Grimm MU1 Streamer - Really "The Best"?

@lordmelton thank you for that. Were you using their clock too?
https://www.mutec-net.com/product_ref_10.php#description

if this was connected to their dac at the same time, then I could see the performance jump. There is a list on the link above which say it’s not applicable to the N20, not doubting you, just find it intriguing…

Steve

@nyev A masterclock setup can be bought for $5-6k.

My DAC, Musetec 005, only cost $3k and I’m extremely happy and content with it, I’ve compared it with many much more expensive DACs.

@lalitk ’s system is SOTA using the Ravenna network and I think that’s probably something we all should eventually aim at.

My system sounds great because I have a world class pre-amp, the Viola Sonata and Dragon power cables among others.

@rockrider I have never heard the Aurender MC20 but at around $25/30k I cannot see the value.

A masterclock is based around a tiny piece of rubidium no bigger than a grain of rice.

There are also cesium and satellite synchronized masterclocks but I don't see any value in the MC20.

@sc2 

Does the master clock affect the usb output? I would not think so…

Well according to Aurender it doesn't, but in practice it does, I only use USB output.

Aurender also specifies the AES/SPDIF outputs are best, but USB has always been better for me with several DACs..........go figure.

Just doing rough math, it feels like you could spend about $10k on a master clock setup, if you consider adding a decent clock cable and a premium power cable.

Given there are so many paths to reach our audiophile objectives, I’ve often mused (there I go with my musings @lordmelton ! Sorry for the pain… ) on each upgrade, in terms of the degree of sonic improvement per dollar spent. Like when I tested Valhalla 2 USB cables once, they sounded a fair bit better. But, for the amount of money, I realized I could get way more benefit putting that money elsewhere.

So, my question is, would $10k for a semi-premium master clock setup take you further than, say, putting that cash into a $20k DAC instead of a $10k DAC, or, a Statement Next-Gen or even a Taiko? Probably an impossible question to answer, but I’m wondering how the whole Masterclock concept stacks up in terms of sonic benefit per dollar spent, at least at a general level, vs putting that money elsewhere.

I find it’s often a worthwhile question to ask when upgrading:  For a set amount of cash, what upgrade would result in the biggest benefit?

@lalitk 

Thanks for your response!

@sc2 

In my research on this subject, I’ve found the Aurender manual for their MC20 Clock to be very informative.
 

Section 7.2 contains the statement:

”In order for MC20 to have maximum efficacy, use a SPDIF or AES/EBU connection between your Aurender and DAC instead of USB. Due to the nature of asynchronous USB, where the DAC's clock (or an external clock that is synced with the DAC) controls the data flow, clock input signal on any Aurender source has no impact on the signal path of USB audio connections.”

But all the reading can’t take the place of direct experience, so I greatly appreciate the hands on experiences of everyone here.

@rockrider

Sorry for late reply. I am using Merging Technologies +clock which not only designed to synchronize RAVENNA network (exclusive to my Network Attached DAC), it also provides automatic sample rate switching, two 10MHz synchronous outputs, one of those 10MHz being used for N20 and a set of four Word Clock outputs. Even if your DAC does not have a clock input, synchronizing Aurender transport like N20 with an external clock further yielded a more coherent presentation.

My ‘Digital’ system is listed under my username for you to checkout my system setup. You can read further on this amazing and versatile clock here,

Does the master clock affect the usb output? I would not think so…

Steve

@lordmelton 

Thank you!

@rockrider A N20 needs a 75 Ohm Masterclock. Word Clocks are vastly inferior because you have to change the frequency settings everytime you change from 44.1/192 Khz etc. Masterclock is plug and play.

Sine wave is best, connecting simultaneously to a DAC will have little effect, if any.

However connecting the clock to ethernet devices and reclockers etc., should give good results. The most important issue is enabling masterclock control of the N20's internal clock, which will benefit tremendously from more accurate timing.

A quality LPS is essential together with a real clock cable, not a 75 Ohm SPDIF cable. Clock cable can cost around $2k per meter, one meter or less is best.

You can buy an After Dark or Cybershaft clock for $1k or more.

@lalitk uses a much more sophisticated (and expensive) setup, but what I've explained here will give excellent results.

@lalitk ​​​​@lordmelton 

Could you please detail the Masterclocks used for the N20, and how you set them up in your system?

I’m honestly confused about Master clock vs word clock, 10 MHz vs 44.1x/48x, SPDIF Sync, Sine wave vs Square wave, etc. 

