Yeah, a post from a non-native English speaker is usually easy for me to spot. Not that this is a bad thing, though. I enjoy & appreciate the sometimes off-beat syntax and left field word choices a non-native speaker will put on the page. It adds style & pizzazz. It adds flavor. And of course, the various regional accents of English (American, Brit, Aussie, etc.) are often apparent, as well.
It is easy to discern a non-native English speaker but as the folks above mentioned I quite like it when someone spices things up a bit. English is a constantly growing language and you never know what will eventually be accepted as normal. It goes deeper than just the choice of words, sometimes I marvel at the different way of thinking. Oftentimes the similarities wow me as well.
My job has taken me all over the world but every meeting and conference I have ever attended has been held primarily in English. I have so much admiration for those that are operating in a technical field in a non-native language. I can’t really imagine how difficult it must be. I see posting and discussing all things audio here on this forum in the same vain. My hat is off to all those conversing in a second language.
In terms of detecting that someone is using English as their non-native language, it would also depend on the level of mastery of the “foreign writer” and the educational level of the reader.
If anyone likes to read, check out Through the Language Glass by Guy Deutscher. He explains how language actually shapes thoughts. An example may be that French contains 7500 different ways to express color. This is an exaggerated number but it proves they can perceive more about something’s beauty because they have a lot more references. Also German has a lot more direct and absolute terms. While it may seem “harder” it’s beneficial in engineering. It’s a good read if your into the subject. I thought it was fascinating. His daughter is Alma Deutscher, the violin and piano prodigy.
Well, in my experience, English is not quite the - common- language shared by many other than American English speakers.
There is the different spelling of numerous words in American English, secondly, in my learning, American English seems to have a preference for a different (more simple?) sentence structure. This also goes for the 'preferred' absents of punctuation marks, other than full stops (i.e. periods :) !
This is not negative by any means, and can often contribute to a faster apprehension of what has been said. This also by the shorter sentences.
However! It also lends itself to saying things that can be equivocal, and in my experience perhaps on purpose - when e.g. reading marketing 'spiel' like IT manuals.
I'd happened to translate numerous into German and often had a tough time to decide which way to say it. German is generally a lot less ambiguous.
Badly misspelled English text (forget 'your' instead 'you're' :) , add some truely - of the wall- grammar, is easy to detect - often quite hard to comprehend as to WHAT on earth exactly was meant.
Well, in my experience, English is not quite the - common- language shared by many other than American English speakers.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.
Same here, actually Spanish is more common. My German, Russian speaking skills are pretty limited, but most East EU and West EU folks speak Spanish, French and English. Spanish will bridge the gap, where English won’t sometimes. My Asian, and Island speaking skills are about the same as my German, but French and Spanish will get you a good meal a place to sleep, and hopefully, a good time.
Funny my grandmother, still spoke a dialect of Irish Gaelic. English wasn’t her first learned language, but she preferred to speak and write in english.
I enjoy reading posts, in any forum, from people of other cultures or nationalities. I can often spot syntax and grammer oddities, but it makes for even more interesting reading.
I used to teach English as a second language. English is far more easily spoken than written.
What gets to me are obvious grammer errors and written illiteracy of native English speakers. I see very little of this on Audiogon, but when reading political posts it becomes obvious that "Coastal Elites" do tend to be more literate, regardless of political preference.
And what's the point of this post? is there a concern that if identified as a non-english speaker (as a 1st language) that you will somehow be treated differently in this forum? That would most certainly be a misplaced concern!
Hi chetan88, Respectfully; yes, it is normally very easy to tell when the poster's first language is not English. Your own post here contains two misspellings. As someone else here said, it's actually kind of charming, just as when someone you meet speaks with an accent and somewhat imperfect pronunciation or word choices. However...as motown-l said, it' is really surprising to see the gross errors in spelling and grammar that are made by posters here who are obviously American. These posters often have extensive knowledge of electronics and other subjects requiring good or better intelligence; yet they don't know the difference between there and their. They also write run-on sentences without regard to punctuation; or they use commas too often in the wrong places. We all make spelling errors and occasional grammatical or punctuation errors. I'm speaking about consistent misuse by presumably educated people who own systems that are worth quite a bit more than my home. In the past when I have pointed this out occasionally, I have been called the grammar police, etc; and so have others that pointed these things out. I still think that there is value in writing things as correctly as possible, because it makes it much easier to read.
