I'm definitely more in the music than the gear camp. There are a couple "mantras" I like.
- Steve Guttenberg's (I think) A good system makes average recordings sound great (as opposed to managing some extreme "audiophile" obstacle course).
- Andrew Robinson: The only person who needs to like your system is you.
My own 2c are that there is more variability in music recordings than gear, so "optimizing" a system to the nth degree is futile. A fortiori, if you listen to a wider range of music. Solo viola d'amore and EBM/punk are worlds apart sound-wise. I enjoy both. That is the problem with the test-track approach to system optimization. It leaves out the vast majority of music, and deprives the listener to the joy of diversity.
To illustrate that, some of my recent interesting music purchases:
- Laibach, 2025, Alamut. Avantgarde neoclassic.
- New Haunts, 2024. Hooks. Eery, neurotic coldwave.
- Algebra Suicide, 1999. Still life. Minimal post-punk spoken words.
- Propter Hoc, 2025. Seduction and Betrayal. Old-school new wave.
- SIIE, 2025. Acmé. Swiss-german francophone EBM-electroclash.
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My own 2c are that there is more variability in music recordings than gear, so "optimizing" a system to the nth degree is futile. A fortiori, if you listen to a wider range of music. Solo viola d’amore and EBM/punk are worlds apart sound-wise
Sorry but your 2 cent is not enough...
"timbre" perception and immersive quality of sound and spatial indexes of sound are precise acoustic concepts with no relation to genre of music, styles and other crocodilian tastes, i mean my own innate tastes...
Then system/room can be and must be optimized, mechanically, electrically but especially acoustically ...
I listen all music genre save pop and rock...
Bad recordings as well as better one...
Most of the Russian pianists schools of the past is badly recorded but as said Guttenberg you quote and he is right , they sound better on a better optimized system..
I consider myself an audiophile not afflicted by "upgraditis" ...
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OP,
Just my opinion and may Not be applicable to you, just me
I believe you (or anyone else) may have reach the point of knowing that your gear is at its peak and what you hear is the best sound quality you are aspiring for. for the price maybe that you are willing to impart.
Just a background, I started this HiFi journey when Covid started. I did not really know what true good sound is other than what i heard from numerous concerts, operas and live shows i have been too, other than being loud obviously, i can hear each instrument as they are being played, or singers as clear as they can sound.
So, I endeavored to replicate this at home and no way I was able to do it, except making thing loud. So, I relied on the opinion of others and Reviewers and statistically gathered all and made some conclusions. I listened to equipment and with generous return policies during covid, i tried numerous models because i had time at home to do it. (I cannot believe how many times I was at the Post office or UPS) returning gear, as I journeyed, I realize that some equipment sounds good to my ears but has a so so reviews and some gear sound OK I think but has a lot of good reviews and Reviewers uses them as their referent gear.
Ultimately, I found the gear I wanted and importantly, it has synergy. With this said, I can now learn what is it that most audiophile generally want in their music and magically the Lightbulb lit in my head!! So, this is what I am missing after all. It’s not too far from what i wanted to do or attain, making it sound close to what I heard in actual venues. but there are Compromises and that is what one has to live with
At this point, I know what Quality Music is. I stop obsessing over it, because the next level up is beyond what i can afford. So, I just enjoy the music. The fun is listening to OLD Vinyl recordings. that is truly where I am right now. as I can tell myself, THIS is what music as recorded and played back sounded in the good old golden years.
Enjoy the music and be Happy
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This is a good discussion. The first piece of advice many years ago was by a small solo owned higher end shop in our town. I was auditioning speakers and trying to be very A/B at home and this was becoming frustrating. He suggest I take two sets of speakers home and just sit and listen non-critically. The "first one you want to turn off after a while that gives you fatigue you bring back, rinse and repeat until you are satisfied....don't over think it." I did well with that advice then all hell unwound and I fell down the rabbit hole over years until I shelved it all. Now it will begin again but hopefully being older will make me wiser.
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@laminarman "...This is like photography."
Yes it is.
