Interconnect Break In?

You need to be passing the signal, so yes, the preamp needs to be on.

ozzy

Wire does not "break in". If it did it would have been observed during the first widespread use of wire for communication - the telegraph era of the 1830's.

 What does change over time is the contact resistance of the connectors due to oxidation. A new pair of cables is installed. A change of sound is noted. The new connectors make a cleaner contact with the jacks. Nothing to do with the wire! So periodic cleaning of the contacts is beneficial.

IMHO most components don't break in. Your ears on the other hand do adjust to the new sound. Speakers possibly are the exception to this with mechanical parts moving air. Individual components in electronic audio gear have such tight tolerances they just don't change over short periods of time.

Ozzy - Thank you.

Jason - I agree that cleaning contacts periodically is helpful, so thank you too. I suspect that there are some early changes that happen based on what I hear and then eventual oxidation.

Willy- Yes, ears / brain definitely adjust to the new sound, particularly when a new component brings more detailer or richer sound. It’ll sometimes take me some hours to be able to process all of it. Yet I’ve also heard dramatic differences after 50 or 100 or more hours with power cords, interconnects, speaker cables, cartridges (where once the bass dropped out before returning after playing 20 hours or so later) and equipment sounds that I’ll say that’s part of it too. Thank you.

"Wire does not "break in". If it did it would have been observed during the first widespread use of wire for communication - the telegraph era of the 1830's"

Somehow, I doubt that the telegraph operators would have paid much attention to the amount of PRAT in their dots and dashes.

Just because a certain someone can't hear something, is no reason to assert that nobody else can either.

Your preamp doesn’t need to be on. But the CD player or streamer should be on and playing to pass the signal thru the cables. Usually between 100-200hrs for the cables to settle. Use a streamer instead of spinning discs 24/7 to avoid unnecessary wear on your transport. 

@audphile1 Pick a number out of a hat, eh!

I also think it's your ears and brain that are "breaking in " when you make a change

It’s never without you adjusting to new sound but it’s not the only component involved here. Allowing the cable to settle is also important  

Try making a change, listen for an hour then let it all play and come back the next day. Evaluate. Then leave it playing for a week before you listen again. If you’re capable of hearing the difference between the cables you will most likely hear the difference between the initial listen and when the cable had settled.

Even a used cable that’s been out of the system for some time needs a few hours of play time to settle. 
 

Rule is though, if you absolutely hate the sound with the new cable right out of the gate, no amount of break in will fix that. 

My experience is that it takes a minimum of three days for any cable change to settle in to the system and show it’s true character. Whether it is my brain or the cable I do not know, but it seems pretty consistent. 

Was looking at cabels the other day a major manufacture stated it takes 100 hours.maybe they got tired of returns and the cabel did change or the brain adapted.thats why some manufactures cryo thier cabels putting the atoms back in thier lattus structure so less change. Atoms do move around unless - 273 degree kelvin.then it stops and so do i.ebjoy the music and the hunt

I agree the preamp does not need to be on.

Audphile1 - The retailer said 150-200 hours so in the same range as you. Thanks.

Zlone - I've noticed that used cables take a few days to settle in as well. Amazing that it would be this sensitive but here we are. Thanks.

Mark 200 I saw that some are cryoing cables too to speed break in too. I'll wait for a cold winter day and put them outside for a few hours. LOL

Audphile1 and Jay - do you know why it would or wouldn't need to be on? I guess this is a technical question that's above my pay grade. Thanks!

Great discussion lots of fun it's what life is all about.there are alot of smart people on this forum I enjoy the mental stimulation.thanks

Me too. A lot of great ideas. I appreciate so many people taking the time to share their experiences and knowledge!

I don't know, but my power cords had to break-in to sound smoother, why not   interconnects. Logically the gear has to be on for any break-in to occur. You know, the electrons have to find their shortest signal path and components have to settle in. 

I’ve pursued high end audio for fifty years. I have spent hundreds of hours comparing high end audio interconnects, speaker wires and power cords. Breaking is substantial and not in your head. 150 to 200 hours is very typical. I find a couple components I can have on… both ends. I have an extra system that I can put in wires and break in… I always go for the highest power end… like if I have phono stage interconnects I’ll use between the preamp and amp to break in. 

Does the preamp need to be on?

As @ozzy said there needs to be signal passing from the source to a load. Load is the Preamp in this case. Naturally the preamp would need to have the input selected for the CDP.

Could the preamp be set to the input the CDP is connected to and then be powered off? Depends on the preamp. Some preamps use relays or some other type of source switching device other than a mechanical input switch. do you know what you have?

As for break-in, burn-in, settle-in, what ever you want to call it, it’s not just the wire that burns-in. The RCA plugs need to burn-in.  The dielectric, insulating material that cover the bare wire needs to burn-in, settle-in as well. The signal energy actually travels in the space between the wires through the dielectric.

