I want to replace the router/modem Comcast with a high quality for streaming

Honestly haven't paid for cable TV in at least 10 years.  Everything I want to watch is on a streaming service.  I had Sling for a while, but forcing me to buy news channels as a bundle instead of picking one or the other was a deal breaker.

hello ​​​@erik_squires,

makes sense now that I see you run ethernet out of your wifi router / switch.

as I have Verizon fios  fiber running into my garage, may I assume that it is relatively free of lightening surge risk?  I also have whole house surge protection on my main meter.

I recently had my ISP install the most recent router they have available for their customers: Calix. I was surprised to see and hear significant improvements in the video and audio performance on my television and the audio delivered from my Aurender streamer. I had no expectation that the router would affect system performance at all, let alone so significantly.
 

For reasons not worth going into here, the Calix does not work for me in my current home. So, having observed that their router made an obvious and easily detectable difference in the delivery of audio and video information, I decided to buy three different routers to determine which offered the best performance for me in my home and with my system: Eero 6 mesh, tp-link axe5400 mesh, and tp-link axe7800 gaming router. All three resolved the technical problem I had with the Calix, but their handling of audio and video differed significantly. Without belaboring the point with too much detail, the two mesh systems’ performance were approximately equal to that of the Calix. But, the TP link gaming router delivered significantly better audio and video services than any of the other three. At the $159 Black Friday price, it was one of the cheapest, yet effective tweaks I’ve made to my system in years. I highly recommend it.

@hce1 

"But, the TP link gaming router delivered significantly better audio and video services than any of the other three."

I am curious, would you describe specifically how the TP link gaming router made your audio system sound better (i.e., which sonic attributes of your system improved and in what way)?

Xfinity has a list of compatible modems on their website somewhere.

Xfinity pricing is bizarre. All I wanna do is exclude all the premium channels that are bundled including a Netflix subscription I don't use I make an effort to do this they say they're gonna charge me overall $50 more per month. A substantial increase just to reduce the level of services.

The equipment charges along with those broadcast fees are getting quite crazy.

Price and I do have a separate modem and router that I don't have to rent but they do have compatibility issues so you need to check very carefully. 

@fastfreight  Yes, so long as there is not a metalic Ethernet cable that is going from inside to outside.  Then the only thing you have to worry about is long Ethernet runs.  Some are lucky enough to not need Ethernet, and can run their home 100% on Wifi.  Those folks don't have the same concerns.

Please remember that for power protection the NEC and whole house surge protectors still recommend surge strips at the point of use in addition to anything in your panel.  If you live in a relatively safe area you may not care but here in the south where we are prone to lightning strikes I recommend extra precautions.

@lalitk Yep, that is what I had to do.  I've done that every since I had roon but I thought that with a modem with 2 ports I might be able to eliminate one cable and one connection....but I think the modem has 2 parallel 1 Gig systems as opposed to 2 ports into the same system.  I've never gotten around to buy a nice cable to go from the modem to the router so I'll order one today.

thanks,

Jerry

@carlsbad2 

Jerry…I am using 50FT LinkUp Cat 8 - 22AWG LAN cable from Amazon. The 22AWG version is pretty stiff so no sharp bends. The 26AWG version is more flexible. 

Sure. The fundamental improvement it offers when compared to the other routers I auditioned is a very significant reduction in the noise floor. I hear all of the musical benefits one would expect from a darker background: deeper and more realistic bass, more natural expression of note overtones and decay, better presentation of spatial cues and more “natural” location of instruments in the soundscape, and I hear more deeply into music to discover things I’d not heard before.

For reference, my digital path:

router - generic cat-8 - etherregen - DHLabs eth cable - Aurender N200 - Von Gaylord Legend SPDIF & DHlabs USB - Devialet Expert Pro - Reference 3A MM de Capo BE

@mitch2  see my response above

@lalitk 

"I have taken a single feed from my Comcast modem to my switch which then feeds my three connected devices (DAC, Streamer and Content Server)." 

That is exactly what works for me.  The server is connected to the switch as are two separate Roon endpoints and it all works flawlessly. 

"The 22AWG version is pretty stiff so no sharp bends. The 26AWG version is more flexible."

I too took your advice about the LinkUp Cat 8 cable and use the stiffer 22AWG for runs of 1M or over (the shortest length they sell is 1M), while using very short runs of the more flexible 26AWG to connect switches to peripherals like FMCs.  Regardless of which of the two gauges, those seem to be very well-made CAT cables and particularly the connectors, which appear to be very similar to the well-regarded Telegartner connectors.

