Grimm MU1 Streamer - Really "The Best"?

@grannyring With all due respect to yourself, he's not happy because Aurender doesn't publish their proprietary means of USB isolation.

Therefore he believes they don't have one. Been going one about this since forever.

Whatever.................had enough of it!

No, it's not the best and "Pro" reviewers get paid one way or another.

It doesn't do DSD or USB which is pathetic.

I've heard it and it's more suited IMHO to classical or acoustic music.

Get an Aurender N20 a N30 isn't worth the extra $$$.

I haven't heard the Taiko, Lampizator or Pink Faun streamers but I'm more than happy with my N20.

^^^^^ This is very good advice.

The Taiko Extreme is widely acknowledged or advertised as the best streamer but there is no way I'm investing that amount of money in such a small operation.

The Grimm will not give you soaring, razor edged guitar solos, which the N20 will.

Others have other priorities and rightly so.

I love DSD, hate DOP so consider your choices there is no right answer, but I'm happy and so is @ghasley and @charles1dad so that's the most important thing when you can stop worrying about your gear and enjoy the music.

@shkong78 Yes, I prefer a one box solution if possible and the extra $$$ can be allocated elsewhere.

Both the N20 and N30 are massively influenced by power cables.

If you get a chance try an Audioquest Dragon PC on your N30, you will then be very close to "The Best".

@kairosman 

Regardless, can someone explain why you think Grimm opted to forgo USB/I2S outputs?

Because it's for the same reason that people were told SACDs were no better than Cds. A lot of people here have DACs that can't play DSD so it's of no interest to them.

Additionally if you are over 70 years old can you really trust your own hearing?

You will naturally gravitate to sweet valves and R2R DACs.

DSD is the best, most accurate digital sound reproduction, bar none. DSD can only be reproduced over USB and I2s with very few exceptions.

@kairosman Thank you, I2s is the best provided it is handled natively, although USB is very, very close. DSD is important to me so I won't use SPDIF.

I use the Aurender N20 to the Musetec 005 (which you have) an excellent pairing via solid silver USB, I have tried I2s too, but it needs to be native.

@lalitk 's system is probably the best that isn't off the charts price wise.

@nyev Of course. The main problem with the Musetec 005 DAC is that it takes forever and a day to burn in. So, yes I used AES and USB in tandem until the USB started pulling away from AES.

I have a 10mHZ master clock connected to the N20, which contary to popular belief, also improves USB too.

I hope you don't mind me saying but it looks like your system components are set up for a revealing system while I think you want a more romantic sound with a seductive midrange, valves?

Audioquest Dragon PCs are some of the best PCs but they will tell you as it is, I have several.

Maybe Cardas would be better for you.

@nyev Why don't you phone or email the sellers and see if that helps.

They, of course have first hand experience and are not reviewers.

Good Luck!

@ghasley 

@lordmelton Again, I have no affiliation with the seller of the MU! Nor should  @nyev purchase anything he isnt ready to purchase. With that said, your pricing data is a bit dated as well as the supply chain/availability is quite a bit different today. It is my understanding that availability is ZERO. You might want to call a dealer to see if the rumor aligns with the facts. Next up would be to determine what a MU1 with the 8tb ssd and double the ram at 8gb is worth.

I believe your comment should be addressed to @metaldetektor 

@nyev The N20 and MU1 are more or less set and forget units whereas I believe the K50 may require driver downloads etc., like the Taiko.

I really don't want to get involved in setting dozens of parameters.

Buying used you won't lose money on either.

@lalitk +1M

@nyev At this level, price has very little to do with anything. Example, the N20 is 95% as good in SQ as the N30, for half the price. The N30, Taiko and K50 are all favoured interchangeably.

@sns and myself both swear by the Musetec 005 DAC which is a $3200 DAC but will challenge anything you put up against it. We're not cheap, we have confidence in our hearing, regardless of price tags.

Be happy that the N20 is the least expensive option, move on if if you don't like it but you probably won't.

Good Luck anyways.

Only pay with your credit card and swallow the Paypal fees or ask him to pay half.

IDs mean Jack.

@nyev Congratulations on your purchase. I've found a solid silver USB cable is best, so an AQ Diamond is ideal.

1.8m for USB

1.0m+ for ICs

1.0m is ok for PCs

Nordost are bright and revealing

Get some SR Purple fuses

@sns 

I continue to be curious about this ongoing lack of optimal usb utilization in so many high end streamers, obviously Innuous and some others know how to do it, to not include it these high priced streamers is a crime in my book.

Yeah, it's a crime but they still keep flying out the door.

Maybe you should try listening to one sometime instead of scrawling your vast diatribes of shite....

@grannyring My system hasn't been updated for a long time, but yes Steve McCormack is a fantastic guy and my VRE has been wonderful and will be getting Steve to work his magic on it again soon.

@nyev Congratulations on your N20. Reading between the lines it sounds to me as if the N20 is sounding more unforced and natural.

The N20’s signal is un-tampered with, not oversampled or clocked but upsampling is available on SPDIF outputs.

However I digress. Let the N20 run in for a week or so, you can play an internet radio station 24/7 when you’re not listening.

One thing is for sure it won’t sound any worse than it does now...lol

As @lalitk advised there are many stages to achieve what the N20 is truly capable of, so take your time and plan what you would like to do next.

The "X factor" of course is getting a master clock, but not yet.

