Grimm MU1 Streamer - Really "The Best"?

There are other reviewers who compared the Gustard R26 to Ares II and preferred the Ares II as being more organic and balanced. I’ve owned it for two days now in my second system, and so far I can say that it’s very good for the money. But giant slayer it ain’t. 

@lalitk 

Some folks may see these purpose built DAC’s as compromising or lacking in features but they focus on one thing, and do it well rather than try to be all things to everyone.

As usual, lalitk hits the nail on the head. Good and sensible advice.

I think there’s a problem in audiogon where the same notification is sent multiple times. It happened to me also where I received the same notification more than ten times. Doesn’t mean the sender is doing it. 

@nyev I think it's silly for anyone to suggest that the dac in Gryphon is not worthy of a higher end streamer. The only reason this dac doesn't cost $10k is that the designer did not use a separate chassis and other parts. People forget that when a designer creates a module like this there are other synergies at work that allow him or her to squeeze out more performance. I heard the Gryphon with the dac last year and I think it competes favorably with standalone dacs costing up to 10K or even more.

@lalitk From my experience, building a dac module as part of the amplifier is a tale of two cities. For example, I did not like the built-in dac in the Hegel amplifiers. Not that they were bad per se, but they could be bettered by even a $2k standalone dac. You get the feeling that it was an afterthought, or something that was added for convenience only. So people just assume that this would always be the case.

But some companies, e.g. Accuphase as you mention, don't treat this as an afterthought. There is a lot of design and engineering considerations that go into the process. It also depends on the expertise/mastery of the designer. 

By the way, I totally agree with you regarding upsampling or downsampling. But many dacs also provide an "unsampled" option. Do you think that is good enough or is there some trickery going on behind the scenes although the manufacturer calls it unsampled? Just curious to know what your experience has been,

Aurender N20 is quite a bit more expensive than Innuos Zenith, even if you add the cost for USB reclocker. A better comparison would have been with N10. FWIW, I tried the N10 last year and did not find the Innuos Zenith MK3 lacking in any way. It was a coin flip and I only went with Zenith due to Roon support. Hopefully, someone can compare the N20 with Statement for a more fair assessment.

@nyev 

I’m a bit down on Innuos currently - I’m sure just due to my system parameters - super impressed with its detail air and space but not with its lack of image stability and solidity in my current system.

When I first got my Innuos Zenith MK3, I had a similar experience. I know someone mentioned the SR Purple fuse earlier and you commented that you wanted to keep the playing field level. However, the SR Purple fuse had such an impact on the sound quality that honestly I was shocked how a mere fuse could do this much. You already gave the advantage to the N20 by playing to its strengths when you tried the AES output. I strongly feel that the Purple fuse is Innuos' key strength. You should at least give it a shot. Plus it's only $200, you can return if it doesn't work for you. In my case, it helped tremendously by providing more stable and vibrant imaging. The increase in soundstage depth and width and the extra vibrancy the fuse provided was not subtle at all.

Secondly, if you are planning to try out dacs within the $7K range, let me be the first to tell you that you will be disappointed. While they might reach the potential of your built-in dac, I seriously doubt you will hear any improvement. A well-designed, well-thought out built-in dac gives the designers several opportunities to fine tune performance which is in line with the overall sound signature they are aiming for. If you're lookin for substantial improvement I strongly feel you have to set your sights on a higher price bracket. Lalitk has the Merging dac which I believe is the real deal. I heard it at his home last year and was very very impressed. 

Lastly, I really appreciate the feedback you are sharing with the audiogon community. There are very few people who compare high-end streamers in their own systems and faithfully report their findings without any bias. I certainly have enjoyed reading your posts and find them very valuable. Thank you for sharing!