@jasonbourne71 " What does change over time is the contact resistance of the connectors due to oxidation.” +1

Simple unplug-plug the same cable changes contact resistance dramatically! Always check your contacts under microscope of just magnifying glass, what you’ll see might shock you! Contact surface is another problem, often “gold plated” contacts are much worse than pure Cu, due to high resistive metal under it (Ti, Ni etc). I found recently couple of very good Rhodium plated receptacles and plugs, showing very low interconnect resistance, and no scratches after use! Remember as contact established by two parts, thus these parts should match in terms of plating metal, ideal metal pressure etc. 

Cables from resistance standpoint are getting worse with time. Dielectric (bad one) hardens and changes Er/TanD after few years of use, which significantly degrades phase velocity flatness across audible frequencies. The lower dielectric constant is, the better! Shorter audio cables have less audible sensitivity to phase velocity than longer ones. 

I’m glad I read this thread because it reminded me to check all my cable contacts. It’s been a while since I’ve done that. For whatever reason I’m not one who can hear differences between cables, except in extreme cases, like interconnects or speaker cables that are very long and too high in resistance. Another case was some cables with a little transformer built in to convert pro level output down to consumer level. Those things sounded horrible. They also measure poorly. Another thing that can sound really bad is using a y-splitter. Very obvious stuff. Comparing two interconnects of any cost that are both meeting basic criteria and suitable for the application has proven mission impossible for me. I also can't tell if it's been broken in or not. 

I've heard that if you eat a bag of M&M's, then wait 150-200 hours and come back and eat another bag of M&M's they will taste different than you remember them tasting 150-200 hours ago.

GHD, that’s great advice. Thankyou. I should’ve just put these on a spare NAD receiver I have and let it run. I was too impatient and put it right into my system. I may move it but that involves moving a cabinet.

JEA- Its a CJ tube preamp. Any idea of whether that is still ’on’ in standby?

Logistics - I have had the same problem. Especially when I switch from plain to peanut M&M’s 200 hours later. 

@ddrave44 the preamp does not need to be on for the cables between cdp and pre to break in because the signal is flowing from your cd player or streamer and passes thru the output interconnects whether your preamp is powered on or not. This is the easiest set of cables to break in. 
 

@ghdprentice a note on your approach.
The preamp to amp signal, unless you’re cranking it up, is much lower voltage than source to pre which is typically 2v rca and around 4v xlr. Running preamp at low volume to break in the ICs between pre and amp will take slightly longer than the set between source (i.e. DAC) and pre where you’re driving a line level signal to the output. 

Why not "break in" while listening?

audphile1,

I disagree. If the Preamp is not on, the signal is not moving from CD/streamer through the cable into the Preamp.

You might as well just disconnect the cable and let the air break it in. LOL!

ozzy

Wire DOES break in. Anyone who’s owned upper-tier Nordost, with its shriekingly strident treble before it (finally) breaks in, knows this to be true. It took what it always takes with Nordost: 300+ hours. And this was Frey 2, and Tyr 2, which I bought on the last day of October years ago, and it took until November 25, the day my conductor friend came to visit, for it to not be unbearable, although, by the 20th day, I could listen the a Supremes anthology CD, which - BELIEVE ME - was SO bright the first 3 weeks, I couldn’t listen to it, no matter what volume level I used.

I’ve owned many of the top cables (Nordost, Shunyata, Synergistic, MIT, Transparent, Goertz) and they ALL needed at least 100 hours. Oh, they’d play music, but if I wanted to hear a coloratura run clearly, I’d have to wait at least 100 hours (Nordost and Shunyata take the longest, although not Shunyata’s newer lines) to hear each descending note. And this was not just one CD, this was hundreds, as, at the time, I was awaiting surgery, so I was home for the entire month after I got the Nordost, listening to it constantly.

The idea that we all just need to let our ears break in and that the cable is just "sitting there" is absurd.

Anyone who listens to classical or opera music and has good discs (along with good ears) could hear that particular break in. Actually, when your ears start to bleed, you won’t need any other confirmation, and Nordost - more than any other brand - will sear your ears in its early weeks.

I have never been a fan of people commenting on something they’ve never heard and just commenting on the "theory" of it all, as if that explains the good (or the bad) of anything. Empirical evidence seems to no longer be the order of the day in audio, quite contrary to what it was like 30 years ago, when people actually listened to a component before commenting on it. This thread if full of people giving their opinion and passing it off as fact, when doing the experiment of listening would prove how wrong they are.

Explain please @ozzy 

if the cd player is playing it outputs signal thru the interconnects. If you don’t hear it because the preamp is off it doesn’t mean the signal isn’t flowing. 
If a tree falls in a forest and no one’s around to hear it, does it make a sound?

