I have the disc. The premise of this discussion is that bits of the system have become magnetized. My chassis are copper and aluminum. My cables are silver. My connectors are gold plated copper. All the above are non magnetic materials. Circuit boards are tin plated copper. So same story.
So which bits would become magnetized? Inductors and transformers most certainly generate electrical fields. But that is in the power supply. I am not using output transformers so nothing to align there.
That is not to say that the disc is not helpful is some way.
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Will this also work with a CD transport or is it affecting the dac in the CD player?
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I had just received the Ayre CD from Music Direct last week and just played it yesterday. I have difficulty with subtle improvements if I am not doing a side by side comparison but I will say my system sounded great and for $20 I will continue to play the CD on a regular basis.
What I can say is that I added Cardas Audio Multi Blocks last month to get all of my cables off the floor and segregated and with that I can say my system opened up with a noticeable improvement.
It is another inexpensive adjustment and I am a believer in the sum of all parts.
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Just did the Ayre disc..like it a lot...XLO arrives this afternoon...got a bunch of friends lined up to borrow both...fun stuff...
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My little brother was a Manufacturing Engineer at Sony for 25+ years. He is a Purdue graduate but the little snot has as many patents as I do. (I worked in both Aerospace and Automotive in R&D and Design/development for my career). He took me on a tour of their CD manufacturing line back in the early 90s. Back then it cost less than a dollar to make a CD as I recall. The discs are injection molded polycarbonate with the pits that define the digital information molded in place. So that part is very similar to the manufacturing of vinyl records- just instead of pits the record has the grooves molded in place. Next the discs are inserted into a special vacuum chamber and pure aluminum is sputtered onto the disc just a few atoms thick to make a perfect mirrored surface. A UV cured clear coat lacquer is bonded over the mirrored surface to protect the mirror finish. I remember him telling me at the time that CDs were not considered archival because the aluminum is not perfectly sealed and can eventually oxidize. CDs are estimated to last 100 years, he said. So its not a bad idea to rip them into FLAC files. I have a gold CD and I imagine it is the same process just sputtered with gold as the source material instead of aluminum. Hopefully it will last a long time since it was expensive. Finally, the labels are silk screened onto the discs and they are packaged into their jewel boxes. He said they produced 3 million discs per day back then. CDs had a 2.5 second cycle time and DVDs were 3.5 seconds. The master disc is made by laser etching a photo film on a glass plate, the residual material washed away and then nickel plated. This plating with the pits (digital information) is about 0.25 mm thick. The positive master is molded from the original master disc and then the working molds pressed from the positive master.
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If you have a CD Player, you need to do this periodically...
I immediately thought "play a record or two to see how far you still have to go...'
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If you have a CD Player, you need to do this periodically...
I saw this and I immediately thought the answer was 'use it'.
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Tony w said it...use xlo and ayre.
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itsnotjustyou- Let me explain. No amount of techno-jargon can change the fact you derided a tweak that works. Not that I don't have some sympathy, you are trapped in a false paradigm. Here's the thing: it is not on me to explain why anything works. It is only on me to listen and evaluate. That's it.
Therefore, if you can't hear it, no problem. Simply admit you cannot hear it and move on. Perfectly fine course of action. We all know listening is a skill, which like all skills some are better at it than others. Also means it can be developed according to time and effort put into it. I am on record for once being unable to hear any difference between DACs, among other things. Long time ago, put the time and effort in, quite good these days. But it is learned it does take effort and no shame admitting you are not there yet.
It sounds like a dig and a put down but think about it, in reality I am offering you a lifeline. You don't have to spend your life digging around in a dark rabbit hole of techno jargon. You can come out into the light and listen to music. If you like what you hear, great. Do more of that. If you don't, sorry. Do less of that.
Anyone can understand. Of course this means setting aside all those big words you worked so hard to learn. You will find it impossible to lord it over any skilled listener with technobabble. Simply does not work. You will find it hard to develop these skills. Few things worth doing ever come easy. In the end you may gain the unequaled satisfaction of being able to do something and readily hear the difference.
