@nyev
No affiliation but there is a preowned Grimm just listed for sale on that other site. 8tb ssd, 8 gig ram. For those in Southern California, you could pick it up.
Once again, there are alot of opinions and everyone is certain of their path. The OP seemed to be interested in a one box solution and seemed to be interested at pricepoints between $10k and $20k. The Aurender is hard to go wrong with…and I wouldn’t worry too much about Antipodes QC…its great gear. The Innuos is also terrific and their customer support is exceptional. One thing the Innuos has going for it is you can use Roon…or not. The Grimm is optimized for Roon but if Roon isnt your preference then scratch it off the list.
Alot of posters enjoy their dsd and for good reason…its the cleanest dirty shirt in the digital hamper. Just like in vinyl, there are millions of variables (phono stages, tube vs ss, step up transformers, cartridge choices, TT choices, idlers vs belt drive, multi motors, mass vs lightweight, cables, wires, isolation, power cables and treatment). I listen for enjoyment, I prefer the least number of variables to troubleshoot…but I recognize that others in our hobby prefer otherwise. There are more than a few setup photos on the Audiogon systems section where you can almost imagine the marital status of the individual and there interior design preferences. Ive mentioned before in other posts in other threads that there is a very valid (for them) subsection of individuals in our hobby whose setups more closely resemble something out of a Rube Goldberg drawing with special cable lifters, rare African wood footers and almost always….a single chair (usually a barcolounger with soiled/worn velour fabric with some Taco Bell stains here and there). Its all good, everyone gets out of the hooby what they want.
I assume though that the OP is after a clean install by his excellent choice of the Gryphon Diablo and their inboard dac. He can choose a well built/engineered server/streamer and elevate his enjoyment. One box, one power cable, one cable to his Diablo and accomplish his goal. OR…he can construct a shrine to “I can make it work but it takes 6 boxes, 6 power cables, numerous connection points and other unecessary tweaks and variables with no guarantee it will sound better because in most cases they havent experienced a five figure server/streamer in a proper way. For many here, they have an abundance of time and they enjoy the trial and error of introducing complexity. That doesn’t describe me.
Demo it in your room with your gear. Decide for yourself, there is no best and there are many roads to get where you want to go.
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@thyname
I think the fad is dying up pretty quick. I love to be proven wrong. All the OG Grimm enthusiasts I know gave up on it. Admittedly my sample size is small
Most of the Grimm users with whom I’m acquainted have happily hopped off the merry-go-round (and spent less time on the audio forums) and are just listening to and enjoying their music. I’m thrilled with my Grimm now for around two years. It feeds a DCS Bartok Apex via a Shunyata Sigma v2 AES/EBU cable. Absolutely sublime and natural sounding to my ears.
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@lalitk
Now that’s interesting…Isn’t MU1 immune to Audiophile LAN cables?
I believe the Grimm is less sensitive to ethernet cables than one might assume. I believe it is essentially agnostic if provided a stable and reliable connection and data stream.
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I replaced an Innuos Zenith Mk3 (Amplifi-Network Acoustics Rubicon Switch-Network Acoustics Muon system-Innuos; Innuos-FTA Sinope-Totaldac D1-Tube-Mk3) with a Grimm Audio MU1 (Amplifi-Rubico-Muon-Grimm-Shunyata Sigma v2 AES-Totaldac).
The Grimm is mind-boggling good. Exceptional in fact. I find the Network Acoustics peripherals are unnecessary with the Grimm but heck, I already own them so they are in the chain. The above commenter who says the Grimm is more suited to classical or acoustic music may be unintentionally biased toward his Aurender setup. That’s all fine but I’m afraid I’ve experienced Aurender and Grimm before making the purchase and I made my decision to go with the Grimm. Its also important to point out that I set out to just upgrade to the Innuos Statement following the introduction of the new Innuos power supply improvement intro but was encouraged by the dealer to consider the Grimm. He handles both. It just sounds like music when you play music… regardless of genre.