Right on @mitch2

I have a Netgear C7000v2 used with Spectrum as the internet carrier.  I've had no issues with it and it covers my modest 1000 sq-ft cottage with WiFi quite well.  What I did notice though is that until I added an Uptone-Audio EtherREGEN device which regenerates the Ethernet signal to my music-server, I was unable to get streaming music to sound as good as that from the same music loaded into my music-server.  So, cleaning up the Ethernet signal is an important part of better listening in my opinion.  

1. Go with direct 1G Ethernet copper cabling wherever possible. It is infinitely more reliable, economical and has much higher bandwidth. 
 

2. Do not “power line Ethernet” products. They do not work. 
 

3. Buy off-lease enterprise grade Cisco switches, firewall and mesh wireless access points instead of TP-Link/assus/Trendnet or any other consumer brand. It will work better for much longer. 
 

4. Use major name jacks and patch cables from Leviton or Belden or Hubbel and use brand-name Cat5E or Cat6 cable instead of cheap no-name low quality cable. 

After reading this thread, I checked my actual internet speed compared to what I am paying for and found it to be only about half what it was supposed to be.  The Comcast/Xfinity website was helpful by showing that my modem is outdated, the non-Xfinity modem options that are considered current, and a link to the speed test.   I then purchased a new DOCSIS 3.1 Gigabit cable modem from the list that will hopefully provide the speed I am paying for. 

I feel lucky to have found this thread.

Starting at the Basics, I am at present purchasing electrical cable for my home which is to undergo a substantial renovation.

My electrician friend assisting with the new electrics is aware a separate earthed spur is wanted for the Audio Set Up. 

The way things are unfolding, the Audio may be reduced to a Streaming Only arrangement, FLAC files and possibly a Hired Music Service as well.

What is the best options for me in relation to having Cable concealed in the walls?

How many wire runs is required?

Any info to help plan will be great. 

@pindac Cat 6 or better, shielded is plenty good enough for all streaming. 1GigE has more than enough bandwidth for even video.

If shielded, you may want to ensure your wifi router has grounded plugs.

@mitch2 “…that will hopefully provide the speed I am paying for. ”

Good luck with that. Bird dogging Verizon to get what you pay for is a full time job. When you don’t get it with a third party modem / router they will claim it is your router. 
 

Don’t get me going.

As strange as it might sound, this is a real Newbie on such an area of Data Transfer. 

How many Cat 6 or above Cable Runs is sensible planning? 

@ghdprentice - Xfinity just left after helping integrate my new Arris SURFboard T25 DOCSIS 3.1 Cable Modem, which doubled my internet speed over what I was getting with the previous modem.  Speed Test showed well over 500 Mbps now, which is certainly all I need for my home usage and which was well worth the $112 cost.

@pindac 

When doing a major renovation a few years ago I put in flexible plastic conduit with pull strings inside to help future proof the installation.

@mitch2

Glad to hear it. See how long you have that speed.

Xfinity would not touch my Modem / Router.

Also check your billing for extra charges. They charged me $100 to put in their router and a couple mystery charges. No cost other than the monthly charge told to me by the technician.

I was to follow up on the Cable Type, Run Requirement, with a question about Containment. 

I witness miles of Data Cable being Installed it is usually laid in a dust controlled environment and is usually concealed under a Metal Clad Floor Tile with Screening Properties?

I was to inquire if a metal conduit would have any benefits for routing the Data Cable? 

If you have access to fiber optic or DSL you could make the switch and stick with the router the provider supplies. I have a secondary mesh network router system that piggybacks via ethernet cable from the main fiber optic router. The only thing on my mesh network is my hi-fi system. All other devices run off the main router.

No major issues but no noticeable improvements. I just have the hi-fi system on its own network separate from everyone's electronic devices. 

@bipod72 Am i correct if I read your post, with the interpretation, with the idea that I would be best to have two runs of CAT 6 or above Cable. With one of these being dedicated to the Transfer of Data for the Audio Only.

The main listening area for the long term owned audio system to be set up, is most likely to be an external of the home dedicated space, hence a digital only audio set in the remodelled home.

Would it make sense to run a separate feed again to the external of the home space, or extend an allocated cable run to be used solely for audio? 

I am acquiring all Cable Types for the project as an advance purchase, hence learning of the lengths I will need. 

Depending on how long that audio run is you may want to consider using fiber  optic.  I had a 50 foot run of cat-6 and replaced it with a fibre optic link and it was a definite improvement.  Transceivers and cable where under $150 on  Amazon.

Side benefit of electrical isolation also.

New Investigation for myself. 

Fibre Optic vs CAT for Audio 

Being a Student is a place I like to be 👨‍🎓.

Here's are some links to the products I bought on Amazon.

Media Converter with Transceivers

Fiber Optic Cord

It can be a bit confusing with the terminology (MultiMode Dual LC Fiber, etc.)