Or go on with your check sums and bits and whatnot.
Your call. Choose wisely
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The green CD pens do improve the sound. When they first came out, I was skeptical, so I tested. I still have a couple new ones left. But don’t use CDs much any more.
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@millercarbon, thanks for that information, I’m going to swap out my Krell K300i with an older intergrated tube amp and give it a whirl as well. My buddy had mentioned specifically tracks 6, 7, and 8 to run repeatedly. I have run the whole disc on repeat overnight while sleeping at 1/4 or 1/3 volumes while I’m out of the house. I remember him stating that on a couple of tracks it may sound like your speakers are about to blow up but not to worry, and I actually did think that when I ran it the first time, scared the crap out of me. I thought my Monitor Audio Platinum PL300II were about to become burnt toast!
I am not an Engineer, but can honestly say it works. The sound is much more fuller, richer, and very open, I was floored! I’ve tried many audio tweaks with a few snake oil treatments thrown in. This is one tweak that does works in my opinion.
Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays, and the best in the New Year to everyone, cheers.
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I have been using a bulk tape eraser on my CDs since the mid 90s. It makes a difference. I remember back then I had a buddy come over with some duplicate CDs to mine. So we were able to listen to his untreated discs compared to my demagnetized discs and then demagnetize his and listen again. Since then I demagnetize all of my new CDs. The bulk tape eraser was about $20 at Radio Shack back then. Turns out it works.
CDs have a thin layer of Aluminum sputtered onto the polycarbonate disc. Aluminum is paramagnetic. We also figured some of the CD label inks may have metal in them. Perhaps even weak spinning magnetic fields jostle the laser head. Who knows? Demagnetizing CDs works so i just do it.
My brother worked at Sony making CDs then DVDs until they moved it out of the country. He says CDs have an analog component to them. Part of it is that the time domain is mechanical (The spinning disc) but the part I don't understand is why does a clean disc play louder than a dirty, smudged disc.
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@millercarbon
Seriously? Like you haven't seen my posts or followed my links on why the "digital" input signal is in fact quasi-analog. Anyhow.
That assertion carries a HUGE caveat; whether it is truly digital or quasi-analog depends where and when in the signal chain.
When the signal hist the DAC chip, timing matters nad that's analog. Until then, no. And in the magnitude domain (what's coded in the 16, 18, 24 bits), why yes, it is purely digital and very robust.
Now, the optical CD itself is different yet again, and no traditional digital. You either ignored my reference to EFM or don't know what i is. EFM (eight-to-fourteen modulation) is the coding format of pits on the CD. It is in fact quasi analog, but has full error detection and then correction after decoding - so impacts are known. And uncorrected ones are very rare.
So, at that point:
1. The "digital stream" is minimally, if at all, at risk
2. it is optical not electrical, and therefore magnetism is even less relevant
So yea, it is on you to explain this. Arguments like the one you mad here continue to confuse the issue and give naysayers ammunition. Yes! We need to deal with the analog timing component. No! i doesn't matter anywhere except right at the input to the DAC (assuming, for simplicity, a traditional PCM ladder DAC).
So all, we need to be careful about this - details matter.
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Thanks for the recommend brauser. Thanks for finding places for us to get one zimick and Willy-T. Mines now on order. Sight & Sound in Atlanta carries the Densen De-Magic Demagnetizing CD. Can’t vouch for S&S having never purchased anything there. New owners, please report here how well your disc works after it arrives, or prior to that if you’re prescient.
Mike Muad’Dib
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Acoustic sounds has the Cardas Ayre disc in stock
Just ordered one
Best tweak post on here in months
Thanks Willy-T
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Itsnotjustyou, an awful lot of audiophiles also don't know CD is not digital. Anyways, not on me to explain how or why something works, just that it does in fact make a difference I can hear. The rest is on you.
