Grounding cable gauge size

But users report that the ground wire is perhaps even more significant than the grounding box.

interesting - what type of construction are they?

gavman,

Thank you. As I stated early on in this thread, I still cannot understand what makes the grounding wires so expensive. I am using mostly solid .9999 silver 16-18 ga wire on my DIY boxes, but I do have 2 sets of the Entreq Atlantis cables on the Entreq box. And they are better than my solid silver wires. At least on the Entreq box.

ozzy

So if you had a cathodic metal like silver on the outside of the box the voltage would want to flow back out if the inside had aluminum plates in a conductive medium inside. So this does not make sense from a galvanic circuit. 

Can't we just cut somebody's Entreq in two and we'll have our answers!

I have seen the insides of some of the Entreq units and it mostly looks like the insides of my DIY version. Only mine looks better...

ozzy

interesting - what type of construction are they?

Physically massive. Material varies from cable to cable. Some copper, some silver

From Tripoint’s home page, scroll down to subsection grounding cables, you can see the different materials used in respective cables

https://tripointaudio.us/tripoint-products

Dalby Celestial

https://us.v-cdn.net/5022769/uploads/simplestforum/12015_photo.jpg

Lee keeps his exact recipe close to his chest, much like Per Oloff of Entreq☺

This is from the Tripoint page. It refers to the one above entry level, out of four.

SIGNATURE SILVER: Pure silver cable with Oyaide spades. Signature Silver Sonic Signature: quiet, silky smooth high frequencies.

Can i pick up on something jerrybj said?

Have a Signal Ground Solution SG1 grounding box from Andrew in Scotland.

Have two of his copper grounding cables, reasonably priced.

Waiting on a Silent Point grounding box I’ve ordered.

So, having linked to some truly weapons grade audio porn and undoubted jewellery, In the interests of price balance, to say the least in full disclosure, i must say that the dealer who sold me my Tripoint is now concentrating on the SGS product range. He feels they get most of the way there, for a fraction the cost of Tripoint

Review here

https://www.monoandstereo.com/2021/10/signal-ground-solutions-sgs-1-signature.html

Manufacturer’s website, they give some details about construction of boxes and grounding cable

https://signalgroundsolutions.com/

I tried the SGS and it did not work as well as my DIY or the Entreq. At least in my system.

ozzy

it might be worth trying placing a long piece of crystalline/rock tourmaline adjacent to the cable at the entry point with the grain structure aligned parallel with the cable. Not saying it will work, but worth a try and not that expensive in the grand scheme. Might also be the place to try a Bybee signal enhancer or SR tuning disc

would be interested to her the results if anybody tries it

Fascinating. 

Which model was it?

I'm interested in the Puritan Audio Labs - The Ground Master but it's impossible for me to have an additional Ground Rod as I'm on level 6 of a 35 story apartment complex.

Somehow I'd like to have a one way system so any noise in the building's ground can't contaminate my system.

Any ideas?

pedroeb:

I think your situation is exactly what these boxes are for.

Ozzy, the Entreqs did not have plates in them? I assumed, as they state, a battery-looking device that collects voltage in reverse of how a battery with cathode and anode plates works.

I would say my boxes should be reworked with a more conductive media like graphene or powdered carbon.

Puritan has a model designed specifically for apartments that doesn't have an external grounding rod.

bugredmachine,

Also add some Shungite.

ozzy

gavman,

Zebrano Signature.

ozzy

twoleftears,

I would like to try some king of AC grounding devices, but without the need for a grounding rod.

ozzy

Thank you ozzy

Normally the AC ground tip that causes the noise in your systems as it creates circulating ground current in the circuits. Get an AC adapter with no ground plug or take you're Plyers and remove the command ground end of the connector.

Connecting all the chassis to ground will lead to and increase to noise besides most new components don't have a chassis ground connector, those days have passed. The connect all the chassis grounds is to a star from each chassis. So each components will have a sperate ground run to bus bar or star point. When connecting an earth ground the rod must be buried 6 to 10 feet. There is a piece of gear that will measure when the ground is at earth potential, it's called a Megger. Different soil types make a different where there is earth potential.

On Telecom systems the chassis ground or connect to a large copper bar normally 16 to 12 AWG.  This ground needs to be a very low impedance or it may cause noise. Of course the main purpose is from voltage surge and Lighting strike. The ground systems can fail to protect with out other protection devices.

Jim 

Shungite - check.

Where can you get pounds of graphene or carbon, not grams?

I'm wondering if the high conductivity of silver is the real need in the cables due to the low levels of the signals (noise). Certainly low current and low voltage but losses along the wire will not help it escape, so to speak.

https://verdantaudio.com/products/puritan-groundmaster-city

https://verdantaudio.com/products/puritan-routemaster?_pos=2&_sid=773dddd5d&_ss=r

twoleftears,

On the Puritan City, what does the green wire connect up to? Chassis ground, Entreq boxes?

ozzy

bugredmachine,

You can get Carbon at the tropical fish store look for activated pure carbon. The Graphene and Graphene oxide was purchased via Ebay. Most of the other items can be purchased on Amazon.

ozzy

jew16384,

Thank you for your post but I'm sorry, I don't understand.

ozzy

The green wire is meant to connect to the Puritan unit when using a Groundmaster. It takes all the power grounds out to the earth rod.

On the city version I think it connects to the Puritan and then to a duplex via its ground connection. So, almost "earth ground", but more the electrical ground in the dwelling.

I see you guys built your boxes like I did except we used different conductive media. I think I am going to try the reverse battery arrangement and lead in with plates like copper or stainless that are isolated from the rest of the box. Then I will put aluminum plates that do not touch the copper plates but use the conductive media to make the "circuit". It will take me a few weeks to do this. It will also be messy since the powder will be messy to reuse if this is a failure.