@nyev Thanks for sharing. At the end of the day, we have to stick with what sounds best to our ears. I recently had a similar epiphany. I was quite happy with the Innuos Zenith MK3. The addition of SR purple fuse and Eno filter really took the performance to the next level. By sheer luck, I stumbled upon a rather unknown streamer, and to my surprise it really checked all the boxes for me. I ended up selling my Zenith and bought the Aavik S-280 streamer after auditioning it in my home for two weeks. It was a tough decision since the Aavik doesn't do DSD and I have a fairly decent-sized collection of DSD downloads. In the end, the Aavik just spoke to me in a way that no other streamer has. It has similar levels of clarity, air, and transparency as the Zenith, but to my ears it brings that extra bit of heft and organic quality that was sometimes missing in the Zenith. The streamer just added that special sauce that I never knew was missing. I'm glad I took the road less travelled and found something I really love.

I'm looking forward to hearing your impressions of MU1. 

I was actually all set to purchase the PhoenixUSB but another audiogon member advised me to get the SR Purple fuse instead. He had tried the PhoenixUSB and didn't think it added much. So he sold it and bought the Purple fuse instead. Having said that, these things are so system dependent. It might have worked wonders in my system but I was quite happy with the Zenith + SR Purple fuse + Network Acoustics Eno filter trio, so never thought of buying the Phoenix.

BTW, I still maintain that the DAC module in your Gryphon is top class. I think you will have to get something at least $10K or more to better it. Just my opinion based on hearing the Gryphon Diablo 300 a couple of years ago.

Your reaction to Merason sounds similar to when you got the Aurender. 
Just sayin’ … 😃

@nyev let me repeat. There quite a few of us who are following your journey with great interest and really appreciate your candor. Ignore the pompous ignoramus and please carry on. 
 

Looking forward to hearing your impression of the MU1 streamer with both DACs. 
Keep it coming. 

@lalitk how does the LinkUp Cable compare to the Supra cat 8? 

Thanks @lalitk and @pokey77 

Based on what you're telling me and the price, it seems to be a no brainer.

Since I need a longer run (about 10 ft), I'm thinking of going with this one ...

Let me know if this is the right spec.

Sorry there was a typo. It’s not a router but a switch. 
I need it because I have to connect my room server and the streamer from the same wall socket. 

@lalitk Just ordered one in 10 ft length. So the plan is to use the LinkUp as follows ...

Network socket in media room >> LinkUp Cable >> router >> Eno streaming cable (long one) >> Eno filter >> Eno streaming cable shorter one >> streamer.

Do you think this cable is better than the one that came with the Eno AG package? I'm quite happy with that cable.

@nyev I think I mentioned before that you will have to spend ~$10K or more (retail) to hear a substantial improvement over the built-in DAC. It would have been a shocker had the Tambaqui not performed at a higher level than the built-in DAC at more than twice the price :)

If you peruse these forums, you come across folks who question spending anything more than a couple of grands on a DAC. You know the "bits are bits, all DACs handle ones and zeroes and jitter the same way, yada yada ... " crowd. People make these kinds of 'carved in stone' assertions without every trying a high quality dac in their systems. It is educational and refreshing to hear about someone trying a high end dac and be able to articulate what they're hearing as well as you are. 

I'm waiting for you to share your impressions once you get the Grimm streamer. The trio of Grimm, Tambaqui, and Gryphon is going to be one helluva system. Color me envious :)

@fastfreight Have you tried the Roon user forums? They have a few topics dedicated to Roon database restore issues.

@nyev Congrats! Looks like you've finally found the sonic bliss you were looking for. I just wish you had tried the SR Purple fuse with the Innuos. When you mentioned, "stunning detail, tangibility, solidity, impact, and music that is totally alive and captivating with more athletic drive to it", this is what I experienced when I tried the fuse with the Zenith as well.

I'm glad you took the time to learn what you wanted. I hope the Grimm works out for you.

+1 on @lalitk ’s suggestion of passive filter. I have the ENO filter which is one step below the Muon and still very happy with the results. It helped remove any lingering digital artifacts in the chain. 