Like many of us here on Audiogon, we just keep listening to and demoing gear and when we find something that outperforms what we have we switch. I did purchase the Grimm and have no regrets. Unlike many here on Audiogon, I don’t need or seek confirmation bias or approval from the community at large to validate a purchase. Go listen to Aurender, to Grimm or Taiko or whatever. At this level its about what you prefer and then buy the one you like, not the one liked by me or anyone else. I can say that whatever is going on inside the Grimm is very, very good. Good luck.
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@nyev
I did not directly compare the Grimm with the Statement. The new version wasn’t out when I was in the market, however, I had heard the previous Statement version, which was impressive. The most recent Aurender I listed to was the W20 and I did not compare directly with the MU1.
I will repeat, at this level, it really is a personal preference. They are each terrific. Also, at this price range, you might consider a flight and overnight stay for a prearranged demo at a US dealer. While I recognize that is a logistical and financial commitment, so is buying something to try blind. Additionally, in this price range, purchasing from a dealer who will provide after sales service/support is well worth the money. A great dealer will save you money, especially if they have been there for you with your other gear. The Grimm MU1 is Innuos Statement level performance with a bit different presentation…maybe a little more organic/natural sounding to my ears. The dealer was kindof like “I will sell you a statement or a MU1 or nothing at all but you really should experience the Grimm”. The advice was sound. YMMV and you will find your sweet spot with any one of these units only by listening/experiencing.
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@fuzztone
Please don't hold it against Aurender that their gear is unable to utilize Roon.
Aurender gear sounds great and many have found that they enjoy it immensely, same thing goes for Grimm, Taiko, eta al.
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Its also imprtant to understand what a piece of gear is doing with the stream. The Grimm seems to intercept the stream and then it goes to work. There are no absolutes.
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@grannyring indeed, the Grimm USB ports are normal, computer quality USB. The AES output which takes advantage of the Grimm clocking/proprietary upsampling et al are otherworldly.
You and I once had identical digital server setups with the Zenith Mk3 and Sense. It is very, very good. Quite possibly, the Zenith Mk3 utilizing Sense may just be where chasing any more performance activates the steepest law of diminishing returns known to mankind. All the best to you....
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@grannyring
I bet that Grimm is so enjoyable. Did you add file storage? Curious what digital cable you are now using.
2 TB. I have a Shunyata Sigma v2 AES/EBU. Its such an unfussy, flip it on and forget about it piece of gear and I enjoy it. If I had it to do over and if I had acquired the Grimm before my dac, I might have tried some other dacs at lower pricepoints. With the Grimm, since the dac internal clock isn’t utilized, I can’t help but think it might be more dac agnostic than most server/streamers.
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@nyev
Alot depends on our goals but you posting "but need to draw the line on cost somewhere!" is particularly relevant. Optimizing what we do so that it aligns with our sonic values for the $$ we wish to invest is intelligent. Each one of us can probably "afford" whatever we want within reason. I read alot on this site where someone has obviously overspent and we are wise to leave that kindof thing to someone else.
For me, I just don't want my hifi rig to be relevant in any way financially. That's me...other's may choose differently and that's their decision. We have a dedicated listening room but we also have the occasional car that drives past, the HVAC system cycles on/off and our golden retriever will occasionally bark or at least stop by to take a nap...and she snores....and like many here on Audiogon, she will occasionally pass gas.
I mention all of this because its wise that our investment in the gear should never be the end game, we should strive to maximize our enjoyment. The money is secondary. These are appliances that we can appreciate the job they do but they shouldn't be some shrine. In short, it isn't that we can't hear the difference between a Taiko and a Grimm...we can. Same goes for a Grimm and a Bluesound....is the gear going to serve the purpose we want it to serve or not...
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@lalitk
I've read your comments and, like you, I was firmly in the camp where you currently reside. If someone does NOT want to operate with the Roon user interface, the Grimm is not for them. I respectfully submit though that the blanket statements about upsampling and its demerits vs merits fails to recognize that different designers do things differently. While a file might be upsampled in two different implementations, how something is upsampled is where the rubber meets the road. In short, if someone hasn't heard it for themselves they just don't know what they are talking about. Full stop.