Does the DAC also need to be connected to the same clock to hear the revelation?

Thanks in advance!

“You are running a three legged horse if you don't get a Masterclock for the N20. 

I couldn’t agree more with @lordmelton. And this just doesn’t apply to N20, any component with external clock input should be explored to truly understand and experience that ‘next level’ realm. Listening to N20 with an external clock was nothing short of a revelation, so much so that I’m now gearing up for a head to head audition of W20SE vs N30SA. 

@lordmelton thanks for the tips! :)

It's been quite painful reading your almost daily musings, but like a blind squirrel, I guess you'll eventually find a nut.

There are many things that are non-negotiable if you want the best SQ and those things include:

Use SR Purple fuses or better in all your gear.

Disable the +ve wire in your USB cable. I know you don't want to get it sticky..lol

You are running a three legged horse if you don't get a Masterclock for the N20. I know you only want one box...tough

Plug your 300W amp into the wall.

Use a Hurricane to feed the Torus and a Dragon to feed the N20 / Innous

Glad to see you're getting a separate DAC

Please don't reply just try these things and you will see they all work.

@arafiq , interesting. Still planning to try the purple fuse - will order this week.

Yes I’ve heard that for some the PhoenixUSB doesn’t add much. The fact that the PhoenixUSB does actually help I suppose implies that the Diablo DAC module is lesser than the DACs where the PhoenixUSB makes no difference. Not sure if this is the right way to think about it, but I’ve seen that argument in forums before. And I’ve seen some people claim it also helps when paired with some of the Uber-DACs.

I would really love it if the Grimm does everything and just a bit more, in one box, with my Diablo DAC module. If it did, I’d be tempted to stop there. But because of this thread, I’ve promised myself just to try a stand-alone DAC. I know know a lot more about my Innuos setup thanks to the N20. Likewise, trying against another DAC would offer insight into my Diablo 300 DAC module.

Back to the Grimm, my fear (too strong of a word) is that the AES interface won’t perform well with my Diablo DAC module. Or at least not as well as it should. The reason being, that there was really zero difference between the Aurender N20’s USB and AES interfaces when they should really have sounded different. Something seems funny there, and leads me to wonder if it’s the Diablo DAC’s AES interface that is limiting things.

I was actually all set to purchase the PhoenixUSB but another audiogon member advised me to get the SR Purple fuse instead. He had tried the PhoenixUSB and didn't think it added much. So he sold it and bought the Purple fuse instead. Having said that, these things are so system dependent. It might have worked wonders in my system but I was quite happy with the Zenith + SR Purple fuse + Network Acoustics Eno filter trio, so never thought of buying the Phoenix.

BTW, I still maintain that the DAC module in your Gryphon is top class. I think you will have to get something at least $10K or more to better it. Just my opinion based on hearing the Gryphon Diablo 300 a couple of years ago.

I should mention I agree that the Innuos gear, with or without the PhoenixUSB, is not a sound I would consider to be organic leaning.  But, it’s certainly not analytical or dry either.   Again, the DAC used can obviously change all of this; my comparison and reference point is a different server (the N20) connected to the same DAC (Gryphon Diablo module).

Thanks @arafiq, very interesting.  I don’t know about the Zeno filter but have you every tried the Zenith with the PhoenixUSB?  It’s really an entirely different experience than the Zenith on its own.  Depending on the DAC used of course.

@nyev Thanks for sharing. At the end of the day, we have to stick with what sounds best to our ears. I recently had a similar epiphany. I was quite happy with the Innuos Zenith MK3. The addition of SR purple fuse and Eno filter really took the performance to the next level. By sheer luck, I stumbled upon a rather unknown streamer, and to my surprise it really checked all the boxes for me. I ended up selling my Zenith and bought the Aavik S-280 streamer after auditioning it in my home for two weeks. It was a tough decision since the Aavik doesn't do DSD and I have a fairly decent-sized collection of DSD downloads. In the end, the Aavik just spoke to me in a way that no other streamer has. It has similar levels of clarity, air, and transparency as the Zenith, but to my ears it brings that extra bit of heft and organic quality that was sometimes missing in the Zenith. The streamer just added that special sauce that I never knew was missing. I'm glad I took the road less travelled and found something I really love.

I'm looking forward to hearing your impressions of MU1. 

So what I think I’m not too bad at is analyzing exactly what I hear with gear. My initial analysis tends to remain even after living with gear for a very long time. My current assessment of the characteristics of the N20 have not changed one bit since my original assessment.

