Has the cost of HiFi gotten a bit too much?


I don't have any specific example but just from looking at it overall, it seems like high-end components prices have really risen more than inflation.  

Or may be it is must me?

andy2

Neo-nazis, skinheads, conspiracy theorists, etc.

I always enjoy how people in this forum result to name calling and labeling when someone posts an opinion they don't agree with. Just ignore it and move on.  

 An article about Goethe criticism of the irrationality behind fiat money...

When the banks need money, they issue bonds. The FED purchase the bonds, but since the FED doesn’t have any cash, they have to print money out of thin air.

I understand there is a need to expand the money supply when the is a growth in population or goods.  But lately it's been too much printing.

The FED doesn’t print money. Banks are not Ponzi schemes or conspiracy theories thought up by the (Rotchchilds"Jews" ). Damn forum is being infiltrated by NeoNazis and skin heads.

Mixing irrationally antisemitic stance even with Hitler "extract" against jews with world economy and Central Banks will not change a reality that has nothing to do with the Jewish people...There is no infiltration of skinheads here save for comic book reader...

By the way the first Central Bankers meeting were created to force and planned for Germany payments for the first world war immediately after it...This has nothing to do with the Jews...

Are you one comic book reader?

 

Goethe was one of the first to analyse the Ponzi scheme and the hyperinflation crisis behind fiat money in the "second Faust".... He criticize John Law the English man behind fiat money not the Jews....It is not Mein Kempf here but the second Faust and the I.Q. of some neo nazi and Goethe are not the same...

 

 

By the way are these authors in this article i proposed as an example of serious people equating Bank politic with Ponzi , picked on the internet, are they also neo-nazi?

For some superman or marvel comic book fans here perhaps...

But for intelligent men they are not...

The Guggenheim group cited in this article here control 340 billions in asset are they neo-nazi?

it is ONLY an example...Of serious people criticizing some hyper inflative stupid politic behind central banks at particular moment in times like nowadays....

Go out of marvel comic book ....

Start to read...Not the New-york times or any other Us newspapers... Guess why?

No not because they are owned by the jews but because they are own by three multinational corporate investing groups...Like big pharma...

 

 

 

 

 

The FED doesn't print money. Banks are not Ponzi schemes or conspiracy theories thought up by the (Rotchchilds"Jews" ). Damn forum is being infiltrated by NeoNazis and skin heads.

The Fed prints money out of thin air. Look up fractional banking. The Federal Reserve is owned by mostly Rothchilds.

Want to see what one hi-fi retailer thinks it can get you to spend money on? I am NOT making this up, the following were pictured in today’s email from The Music Room:

- Roller Hero Tubility Belt, a leather (looking, at least) utility belt that has loops to hold small signal and power output tubes. Yours for the low, low price of $799.

- Kitty Kable Riser. This 4-pk. of cable risers not only serves its’ obvious function, but also wards off pesky felines. Only $1,199.

- Best of all: TMR (yes, The Music Room invented this product, and claims to have patended it) Maxcavator 99.9999 Pure Silver 6-Piece Audiophile Earwax Removal Kit. If the kit’s $2,759 price tag seems a little high, remember: it includes six utensils, and they are not made of that inferior .999 pure silver, but the real deal: 4-9’s silver. After using the kit’s utensils, you will finally hear music reproduced in full fidelity. Does the kit come with a money-back guarantee? ;-)

The banking system is by definition a conspiracy against the very notion of what money could be : a concrete map of the cycle of goods creation, from their creation to their recycling destruction...

The trick was to make a map with an apparent value higher than reality itself....Simple mathematics help much here....

Money  is about to be nowadays more than ever a universal anonymus enslavement instead of a personal liberation...

And zombies think that no conspirations exist for sure because they sleep on their own for sure ...

 

Similarly people are brainswashed about new products publicity and forget about mighty low cost acoustic knowledge and devices... Is it a conspiracy? 😁😊

Yes AND  no.....

 

 

«A glass of water means more and has more value than all bitcoins »-Anonymus Smith

«Conspiracy is like evil , his only trick is to be hidden in plain sight»-Anonymus Exorcist who is also a reader of Orwell and Huxley

«Magicians know there is not so much a conspiration than a defect of attention» Anonymus attentive student

@mahgister 

"To answer this thread the cost of hi-fi has never increased like the prize of butter in Canada.... From 3 dollars few years ago to 9 canadian dollars at regular price...."