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There's a number of good tracks on that disc. I burned the two demagnetizing tracks onto a CD one after the other repeating several times so they can easily be played and demagnetize during warmup. The effect is not huge, but definitely is there.
Other good tracks- walk around the room clavis resolving the room, when your system is dialed in it is uncanny how you can hear him walking around especially behind you. In phase/out of phase, when dialed in the out of phase is downright freaky, absolutely cannot tell where the sound is coming from!
This CD helped me learn to identify the differences between DACs and tubes and ss, by listening to the various music tracks and paying attention to their recording notes. Prior to doing this I noticed differences but never made the connection why.
Demagnetization was at first hard for me to hear. I would play these every once in a while, sort of thinking maybe better but never really sure. Problem is once you do it, you can go AB but there is no BA, you have to wait a while for things to go back.
What I wound up doing instead is run it every night no matter what. After a while this becomes your new standard. Once you get used to it, if you then don't use it a while then when the system goes back to grunge you notice! So now it is a regular thing, couple times a week, always before any long session I want to be real good.
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@millercarbon thanks for the post, I was wondering about the Sheffield XLO disc, which a friend had given me awhile back, cheers.
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@millercarbon - how does EFM get distorted, without resulting in a a bit error? There is no timing synch at that point of the recovery chain....
Was "greed pen" a typo? I DID try a green marker back in the day. It clearly made the edge green.
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Elusive Disc has the Ayre disc in stock. 19.99
too inexpensive to not try!
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Yeah, them laser lenses really get magnetized. Doesn’t jibe with anything I know about optics and lasers, but who cares when you can buy something to fix it just in case.
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You all must of cleaned out Amazon, because jerryg123’s link says item currently unavailable.
JD
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@jdoris
Thanks..
You tried the Ayre CD and it did nothing in your opinion. I have zero problems with that as that was your genuine experience. Enough people have posted positive outcomes with this product so I am willing to see what outcome I’ll have.
You won’t know if you don’t try is my position. People who offer strong opinions on things/items they have no experience with have no credibility as far as I’m concerned.
Charles
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@charles1dad
Fair enough! I enjoy your posts.
To be fair, Ayre's name for the product invites a bit of fun.
I never used the green pen, but I did use expensive CD cleaners.
I seemed to have a genius for scratching CDs, and am mostly glad to be done with them (except when my fragile rural internet fails).
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OK, i'll bite: what is being demagnetized?
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@jdoris
My post wasn’t directed toward you at all. Rather my response was to the ‘wise guy’ snarky comment mentioning the green CD pens. It was an uninformed comment in my opinion.
Charles
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@charles1dad & millercarbon
Totally agreed there should be fewer derisive comments around here.
My comment was that I used the Ayre disk commended in the OP and did not notice a difference. Given the cost (assuming you do not buy a dedicated CDP to implement!), I did not disrecommend it, but I'm betting a good percentage of those who try it will have my (non)experience.
(Btw, I don't dispute that "break in tones" could be useful for new speakers; my observation applied to older equipment.)
It will be interesting to hear the new adopters weigh in.
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I use the Isotek System Tune Up Disc , it includes a demagnetization track amongst the other tuneup tracks
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The green CD pens actually work by the way.
Derisive comments serve only to burnish reputation among those who find it easier to dismiss out of hand than do the work of finding out for themselves. Credit and props to those who do put a little more effort into doing audio than expounding on that which they do not know.
Agree 100%
Charles
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I suspect it’s not magnetism but static electricity that builds up on discs. What magnetic material is on a disc?
Ink used on the labels may contain metal particles.
I believe static can build up on the clear polycarbonate plastic layer
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Also don't forget to protect your player from direct sunlight.
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Well, I ordered one, thanks to Jerryg123's post.
With so many recommendations, it was hard to resist for a paltry $20.
I just checked the link again and saw that they are sold out now.
Not to worry, there's a couple of sellers on eBay selling used ones for $50. 🥴
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The greed CD pens actually work, by the way.