What has changed, however, is how I feel about those characteristics. This is the area where I struggle, as time changes how I feel.

For the first time in a while, I switched back to my Innuos gear and listened all day while working.  And I loved it. It was like the transparency, dimensionality, and air, and life was injected back into the music. I know it seems fickle and just a few posts back I said I was down on Innuos. Just please do yourself a favour and ignore any statements I make about what I like or dislike as I obviously can’t even trust myself with that. Paying attention to how I describe sound is totally okay though - I believe everything I stated in terms of sonic characteristics is totally still valid!

One note I should make - going back to Innuos I tried leaving my speakers at their toed in position that was needed for the Aurender N20 to have a solid image. It’s possible I got carried away with the positioning with Innuos before, and had the speakers toed out too much to boost the image width and crispness. But now, it sounds pretty awesome. Am also appreciating the BIG bass with more clarity and dimensionality. I also have left my DAC filter setting on “Fast” instead of the “Slow” default setting.

I think this is an example of, one server solution is not better than the other; they are simply different. I am glad to have experienced the N20 as before that, I really didn’t know what my Innuos setup added to my system. Now I know! Once I get a different DAC in house I will give the N20 another shot. I’m in talks with a dealer that may be able to set me up with a demo of the Merason DAC1, recommend by @ghasley and seemingly highly recommended by almost everyone who has heard it. The Mk1 version costs 40% less than my Gryphon DAC module, but as we know high cost doesn’t mean better sound. Still waiting patiently for the MU1 to arrive. Wondering if that will be better, or just different!

I will aspire to be a better audiophile. By honing my ability to detect what is truly “better” to my ears, as opposed to merely “different”. A good lesson.

@ghasley I would not consider this official but my dealer told me the price of the MU1 was going up by $3,000. I was wondering if anyone else had heard this to corroborate what I was told.

It’s funny, in most threads I’ve read on the MU1, there is the eventual comparison of its internals vs others.  I’m surprised it took this long on this thread.  It certainly doesn’t look as sexy as the others inside, that’s for sure! But it is far more technically advanced than its somewhat crude looking internals imply. But all that doesn’t matter anyways, to me it’s just an interesting side-note to the sound. Looking forward to trying mine!

@metaldetektor interesting analysis on DAC pairings with MU1; thanks. Interesting you found the NOS DACs to be ideal, because to me that just logically makes sense as the upsampling is just moved to the MU1. Which raises the question for me at least - is it more advantageous to do upsampling in the network player, as in the MU1, or is it better to do it in the DAC? Or does it matter?

@nyev of you want a touch more transparency from the n20 my suggestion is to try the furutech ncf gtx(r) outlet with a good upocc silver powercord with furutech nfc plugs on the n20 such as the zenwave psr14. Dave at zenwave will loan your for free email him.

On the topic of Grimm and DAC pairings…pairing the Grimm with an nos R2R makes for a radically different (and in my mind more natural and engaging) sound. Grimm and totaldac? Home run.

I would not however be scared to pair the Grimm with DACs that do their own sampling or DSD conversion. Grimm and Tambaqui? Fantastic. Grimm and Meitner? Also fantastic (although less of a delta here vs the onboard Meitner renderer which is quite good, as compared with the Tambaqui, which has a so-so internal Ethernet renderer). As always, I speak from direct experience in my own system and not internet screenshots of what parts are under the hood. That said, YMMV.

The theory behind the above, according to Grimm, is that they think their precise clocking and sampling does the heavy lifting, making any digital sampling/conversion done by the DAC more straightforward and therefore less prone to error. That’s just their theory, but I’ve heard it in (my) practice as well.

@sns 

I owned an Innuos Zenith, I demo’d an Aurender (w20) and purchased the Grimm. Everyone should demo multiple streamers and buy what sounds best to them. In the event it is a tossup between two or more, then I guess the tiebreaker for someone could be parts count or weight? Are fewer parts or lower weight considered better or worse?

SMPS does seem like it is gaining some traction as a preferred power supply source. I've never heard it in a SOTA configuration, but would like to. You also mention Charles, that Grimm has written all their own code from the ground up. From all I've read, optimized code is one of the big influencers behind top-quality sound. Taiko is current working on XDMS, their proprietary streaming software, and by all accounts of many users on WBF, it has had a very significant impact on sound quality for their Extreme server. These are interesting times for sure.