 

I did a shop with my wife today and it's quite clear that there has been a considerable rise in prices recently.

Yesterday I went out for a meal and noticed that the prices had risen by about 15% in under 3 months. In some cases - cooking oil, margarine, and tinned peas etc it's more like 30%.

My cousin recently told me that the price for replacing a front door with a PVC one is now £1200.

On the other hand my employer has recently said that we are to get a wage rise of, wait for it, 0.95%.

Oh well, I guess someone has to pay for the costs of the lockdowns, and it's not going to be the global banks, is it?

The best way, IMO, to build a really fine audio system is to completely ignore the nonsense from peddlers, self-aggrandizing poseurs, and self-proclaimed audiophiles about what "Hi-end" means, and what is the minimum $$$ outlay required to reach that exalted plane of existence.  Sample gear, listen for yourself, and find the gear that speaks to you. Learn some acoustic and treat your room. And forget about what anyone else thinks.

I think you'll find that you can build a far better system, at a far more reasonable price, today (well, when the supply chain gets unfutzed) than in years past. So if you want "Hi End, sniff, sniff," yeah it's going up. If you want high quality gear and great sound, you have far more to choose from now than 50 years ago when I started out, with a much greater value/$$$ ratio.

Sorry, didn't mean to interrupt the financial one upmanship, carry on...

It’s too bad because all this nice equipment from Dan Dagostino, Boulder, and even some Pass Labs is only attainable if you take out a second Mortage.

not really -- at least for pass -- their first watt amps are relatively affordable and even a pass xa25 is a $3500 amp used, as is an int150 which is also just superb

@bdp24 Was it really Mark Levinson who started charging these ridiculous prices for Preamps, Amps and DACS ?
 

It’s too bad because all this nice equipment from Dan Dagostino, Boulder, and even some Pass Labs is only attainable if you take out a second Mortage. 

It's all very well saying that all prices are rising. That is broadly true. However the audio industry was merrily hiking prices when inflation wasn't a factor at all. So what you have now is a situation where prices are indeed ridiculous. The industry only has itself to blame if the momentum from Covid is completely lost.

It is simpler than all of these long winded posts. There is more money out there chasing the same goods. If demand even stays the same, the prices will go up. 

this is high end audio, discretionary elite spending...as mentioned by many, the cost of very good quality audio is less than ever...

Has the cost of Hi-Fi gotten a bit too much ?

Yes less than butter and less than the stupidity of politicians around Occidental world in general...

How is it?

When someone paint himself in a corner you have it....

----By the way there is NO universal conspiracy...

One of the law of stupidity is that «Stupid people are those
whose efforts are counterproductive to both their and others’ interests »

 

----But there exist many colliding conspiracacies...

because there is another law of stupidity that define «Bandits being those who
pursue their own self-interest even when doing so poses a net detriment to societal welfare» Then to themselves too in the long run...

http://www.cantrip.org/stupidity.html

 

----- the two other categories of people are for Carlo Cipola:

«Helpless people or well intentioned one, who
contribute to society but are taken advantage of by it (and especially by the "bandit" sector of it); note, however, that extreme altruists and pacifists may willingly and consciously (rather than helplessly) accept a place in this category for moral or ethical reasons»

And:

«Intelligent people
contribute to society and who leverage their contributions into reciprocal benefits»

The book of Cipolla is the best about stupidity....50 pages...Free to read....

😁😊

 

I will add some intelligent " bandits" become stupid by themselves with time because their goal makes them blinds to others goal, and at the end make them "stupid" in spite of their apparently  working brain... This is the case of political leaders in declining civilization and political empires... They paint themselves in a corner BECAUSE of the way their intelligence focus ONLY on their short term interest...

 

The reason Biden stopped the pipeline, fracking and exploration was to increase prices to curtail usage and CO2 production.

That certainly qualifies as a world wide conspiracy theory.  So, what tweaks have you installed lately?  Were they effective?

BTW, didn't the previous President remove the federal barriers to the pipeline on his first day in office?  And over four long years the pipeline wasn't built.  Do you have another conspiracy theory to explain that?

And to add some historical facts.  In 2017 the U.S. was the largest producer of crude oil in the world.  In 2021 the U.S. was still the largest producer.  Somehow producing all that oil is "torturing" the economy.

Well  do what I intend to do.   Move to Lisbon Portugal.  
I’ll save 6 grand a year on health insurance and that includes private insurance over there.  No need for a automobile, and house rentals just outside the city are half the price here.
 A cappuccino is 2 euros instead of 6 bucks a Starbucks here, and all food half price in restaurants AND   and just about ZERO crime (except for the stupid USA tourists with wide open pockets on their cargo,shorts).

