Hot off the press...Technics SL 1300G

Pindac, is there such a product as a clamp that weighs 1 kg? If so, you’re quite correct that such a clamp places the same burden on the bearing and thrust pad as does a 1kg weight. However, no clamp that I know about weighs much more than 100g. I use the venerable SOTA clamp. I also use the weight provided by Kenwood for use with their L07D TT. It weighs 250g. That’s about as heavy as I personally would use. The L07D platter is partially magnetically suspended, which mitigates the potential issues.

@ozzy62 I was also curious about Technics 1200G a few months ago. I went to a local seller’s house to audition. It is a very good TT for the price. I liked the energy (especially good for reproducing live music) and accuracy. In spite of all the great qualities, I did not move forward with the purchase. To my ears, it was ’too’ neutral. Again, this is not a negative as I’m sure for many people this is a huge plus.

My old Micro Seiki TT, while nowhere close to Technics in terms of accuracy, energy, and stability, has a certain ’bloom’ that I quite prefer. It adds a bit of romanticism to the music, albeit, at the expense of accuracy. My digital front end is quite good at the moment, so when I listen to analog, I want it to sound different and not necessarily better. I found the sound of 1200G closer to my digital setup.

But with that being said, I’m conscious of the fact that what I heard at the seller’s house that day was his entire system and not just the 1200G. It is quite possible that I might have reached an entirely different conclusion had I heard the 1200G in my own system. I remain interested in acquiring a 1200G at some point though.

Would not a 1Kg Spindle Weight of the alternative Spindle Clamp Weighing 1Kg both place the same bearing pressure into the Thrust Pad ?

Both are Weights that are able to apply additional down force through the Spindle, hence the Ball and Thrust Pad are receiving the point force from the New Load.

lewm questioned the "spindle stress" statement better than I could.  I was about to ask in a somewhat less scientific way.

I am a user of Spindle Weights only and have in my set up adopted 1Kg Weight as the most preferred. A later addition of a Composite 1Kg weight proved better for tidying the end sound up than the Homogenous 1Kg weight.    

The spindle itself is a solid, machine cylinder made of stainless steel usually. How can it possibly hurt the spindle to pull up on it as with a record clamp? On the other hand a record weight undeniably puts added burden on the bearing and thrust pad. Those are wearable items. Somehow, the reasoning of the foregoing statement (see previous post) eludes me. The whole point of a record clamp is that it improves contact between the record and the mat without adding any appreciable stress to the bearing and thrust pad.

"I prefer the weight because the clamp imposes stress on the spindle whereas the weight does not. I cannot detect any sonic difference in the use of one over the other."

jmeyers- 

So you can fit a rubber washer, place a LP over that and the clamp has enough spindle to dish the LP flat?

 

I own a 1200G. I also have both a SOTA clamp and an HRS weight. I prefer the weight because the clamp imposes stress on the spindle whereas the weight does not. I cannot detect any sonic difference in the use of one over the other. 
 

The arm lift is manual and works very well. 

JP Jones found the tiny flaw in a PCB that was causing my Victor TT101 to malfunction, after two other excellent techs could not. I then also bought his recreation of the MN6042 chip, which he installed in my SP10 mk3, even though the OEM chip was working fine (because JPs discrete version affords a small improvement in speed accuracy vs the original). So thanks, JP, wherever you are.

@knollbrent @lewm

Thanks!

Wow, that’s too bad. JP refurbished my EPA-100 in Feb, changing the bearings and wire and fixing the bias, among other things. It sounds wonderful. He did say he was going to close in April but I thought he meant for vacation. Now I feel extremely lucky.

Find him at Fidelis Analog. He’s a qualified EE who may even have an affiliation with Technics. Among other things, he re-engineered the MN6042 chip needed to make the first generation Technics TTs run correctly using discrete parts on a PCB no bigger than an OEM MN6042 chip.

Whoops! Just looked at the website. JP closed Fidelis Analog in May.

@yogiboy

JP was on Audiogon awhile back, might still be here.  How do I describe him. Surfing scientist that has the technical skills and patience to fix some of the most difficult analog equipt known to man. Those that know JP, probably have a better description of him. Basically a nice guy who has great analog equipt and knows how to fix challenging gear. That’s it!

Just curious who is JP?

And the SP10R platter mates and fits a 1200G? Which surprises me even more than the fact you can acquire one. But I suspect JP would have the wherewithal to make that work, if no one else in the US could do it.

@lewm got mine from JP

The stock SL-1200G mat is 3 mm? Is that correct? I have one on the way and also have a SOTA reflex clamp I’ve had for years.

I reached out to a dealer and was told the SL1300 won’t be shipping until December.

