Grounding cable gauge size

What is the gravitational pull on an electron?

And magnets are not currently known to affect gravity.

Some of the crystals might be dielectrics like the quartz,
And I could imagine foil sheets with dielectrics starting to look like a capacitor tied to the ground… But it would be floating.
??

Within my DIY ground box, I also add many other ores that possess metallic properties. My theory is that the magnetic mat will add the gravitational pull.

It is just my idea, it may or may not provide additional benefits, that’s why I suggested adding it to the exterior bottom of the box.

ozzy

The reason I recommended the magnet mat at the bottom of the ingredients is to simulate the earth's natural magnetic pull.

There is already a magnetic field associated with the Earth..

What does the field do to help? How does that work?

drpie,

The reason I recommended the magnet mat at the bottom of the ingredients is to simulate the earth's natural magnetic pull.

I suppose if you are unsure, you can try it on the outside bottom of the box.

ozzy

I made order of components for DIY Ground Boxes. I would like to see comments from experienced users. 

Maybe something is superfluous or missing?

Not sure about using a magnetic mat. Has anyone tested its effect?

…

Oak box 6,6"x8,5"x4,6"

Entreq Slim Tungsten Feets

Viborg BP614R Cu(R) binding post

Silver Wire 4N 10AWG 

Copper Tape OFC 3N 

Copper Foil OFC 3N

Tungsten Foil 3N 

Application Stabilant with Graphene Powder

     Filling Diamagnetics, Piezo- and Pyroelectrics:

83% Schungite

10% Tourmaline

5% Rochelle salt 

3% Clear and Smoky Quartz

    Filling Mix Dia-, Para- and Ferromagnetics:

Copper 5N Cu OFC Granules 

Silver 4N, Copper 5N, Tungsten, Brass, Al, Mg, Fe and Steel Powder

tksteingraber,

Ok, I would call that signal grounding. I have mine routed to my Entreq/DIY units.

I am using the Russ Andrews device to the chassis of my Lumin X1 power supply and the chassis of my JL CR-1 crossover.

But whatever way improves the sound...

ozzy

@ozzy not chassis grounded.  I have my amp, DAC, CD, blue ray player, sat Dish receiver and sub connected directly into components open RCA plugs to the RF Router double side posts (2 banana, 4 spade) The single post on the RF Router Is connected by spade to a wall power plug rewired with all 3 wires to the ground only and plugged into an outlet using the house ground wiring.  Not how Russ recommends but it’s working well for me.

tksteingraber,

Are you using it as chassis grounding?

ozzy

Been using my Russ Andrews RF Router MK III for a couple months now on my second system/Home Theatre system.   Very happy with the improvement it has made in SQ.  Heck of a value to performance item. Will have give it a go on my main system which has ground boxes and nice power conditioners to see if can make an additional improvement. I haven’t been able distinguish a difference in wire types. Using  DIY OCC 8TC Kimber Kable Chinese copy.

jaymark,

Is the Gutwire just a wire connected to a AC ground? Or is there something else going on inside the cable?

ozzy

pedroeb,

What grounding device are you using?

ozzy

jaymark
 

I just picked up a Gutwire grounding cable and plugged it into one of the open RCA inputs and plugged it into the electrical socket.  I was nearly stunned at the increased clarity, focus and nuanced detail this brought to my system.  This was one helluva upgrade that did not cost an arm and a leg.

I fully agree. A no brainer everyone should try for themselves.

I'm using a grounding router with a separate grounding wire to every piece of equipment.

I went even further and grounded the tv stand and every speaker driver (frames and magnets).. Considering the movement within every speaker it's not unexpected the improvement is as great as earthing equipment.

All I can say is well worth the effort. If there's no improvement, I'd be most surprised.

I just picked up a Gutwire grounding cable and plugged it into one of the open RCA inputs and plugged it into the electrical socket.  I was nearly stunned at the increased clarity, focus and nuanced detail this brought to my system.  This was one helluva upgrade that did not cost an arm and a leg.

tecknik,

Well I am still experimenting. I have removed the Russ Andrews ground lead to my Niagara 7000. I think the Niagara does more ground clean up by itself.

So, today I have the Russ Andrews unit leads to the chassis of my Lumin X1 power supply and the JL Audio CR-1.

I am still running separate signal grounds from the rca’s on the equipment to my Entreq/ DIY grounding boxes.

ozzy

How’s it sounding now ozzy, noise floor down 2 or 3 db, better bass with more air and definition.

teck

Yesterday, I disconnected the Russ Andrews unit from the Entreq. I feel the music sounds better with the Russ Andrews unit connected to just my chassis ground. ie; Lumin X1 ground terminal and the AC ground into my Niagara 7000.

ozzy

tksteingraber,

I have my Entreq Silver Tellus connected to the (source) RCA’s to my Lumin X1 and JL CR-1 Crossover. No preamp is used.