AND……Just about perfect weather as it is here in San Francisco .

Just plug that SS check into one of their banks and getbavD7 visa.

Then buy some higher end equipment.

@ghasley , whatever news outlet you are watching you need to dump. What you think you believe is 100% wrong. With lower gas prices utilization increased. The reason Biden stopped the pipeline, fracking and exploration was to increase prices to curtail usage and CO2 production. It worked but it is torturing the economy. Wouldn't it be nicer just to make electricity cheap? Then people will switch to electric home heating and electric cars all by themselves and happily so. I suggest everyone read up on Molten Sodium Reactors. 

on the bright side you can buy a integrated today for a grand that will trump a 5 grand amp built 20 years ago

New "Hi End" audio equipment is very high now.  People talk about how the prices back in the day was reasonable.  But, that is also relative to what a person could afford back then.  The salaries were very much lower back then also.

So, it's all relative.

But, the used audio equipment market is still fairly strong price wise.  Especially when a manufacturer discontinues a very good piece and replaces it with a new piece.  Then the people in the amp of the month club will sell their piece to replace it with the newer piece.  Great for some of us, because that piece they are selling was exactly what we were looking for but couldn't afford until the replacement piece came out.

Cars on the other hand have gotten ridiculous. seriously.  especially used cars.  That is just greed plain and simple. 

I remember after college in the very early 80's I purchased a top end Yamaha system (don't laugh, it was quite nice) and I think Klipsh speakers.  I enjoyed that very much and thought it was "high end".  Then found out about Mark Levinson, Thiel, etc. and others and found a totally different level.  But, the prices back then for a newly printed Engineer was still out of range for me.  So, to me it's all relative.

Unless one has the money for new out of the box products, then the used market is the way to go in audio.  But, if you have a good relationship with a reputable audio dealer, say for example Randy at Optimal Enchantment in Santa Monica (now retired), who would let you take equipment home for in-home demonstrations, that is best.  Randy would simply put an album on the system, sit back while you listened to your preferred equipment and smile knowingly.

enjoy

A nice convertible Bentley will cost a couple hundred thousand. The price of cars is just getting too expensive!! 

High end stuffs do cost a lot more money but the issue I raised is that the cost has risen quite a bit lately.

 

A nice convertible Bentley will cost a couple hundred thousand. The price of cars is just getting too expensive!! 

Seems like what one can buy for $1,000 - $3,000 (entire system) is far, far better than what was on the market 10 years ago - well in excess of inflation. “Mass market” quality and fundamentals seem to advance with crazy speed

To me, audio actually seems like a bargain with a marketing problem

As to serious $, who cares? That stuff was always (a) fun and/or technically interesting to read about; or (b) made for customers who don’t care about price

All consumer markets have segmentation.  The question is whether one’s segment is improving over time, and that seems an obvious “yes” for all audio segments, at least to me

Would love to hear differing views, understanding of customers etc - good discussion

Have a great day!

Audio is one of the few things I spend real money on as a hobby.    But without a doubt, the money I spend is worth it given the enjoyment I get from my system every day , hours a day.

The increase in audio prices starters long before the current inflation crisis.  There just isn’t a large market for two channel audio.  Economy of scale has been lost.  Ordinary consumers will spend the extra money for to hear bullets whizzing behind them during movies, and the audio produced by these systems are more than adequate for casual listening. The elites who lead our hobby have been compromised by their loss of advertising by extolling the virtues of 10000 dollar phono preamps that can be outperformed by a 10 dollar op amp, and 1000 wpc mono locks fed by 8000 power cords.   My 20k system at a bricks and mortar store could be spent on a tonearm and cartridge in the blink of an eye

The world of technology is a tribute to man’s ability to learn and contribute to those before him. So whether it be audio, financial or medical, the progress has been incredible. But those whom are ignorant and uneducated in the disciple but they feel they know better are the reasons civilizations fail. I am thinking of The Story Of Civilization (Will Durant). The complexity of the world (given by the hard working and well educated people starts to look like a conspiracy theory… because all must be obvious to the arm chair expert. As Will Durant. saw… civilizations rise like a spark and flame… but fizzle and die in ignorance.