Still wondering how west coast got hold of an SP10R platter.

atmasphere-

I was hoping for you to drop by and provide some insight. 

"The one I feel works best on there is the Oracle mat, but then you have a problem with the spindle being too short for a collet-style record clamp. In due time I hope to fix that issue.."

I suspected it is a concern for a proper reflex style to function. How can you fit the rubber washer to dish? I will be looking for your solution.

Thanks all for the reflex clamp update.

In spirit I'm all for ridiculous TT $etup$, but have to "keep it real" due to a constantly thinning wallet!

SOTA DD on a "budget" may be the  final  call for me. I'd like to put a cool arm on  one and be DONE!

Too bad there isn't  a 1200G w/o the pitch control and that blue LED sensor!

The 1300G plinth/base actually appears visually acceptable.

@tablejockey, I have a 1200G and am able to use a SOTA reflex clamp with the stock mat. I’m not certain but I suspect the 1300G has a similar dimension. The 1200G spindle is shorter than normal.

So far mine is stock, although I got one of the recommended Teac paper mats to try. That is thinner so will provide more spindle area to grip, not that I seem to need it.

BTW, I was disappointed when Technics decided to retain their older cosmetics in their new, redesigned line up.  But that didn't keep me from buying one.

Ok, lots of good information in this thread. So what is the preference? The 1300G or one of the latest 1200 variants?

 

 

It's good to see legacy manufacturers producing relevant and competent products today.

And, designing the PC board in the shape of Florida is good marketing.

A bit off topic…. I have a 1200G coming and wondered if there were a decent functioning autolift for it?

I have a Purpose Produced SS Platter that is to be used on my MkII, with my present situation, it is out on loan being tried by a few other MkII users.

One users report is that it adds some lift to the upper frequencies, and on certain tracks this is welcome. The Two Edge Sword for this individual is that they claim it has masked detail on certain tracks.

A system needs to be known very well to capture the changes.

@tablejockey I know the SP10 R very well and at present is a TT I receive demo's of more than any other, even my owned TT's. The TT still has the Factory Supplied Chassis, but does allow for other TA's to be utilised. I am familiar with a12" Glanz used with the 10 R. 

How and where do you buy an SP10R platter as a separate item? 

@stereo5 +1 I use SP-10R platter (heavy beast) on my SL1200G… sounds perfect!

 Dear @tablejockey  : About the use of Clamp it depends first how much minimum heigth needs the Clamp to function because different Reflex Clamps are not exactly alike in that specific regards and the other issue to take in count is the Mat thickness you are planning to use.

 

But a serious drawback in the 1300 is that does not comes with the Magnesium tonearm but Aluminum.

 

Regards  and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,

R

 

'It would also be great if Technics offer a Motor / Platter only with a purpose produced Power Supply - Speed Controller"

pindac,

What about the SP10?

https://us.technics.com/products/direct-drive-turntable-sp-10re-s?_pos=1&_psq=SP-10&_ss=e&_v=1.0

My original post question has not been answered-

Can a reflex clamp be used? Spindle looks too short?

Much needed for some of my used gems. I can flatten most on my VPI.

 

no matter how many upgrades you make to SL 1200, and trust me the KAB upgrades are just scratching the surface, you’ll never get close to the level of the new ones. Or you can just scrap this whole conversation and go with the SP 10 MK3 or R. problem solved 🫢

It would also be great if Technics offer a Motor / Platter only with a purpose produced Power Supply - Speed Controller. This would enable the user, more options on how there TT can be a end design, i.e, Plinth/Chassis Design where materials selected and end aesthetic are the end users choices. There will also be an easier route to choosing a Tonearm or Multi-Arms if this was the option.

The strengths of the Technics DD TT's are not made known because of the Companies selection for a Chassis.

I can’t recall who asked about the coreless motor but someone else asked what they would miss if they stuck with SL1200 vs any G series, and my response was they’d miss the coreless motor, etc. YES, the G series and now the G2 have coreless motors. All earlier Technics DD TTs right up to the SP10 mk3 flagship had iron core motors, albeit you won’t hear or detect cogging with the SP10 mk3.

This is all I need to know... to get the 1200-G. Steve’s had far more expensive turntables... and... he believes the 1200-G is a much more practical, reliable TT with equivalent sound quality... at a much more reasonable price compared to those he had previously.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ln3ZX6QRo8c&t=813s

Definitely a matter of taste. I LOVE the pedestrian look…

To me …this appears to be what the 1500 c should have been… instead it was flimsy and wasted value on the integrated phono.

The 1500 was made to please too many at too low a price point.

the 1200 look has always been a bit cheesy to me… But much respect to the function and sound!