I have pursued photography about as long as high end audio. Over the last ten years I added a Leica M10 to my stable. And then set out to figure out if the Leica Look was a thing. In the process developed a real appreciation for the camera lenses and the art of photography. Lots of fights with the sharpness as a single dimension... like the details are all guys in audio, and that there is very much something special about a Leica. Like my audio system now.
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Don’t think twice, it’s alright! 👍
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@mapman ”l never refer to myself being an audiophile”
That’s a great way to think. I generally hate the term audiophile, and the “baggage” you fefer to that can come in tow. It can all sound a little presumptuous. I much prefer to use hi-fi enthusiast or as you have previously posted, a “hi-fi music buff”
To say, “l am an audiophile” can be so self serving and who knows for sure?
One thing l have learnt is there are a lot out there who are sure they are, but after hearing the newest system, the gear is definitely nothing special.
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"audiophile " means someone interested by sound properties of music implied in gear pieces or system/room use..
Nothing to fear here.
And it is not necessary to lend negative pretenses or intentions to the neutral term because it suit us.
"hifi" enthusiasm suit me less well ...
It suggest more pricing focus on high end gear and gear fixation...
"audiophile" is more neutral ... We can be interested by sound qualities (acoustics) more than by high end gear upgrades...It is my case as "audiophile" ...Hi-fi enthusiast is nearer as expression to marketing than acoustics...
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Quite simple, really. Audiophile meaning : A person who is enthusiastic about high - fidelity sound reproduction. Whether it is the equipment, the music, or both, it can be different for each of us. @rvpiano , I am glad you have reached the "music" enjoyment part of your journey. There is quite a lot of "information" embedded in our recordings, and if you want to extract more of it, spending money on upgraded gear, makes you an audiophile. If you can get to a point where it is the music that grabs your attention and enjoyment, it is a wonderful thing. There are listeners who are more into the "sound" than the music, and that is ok for them, as long as they are enjoying it. For me, since I was a youngster, the music was always numero uno. Likely why I can listen to, and enjoy, recordings of all "qualities"; in the car; boom box; phone; anywhere. The "sound" of my main system allows me to hear and appreciate more of the "intricacies" of the musicianship and the composition, and yes, I am hearing the recording quality. This makes me an audiophile, and I am not afraid of characterizing myself as one. However, I am a music listener, first. Be well, my friend, and enjoy! Always, MrD
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@mrdecibel
i’m at the point now where I’m very happy listening to my system, and really enjoying the sound. And it’s because the music is now primary. So, I do believe I’m a somewhat reluctant audiophile.
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... Audiophile meaning : A person who is enthusiastic about high - fidelity sound reproduction. Whether it is the equipment, the music, or both, it can be different for each of us ...
That's pretty much the accepted conventional meaning of "audiophile." I don't know why the word seems to trouble some people.
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@mahgister ”hifi” enthusiasm suit(s) me less well…”
For once mahgister l am not in total agreement with you. I believe understanding “hi-fi enthusiasm” and the origins of the term is an age thing. I think l am older than you (l presume) as l started on this hobby in 1968. Audiophile was not a term used in the 60s, 70s or 80s as far as l can remember.
Hi-fi enthusiasts were in those early days of stereo hi fidelity were not buying super priced high end products…. They didn’t really exist. Those that bought the best at the time had decent well made mass produced products reasonably priced. People like myself would experiment with the gear they had and would try and tweak the best sound they could out of “what they had”. Trying different cables to the speakers involved simple solutions like solid core copper mains cable is one example. The hi-fi magazines at the time talked about ways to achieve small gains in quality. The press was more about the electronics (for those gifted in the knowledge) or building your own speakers and maintaining your equipment. Not like today’s magazines that just want their readers to buy more, more, more, and reap in the advertising money.
So l have to disagree with you thinking hifi enthusiasm means spending larger amounts of money over what an “audiophile” does today. Looking at the history of the term hi-fi enthusiast, to me it means more about spending less money and getting the most out of what you have. It also means buying more vintage gear and being satisfied with it, for what it is. Much the same as a car enthusiast that wants to restore a classic car. He makes it the best it can be, keep it up to standard for the age of the vehicle.