The Entreq then is also connected to my very large DIY ground box (pictures on my systems page) which also connects my subs and amps via banana’s

The Russ Andrews unit is connected to my:

1. Niagara 7000 to a DIY AC plug (with just the ground connected).
2. Connected to my Entreq via Banana
3. Connected to my Lumin X1 chassis ground terminal on the separate power supply.

My speakers are connected to a couple of my DIY ground box(s) for speakers.

ozzy

@ozzy thanks for the update.  I have a rf router box on order.  Can you provide more detail on how you have it wired to each component/ground box? Is your 7000 only connected to the router wall plug no ground boxes.  Are your speakers connected to the wall plug?  Thanks

So to those who care, I have now found that using the Russ Andres device with my Entreq box seems to be the way to go. I am liking the increased depth of the soundstage.

I am also running it to my Niagara 7000 to the AC ground only.

ozzy

So I finally received the Russ Andrew Plug In Router. It was held up in customs for a week.

Anyway, I just connected it to chassis grounds, and then tried it to source grounding and finally to my Entreq box and DIY version.

At this point (about a few hours) I can say it does nothing.

ozzy

@bugredmachine how do you like your Russ Andrews router?  I was thinking of ordering one as well and wanted to get some input.  Or anyone else who has one…

I just ordered a Russ Andrews plug in router. Thanks to those who mentioned it. There is a sale going on, I got it at 25% off. Not sure how long it will take to receive but I will have 60 days to evaluate it.

I’m going to try it in all areas including into my DIY grounding box, Entreq box and maybe just some chassis grounding.

ozzy

But it makes me wonder if I should have included some Tungsten to my DIY box(es)

ozzy

If you listen to heavy metal, then… yes... It would likely help.

I recently purchased a Peak 4 made by Entreq. It screws on in place of the wooden lug holders on my Entreq Silver Tellus box. It is said to contain 5 different metals including Tungsten.

It does add clarity to the already great sound I have achieved. I can’t try it on my DIY version though due to the specific thread size.

But it makes me wonder if I should have included some Tungsten to my DIY box(es)

ozzy

Fun project…Thought I would share my findings after several weeks of using and adjusting my 3 DIY ground boxes.  Now obviously each system and home electrical grid is different and will experience different results. My system is not super revealing high end and  I am blown away at what a little build effort, small investment and how experimenting with materials can make such an impact on sound quality.  Dead silence for a tube amp and tube DAC.  Clarity, separation of instruments,  depth of soundstage, bass definition all improved significantly.  Who would of thought you could get these results?  I built 2 6x6x6 each one is connected independently to a speaker negative banana. The larger 12x7x6  has one banana connected to my power condtioner chassis ground that all components are plugged into while the second banana is connected to the wall outlet ground only. Below is a list of building materials.  I kept the fill ingredients to a minimum which worked fine for me.  Lastly, my findings were using solid copper plates vs aluminum plates didn’t seem to make a difference, 11ga stranded ofc copper sounded better than stranded silver or 16ga solid silver (slightly fuller, richer, warmer sound to me), doubling the size of the box made a noticeable difference on the power conditioner. Sound improves with use as there seems to be a break in period.  Pics are on my system page.

Ground Box 6”x6” (2)

-  Made of scrape melamine covered in contact paper

- Copper plates, copper tape,  banana plug, bare solid copper ground wire, 

   11ga stranded copper speaker wire 

-  50 g Tourmaline fine stones

-  225g raw Tourmaline stones

-  50/50 volume mix of rock salt (4 lbs) and horticulture charcoal (2qt)  Connected one box to each speaker neg posts

Large Ground Box 12”x7”x6”

- Same as above with these additions

- 2 banana plugs

- Copper color aluminum plates (work as well as the copper and easier

   to cut and shape)

- 500 grams of natural tourmaline

- rock salt (8lbs), horticulture charcoal (4qts), graphite powder (2lbs),

   sand(quartz) (2lbs)

Connected large box to power conditioner chassis ground with power

    cord cable ground only connected to spade plug with hot, neutral 

    and ground wires twisted together.

Agree with ozzy the boxes should be treated like any component regarding footers and proper shelf.

bugremachine,

The pictures made your boxes much larger than I thought they were. My DIYer is about 18" x 24" x 8".