@pedroeb

You could try

Plug In RF Router UK | System Grounding | Russ Andrews Accessories Ltd

There is also a European version.

More reading on grounding

Layout 1 (russandrews.com)

I have met the owner of Puritan ( Mike ) many times really nice guy and honest, great products.

In UK, the "plug in" version does not seem to be supplied so why I have posted a link to Russ Andrews who make other products.

I tried an earth wire 10 mm one wire connected to a Power supply for a DAC then in to a ground rod as an experiment FOR A FEW MINUTES ONLY.

DO NOT CONEECT ANY OF your equipment to a ground rod without a RF router of some type.

Grounding - Safety Fundamentals (1hr:13min:19sec) - YouTube

Moving on.

Grounding my system with one wire via a ground rod as above made a pleasant surprise, bass improved and treble less harsh so went all in for a full blown system with 2 x 3 meter ground rods 21 metres apart with 16 mm earth cable.

One rod measured 18 ohms two rods 10 ohms.

PeakTech 2700 - Digital Earth Resistance Tester, Dual Illumination LCD Display and 2 Earth Rods, Earth Resistance, AC/DC, TÜV/GS, Data Hold, Auto Power Off, Automatic Zero Adjustment - Cat III 1000 V : Amazon.co.uk: Business, Industry & Science

I must admit there was not much more improvement with the full blown version that ended up being quite expensive various cables and all equipment connected.

My advice is try a ground rod with one wire before you purchase a RF Router.

Hope the above helps......

@ozzy The plug going into the socket provides the ground.  The green wire connects the unit to the Routemaster, which provides a number of connections for grounding all of the components in the system (see photo with different terminations of those other green wires).

twoleftears,

So, the Groundmaster City costs $250 and cannot be used without the other device the Routemaster that costs $700. Is that correct? Why not sell them as a set?

It also seems that it should be able to be plugged into a Entreq that has 4 connections.

ozzy

Just talked to a rep from Puritan. He advised against using the Puritan Grandmaster City version to connect up to my Entreq.

ozzy

@ozzy or anyone else experimenting with ground boxes.  Have you been able to confirm whether or not you gain SQ improvement by:

- using silver wire vs. copper

- solid wire vs stranded

- different gauge size

- cable lengths matter

- connector end metal types or just nude

I tried using nps 1260 and didn’t distinguish any additional improvement. Thanks

I believe solid silver works the best 16-18 gauge.

ozzy

I ordered a Russ Andrews RF Router MKII for my signal grounds going to separate ground rod.

BTW, the Groundmaster is potted so you cannot decipher its guts other than the faint outline of caps in the potting.

Interesting reading on grounding boxes.

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/grounding-boxes.31401/page-5#post-784143

rsf507,

Thank you for that attachment. I am a member of that Forum. There is noise riding on the grounds within our system.

Signal, chassis etc. grounding is still a very unknown area at this point, at least to me, this needs to be investigated further.

ozzy

Man i am just in awe of those like ozzy and bugredmachine who are building their own grounding kit. 

Whenever i try to explain to a non audiophile what's this box is that I've blown all my money on, it's not long before I'm using words like 'witchcraft'

gavman,

You should never try to explain this hobby to someone outside of the audiophile community. You will be branded as a nut who spends money foolishly on stupid things. I remember in the old days when I tried to talk to the regulars about my stereo, they would immediately bring up there Bose stereo...

And NEVER try to convince an EE about the electrical benefits of the power cords etc...

ozzy

The best explanation you can give is a demo. So make it a good one.

I've got ingredients on the way to make one box. One lousy box. I will have to find some sources for 5 gallon buckets of minerals to build 4 or 5 more if these work out. Of course with all the Russia stuff going on, I don't dare try and buy large quantities of Shungite from there at much better prices than the health outfits who sell it at a premium in small quantities.

I'm going to set up my box with a possible drain out the back side that I could additionally take to ground. That is why I ordered the Russ Andrews unit to see how his circuit functions compared to the Groundmaster.

I plan to use silver wire going into copper plates inside as they are on the same end of the galvanic scale. Then I am planning to use aluminum plates on the other end of the scale to create the "pull" across the conductive media.

@bugredmachine if you don’t mind share pics and ingredient list if it works out for you.  I am planning to build a third box twice the size of my current two DIY boxes.  Intrigued by the “pull” construction.  Each speaker will have its own small box and the large box will be connected to the conditioner and wall outlet. Also, I am thinking about acquiring the Russ Andrews box to compare. Let us know how you like his box.  Thanks

Sure, once I have something worth trying. I will be using MDF for the box so I can open it up and re-configure if needed.

The Andrews box should be here this week.

A stone version makes for solid grounding.

That's a load of Blarney😁

Perhaps that was the point.

@holmz - Talking with one of the locals in Ireland, the local lads after getting lubricated at the pub, used to go up and pee all over that stone. Of course, I was told after I'd kissed the damned thing myself.

I'm going to try one wide and one tall. Planning to stand them up to save floor space. Some progress on these prototype boxes.

@rixthetrick 

Talking with one of the locals in Ireland, the local lads after getting lubricated at the pub, used to go up and pee all over that stone. Of course, I was told after I'd kissed the damned thing myself.

The electrolytes improve the conductivity, so it grounds better ;)

(It also reminds we on the joke of Shamus and the other fellow, getting free drink in London.)

bugredmachine,

Nice pictures. I still haven't been able to figure out how to post pictures. For now though, I have posted pictures on my systems page of my DIY grounding box.

ozzy