I will post later when I have the time about an experiment I conducted where I became convinced that I was wrong about the universal NOS/native "doctrine". You have to trust your ears and while I want everyone to choose the path that best suits them, the right path isn't achieved by reading and adopting absolute positions.
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@charles1dad
Where is the “absolute position “?
Here
Upsampling or Downsampling is a non-starter for me.
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I agree, its been quite civil but the posters on this thread are gentlemen…Charles, Lalitk, Nyev, Jerry, metal, abasdad…all gentlemen. I hope my earlier comments weren’t mistaken for defensive or being curt…I was on the fly.
So, software..to Roon or not to Roon? Personal preference…for the most part. Streaming has gotten so good thaat even impressions formed 24 months ago may no longer be valid. Listen, then have an open mind when listening again in a few years. My opinions on software were formed early inm my career. The short version: I built a software company beginning in the mid ‘80’s and sold it to a big 6 (now big 4 LOL) acccounting firm. It is today, many revisions lateer, still a core part of their consulting practice. In those early days, IBM was the 500 pound gorilla and their hardware ran primarily with their software…their OS only with ther big boxes. I chose a different path and worked my niche. Moral to the story, no hardware where there is a captive OS so I may be biased against Aurender UNLESS it is vastly superior. The W20 was exceptional…it should make anyone happy. Im not in love with their software.
The Innuos? It sounds great with Roon and slightly better with their own Sense software. I loved my Zenith, never a bad experience, rock solid. Im always trying things and when I change it is because I prefer it. So here is how I tested…I also have a Nucleus + server at my office, so I brought it home and tested the Zenith running Roon core, streaming local files to my dac versus having the Nucleus running core and utilize the Zenith as an endpoint. Sounded great both ways. Next, I hung the Grimm off the same switch as the Zenith and I connected the Grimm as an endpoint, no upsampling and connected to the aes/xlr input on my dac and the Zenith via USB. I then queued up the same local file reference tracks on both zones and would listen to one and the other. I believe the Grimm via xlr (not upsampling) was barely, and I mean barely better than the Zenith via usb. In fact, I would not consider the Grimm and upgrade, just slightly different, perhaps a little better but certainly debateable.
Then I repeated the above at 2FS on the Grimm and it was a component level upgrade. At 4fs its a marked improvement. So if the Zenith is a 7 out of 10 sound quality the Grimm not upsampling was a 7.1 and the Grimm at 2FS was a 8 and at 4FS it would be a 8.2. I imagine there is no such thing as a 10, lets say a Taiko is a 9 and the W20 would probably be a 8.5. I heard what I heard and without a true brand bias and I kept the Grimm. The W20 Aurender was slightly better but the captive OS was a bummer and while money isn’t really a factor, double the price for a barely perceptable difference only in rapid fire back to back listening…and the Grimm has some other really nice features that are barely mentioned. The volume is as good as any Ive experienced. It is truly a digital preamp, allowing for analog input and it just absolutely works with no fussiness.
Now then….which server streamer is best? The one that meets your goals…not the one that meets mine…or Joe’s…or Tom’s.
Amp: Audio Note Jinro OR Backert Pre/First Watt SIT3
Digital: Grimm MU1-Totaldac D1-Tube-Mk3
Ethernet: Amplifi router-Network Acoustics Rubicon switch-NA Muon ethernet cable-Muon filter to Grimm
Cables: Audio Note Isis interconnects or Audience AU24 SX IC’s with the FW/Backert, A23 speaker cables, Shunyata Sigma V2 AES/EBU
Speakers: Devore Orangutans
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@lalitk I agree with you regarding upsampling in the typical dac, even in the price range you describe. That even goes for the Chord method…I still cant figure what people are hearing when they say they love the Dave…I couldnt sell my fast enough when I had it. The Grimm decidedly does it differently. Sometimes a new take on an old idea bears a different fruit.
I was an early adopter with DSD and have a ton of files so I get where you are coming from. In fact, I spent a considerable sum and amount of time converting all of my vinyl to dsd. There really arent that many titles originally recorded in DSD, which is where the real opportunity exists. Its a shame the adoption isnt gaining any momentum…tough to edit in dsd I guess.
