Grimm MU1 Streamer - Really "The Best"?
I've recently become interested in the Grimm MU1. While reviews of top end players from Innuos, Aurender and Antipodes and others are typically all very positive, the tone of the many pro reviews of the Grimm MU1 go far, far beyond, with some reviews resorting to using superlatives and gushing of positive system transformation and not being able to stop listening to material, etc.. HiFi Advice and Steve Huff (actually calls it "magic") have such reviews.
Given the delay in availability of the Innuos Pulsar which I'm told will be better than my current Zenith Mk3 + PhoenixUSB reclocker, I am interested in replacing my streaming setup with a one-box solution that includes a high-precision clock. The new streamer will continue to feed my Gryphon Diablo 300's DAC module, which I have no interest in replacing.
I'm actually a fan of Innuos, after they improved the sound of my Zenith with firmware updates and after I added their PhoenixUSB reclocker. I appreciate this commitment to improving sound quality which is why I was so interested in the Pulsar.
The trigger for considering an upgrade is not for improved sound, but rather, to solve some issues I have with too many Audioquest power cords coiled and clumped together. I will get to lose one of them and one of my USB cords with a one-box streamer. I've noticed my sound is very sensitive to positioning of my AC cords and find I often need to re-adjust the PC feeding my amp to get proper sounding vocals at center stage. One of my subs also seems to be picking up AC noise when the crossover is set above 60Hz. The second trigger is simply system simplification, removing one box. All that said I don't really have any complaints regarding sound, and the PhoenixUSB reclocker truly did improve the sound of my Zenith.
While the Grimm MU1 has it's 4X upsampling up it's sleeve with reviewers absolutely glowing over this feature and it's extreme ability to separate tones to the left, right, front, and back far better than the rest, I don't see that Grimm has gone to any lengths with regard to power supply management in the way other brands do including Innuos. The MU1's ultra-simplistic interior doesn't bug me, but the lack of transformers and power management makes me wonder....
Are there any updates from folks who have directly compared the MU1 vs similarly classed streamers from the competition? Did you find it to be as revelatory as the pro reviewers found it? And, how does it compare to other streamers with it's 4X upsampling disabled? Does it sound like it suffers from it's lack of power management? I do see that the clock should be very good...
Showing 22 responses by pokey77
Your post at discusses USB cable length. Steve Nugent of Empircal Audio, aka Audioengr here on A'gon, used to discuss the USB cable length question as it was often brought up. He has been around for some time, but haven't seen him post in a while either. But he often noted that USB cables shorter than 1.5 meters caused reflections (I think also mentioned in this thread) on the cable and so it was best that either the cable be very very short or 1.5+ meters in length to avoid reflections. That is the best that I can explain it, but Steve is very well respected, and he also builds some very impressive audio gear. His forum "Empiral Audio Forum" can be found on Audio Circle and you can also look up his website of the same name. I assume you'll find much more clear and concise information on this topic there. I've heard several of Steve's systems at the Newport show and they were really really good, so that makes me give significant weight to what he says.
I've been enjoying following along with this thread, some great posters providing a lot of insight in here.