 

My partner and I have five graduate degrees between us. We probably spend four or more hours learning each day (for me more) for the last 35 years… we know little… but quite a bit in several disciplines. Technology, finance, economics, philosophy, history, cognitive development… astronomy. Each day is an opportunity to learn more.

Great post!

i concur....

 

If people did not buy this stuff the price would come down. Unfortunately, the 1%ers are determining what the rest of us can afford. On the other hand Rolexes are ugly boat anchors. There are hundreds of good looking watches that are much less expensive that tell time just as accurately. Audio is no different. There is a lot of equipment that does not appeal to the rich that is every bit as good as the equipment they are interested in. The Parasound JC 1+ is a great example.  

If people did not buy this stuff the price would come down. Unfortunately, the 1%ers are determining what the rest of us can afford. On the other hand Rolexes are ugly boat anchors. There are hundreds of good looking watches that are much less expensive that tell time just as accurately. Audio is no different. There is a lot of equipment that does not appeal to the rich that is every bit as good as the equipment they are interested in. The Parasound JC 1+ is a great example.   

Mine are off the floor, the carpet isn't wool though. How do you clean your floor if the cables are just laying there? I'm guessing not to often. The only sure conspiracy, "dirty cables". It's only a conspiracy if the cable fairy cleans your cables and NOT mine. :-)

 

it certainly seems rational that anyone who believes in raising cables off a wool carpet would also believe in worldwide conspiracies, absolutely

Anyone making this sophistic assimilation resemble more to a troll than to a benevolent poster....

Raising cables from the floor, which i dont do anyway , has nothing to do with the B.I.S history for example ....

But i am sure that at your level of thinking you dont have a clue about B.I.S. history for example...Bank of international settlements...Or  Blackrock...

 

Who confuse the corner where he painted himself into with truth?

A clue: it is not your neighbour sometimes no.....

Think by yourself and dont put all people you dont like in the same bag for the sake of labelling them and insulting them ...

Sarcasm is not always an intelligence sign...

Benevolence is a better sign on the long run ....Try it....

 

it certainly seems rational that anyone who believes in raising cables off a wool carpet would also believe in worldwide conspiracies, absolutely

it certainly seems rational that anyone who believes in raising cables off a wool carpet would also believe in worldwide conspiracies, absolutely

First: i believe in Helmholtz acoustic method , even if i myself created my own tweaks also at NO COST...But my main acoustic grid devices are Helmholtz devices, PURE SCIENTIFIC DEVICE IN ACOUSTIC.... And like i already said all "tweaks" dont make a method even if they work and some work because i experiment them , BUT tweaks dont replace and will never replace proper  acoustic/psycho-acoustic science and acoustic  devices control  ... This is what i said if you read my posts...

Second: If you dont see many corporates worldwide conspiracies now behind "politics" you need help... Ask help from your children years school teacher it will be enough ... 😁😊Or buy books...

Third : putting people who advocate any "tweak" in the same bag with some alleged deluded conspirationist, this category exist for sure, is borderline trolling INSTEAD of thinking....

Is it clear?

I’m just speculating, but is their a positive correlation between those who use and believe in audio tweaks and those who believe in vast worldwide conspiracies? One rabbit hole is as good as the next, I guess?

 

I'm currently streaming an absolutely lovely performance of a Mendelssohn quintet performed by the l'Archibudelli String Ensemble. On Idagio. I haven't a care in the world.

I'm just speculating, but is their a positive correlation between those who use and believe in audio tweaks and those who believe in vast worldwide conspiracies?  One rabbit hole is as good as the next, I guess?

By the way i try to not classify all people in a thread in the same bag...It is better to let bags empty and try to understand each other on INDIVIDUAL terms....

There is not ONLY " drivel in this thread", sorry....The only reason why someone can say this is because he does not know what a mirror was created for...Not to admire our own face but to look in our eyes what we cannot see in the eyes of others...The beam and the straw...

i have never see or read an entire thread constituted by dodderers or drools only.. there is different people NEVER only dodderers ...I prefer to speak to ONE individual and not declared all people in a thread only dodderers ....

The only dodderers are those who confuse their map with reality...

Listening to others perspective and discussing sincerely is important, discussing with pugnacious quality is OK if we treat each other well... ...

I apologize but i feel that i had to say that...

@nonoise did you finally get that Technics SU700M2.....? what ever it is?

I agree this thread is all pugnacious gas

 I'm so glad that I've been listening to my new integrated break in on it's first day than to read the drivel in this thread. You guys should get into some hobby, like audio.