@grannyring I currently have the Eno AG filter in my system. I think you also owned one before. In your opinion, is the Muon Pro a noticeable upgrade over the original Eno? Nyev, sorry I hope I'm not hijacking your thread :)

@grannyring Thank you for sharing your perspective. Later this year, I was planning to add either an audiophile-grade network switch to my system or a better passive filter. Eventually, I might end up doing both but wanted to take it slow. Given the positive results I have had from ENO, I’m tempted to put the Muon Pro ahead of the switch ... at least for this year.

BTW, another product that had a positive impact on my system performance was the QSA Red jitter plug/conditioner. I was told that it was a better substitute for a fuse and required less messing around with the equipment. It had a similar affect as the ENO, i.e. it made the system more calm (less digital?) and more listenable for longer periods. It's one of the products where you think the improvement is subtle, but when you remove it from the chain you realize you can't really do without.

I will look into the Muon Pro. Thank you for the recommendation.

@jetter I agree they look like some cheap crap from alibaba. I can say the same about fuses also :)

The QSA plug came with a 30-day return privilege. I was fully expecting to send it back if it didn't work. But decided to keep it. Another member, @willgolf tried their plug (I think a higher end model) and was very pleased with the results. 

Anyways, I'm going to shut up now and let nyev focus on the primary topic :)

@rc22 +1

At the risk of overstating the matter, I pretty much think you’ve not really heard what the Zenith can do until you have put a the Purple fuse in.  For context, I added the purple fuse a couple of months after adding an ENO filter and EE 8switch with a Supracat ethernet connecting the two.

Your setup is very similar to what mine used to be a few months ago. I was using Supra8, Eno (still have it) in conjunction with Zenith MK3 and purple fuse. I tried the 8switch but didn't notice any improvement so ended up returning it. I think it's downright criminal to own an Innuos streamer and not pair it with the purple fuse. Just like you, I was amazed the level of improvement a 'mere' fuse brought to the Zenith. Incredible!

@lalitk convinced me to replace the Supra8 with the Linkup cable (https://www.amazon.com/LINKUP-Ethernet-Screened-2000Mhz-Structure/dp/B07VVFC1XZ?ref_=ast_sto_dp&th=1). It took about 100 hours to burn-in but it was a noticeable improvement in sound quality. It's very cost effective and worth trying. 

In the interest of transparency, the guy who compared the Musetec with Tambaqui became a distributor for Musetec right around the time he shared his thoughts on these two dacs. Of course this doesn't necessarily mean his comparison is biased, but it is an important data point that must be taken into account when citing the example.

As for the comparison between Grimm and Gustard R26, I'm currently comparing the R26 to Pontus II at this very moment. Is the R26 streamer function as good as Grimm? Based on what I'm hearing, no ... not even close. I think the R26 streamer (not the DAC) plays at the level of Node 2i or many other sub $700 streamers in the market, but it will not outperform higher end streamers. My take on the R26 is that the value it provides is in the DAC section, which is actually very very good. But the streamer functionality is more of a convenience feature and not a serious attempt to become a giant killer. Compared to Innuos Zenith MK3 (which I recently sold) and Aavik S-280 (currently in my main system), the audible difference between R26 and these two are readily apparent. 

I will quickly reply to melm's previous post and then shut up about DACs .. I promise :)

To begin with, I want to emphasize that I'm in no way questioning the integrity of the gentleman who compared Musetec to Tambaqui, or the veracity of his claims. The point I was making was that if a party has any financial stake in writing about or promoting a product, it needs to be disclosed -- even post-facto.

I know a number of dealers who picked up new product lines because they were impressed with the products they heard. So when they promote a product in these forums, it's relatively easy to trust their judgement. But still it's good practice to state your affiliation (and most do) when promoting or comparing a product. Ok, no more DAC posts fro me from this point onwards :)