One thing that may be of value is that if you might consider adding a master clock in the future, that may be a feature that you'd want your streamer/server to allow. |
This has been a very interesting thread so far. As several others have mentioned, letting the N20 run for a week would be a good idea. I'll go on record that most likely it'll need that or more given the fact it really hasn't been played that much by the prior owner. Let me share a story with you I'm living through now. I've been working a bit on Network optimization. I have a Shunyata Hydra 6 power conditioner that I'm not using and that had been in two systems over the course of approximately 15 years. I recently replaced the Hydra with a much better power conditioner in my main system and so it was free. The Hydra has been sitting for a year in my office and I finally decided to use it in my Network; the Hydra 6 now powers my router, ER + LPS, fiber endpoint coming into the house, and a computer + monitor and powered speakers. Sound Cliffnotes: upon listening to my system, the sound was much worse with the Hydra 6 than with the $25 power strip that had been there. It took 10 days before the sound started to open up and it was changing a little each day for the better. It took another five days until it really started on song and my system has now never sounded better, but I think this burnin/settling has not fully finished yet. I share this with you because I thought I shouldn't really have any or just a little burnin/settling since the Hydra has literally 15 years of use on it. I found that to be totally untrue. So my advice is to just give the N20 time, I bet you'll get much more out of it. I've had an N10 for four years and have had my eye on the N20, so I'm very interested in your findings. Have fun while doing all this! |
The newer power conditioner I have took four weeks until the sound went from analytical to musical. And week five brought about a good bit more improvement as well. I was wondering if I'd have to try a different power conditioner, but it all worked out, but 5+ weeks seemed like a long time to me! So I get your comments on the K50 for sure. FYI - I'm using Nordost Heimdal 2 AES and I also tried the equivalent Heimdal 2 USB and I thought AES was ever so slightly better. And it didn't hurt that the cable was shorter so less mess behind the rack. -I've read a lot good about Jorma and I may try better AES cables in the future. I think Lalitk probably knows some good options. |
I'd assume you are in for some gyrations in SQ over the next few weeks. At least it isn't worse than the USB at this point, but it very well could be worse at some point in the near future. I'm living through this right now. I changed out the Network cable running from my fiber ONT to my router with a Supra 8+ cable on 1/28/2023 and it had 1,000s of hours on it, so fully burned in. It hadn't been used in a year though. But I thought it should easily be better than the $0.10 cable from ATT, regardless of that fact. However, it isn't even near as good. Loss of bass, not as lifelike, etc. In fact, less bass today than yesterday. Pretty frustrating, but I know I need to let it burn in for a solid week or more. If it never perks up, over say two weeks, I'll turn it around and listen to what happens. So, I'd do the same if I were you; let the cable and the circuitry in the N20 fully burn in and settle. I know it is hard to wait, but hopefully you won't have to wait too long before it comes on song. |
Sounds like you are having fun! You've mentioned dCS and just thought I'd mention, if you are not already aware, the Bartok will be upgraded to APEX in March, so it'll have the same upgrade, in name at least, as the Rossini and the Vivaldi got a year ago. Hoping that'll make it a much better proposition. My experience with the Mosiac streamer is that it can do a lot of what Conductor can do, but it isn't as sophisticated - keep in mind that I just used if for a few hours because I might consider doing a home demo of the Bartok later this year. In the end, I have an N10, so if I don't like the Mosaic streamer, I could just use the N10. Very interesting to read about you switching the Gryphon module to "fast". Hoping that works out for you. |
SMPS does seem like it is gaining some traction as a preferred power supply source. I've never heard it in a SOTA configuration, but would like to. You also mention Charles, that Grimm has written all their own code from the ground up. From all I've read, optimized code is one of the big influencers behind top-quality sound. Taiko is current working on XDMS, their proprietary streaming software, and by all accounts of many users on WBF, it has had a very significant impact on sound quality for their Extreme server. These are interesting times for sure. |