@pindac Correct. So from your central model to your primary router you would have the single run. Then split off from there to another router. Each router either dedicated to wi-fi & data and the other to streaming/hi-fi duties. The other thing is that my wife works from home and having a separate wi-fi network for the data usage means less lag when I want to stream music since it's on its own network. 

Time Warner was nearly the death of me and then we moved and Comcast was worse.

A somewhat germain remark to add here...I heard a while back ago that Time Warner, Comcast, Verizon, etc. had a lower approval rating than congress. That still true?  

Hello Fastfreight,

Regarding your Verizon Fios G-3100 router, I had difficulty matching the barrel size of the DC cable from LPS that I tried to power the router with. Seemed like DC plug was closest to 2.8mm but not exactly. Do you know what size barrel the plug is? I may try the LPS again. 

Based on my experience what worked for me has been:

1. Put audiophile grade network switch in front of your streamer - I use LHY8

2. Put the best network cable between the audiophile switch and streamer - I use Revelation Audio Labs cable. totally awesome cable, imo

3. Use very good power cords for both the streamer / switch and feed good electricity

4. use non-audiophile grade switches to avoid using a long ethernet cables. by doing this, it lowers noise I found. 

5. If you had something like Synergistic Research Pod, put it on top of non-audiophile switch. It smooths the sound. I use one and it has made definitive improvement

Something I should add to my story for folks who don't think that everything can matter. As far as I know my wifi was just fine but we got a notice from Xfinity that they wanted to come out and address some issue that could lead to a future outage. Never heard that before but said ok and made the appt. The guy comes out and all he did was change out the coaxial cable from the splitter that divides modem and cable box. I was previously getting speeds in the 60-80 mb range after the change of cable always over 200 just now measured 261 mbps a radical and unexpected improvement!

Another vote for the Netgear Nighthawk router.  When I moved back to the big city, the wife ordered Spectrum. As soon as it was installed, I unhooked their wireless router and put in the Nighthawk.  The wife can watch all the TV she wants and I can stream all the Hi-Rez tunes I want.

@jond 

Congratulations, great improvement.

After switching to their router/modem (from a top of the line Netgear Nighthawk) last month we final got the 1,200mb we have been paying for for years. Last night the movie kept stoping as the speed was at 12mb and dropped to three or less repeatedly. 

Hello @jmfinney ,

Regarding your Verizon Fios G-3100 router, I had difficulty matching the barrel size of the DC cable from LPS that I tried to power the router with. Seemed like DC plug was closest to 2.8mm but not exactly. Do you know what size barrel the plug is? I may try the LPS again. 

I too tried unsuccessfully to find the correct DC barrel plug for my LPS.  So  I told Verizon that my AC adapter was defective and got them to send me another one.  I had Joe Kubala cut this one off and make me a new DC cable.  Not ideal but better than the wall wart!  

@bipod72 Thank You for the instruction, I will be making a provision for something that is working towards this type of set up.

This is an interesting area of conversation, as usually the Source Material for replaying recorded music comes of what can be described as an obsolete Hard Medium.

The Source Material that has Superseded the use of Hard Medium, is transferred as data (data packets) through the Internet.

The Internet is substantial in how it is used, and functions superbly for most needs,, but when it comes to supplying data that can be interpreted as a Quality suitable for Audio purposes, especially in the sub sector of Audiophile Quality. There is seemingly a lot to consider to ensure the data packets are able to be received as uncompromised as possible to achieve.

After reading a few methods for what can be done within the home, is there any things to be considered to ensure the data getting to the home arrives as a optimised date packet?

As I initially intend on producing FLAC Files to be used as the source material, I believe the upstream of FLAC Storage is addressed in the suggestions offered so far.

Streaming Source Material is not of the menu, it will be something that is evolved onto.

@fastfreight Seems like the only way to get the right DC cable for Verizon is to cut off the DC connector on the wall wart and make a new DC cable.

@macdude this is EXACTLY what I did.  Except I got Verizon to send me a new wall wart since mine was 'defective'!  So I have a very new and nice Kubala Sosna DC cable with an existing Verizon plug on the end!  It sounds amazing being powered from my SJ DC4 AR6!!!  Sound and picture have improved!

@fastfreight From what I read, if you use Verizon Fios only for internet, you can bypass the Fios router and connect your router directly to the ONT with ethernet.

I'm not surprised the DC cable improved the sound, they have a big effect on audio. But it improved the picture quality too, that's interesting.

Hi @macdude !  Interesting.  But I do feed house Verizon TV and Mesh Wifi off of the Verizon Modem and then also feed my audio switches and separate modem and wifi just for audio (Clean Network through GTT DeJitterit).  Thanks!

@ghdprentice Aurender caches the stream and plays it back from SSD. That's probably why the Verizon routers didn't make any difference.

However, my Xfinity router will still inject noise into the Aurender via the ethernet port. I used a Gigafoil to mitigate that.