Audiophile also implies buying the best you can, maybe like @rvpiano suggested about “obsessive” and more often at fantastic prices?. Of course like yourself you have proven that you can buy cheap and nothing wrong with that. I think that makes you a hi-fi enthusiast. Getting the best out of what you have with little expense is more about enthusiasm than anything else l know.
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You are completely right!
I goes too far about "hi-fi enthusiast appellation..
I was focused on the pejorative attribution and refusal of the appellation "audiophile" by some...i am not fearful of this word... I am audiophile (interested in acoustics ) and hi-fi enthusiasts (tweakers)
You are completely right about the era... I come to this world in 1951..  and /or
@mahgister ”hifi” enthusiasm suit(s) me less well…”
For once mahgister l am not in total agreement with you. I believe understanding “hi-fi enthusiasm” and the origins of the term is an age thing. I think l am older than you (l presume) as l started on this hobby in 1968.
Hi-fi enthusiasts were in those early days of stereo hi fidelity were not buying super priced high end products…. They didn’t really exist. Those that bought the best at the time had decent well made mass produced products reasonably priced. People like myself would experiment with the gear they had and would try and tweak the best sound they could out of “what they had”. Trying different cables to the speakers involved simple solutions like solid core copper mains cable is one example. The hi-fi magazines at the time talked about ways to achieve small gains in quality. The press was more about the electronics (for those gifted in the knowledge) or building your own speakers and maintaining your equipment. Not like today’s magazines that just want their readers to buy more, more, more, and reap in the advertising money.
So l have to disagree with you thinking hifi enthusiasm means spending larger amounts of money over what an “audiophile” does today. Looking at the history of the term hi-fi enthusiast, to me it means more about spending less money and getting the most out of what you have. It also means buying more vintage gear and being satisfied with it, for what it is. Much the same as a car enthusiast that wants to restore a classic car. He makes it the best it can be, keep it up to standard for the age of the vehicle.
l believe audiophile implies buying the best you can, maybe like @rvpiano suggested about “obsessive” and sometimes at fantastic prices?. Of course like yourself you have proven that you can buy cheap and nothing wrong with that. I think that makes you a hi-fi enthusiast. Getting the best out of what you have with little expense is more about enthusiasm than anything else l know.
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Personally I've always preferred the term 'hifi enthusiast'. 'Audiophile' has aways sounded a bit more than a little pretentious than I like. Too much like a title than a description. I hate titles.
I just bought some stuff from England online. I filled out the order which was duly rejected because I did not include a 'title'. I used 'Mr' which was acceptable but dammed if I know why. I almost typed in 'Duke' to see what would happen, but then I thought that a lack of a sense of humor would defeat the sale.
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Some want to place all audiophiles in same bag, for them it means always listening analytically, obsessing with equipment. This may be true for some audiophiles and that's fine with me, no skin off my back. Not all audiophiles like this, obvious by so many threads over many years in this forum. The definition given above is the actual meaning, so don't let others define you.
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@newbee ”sense of humour”
We English love a sense of ironic humour. Often more when it’s understated.
I have a question on the ironic side…..
If you paid upfront a 15% import tariff, will it be a more forward sound and 15% better?
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I dont need to listen analytically now...( i needed it when i tuned my room )
I know what is the balance between all acoustics factors now...
If i perceive an unbalanced factor i correct it ... ( not by a costly upgrade by the way )
I am an audiophile interested by acoustics concepts and experience...
Since my system/room is minimally satisfying i listen music... ( my concept of minimal acoustic satisfaction threshold)
If anything catch my attention as unbalanced i correct it... ( i recently bought filters and buffer for my linear power supply at very low cost because i wanted to decrease the noise floor level and increase the reserve power of my tube pre-amp equalizer Douk T8 pro )
I use equalization for my headphones and speakers... My room and my modified speakers and headphone being already optimized...
Each day i enjoy music with no critical frustration ,,,
If there is a problem, i correct it ...I dont need critical mode of attention...
I need knowledge ...
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The OP posts regularly on feelings....he may be currently experiencing
After a while it gets boring.
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@slaw After a while it gets boring
l agree about getting to the beetroot of the problem….
It can be like eating salad day in, day out. Not everyone likes lettucepray or coleslaw, but then again, some do.
