🤣 Guess some things don't change.
@jssmith I like to watch Rick Beato videos. I've learned much about modern music from him and about guitars.
I suppose I am not a Sigma. However, I never want to retire. I run a full business (which is now mostly from home, real estate rentals and equity investments) instead of my former driving 30,000 miles annually all over California for commercial real estate appraisal. High school IQ tests had me at 97 (Stanford/Binet) and 98 (Berkeley). The school informed my father than I should be in pass/fail courses. I had already achieved nearly straight A's in accelerated courses so all that remained were AP courses. It was either college instead of 12th grade or AP. They permitted me to take AP courses instead of losing student funding. By 18, I was a junior at UCLA in dual majors. I took an on-line IQ test which tested me at 129. Maybe I got better at test taking 50 years later,
@larsmanYes, I agree that there is much new music which I have not heard. I also agree that so much great music was recorded in the past 100+ years just like so much great film/video was recorded. I have 550 DVDs/Blu-Rays and an avid watcher of TCM movies. Comedy, musicals and film noir are my favorites (my wife forgoes the musicals). Video is much easier to retrieve great picture quality compared to music. 4K high end LCD screens were not wallet breakers. However, I have a higher end audio system which is 15X+ more expensive than TV screens to achieve similar results.
Why don’t you just delete your first posting. It is lacking in context and appears to be an equity play for young people versus boomers. Equal opportunity is available to young people.
Yeah, I won’t be deleting anything. The pressure on younger people is intense, and the article offers quite a lot of evidence on how corporate practices are squeezing them in their pursuit of sustainable careers in music. I understand the generation-based defensiveness in the responses, and though I am likely of the same age as the posters here -- I’m in my 50s -- I will not be jumping on the bandwagon that says, "Everything is the same as it was" or "Young people complain too much." I have taught young people for 30 years and have seen their lives become manifestly more difficult, due to no fault of their own. I understand what is happening in terms of political and economic power sharing, and the disadvantages they face in the music industry is just the tip of the iceberg. I won’t be discussing this further with ostriches who prefer to keep their head in the sand. And anyone who tells me I can "get off my butt" should know that I found Archie Bunker to be a sad, pathetic but funny character on TV. In real life, such ignoramus behavior is just something I find pathetic and I won't engage with it beyond suggesting where that comment could be shoved.
Young people inherited an hell pass on by impotent consumers who are now old...
We are responsible for the world around us especially after 40 years old, not teens....
Some people awake in Canada just now, and some alien power just push war measures on us....Then some mature people can awake and change this incoming hell in something else....
The most important analysis of Totalitarian global state about the way they are put in place was by Hannah Arendt and the mechanism described by her was : The incremental banality of day by day new small measures which appear tomorrow the new normal.....like a frog unconscious of the slowly boiling waters in the pan, freedom is eroded in all aspects of life: money, democracy, health, working conditions etc...
It is all around the world now this "new normality"....The "banality of evil"...
Mature people can change the world for the young who will go on now with them as leaders ....Not the reverse....In canada the war measures were deployed against working adults not against teen hippies....
This apply to education and music industry....
Music tastes are like any other tastes acquired tastes by education or lack of, by environment pressure, and by control of the media by corporate powers...
Thinking that our taste as adults are free is childish.... We all are the sum of the events in which we go through in our own personal history...
Only crocodiles think their taste is rightful and eternal...
I found Archie Bunker to be a sad, pathetic but funny character on TV. In real life, such ignoramus behavior is just something I find pathetic
@hilde45, This may come as a shock to you but Archie Bunker was a caricature, someone to be laughed at. The WWII generation did more to spread peace, freedom and prosperity to more other people than any other generation or country in the history of the world.
Today’s generation, and I include you in that category, only whines that they’re not being spoonfed to their liking, and we are just beginning to see the results of that attitude in music and life in general. Keep whining and see what keeps happening
I think that Alexander the Great did a better job to give peace to the world and education than US after world war 2...Think about the last 70 years of Us politic... 😁😊 Who was the victor after 1990 and what this victor made of his victory? Insane wars with insane politic...
For the generation problem i think that hilde is right...
We the booming generation are the one who created this world today not the young .... And the only whining people are old people saying that they were better than the younger one today not seeing the mess we created ouselves by being passive consumers at the expanse of the world itself...
Who created this world around us? Each one of us in the rich countries participate the older we are the more we are responsible...
Today’s generation, and I include you in that category, only whines that they’re not being spoonfed to their liking, and we are just beginning to see the results of that attitude in music and life in general. Keep whining and see what keeps happening
And accusing some generation of a problem which comes more from an inherited systematic totalitarian order globally imposed are childish observations anyway....
A clue: read about Rockfeller foundations education politic and medical politic HUGE impact to understand something, and quit blaming the young....
I don't think that "new music" is being killed by old music. It is being killed by its lack of music. If old music is involved at all, it was not a difficult task to dump what is being passed on to us as "new music."