Audiphile1,

Yes, it does!

If you do not connect the wire to the battery, then how does the current flow?

Come on, you are smarter than that.

ozzy

@ozzy I stand corrected. Somehow I thought if the preamp is in standby there will be current flow because some of the circuits are kept alive in the preamp but no. I just measured the interconnects with my integrated and there’s zero magnetic field when it’s in standby. You are correct sir! 

Well, if Ozzy and Audphile1 agree, I'm sold. Thank you for the insights. 

Tent- That sounds like the way to go. With WFH  and weekend listening I get a good 25+ hours/week and the cables already sound good. Thanks.

GB McLeod- Fortunately these aren't Nordosts, so the break in is less excruciating than what your went through.

PHD/GHD/Mark2000/Z-lone - Thank you for sharing your break-in views too. I'd add that all of this does point out the benefits of buying used cords sometimes, but in this case what I wanted wasn't available used.

Awesome thread. Thanks everyone!

A load is needed to complete a circuit for current to travel in the circuit from the source through the load back to the source. No load, no current. No current no electromagnetic fields.

Does a closed circuit exist if the preamp is powered off? I think it depends on the design of the input circuit(s) of the preamp. What type of input switching is used to switch from one input to another? The basic type is a mechanical rotary contact switch. A more complex type of switching is done with relays. With relays what is the state of the contact when the preamp is turned off? Open, Closed?

Here is a schematic wiring diagram of an older Conrad Johnson PV10 preamp. It uses a manual rotary mechanical switch to switch from one source input to another. If the connected source is a CDP and the rotary switch is set to that source input there is a load connected to the CDP output jacks. (CDP connected to preamp using ICs.)

Balance Pot (R27), Volume Pot (R28). Those are in series with (R12) that connects the circuit back to the signal ground of the input jacks. (We have a closed circuit.)

There is also another circuit load depending on where the volume Pot control was set when the preamp was shut off, powered off.

.

What if you prefer the sound of non broken-in cables? Do you have to replace all the cables every week or so? I have a few Morrow cables that supposedly take 400 hours or so to break-in, and generally forget about that and completely miss the magic moment when that happens. Damn.

@wolf_garcia when I like the the sound of non broken in cables more, as soon as I think they broke in I reverse them (if it’s RCA) and run them for as many hours as it took to break them in. That restores the cables to the original state.
But this is a tedious process in your case with 400hrs on the Morrow. So every time you do that just flip them every few hours or so…don’t let them break in. 
It’s also very possible that you missed the magic moment the moment you bought the Morrow cables…

OP
 

👍

From what I have read and my own experiences with two different burn in devices, it is the dielectric you are exercising, not the wire. There is a symbiotic relationship between the two for noise suppression and durability, yadda yadda. I believe the stress relief offered by running signals through the cable (bad word) relaxes the dielectric. Someone jump in here and help us understand if perhaps the million volts applied by some cable manufacturers in their factories isn't the same approach.

Regardless, I have really enjoyed the Hagermans I have now and after 3 to 5 days on those devices the sound is very enlightening.

Happy listening guys.

From the blog at silversolds.com

While this is specifically about Stager Silver Solids pure silver interconnects, it applies to most cables:

"There should not be a need for a long, extended break-in period, as many cable makers claim, actually hoping your ears will adjust.
I’ve gotten several different opinions regarding break-in from different users. A few, whose comments I posted, found that no break in was necessary. The cable should sound fine from minute one. Improvements, if any, are generally very subtle.

https://silversolids.com/

....there is the skool of distraught that the most involving way to break cables is to have a willing assistant (clad in revealing vinyl of a known dielectric value; leather does not work...) that's 'into punishment' submit the new wires to some real break-ins'......

Be nice, tape the connects into a handle.... ;b

M&M's.....how quaint....*L*

Just off the phone with CJ and the preamp does need to be on for current to flow and cable break in. (Streamer playing and that input selected of course as well.) Ozzy, Audphile1, JEA and whoever also said that are spot on and thank you.

Bug Red - interesting thought altho wouldn’t massive current damage the wire? If some voltage level could do that quickly without damage to make break-in very fast perhaps Cable manufacturers would be doing it?

ASV Jerry - thanks? Maybe what’s best is advice from Quicksilver Messenger Service: Have another hit...of fresh air.

Happy listening +1

I have been looking at different IC’s recently.  The first thing I do is plug them in and listen for maybe fifteen minutes,  write a few notes and then remove them from my main system and put them in another system (in the basement) and let them run in 24/7 for a week. Then I reinstall them in my main system and listen and write some notes. Then I compare the notes. I’ve done this with Power, IC, Digital and speaker cables and speakers (if I can muscle downstairs 😁).

Can’t say I’ve always heard a difference, but more often than not I do.