Also, when you are completed try some brass spikes underneath.

ozzy

One is about 8x8x4. The other I thought I would experiment with longer and fewer runs of metal. It is closer to 15x7x4. The metal strips are all 2 inches and the MDF is 1/2", hence the 4 inch box depth. I was trying to have a greater amount of copper versus aluminum but not by much in the end.

I was not sure on running through the box as dead-heading is safer and avoids any ground loops. But I put it in out of curiosity and perhaps running to ground might add some performance. But if it does, why not just use a filter network instead of box full of dirt and minerals?

Nice…thanks for sharing design pics.  What are your box dimensions?  So just trying to understand the battery like set up.  Would your box be connected to a component on the copper banana so the aluminum draws the noise through the mix and then out the aluminum banana to the ground rod or duplex plug similar to a battery draw?  Keep us posted on results.  Looks intriguing! 

Well done bugredmachine, looking forward to your review once hooked up for a few days. 

Getting there. I still have to make the silver cables to complete this project and take it for a spin. It's been very difficult to find the time to get this completed.

The insides of my boxes are like battery plates. I made a "square" and a "tall" unit. I have silver plated (presumably silver) connections and I also put an "output" jack as well. Copper sheet and aluminum sheet with a conductive media.

I suppose places like airplanes and the international space station (ISS) need to carry boxes of dirt in order to have a ground?

And 25 milliamps

Puling 136 millivolts

One unit screwed together

EMI absorber sheet:

Filling the boxes

Mixing bucket

I borrowed ingredients from you folks and decided to mix them with potting soil. I looked at topsoil, but it is filled with sticks and twigs. Once you mix in the shungite, magnesium, carbon, and copper chop, it takes on a much different consistency. I also packed it into the spaces and then I laid a piece of EMI absorbing sheet inside each cover before attaching.

Getting there. I still have to make the silver cables to complete this project and take it for a spin. It's been very difficult to find the time to get this completed.

The insides of my boxes are like battery plates. I made a "square" and a "tall" unit. I have silver plated (presumably silver) connections and I also put an "output" jack as well. Copper sheet and aluminum sheet with a conductive media.

tksteingraber,

Russ Andrews had no answer.

ozzy

@bugredmachine in checking my DAC’ s ground wiring it’s IEC ground is connected to a chassis connection and from there a ground wire connects to circuit board.  No direct wires from the chassis ground to RCA or XLR’s. Is this considered a signal ground similar to your DAC?  Thanks again.

Good question. I'll ask that from Russ Andrews website

ozzy

How about connecting the RA Router MkII box to a large ground box instead of connecting to a ground rod and avoid plugging onto an outlet?

The Bricasti dac I use does not connect the outer shell of the RCA's and XLR's to the power ground pin on the power cable. So they are only signal grounds.

On my amp, the case, XLR's and power input ground pin are all the same, so there is no chance of having a signal-only "ground" unless my device is a dead end box with magic crystals and does not connect to ground.

Ozzy, have you put your ohmmeter across the rca's of your sub and the power pin of the iec for the power cable? If there is a short, then the RCA's are connected to ground via the power cable. In that case, trying to connect the grounding box to a outlet ground would create a loop.

Some day I would love to try these Grounding cables out! (Scroll down to the bottom of the page to see info on their new "Ghost" Grounding cables. 

Grounding cable “Ghost” 1,5 m - 4 750 Euro

We do customize your grounding cables according yours specific needs, all sort of connectors are available.

Yes I do use their PSD and find it to be absolutely stunning in performance.

(Dealer disclosure) 

bugredmachine,

I am connecting only to the speaker banana/spades on my amps and the rca’s on my subs.

However, I do not think the Carver amps have a separate (3rd wire) ground on the AC line.

ozzy

@bugredmachine could explain what a non A/C ground would look like connection wise on a component?  Would that only apply to two prong components?  Thanks
 

Fyi - I contacted RA to see if the RF Router Plug-in and the RF Router MkII box performed the same if you plugged the MkII in the wall and not connect it to a grounding rod.  They said the two would perform exactly the same.  Seems to me the MkII offers future flexibility and would take up less plug space.  

It is essentially a Groundmaster. I wanted one to have a filter before my second earth rod (and to give his a try) for my signal grounds

So, are your amps and subs signal negatives for sure not chassis?.

bugredmachine,

I have 4 separate grounding boxes. One for my amps and subwoofers. One for my digital and 2 smaller ones for my speakers. They are all connected via the ground side on a rca/banana. None are connected directly to chassis or to ac ground.

So how would I use the Russ Andrews plug in device?

ozzy