Great to see people from all over the world participate here.
I recently joined a Asian audiophile Facebook group, mainly to read some feedback on a speaker I want to get. It turns out that people on this Facebook group has some amazing systems. Google translate is also my friend.
Once upon a time I wanted to be a Linguistics professor. I actually got an M.A. in the discipline before my life made a thoroughly enjoyable left turn. At any rate, my masters thesis focused on English Grammar. And lemme tell ya. When it comes to grammar, English is a veritable rats' nest.
Yes. But I really enjoy what one of the above posters refers to as offbeat syntax. A few years ago, I was on a music forum and a French lady reacted to a particular new record by saying "I'm on the ninth cloud." Turns out she was saying the equivalent of "Cloud 9." I enjoyed that expression so much that I drop it on people every once in a while. The blank stares are hilarious.
Yes its easy to identify a non-native speaker unless of course they speak and write perfect English. I know a woman from Belgium who speaks perfect English with no accent at all. But she's the only European I've ever known who did not have any accent.
My wife has a niece who was born in Deutschland. Came to America at age 10. Speaks perfect English no accent. Asked my wife who was also was born there how is her German. She said perfect no German accent. Cannot tell the difference from adult Germans. My wife came to America at age 17 and has a mild English accent. Thought is was interesting. I think at a certain age one can do both perfectly.
Well, in my experience, English is not quite the - common- language shared by many other than American English speakers.
English is the international language of air traffic control, so it is a "common" language for specific uses.
As for correct English usage, I've come to the conclusion that few people on the Internet care about spelling, grammar, or punctuation. However, there is a difference between American punctuation and English punctuation that shows up mostly in the use of quotation marks - if people even use them.
There are specific word choices that can give away the nationality of the writer, such as "whilst," a word an English citizen would use, as opposed to "while" which is generally what an American would use.
Then you find bad spelling such as "alot," which is not an English word, while "allot" does not mean "a lot." Then you get to the homophones like "brake," and "break" and people often get them confused.
Another category is the total misuse of a word. My current favorite being "fitment." Fitment is now frequently used by people to mean the precision of fit between two parts, when in fact, a "fitment" is a piece of furniture. The word has nothing to do with how precise the relationship is between two parts.
The last is the total desecration of English from text messages. "ill," no longer means feeling sick, but "'I'll," or "I will." "U" is the substitute for "you." This is somewhat understandable with a character-limited format like Twitter, but continuing to use the abbreviations in a character-unlimited response only demonstrates the ignorance or apathy of the person making the post.
But if you want a true demonstration of a non-native English speaker, it comes in the from of word relationships like, "...so Please i'll appreciate it if you can
withdraw the Ad from Craigslist so that I can be rest assured that I’m in the
hand of the item..."
Yes, "...in the hand of the item..." from a Craigslist scam email. No reason to feel the least bit suspicious, given the bizarre syntax and other English errors.
It's like in the original movie, The Taking of Pehlam, 123, when the villain, played by Robert Shaw (an English mercenary) yells "Hands in evidence", only to be greeted with blank stares and has to say, in disgust, "Show me your hands."
Yeah, spelling can be pretty appalling in chat room postings. The way I see it, though, it's damn near impossible to de-flack all the 'corrections' offered up by happy-go-lucky spell-check software. Then there's the miserable keyboard choices available on today's laptop & other portable devices.
Yes, it is pretty easy to tell when someone is foreign to the English language. It's also pretty easy to tell when a native speaker of English is also foreign to the language. None of it really matters though. If you apply the principle of charity to someone's expression, you do your best to try and grasp the intent of the message regardless of how formally correct it is. And as others have said, irregular English patterns by non-native speakers are actually quite charming.
Nuns speak Latin, I mean, they are a pretty cheap date, too. Little wine. couple "Our Fathers" a "Hail Mary" or two, good to go.
Problem, No BASEBALL!, yup no baseball, no first, second, third, and certainly NO HOME RUNS... Bring something to read, Bible will probably work.. Lot of kneeling, and hand holding. you kneel, and hold your OWN hands...
Fader, McStereo, signing off here in Navajo, YES NAVAJO, code breaker!!!
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