@sns 

Grimm chose to go in the direction of SMPS as the preferred power supply option. For the record, Antipodes has followed suit with their flagship Olandra music server. SMPS rather than linear power supply as found in their K50 server.

“Powered by a twin-PCB switching power supply developed in-house to provide the lowest possible jitter values, the MU1’s core is shaped by a NUC board that runs Linux and the Roon Core server component. Importantly, Grimm does not just rely on standard Linux or Roon packages. Refusing to use standard libraries, the Grimm team wrote their own code from the ground up. This is where the MU1 differs from other music servers and likely an important reason for why it sounds so superb”

From the Hi-Fi Advice review.

Charles

Ok, I have this observation in regard to MU1, look at this internal photo of Grimm, https://6moons.com/audioreview_articles/grimm/2/. Now compare this to N20,https://www.aurenderamerica.com/products/n20 Aurender looks far more substantive to me, power supply alone seems much substantial.

Now, as far as impact on sound quality, I can only speculate without hearing, but when it comes to choosing equipment for purchase I rely on internal photos in part. I'd be more likely to purchase N20 vs Grimm in this case.

@fastfreight 

the MU2 is interesting.  I had not heard it was a joint venture with Mola Mola…but since I own the Tambaqui already, here we go.

The above comment is an unsubstantiated rumor that I posted earlier in the thread. I have nothing official or unofficial…its just a rumor that Elvis shared with me before he left the building LOL.

Congrats! Look forward to your impressions. By the way, I am currently demoing a Network Acoustics Muon AES cable. It has some tough competition as I am presently using a Shunyata Sigma V2 AES/EBU cable.

@nyev what is the new retail price of the MU1?

congrats @fastfreight!  You should have a sort of preview of the MU2 if the rumour is true!  But I’m not holding my breath….

I was told by my dealer that the price is going up for the MU1.  He said there was an influx of orders to get in at the old price….  Slightly longer lead time because of it (4 weeks).  @fastfreight just curious - did you hear about this?

+1 @lalitk 

Looking forward to the listening impressions.

Charles 

@fastfreight 

Congratulations on your purchase! I expect MU1 to blow away Nucleus +.  It will be interesting to hear your feedback on MU1 vs G2.1. And you picked one of the best AES cable out there to transmit digital bits to Tambaqui or Makua. Keep us posted! 

Hello @nyev ​​​​@lalitk and others!

I have ordered my Grimm MU 1.  It will be paired with my Mola Mola Tambaqui.  I have an Elation KS AES coming as well.  The Grimm will replace my Nucleus + , and I will move my Aries G2.1 to my Makua based system   This is of course if the Grimm sounds better than my Aries with the Sean Jacobs power supply!  I also still plan to use the Muon Pro filter in front of each.  That will again be an interesting test.  Yes, as others have mentioned, the MU2 is interesting.  I had not heard it was a joint venture with Mola Mola…but since I own the Tambaqui already, here we go.

Thanks @grannyring.

I would start with the Zenith first. Good to see what this one move does on its own. SR fuse direction runs S To R when looking at the label. Here are the instructions on fuse placement from the Innuos site:

https://innuos.com/kb/replacing-the-fuse-on-innuos-products/

The S end should face the units interior while the R faces the the exterior/back. Fuse direction is very, very important. The fuse will need 24 hours on it before showing its potential. The first 24 hours is not the time to judge sonics. No need to play music for burn in, just make sure it is on. Get a 5mm x 20mm Slo-blow 3.15A fuse.

Thanks @grannyring.  Question regarding the purple fuse - since I have the PhoenixUSB should I consider trying adding one there as well?  Or only on the Zenith which feeds the PhoenixUSB? In my current system, the PhoenixUSB plays adds air, upper detail, and dimension that is not there with just the Zenith on its own.

Yes, the Purple fuse elevates the Zenith another level. It actually stopped me from considering the Grimm which I find very intriguing. The sonic gains were large and quite shocking. Music sounds less audiophile and more natural/real. A small bit of glassiness or audiophile exuberance was removed allowing for a more natural and engaging sound. I could easily detect lower noise. I found myself turning it up a bit more as the overall presentation was more at ease.

I compared both the Merason Dac 1 and the La Voce S3 to my Mojo Audio Mystique 3 which I owned at the time. I found the Merason to be wonderful sounding. Very close to the Mojo in all areas except the Mojo offered improved body, muscularity and weight. I would put Mojo Audio on your list to demo.