Another test I did, which again, is far from scientific or proof of anything other than concept. I played back the same tracks from several of my High Definition Tape Transfer titles I own. On the Innuos I played the dsd, 24/192, 24/96, 24/44.1 versions of the same tracks. Sounded great on both my Totaldac and the Meitner MA3. As we went down the resolution scale, the Meitner/Totaldac each sounded equally terrific on dsd and the sound quality of the the Meitner differed more than the Totaldac as we went down in resolution. I surmise since the meitner upsamples everything was the root cause. I preferred the totaldac with lower resolution tracks. Fast forward…on those same tracks, I played the dsd version through the Zenith into the usb of my totaldac and then the lower resolution through the Grimm via AES. I preferred the Grimm 4fs version of the playback. Once again, it proves nothing other than with the Totaldac the Grimm provided a higher level of enjoyment.
I dont mean to burst anyone’s bubble but their is simply no consistentcy of data, software or hardware out there. Well over 90% of the dsd material out there was upsampled by someone using whatever they used to do it to varying degrees of success. A GREAT may of the top studios actually use Grimm clocks in their mastering/recording chains so Grimm probably does have a but more experience in that regard and thus, a great deal of confidence/knowledge in how they can maximize results.
Another test I did one time…I had just received my Studer R2R deck back from receiving a perfect calibration and cleaning from a studio guy in LA. I had a dsd recording I had purchased of an album, I had a perfect original pressing on vinyl and decided to do a little test. I offloaded one well known track of dsd file to a thumb drive, I recorded the same track from vinyl to tape and then recorded the dsd track playback to tape. I then went to LA with the tape and the thumb drive. I didnt tell the guys at the studio what I had done, I just asked them to listen to the three tracks and independently tell me their impressions. They had, IIRC, a Playback Designs dac and a studer very similar to the one I had. I recognize that bias probably played a significant role…but they rated the dsd file third….the needle drop second and the r2r recording of the dsd file as the best sounding. This happened 10-12 years ago so I recognize technology on the dsd/digital side of the equation has come a long way. My takeaway? I thought the dsd file sounded best, the needle drop second and the dsd to r2r transfer third. Vinyl and tape sound rolled off to me and they are used to that sound. Fast forward to today, what we can achieve in the home is so vastly superior to what was even possible 20 years ago. I believe a really good 24/192 recording of a large swath of available music beats the dsd version of the same file (which was probably upsampled to dsd from that same file). I have owned Playback Designs, Chord, DCS, several Totaldacs, Meitner and MSB Discrete as far as my dsd capable dacs. I just havent been able to digest the cool aid that dsd is the answer when so much of our available music was recorded in either analog or 16/44.1. For me, for my listening taste, in my system and the eras of music I enjoy I have consistently preferred my music in the original format/sampling rate, not upsampled….until the Grimm. Everyone’s mileage may vary but we simply cant insist we are purists and one method is always better. The music we enjoy has likely been recorded in analog to tape. Then several copies were made of the original master and several copies were maded from the copies and by the time the tape arrives to the person who will lovingly transfer it to dsd, they are quite often dealing with a third or fourth generation tape at best. They do their thing and then presto, we have a dsd or pcm snapshot of that tape. So when I see/hear the conversation shift to discussions about “original format” I tend to look away and resume what I was doing. There are darn few recordings that meet that criteria…I just judge it by enjoyment and choose not to obsess about it. Much of what was being sold to us, especially in the early days of dsd sold was just upsampled pcm.
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@charles1dad
Thanks for the question, the Muon streaming system is not necessary with the Grimm. It dramatically improves the Innuos, it seems the Grimm doesn’t need the “help”. The Muon system is also very effective if utilizing the inboard streamer on the Totaldac, less so when I also had a Maitner MA3. I think I briefly posted elsewhere that, since I already own the Muon system that I would just leave it in the chain…sortof like a belt and suspenders but I just dont hear any improvement to speak of when using the Muon with the Grimm. Thats another reason I enjoy the ownership experience with the Grimm. I find that it is agnostic to a degree with all the audiophile nervosa moves we all obsess over. Power cable, ethernet cable, etc, etc. I have not tested. Many aes/ebu cables…just a Black diamond from Tellurium Q and the SHunyata Sigma V2.