"What switch did you try? The N20 LAN is 2x isolated so a subpar switch probably do more harm than good :-)" The other question is "did you let the SoTM switch burn in?" It may need several+ weeks to get there, maybe even more. I've never owned that switch, so I'm not sure on burn in for it, but I can tell you even Network cable can take some time to burn in; I've heard the "highs rolled off dramatically" in a Supra Cat8+ cable that has 1000s of hours but had been in a box for a year. I put it back in my system recently, then reversed direction after a few weeks, and it took near another week before it opened up and all the resolution was there. Was frustrating, but patience let me find the correct orientation. I also had a power conditioner that had literally 15 years of use go back in on the network side of my system a few months back and it took over ten days to open up, but it was very easy to hear once it did. Just a few of my recent observations. Anyway, good luck in your journey. Sorry about the off topic OP; enjoying the thread. |
I cannot answer your question from experience, but I've read many accounts of those who are streaming files from hard drives have experienced better sound quality with improved Network cables and switches. I don't understand why, but I believe them as I put significant stock in personal experience. The way I would burn in the switch is just to stream music 24/7 for at least a few weeks; so just leave your streamer playing even if it is on another input. That is the fastest way to get through the burn in process and I've done it many times recently and in the past. I would suggest that you also consider trying some other Network cables. This is based on my reading here and on other forums where a few people have found that while the BJC stuff is decent, you can do better. Here's a cable that is $38 and is quite good, Lalit will attest to that as well. Amazon.com: LINKUP - [GHMT & DSX8000 Certified Cat8 Ethernet Patch Cable S/FTP 22AWG Double Shielded Solid Cable | 2000MHz 2GHz 40Gbps | 5th-Gen Ethernet LAN Network 40G Structure Wires |Yellow| 1 M (3.3ft) : Electronics I use it throughout my system and it beat three other value products I tried. I do not have any experience with the more expensive Network cables, but many here do. |
I can answer that for you. LinkUp 8 handily beats the Supra Cat8+ in my system. My entire chain is LinkUp 8 with the exception of a Supra 8+ from ONT to Router. I may go to LinkUp 8 on that connection as well in the future. The great thing, as for now, LinkUp 8 is less expensive than Supra. Give it a shot, but be warned it has a long burnin time. |
For clarity, this is the LinkUp 8 I use, it is Yellow cable rather than black. I am unsure if they are exactly the same but they appear so based on the description. - I'd agree with @lalitk on his comments on the sound quality of this cable: vs. Supra, it has significantly better resolution, which yields better, more natural flow and ease to the sound.
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I've read that LEDs are noisy and think it was over on AS. Everything matters for sure.
I started using the LinkUp 8 Network cable in 2021. I put it in my system one 1M section at a time. Each time I did, the system just got better. I am using the 22 AWG Yellow version. This cable has excellent bandwidth performing well top to bottom - the noise floor is significantly lowered. I've not heard cables in the $250-$1,000 range, but I've had other value cables and the LinkUp 8 is on-another-planet better. -I will be interested in your Muon AES cable observations. I'm also thinking about going to the Muon Pro to see if it can beat my ER + LPS - I like that it is passive (I know grannyring likes it better and that was on the Muon and I think Lalitk also liked the ENO better). And so if the Muon Pro works out, I could use my Paul Hynes SR4T LPS on my ONT & Router. |
Hey @grannyring I'd like to try that so I'm wondering, how do you bypass or turn off LEDs? I'm not aware of how to do so. I guess this has to do with you being a DIY guy and may be above my skill level. |
Totally agreed. System synergy is everything. Period. If you need an inexpensive Network cable, or just want to compare to other more expensive cables, please see below. I've used it for a few years and have tried it against other value brands and is it clearly better in all ways - much better than Supra Cat8+ for example. Lalit also has used the LinkUp 8 and commented on it, maybe even in this thread. At $38 for 1M, you can't go wrong. But be advised it takes 1-2 weeks to burnin, you'll hear it as soon as it snaps into focus, really. Full disclosure, I've never demo'd any of the $500+ Network cables, so I don't know how it compares. But I'm considering the Muon Pro Streaming System - I've read that the included Network cable is very good and it makes sense to buy it when you by the Muon Pro. Really enjoying following along on your OP. |
I believe that NA have mentioned, and maybe in this thread, that they will be releasing a switch in June. Combine that with the Muon Pro and streaming cable and that should be really good. I say that based on the fact that @grannyring has the now discontinued NA Rubicon switch and had very favorable reviews on it. If I'm wrong, please correct me. |
Yes, that LinkUp 8 cable is quite the value. I've been using it since 2021 and it is awesome, better than Supra Cat8 in my system. Another thing to consider, is after you've played the cable for that hundred hours, reverse the direction to listen for less quality or better quality sound. I know the Supra Cat8 was sensitive to it and it was quite easy to hear. Lalit is doing a great job spreading the word! |