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I like what I've presently play about with, the reproduction I coax out of it, the range of music and the 'other versions' of the arts of noise that please some but not all.
I enjoy taking innocent speakers and rudely modifying them into a version that I can't afford to do so otherwise.
How you feel about that, and how you might object....?
I'll avoid the argument, life is too short, and my hourglass is bottom heavy.
My spouse sent me this:
https://www.wired.com/story/debris-hi-fi-speakers-are-made-out-of-rocket-fuel-tanks/?bxid=5caac4cf3f92a405d5b239ce&cndid=55207457&esrc=MARTECH_ORDERFORM&hasha=723ecc123fbd0ec33b09ec28b57425df&hashc=19a2ae21e13b86bd9c99ce423a7068d711fb9bd150f00ada48cb64ed54c6b606&utm_mailing=WIR_Daily_090125_UNPAID
I'm a fan of 'creative re-use', But.....
- Mine look better; currently rough at the edges, but I'll go up against these NOW.
-I don't like the concept of 'diffracting' sound waves with cones and/or spheres. It's hard enough to deliver a coherent sound field with current tech as it exists to everyone's agreement. There's already enough bouncing off the floor, ceiling, and walls even with treatments.
-SAF is Nil. She'll file, get everything, you end up with ear buds.
-Mine are lighter. Even the larger ones.
...but I'm just odd and in the way.... ;)
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@asvjerry “…my hour glass bottom is very heavy”
l have the same problem.
My ass is getting very heavy, l listen to far too much music, with coffee and biscuits….
One thing is for sure and thinking about all this seriously, can this all indicate subconsciously that l’m very happy with my sound?
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I am so glad to learn that i am not alone with an ass bigger than my chair...
@asvjerry “…my hour glass bottom is very heavy”
l have the same problem.
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@mahgister “…glad to learn l am not alone with an ass bigger than my chair”
l think @asvjerry was referring to his longevity and being nearer to the grim reapers visit, but he may care to confirm one way or the other, if one or both are true.
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I use the term audiophile to identify myself to normal people because it’s the quickest way to tell people about one of my priorities. It’s faster than saying “I am obsessed with equipment that reproduces the music that I love and spend what people would consider insane amounts of resources to accomplish this goal.”
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@mahler123 “l use the term audiophile…”
Well said sir. If you need to say it go forth gallantly. Man should know his limitations.
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@mahgister “…glad to learn l am not alone with an ass bigger than my chair”
l think @asvjerry was referring to his longevity and being nearer to the grim reapers visit, but he may care to confirm one way or the other, if one or both are true.
Oups!
I apologize. You are certainly right.
It is not the first time nor the last i misunderstand some post.
My bad English mastery ?
For sure...
I am not as bright as it seems... No doubt... Thanks for the correction...
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@mahgister ”Oups!”
Think nothing of it. I am sure @asvjerry is having a great laugh along with this discussion.
Good to lighten up. Reminds me of “The Joker” line…”Why so serious?”. This forum can get so serious.
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@mylogic I took it to mean his arse and the sand of life were bottom heavy, but only @asvjerry knows for sure, oh and probably his wife. Enjoy the music
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I enjoy @rvpiano posts. Our perceptions/psychology are an extremely critical component in our audio systems.
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I always refer to myself as an audiophile. Someone crazy enough to put enormous effort and money into the endless pursuit of perfect reproduction of music. It’s a clinical term. I am afflicted with it.
It isn’t a bragging term as over my lifetime, in any 10 year period, no more than ten people ever saw it, let alone listen to it. It is a very solo affliction.
One fun test when I was in my twenties was does your stereo system cost more than your car. That has been true for my entire life... even when I got a Lexus, then two cars... and it now cost more than my first house.
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I concur...
The impressions of a very perceptive man is an occasion to meditate ...
Thanks to the OP.
I enjoy @rvpiano posts. Our perceptions/psychology are an extremely critical component in our audio systems.
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Si if you won 10 million you wouldn't try some new speakers? With kids entering college I've become more content too, but if I search I know in my hearst there are monetary reasons also. Just me, priorities slow my pace but I'd give those Oden's a try!
If you are enjoying what you have put together, as I am, that's all that matters imo.
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