I was not that impressed with the S3 compared to the Merason and Mojo Audio dacs. It lacked the refinement of the Merason and could not match the realism, muscularity and linearity of the Mojo Audio dac. I guess I found the S3 a tad boring or less engaging than the other dacs. Pleasant sounding, but just missing something.

I have added SR Purple fuses to my Circle Labs integrated and noticed nice sonic gains, but not near the level I experienced with the Zenith 3. I will be trying them in my Tron Electric Signature dac soon. I don’t think the Purple fuses are necessarily a sonic home-run for every piece of gear they are placed, but the impact in the Zenith is special.

@nyev yes, the MU1 was all set to add FM tuner capabilities. I never even considered it when making the decision to purchase. The thing you must understand is the MU1 was intended to be the digital preamp for an active speaker system. The fact that we audio crazies commandeered it for our 2 channel system was a happy accident for Grimm. It has a number of digital inputs AND it also has analog inputs. I havent tried the analog inputs. 

@sc2, I've tried upsampling from Conductor on the N20 only briefly a few times over a few days, and I did not listen too seriously.  May be a correct or incorrect bias, but my understanding is that upsampling from the app/roon/Conductor/etc is not the path to good sound.  My very brief impression was that the sound changed somehow when I engaged upsampling.  I didn't really consider carefully how it changed.  But when I disengaged upsampling again, things suddenly sounded more together and fluid or something.  Not really sure, all I know is it made a slight change, and that I think I liked it best turned off.

I just read that yes, the MU1 truly does have an FM tuner on board with a connection for the antenna, however it was never enabled through software and presumably abandoned. Not sure if they have since abandoned its useless antenna connector on the rear. @ghasley , maybe you can comment on whether your MU1 includes the antenna connector?

Not that it matters - I just find it SO odd that a product like this includes an FM tuner and antenna connector - just doesn’t seem to belong! The rest of the product seems so singular in its design approach - minimalist, Roon only, etc.  I seriously thought it was an April Fools joke when they announced that they failed to make it work well and had given up!  Even Grimm said in their release notes that it’s an anachronistic feature when there are endless great sounding digital radio stations available.  Funny.

@ghasley, yeah, I know….  It’s going strong with the N20 still, constantly, as we speak!  I will stick to waiting things out for the DAC.  But I will add @lalitk ’s suggestions to the list of DACs I will want to try at the right stage.  
 

Means I may not have any updates for quite a while.  But I’ll give the purple fuse a go at least.  

@nyev an extra few hundred hours on your Diablo, you are seriously overthinking this. Relax….

Thanks @lalitk. The price of the first one is temptingly lower, and I did say that I wanted a cheaper outboard DAC just so I could burn in the MU1 and cable, without subjecting my Diablo to even more burn-in duty. It’s done enough of that over 4 years! That said, I was thinking of a really cheap DAC with an AES input for this purpose. On the other hand, this could be an opportunity to try an outboard DAC beyond my Diablo and serve burnin-duty as well. And, it would give me something to try for the next 60 days with my Innuos and N20 setups while the MU1 is on its way and burning in. In fact it might be even longer until I have a burned in MU1 due to high demand they are seeing right now. 

@nyev

I do realize, you wanna hold off to buying a DAC but these two DAC’s are definitely be in my list of DAC’s to consider, if I was shopping for DAC’s.

@ghasley that is a really, really interesting rumour if true (MU2 being a Mola Mola / Grimm collaboration.  That would be amazing.  Almost seems too cool to be true though, or founded in wishful thinking.  Hopefully not!

@arafiq I will try the Purple fuse with Innuos. Will see how it goes!  As I said I’ve heard from enough people that I expect a big performance jump.  I should clarify something though.  I don’t have any issue whatsoever with the Zenith on its own.  I used to, prior to the 2.0 software update.  Before that update, I slightly preferred my Mac Mini running Audirvana over the Zenith with Roon.  But after 2.0, the Zenith pulled ahead, with Sense and even with Roon using Squeezelite.  My issues only started when I added the PhoenixUSB Reclocker, which I know is much revered.  There is no question it made a world of difference, improving clarity, depth, etc.  But it made all tones, and I believe this is specific to my system, cables, etc, much more “on a knife’s edge”.  It’s not bright.  It’s not thin.  But I find I can’t help but constantly gauge the image delivery quality.  I can’t fully forget about that and just listen to music.  Everything is just not quite delivered with a commanding sense of confidence and solidity.  Not enough impact.  The N20 does this for me, but without the detail air and depth I get with the Innuos setup.  This is simply my experience in my system, I know all of these products are well loved by most.