@nyev Since I’m not a reviewer, my exercise was to determine what I preferred in my system. No controls, no real validity for others I guess. The ratings that I arbitrarily listed as well should have no bearing on the decisions of others as they may decide otherwise. With that said, the Innuos reclocker that you have elevates the Zenith to something more akin to “statement light” level. I did not discuss the effects of cables with the Zenith but I was using a Final Touch Audio Sinope USB cable, which I had chosen some time prior as my preference. I also want to point out that I had AQ Vodka ethernet cables (which I preferred to the Diamond) and I also have several Totaldac ethernet cables/filters. One VERY important factor that I didnt mention, which I believe provided material assistance to the Innuos, was that since I didnt find the Muon system to be necessary with the Grimm, I used it with the Zenith. That might explain the “base” Grimm and the “tweaked” Innuos Zenith performance gap being so close. Also, when writing the above I wanted to be careful when assigning some arbitrary score to the Grimm and the Zenith to intentionally not overstate some wide margin between them. The Grimm is better sounding without upsampling than the “tweaked” Zenith to my ears. The Grimm also accomplishes something you have as a stated goal; simplicity, fewer cables, etc.
I really do think the Grimm is a far better choice for many people than the vast majority of server/streamers out there anywhere near its pricepoint. The data into the Grimm is unfussy so a competent ethernet cable in is really all you need. All the gyrations of special switch this and fiber to copper to fiber to copper to external box BS..completely unecessary. So the Grimm must be dealing internally with a great deal of what we believe needs to be addressed with the ethernet stream. CHECK. Next up, the Grimm’s internal clocking IS superior to my ears and given that the AES/EBU is the output of choice from the Grimm, it will improve the clocking of virtually any reasonable consumer DAC. CHECK. I also find that the Grimm as a Roon core is a bit more equipped for the job that the Zenith. Anyone who has owned a Zenith knows that a periodic reboot is necessary be it to improve responsiveness or the rare but occasional lockup. No such issue with the Grimm. CHECK.
So, the summary…the Grimm is cable/filter agnostic, sounds great, it utilizes the superior Roon user interface seemingly without the perceived Roon sound challenges mentioned by some. I happen to believe that Roon has largely dealt with sound quality degradation in previous iterations, it just takes people a while to recognize that previous opinions have a shelf life of validity with a constantly updated software platform. I also believe the Grimm intercepts the stream before Roon owns the data, but that is a hypothesis on my part. Plug and play, rock solid operation and for those who still spin disks, the best part is you plug in your transport to the Grimm and you get all the upsampling and clocking benefits. The volume control is a joy to use audibly and physically. Now, if you happen to like the tweaky nature of setups we so often read about, then the Grimm may not be for you. I’m not saying there isnt some minute improvement to be had by those willing to go to the lengths and try everything imaginable when it comes to filters/cable/fiber coversion/reconversion/linear power supplies powering half a dozen different thingamajigs. Hey, Ive been there but that commenced at a time where we HAD to experiment to achieve a certain level of performance. With the Grimm, its just not necessary.
So, with the Grimm….imagine how much fun it is to plug it into your mains with a reasonably generic power cable, plug it in to your ethernet switch with a reasonably generic ethernet cable, plug it into your reasonably generic dac with a reasonably generic AES/EBU cable and you are done. This level of performance is all possible without all of the fussy, tweaky stuf of which we all grow so tired. Good luck on your journey @nyev as there are so many good products available today from which we may all choose.
As a fly by comment, I have spent time with the Diablo with the inboard dac. It is a solid dac and the Grimm clocking will take it to another level you didnt think was possible. What is possible today with USB is terrific and it has come a long, long way…but the logical side of your brain would have to conclude that the clocking on your dac is an absolute bottleneck and places a hard ceiling on what is possible with your sound quality potential. The Aurender and the Grimm either one would address that by enabling you to use the AES input. If that is your present path, alot of goodness awaits.