Derisive comments serve only to burnish reputation among those who find it easier to dismiss out of hand than do the work of finding out for themselves. Credit and props to those who do put a little more effort into doing audio than expounding on that which they do not know.
I've been demagnetizing for years. Since the 90's, when you could buy the Radio Shack Bulk Tape Eraser for $20. Then much more expensive (but no better) options came along. Still use it on a regular basis.
Demagnetizers work by creating a strong magnetic field that being AC oscillates flipping directions. Held close and then slowly moved away allows the fields to slowly randomize and become demagnetized.
The XLO Test CD has demagnetizing tracks I use several times a week. Even though most of what is in the signal path is non-magnetic still there are impurities and regions that are.
The way magnetism works, a strong magnetic field can orient metals along field lines. If the magnetic field is strong enough to align and then quickly removed it magnetizes the metal by leaving them in alignment with the magnetic field. These small islands of magnetism distort the music signal. This is pretty much what all music is, powerful dynamic transients that come and go. Over time these islands of magnetism build up.
The idea is playing a tone that slowly fades out is analogous to using a hand held demagnetizer. Another track sweeps from low to high frequency, accomplishing the same trick but across a wider frequency range. The XLO disk has both a steady tone that fades and a sweep tone.
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Not familiar with the Densen, but have been using the Ayre disc for almost 20 years now, and...
it's in better shape than I am (good reliable stuff).
DeKay
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For $20 and $3 shipping +tax, I ordered it 2 mins ago. Why not? I used a gift card on amazon last year and there was $9.81 left, bonus. I could be an Ayre bot, it sounds like a fun bot to be. I am not a traffic light bot either. This is way too may botchecks, tired of traffic lights, crosswalks, buses.
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I suspect it’s a great way to take peoples money. Like the green CD pens 30 years ago.
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I suspect it's not magnetism but static electricity that builds up on discs. What magnetic material is on a disc?
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I just sprinkle holy water on my CD player.
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I'll bite. See if it's any different than Tellurium it Q System Disc
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Would there be a problem if I played it periodically from the copy of the ayre disc I have in my hard drive .
play it through my server, dac …..
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+1 on the system cleanse benefits the Isotek disc performs on my systems.
While we are talking about it demagnetizing CDs impacts a noticable improvement to the sound quality as well.
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Isotek won an award for this in 6 moons over 15 years ago ,I use it as a breakin cd as well as track 3 a 5 minute system demagnetized tune it it truly works I use it every few days if you go a week , listen to one track you know well. Then put on track 3 ,or whatever disc you own ,then replay the same song, it clearer performance and more settled. They stil sell the Isotek cd for $35 on line
I ripped it to my hard drive track 1 and 2 for large and small speaker run in
and works well with equipment taxing the capacitors for faster runin.
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I use the Isotek system enhancer CD which is the same as the Esoteric one. I use it twice a year on both set ups.
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I use a couple to. I also degaussing my ES Sonys. Anything with a physical hard drive you have to be careful, you'll wipe the drive.. If you open up almost anything that has spinning or moving parts with unlike metals, some become magnetized. There is only one way to fix it.. Degaussing. Same with all stereo equipment. How often is it done. NEVER.. I have R2R, Turntables, and silver disk, I degauss them all.
Please don't degauss a Server and if you do, would you please take a video and post it.. Thanks
Merry Christmas..
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Yes, I am keeping CD players in my systems for this reason and also that I have a ton of burned CD Playlists that we still enjoy. In the 'house system' I'm using a Rotel RCD - 9658x which is at least 25 years old and it still seems to get the job done.
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wouldn't this be a reason to keep a cd player, just for it's supposed periodic benefit?
a cheapo portable cd player would do, correct?
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Is there anything to read about this Irrational thingy?
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for $20 I'll give it to an audiophile friend as a "present" ...
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@jerryg123
Thanks for the link. I'm unfamiliar with this product but for 20.00 dollars I'll give it a try.
Charles
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