Think maybe firstly your streaming setup may need some improvement but before you do that download your favourite files onto the N20 SSD and see what SQ you are getting.

Anyway well done and looking forward to more reports.

@nyev You really don't need to spend many thousands on a clock. There are plenty of Chinese ones on Ebay and After Dark from Hong Kong sell decent clocks.

However a very high quality clock cable is vital, this will cost $2k+ and should be 75 Ohm rated for the N20 and not more than 1M.

The N20 will work great with a clock connected directly to it, don't worry about getting a DAC with a clock input.

Yes, Aurender say the SPDIF/AES outputs are best but this will all depend on your DAC.

USB offers greater resolution and DSD and besides that in my system the soundstage is much bigger with USB. Again though the N20 only upsamples using SPDIF/AES.

Anyway no crime in using both at the same time and switching between them.

https://community.octoprint.org/t/put-tape-on-the-5v-pin-why-and-how/13574

I know it talks about printers but disregard that. Put the electrical tape on both ends of the +5v pins. Enjoy! You won't damage anything. If it doesn't work your DAC needs the powerline. No harm done.

@nyev The master clock is for later consideration but it's absolutely essential for realising the full performance of the N20.

In the meantime why don't you try inputting one of your Dragon PCs into the N20 and disabling the powerline in your AQ USB cable.

At this stage I would only listen to tracks on your SSD and try the N20 in critical listening mode.

If you do some streaming don't forget to switch MQA on, if you listen to Tidal, the N20 will give you the first unfold, 96KHz.

@lalitk +1

The day before yesterday I connected an Atlas Mavros (copper) AES between my N20 and DAC. Just interested to see if I'd been missing something regarding AES.

Well started listening yesterday evening and it was sorely lacking compared to the USB. Granted the USB is solid silver, but they are both similarly priced.

With AES music was less separated, sounded congealed with less micro detail and above all zero PRAT.

I could easily tell in a blind listening test. The USB being light, airy with high tops and clear bass. Timbre and textures were excellent too. Vocals were real.

So I know my Musetec 005 is USB optomised but as @lalitk said even all your downstream components can influence the sound.

Anyway we'll find out for certain when you get your cables.

@nyev Go into the Aurender settings - ADVANCED and change the SPDIF output to PROFESSIONAL.

Next go to RESET DAC VOLUME CONTROL.

TURN YOUR VOLUME CONTROL TO ZERO BEFORE YOU DO THE RESET!!!!

Enjoy!!!!

It's been quite painful reading your almost daily musings, but like a blind squirrel, I guess you'll eventually find a nut.

There are many things that are non-negotiable if you want the best SQ and those things include:

Use SR Purple fuses or better in all your gear.

Disable the +ve wire in your USB cable. I know you don't want to get it sticky..lol

You are running a three legged horse if you don't get a Masterclock for the N20. I know you only want one box...tough

Plug your 300W amp into the wall.

Use a Hurricane to feed the Torus and a Dragon to feed the N20 / Innous

Glad to see you're getting a separate DAC

Please don't reply just try these things and you will see they all work.

@rockrider A N20 needs a 75 Ohm Masterclock. Word Clocks are vastly inferior because you have to change the frequency settings everytime you change from 44.1/192 Khz etc. Masterclock is plug and play.

Sine wave is best, connecting simultaneously to a DAC will have little effect, if any.

However connecting the clock to ethernet devices and reclockers etc., should give good results. The most important issue is enabling masterclock control of the N20's internal clock, which will benefit tremendously from more accurate timing.

A quality LPS is essential together with a real clock cable, not a 75 Ohm SPDIF cable. Clock cable can cost around $2k per meter, one meter or less is best.

You can buy an After Dark or Cybershaft clock for $1k or more.

@lalitk uses a much more sophisticated (and expensive) setup, but what I've explained here will give excellent results.

@rockrider I have never heard the Aurender MC20 but at around $25/30k I cannot see the value.

A masterclock is based around a tiny piece of rubidium no bigger than a grain of rice.

There are also cesium and satellite synchronized masterclocks but I don't see any value in the MC20.

@nyev A masterclock setup can be bought for $5-6k.

My DAC, Musetec 005, only cost $3k and I’m extremely happy and content with it, I’ve compared it with many much more expensive DACs.

@lalitk ’s system is SOTA using the Ravenna network and I think that’s probably something we all should eventually aim at.

My system sounds great because I have a world class pre-amp, the Viola Sonata and Dragon power cables among others.

@sc2 

Does the master clock affect the usb output? I would not think so…

Well according to Aurender it doesn't, but in practice it does, I only use USB output.

Aurender also specifies the AES/SPDIF outputs are best, but USB has always been better for me with several DACs..........go figure.

@sc2 My DAC is Musetec not Mutec, although I'm very familiar with Mutec products.

Yes, I know what Aurender says but it's not accurate as far as my experience has shown.

@nyev hasn't been able to show any difference between AES and USB from the N20 even with a more expensive AES cable.

So take what Aurender says with a pinch of salt or better still audition yourself.

@nyev I would strongly suggest you try the Musetec 005, if just to compare what a chip DAC can do against an R2R DAC.

I believe that your preference is for a brighter, more revealing sound and the Musetec will give you that in spades, notwithstanding the subtleties that it’s capable of.

I’ve compared the Musetec to many famous DACs and it’s never been outclassed.

A Musetec with an AQ Dragon Cable makes a very formidable opponent.

NB USB is it’s favoured input and it needs a long burn in time.