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@grannyring
I hear you and your sharing of your expeiences has influenced many of my decisions in the past. Thank you! You are always so kind to share what you learn…and to do so over the telephone as well. You are a real asset to all of us.
Your experience with the Phoenix reclocker doesn’t surprise me…but not because it isnt a terrific product, it is. It further reinforces that all products are not additive just because they are sometimes effective in certain situations. A simple example is if product A lowers the noise floor of something by 20% in a noisy system, what that product does well may make no audible difference in another system with a lower noise floor. I think we all to often suspend our decades of well earned logic with some of what we experience in hifi. For instance the reclocker may make a hige difference with average dacs with average clocking on their usb input whereas your dac likely has superior clocking. In short, the Phoenix is addressing something that you dac addresses more effectively. Thats my working theory as to why the Network Acoustics Muon system can be so absolutely transformative when I dropped it into my Innuos Zenith based setup while the Muon setup doesnt enhance the Grimm based setup in the least. In short, there are alot of products that address different things so when someone says its system dependent, what many of us are saying is “we dont know what needs addressing in your system, but in my system I made this change and it enhanced performance”. I read comments alot here on Audiogon that Reviewer A said it did this and I bought the power conditioner and it didnt do squat. Maybe the reviewer is in Brooklyn with bad power and the user who says it did nothing has phenominal power at their home. These subtlties in a system don’t stack like coupons on Amazon. For something to enhance a listening experience, there needs to be something to fix.
Be well Bill.
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@nyev
I agree with you that the Diablo is a very well engineered piece. I dont know in what way Gryphon built their board, where or what was optimized for the dac board in general nor their usb implementation in particular. With that said, I cant imagine that the usb to spdif handoff is revolutionary, more likely it was optimized. Therefore, and this is a WAG, the usb to spdif handoff as well as the clocking is more than likely very, very good but its unlikely the clocking is a world beater. The Grimm or the better Aurenders via AES will likely make a material difference.
One of the advantages of a high end company like Gryphon designing their own dac (or phono) board is they can build it to their standards based on the optimal traits to complement the Diablo. No interconnects needed, perfect integration, etc, etc. They dont have to overbuild it, they just build it to a high enough standard and thats where they should logically stop. Its a tremendous value but thats from a long ago, multi day audtition. If you like your Diablo and dont plan on moving up the Gryphon foodchain, you are set. If you are content, then dont overbuy on the server/streamer front.We all get caught up with bringing a howitzer to a pillow fight bu the analogy absolutely applies to hifi.
In your case, assuming you are happy with your Diablo and you just want to enhance/maximize what you have, I believe that the less you ask a dac board to do (even a dac board developed by an exceptional manufacturer like Gryphon) the better off you will be. The aes input will be an upgrade from companies the likes of Aurender, Grimm, Antipodes, et al.
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@davespencer thanks for posting. Is the above info sourced from Grimm/Roon?
If so, the superior Roon user experience is separated from all of the audio functions/stream, which are now handled by the Grimm? That would seem to validate the listening impressions of alot of us out here who are hearing something special via Roon through the Grimm even though our Innuos - "Roon" experience prior to Grimm ownership was better through Sense than through Roon. Thanks again.
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@nyev
As an aside, I wonder why Innuos does not support AES as the others do.
I’m going to put on my business hat and remove my hifi hobbyist hat and say its a combination of they are probably playing to their perceived strengths. If they believe they know more about usb or that they believe it is an easier interface to monetize, then that makes sense. With one type of output to try to optimize, they are probably better at focusing development resources in one direction. Support and the resources necessary to do it well is also optimized...
Since the reclocker came up in earlier posts, monetizing the usb as a business trying to make money is far easier. If your product puts out a fantastic aes signal and your clocking is optimized...how many $4k ADD ON boxes can you build and sell to hifi enthusiasts?