+1

I have been following this and really enjoy reading about your journey…

@nyev question, maybe I missed it, but have you tried the upsampling on the N20 with the AES output?

@arafiq @charles1dad +1

@arafiq 

Lastly, I really appreciate the feedback you are sharing with the audiogon community. There are very few people who compare high-end streamers in their own systems and faithfully report their findings without any bias. I certainly have enjoyed reading your posts and find them very valuable. Thank you for sharing!

Agreed!

This is something you’re more likely to find on Whatsbestforum. The effort and time is appreciated.

Charles

@nyev 

I’m a bit down on Innuos currently - I’m sure just due to my system parameters - super impressed with its detail air and space but not with its lack of image stability and solidity in my current system.

When I first got my Innuos Zenith MK3, I had a similar experience. I know someone mentioned the SR Purple fuse earlier and you commented that you wanted to keep the playing field level. However, the SR Purple fuse had such an impact on the sound quality that honestly I was shocked how a mere fuse could do this much. You already gave the advantage to the N20 by playing to its strengths when you tried the AES output. I strongly feel that the Purple fuse is Innuos' key strength. You should at least give it a shot. Plus it's only $200, you can return if it doesn't work for you. In my case, it helped tremendously by providing more stable and vibrant imaging. The increase in soundstage depth and width and the extra vibrancy the fuse provided was not subtle at all.

Secondly, if you are planning to try out dacs within the $7K range, let me be the first to tell you that you will be disappointed. While they might reach the potential of your built-in dac, I seriously doubt you will hear any improvement. A well-designed, well-thought out built-in dac gives the designers several opportunities to fine tune performance which is in line with the overall sound signature they are aiming for. If you're lookin for substantial improvement I strongly feel you have to set your sights on a higher price bracket. Lalitk has the Merging dac which I believe is the real deal. I heard it at his home last year and was very very impressed. 

Lastly, I really appreciate the feedback you are sharing with the audiogon community. There are very few people who compare high-end streamers in their own systems and faithfully report their findings without any bias. I certainly have enjoyed reading your posts and find them very valuable. Thank you for sharing!

@ghasley 

At least it used to be very reasonable money at ~$5k...its now an $8k dac.

Yikes!!! 
A 60% increase. Resorting to its Switzerland roots it seems.

Charles

@lalitk

What are your impressions of MU1 internal DAC vs external DAC? I believe, I read somewhere that you were using a Total DAC, is that still the case?

The MU1 doesnt have an internal dac, it is a D to D only via an AES/EBU connection to a dac. Yes, I have a Totaldac D1-Tube-Mk3 which has three dac ladders per channel and a two tube 12au7 output stage. I have played around with the Grimm upsampling at 4fs, 2fs and then disabled. It sounds quite good with each and its really dependent on the recording. For instance, I happen to almost seek out a well recorded 16/44.1 recording over some (I repeat, SOME, not all) higher resoluton versions of a given piece of music. It seems there is something really special when the Grimm gets ahold of a really good 16/44.1 file and runs it through its 4fs upsampling and outputs it to 24/192. Quite special to my ears.

Seriously though, I went through all the right brain, various iterations of the options and I have just left it on 4fs and forget about it. I just listen and enjoy these days.

@charles1dad

Indeed, the Merason utilizes two Burr Brown 1794a dac chips in dual mono. To many ears it competes well with well executed R2r ladder dacs. I mentioned it as a very well built but no frills non-oversampling option with an excellent output stage for very reasonable money. At least it used to be very reasonable money at ~$5k...its now an $8k dac.

@nyev

The Grimm firmware updates are well done, you are correct. I must admit though...I just dont hear "night and day", "a veil has been lifted", "my wife walked into the room and asked what I had changed", "my jaw dropped" kind of comments I read all too often. It just sounds great. BUT....so did the Aurender I demo’d and while the Grimm MU1 clearly outperformed the Innuos Zenith Mk3 that I owned at the time, I was never unhappy with the Innuos. In my system, I appreciate the Grimm remote volume implementation almost as much as some other independent components as my amplification of choice doesnt have a remote volume control.

Some rumors of the MU2 are a little off the mark. I have heard, although unsubstantiated by anyone with good knowledge, that the dac section for the MU2 is (once again, rumor) being contributed to by Bruno Putzey of Mola Mola Tambaqui fame. Evidently they are good friends and have collaborated in the past.