The 1200 look makes me think of the old Smuckers commercials

(The old G’s will know what I mean by that 🤣🤣🤣)

@tablejockey 

That is the sticking point for me and I know it shouldn’t matter. But they look so pedestrian.

Based on specs, the 1300 essentially has most of engineering of the 1200G/SP10

Naturally, Technics did things to meet the P.P . 

Out of the box, a stock 1200G can be a "done" piece.

The aesthetic is the deal breaker for me.

dig what you are saying there…and fwiw, I have tried most of the technics line …

 

Definitely NOT trying to get the board hot…but i was just getting back into tables (for the third time) years back. and literally did a side by side with a vintage 1200 and a Scout, same cart, all same equipment.

 

I’m more than sure that the Aires is a different animal than the Scout…but for me, my tastes, the scout was less full, less lively, just plain less enjoyable to listen to (and not by a small margin, as they say)

I cannot speak for the Aries 1 or 2…but the Scout sounded like a toy (to these ears) compared to just a vintage 1200. That being said, I wasn’t real impressed with the 1200 GR for the money…warped platter too.

 

This has promise…if they’ve solved their warped platter problem.

 

Since then, I’ve lived and learned and have owned many of both type…right now, im running a BD.

My conclusion: Each tech has it’s inherent strengths…

 

I don’t really know how else I could have asked the question. I’ve never heard a technics table, but have heard all the hype for many years. It’s something I would explore if it makes sense from a sonic perspective.

@ozzy62 if that’s the case, then I’ll apologize…. strange way to ask that question and then respond…but hey, im getting old…i don’t even know the proper use of the new pronouns!

 

Truly beg your pardon.

@ml8764ag 

WTF are you talking about “taking exception”? All I did was ask the question. And when I received an ambiguous reply, asked for clarity. I’m not a VPI (or any other brand) fan boi. It was a serious question from someone who isn’t riding in their first rodeo and expected a serious answer. 

 

The Technics SP10 Mk II is the model that moved me on from the regular use of

ID TT's that I had been loyal to for many many years.

The ID TT is the drive design that ended my interest in BD design TT's.

I can't see any reason to change, as I still occasionally use my ID TT and receive demo's of other ID TT's. I am wed to the DD Drives and my SP10 MkII with a modification for the Speed Stability serves me very very well.

Even crazier is the Mk II TT alone, cost almost the same as the owned Speed Controller used with the ID TT.    

@lewm sorry …your post implied the core-less motor is gone?  Maybe I’m misreading or misunderstanding your post🤔. ….however, I just read it DOES use a coreless motor…just not the same.

 

what is your source?

Ozzy appears to be looking for a scrap…asking how they might compare …then taking (exception?) to an answer.

Subtle as an oil spill, Ozzy!😉

Grow up, guys…OP happens to be asking about a Technics DD…let’s not push this into the primordial debate about Belt vs. DD tables…which … by the way…can’t ever be WON ! 🤣🤣🤣🤣

FWIW, it’s illegal to bait game in my state! 🪤

 

(I’ve owned and loved both)

 

 

Mark me down as EXTREMELY interested. Thanks for sharing. I do wish they’d put a good autolift on these.

IMO, This table (appears) it could be at exactly the right price point.

I am almost afraid to ask …and I couldn’t tell from material…is it a hinged Lid?

I don’t like the non-hinged lids of the later 1200 offerings…or I’d already happily own one of those.  
 

when there is a lid…smoke them a bit…the look is infinitely more elegant!

 

(but this is still an awesome offering by Technics)

ozzy62/tablejockey,

I've been in this hobby for decades and never gave up on vinyl when the digital onslaught hit.  I've owned multiple belt and DD tables.  My last purchase was a SL-1200G and I find no reason to look any further.  

I had a Kuzma Stabi with Stogie Reference arm which was a very good belt design.  Then I found a Technics SP-10 Mk2a in decent condition.  That gave greater dynamics and more even tonal hold (piano examples) as the most obvious difference over the Kuzma.  I intended to have the electronics refreshed and a custom plinth built but never seemed to get to it.  Then the SL-1200G came out so I got one as a simpler answer.  As lewm said, the advantage of the coreless motor.  Silent background and great live energy to the music, I'm happy.

The VPI and other solid belt designs can be good and preferred by some.  There is no consensus in this hobby.  Sorry but you need to decide for yourselves.

"So the Technics is in a league above the Aries?"

ozzy62-

I’m a VPI user also. In speed accuracy Technics wins, unless you have the Phoenix/Sota RR setup?

Otherwise, just a personal SQ call.

SL 1300 + aftermarket arm= SOTA DD on a "budget"?

So the Technics is in a league above the Aries?