I'm 66 and loved the 50s doo wop, opera, rock and roll and classical music when I was a child. PRAT must have had a lot to do with my desire to hear music as the quality of the sound was mediocre from my tube record players. It wasn't until I was 13 that I finally bought a Sony TC366 RR that I started hearing good sound (and 15 when I had a beginner's early stereo). When music has a melody and PRAT that one can sing and dance to, how can one not be moved? With my high end audio systems, I can appreciate radically different music as well from rock pre-1995, fusion jazz and 20th century obscure classical music. I cannot sing or dance to Rap, Hip Hop and most pop of today. It doesn't move me.
If we’re going to blame anyone, then let’s blame our unseen publicity shy puppet masters who feverishly operate behind a curtain of anonymity.
We’ve had almost 70 years of continuous peace since WW2 and all the while our world has been shaped into larger and larger market place. The quest for ever new markets, ever new oil fields, resources, farmlands and economic slaves masquerading as human beings has led to great global tensions and uncertainties.
What for?
Just so that a few indescribably wealthy people, no not the billionaires ones you often read about, but the rather publicity averse trillionaires that you don’t, can get even more obscenely wealthy?
Well, la di da!
What are the young to do?
What choice do they have?
Force fed through tightly regulated education systems that increasingly resemble merciless indoctrination centres, what else are they supposed to do.
Most of us spend the first 40 odd years of our lives running around the same hamster wheels forever chasing our tails totally unaware of the high stake money games being played out somewhere in a land far outside the eye of the both the media and all economic textbooks.
It’s hardly a surprise is it, that many young people only later in life realise that they most of what they were so carefully taught was a load of old deflective nonsense?
The young listeners don’t have the habit of listening to the old music. Technological advancement has made it easier for the listeners to stream the music they want to listen. The listeners have the option of listening to the playlist they like, rather than listening to the tracks of one album. The music industry is adopting the new technology and so the listeners are getting the music faster and for lesser price. So the competition is becoming tough in the music industry. It has been suggested that the record labels should be given the chance to make their choice of new music and then promote it, rather than playing the music randomly. So it is killing the new music, but there are other reasons too for it.
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I just want to share a link to a video of Leon Bridges as an example of outstanding “new” music. The talent is out there. I do realize the video is from 2016, but I think it meets the new music definition. Enjoy!
Great video. Leon has been around for a few years now and I am waiting for the breakthrough. That is, many people have simply not heard of him. He reminds me of a modern day Sam Cooke. I saw him about 5 years ago at the Beacon Theater in NY. When he puts the guitar down, he is a very dynamic performer. Check out his latest EP with Khraungbin --Texas Moon.
Sadly so! The advent of social media and digital music production tech made it so anyone can flood their music to the public.There's no quality gate as there was in the past (A&Rs, producers, etc.). But maybe we'll see a renaissance of music soon?!
Today’s generation, and I include you in that category, only whines that they’re not being spoonfed to their liking
Feel free to speak for yourself. You don't know me, know what I do, so please don't speak for me. Let's talk about audio, ok? There's enough to debate there, and plenty of wild generalizing yet to try out.
Music forever changed with the advent of recording. It went from being largely participatory to a passive listening experience. Once producers learned they could can it and sell it, record companies became the arbiters of taste (having cut their teeth selling sheet music prior to the widespread availability of records and radio).
I enjoy listening to recorded music. I really have no "taste", other than I like what I like. One piece of recorded music is no better than another, just different. I listen to it all, and sometimes I make an emotional or intellectual connection, and sometimes I turn it off mid-stream. I happen to like old country blues performances sung through a horn and captured on wax. The sound "quality" is limited, but the power of the music is incredible. On the other hand, much of modern pop music, though technically superb, leaves me cold.
Today, musicians can make technically perfect music in their bedrooms using a laptop that comes with free software. Or they can grab an inexpensive ukulele and sing a few songs at a cook-out. Neither is likely to make the performer any money, but I'll leave you readers (or at least those of you who have followed me so far) figure out which I like best.
The technology of today may make it easier for artists to record their music and get it out to the public but that doesn't make them a great song writer. Great song writers are one in a million.
That one in a million was the case in 1970 and again today.
@tgilbno disagreement from me on that. Not everyone that releases music is actually good.
@dabelGary Clark Jr is a phenomenal guitar player. Listening to his version of “Come Together” sounds like Jimi Hendrix playing the Beatles. Its awesome.
@lloydc- yes, it sure is, because RHYTHM is part of music, too. Unless you wish to discount a great deal of jazz and contemporary classical as well to be 'not music' because you can't hum it or whistle it. I really enjoyed that half-time show! 😁
Gary performed at the Harrah’s Resort & Casino, Valley Center Ca. back in 2019 and was literally a stone’s throw away from where I live. Turned out to be more then a Trifecta. Someone who’s been on my list of top musicians whom I’ve waited patiently, small venue, new album tour "This Land" released earlier in the year, traveled blue highways to / from event, and last but not least ... huge fan. Besides, I thought it would compliment your throwing down of Leon Bridges ;-)
Gotta love Howard and the no censorship. Perfect example is Gary’s performance of This Land when they were promoting the Bands new album.
The 4 Track "The Bright Lights EP" is well recorded, highly recommended and Things Are Changin’, When My Train Pulls are Live/Solo acoustic. Side note: the album of first choice when my SR Purple’s arrived.
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