Anyone ever seen an AES/EBU optimizer? Linear power supplies that take said optimizers to amazing new heights? Neither have I. There is an established standard with aes that no one evidently disputes. Additionally, Innuos is smart to focus on the interface most likely to be fragmented...so its easier to gain market share and penetrate it. USB presents that opportunity. DSD 1024? yep. PCM 24/3072? Yep!
Its easier to sell a product with a moving target, where you can OBJECTIVELY differentiate yourself from the competition. If someone says box A sounds better than box B, that can be debated. If some says "we are capable of 24/3072 resolution and our competition isn’t"...thats quantifiable, printable and repeatable but the secondary question rarely gets posed...does it matter?
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@kairosman
Grimm chose spdif, primarily aes/ebu because superior jitter reduction and clocking were integral to its sound quality goals.
USB is clocked at the dac so variable results. I2S is great if the sender and receiver are optimized for one another. There are alot of great solutions out there. If you like what you have, stop looking…you’re welcome.
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@audioman58
I missed the part in your posts where you had ever experienced Aurender, Grimm, Innuos or Antipodes server/streamers.
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@grannyring
The 100mbps ports on the Rubicon and the 100mbps through the Muon to the MU1 the affect is negligible. Makes total sense that a gigabit version is in the wings. In fact, Im going to have to try my MU1 on the gigabit ports of the switch.
I am traveling but I will try my MU1 into the gigabit port of the Rubicon when I get back as well as I will see about possibly demoing the Muon Pro. I just found out yesterday that Network Acoustics added a MU1 to their demo system. peace.
@lordmelton Again, I have no affiliation with the seller of the MU! Nor should @nyev purchase anything he isnt ready to purchase. With that said, your pricing data is a bit dated as well as the supply chain/availability is quite a bit different today. It is my understanding that availability is ZERO. You might want to call a dealer to see if the rumor aligns with the facts. Next up would be to determine what a MU1 with the 8tb ssd and double the ram at 8gb is worth.
MU1’s dont turn up that often on the used market so its your call. I also believe q1 will be when most Americans begin to feel the recession that we have already been in for a couple of months. That usually frees up some used units from those who overspent in the recent past.
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@nyev
Most everything we’ve learned about ideal USB cable length is applicable to…USB cable length. USB cables do a very different job in a very different way than AES/EBU cables. For instance, USB cables are also called upon to carry an electrical current since many dacs (and printers and other computer peripherals compliant with the universal serial bus standard) require it for their USB ports/handshake to operate. Many USB cable makers for Hifi offer their USB cables with/without the power option. Curious and Final Touch Audio quickly come to mind.
Many of your posts talk about your desire for detail and warmth. While they aren’t mutually exclusive, there are some cable “flavors” that do head down one road or the other. I wince ever so slightly when you mention Valhalla and AQ Diamond as they don’t typically bring warmth to the table, but everyone has their own preferences. I have found there are a wide array of differences between USB cables, AES/EBU cables are far less variable.
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@nyev As I said above, everyone has their sweet spot when it comes to cabling. I mentioned in another post that I preferred Vodka to Diamond in AQ ethernet cables. But I prefer Network Acoustics ethernet to Audioquest so there’s that. I also didn’t say that Valhalla or Diamond were bright, I communicated that they weren’t warm. I’ll admit that its parsing words, a difference without a distinction.
We can all agree that cable A enhances some things with DAC A, depending on our goals. Room acoustics have as much to do with it as the gear. I have a friend to whom I sent my Shindo amp/preamp and A23 interconnects that he found bright. Holy heck, never heard anyone think Shindo was bright but it turned out his room needed acoustical treatment. In short, you have to admit that very few in our hobby have dropped in Valhalla to achieve warmth…to many they are the epitome of neutrality, to others they are lean. Many believe their version of neutrality is “meat on the bones” while others think thats too warm. Horses for courses and the only opinion you have to respond to is yours. No one besides you understands what is happening in your room, with your gear, your dac, your wire and most importantly, your desires.
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@lewl28
The Esoterics are nice dacs for those who like Esoteric. This particular model is a streaming dac which is even cooler, however, it isnt what the OP was asking for.
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@nyev
The Cable Company is the easiest USA access point for Jorma. Much of the adverse feedback over the years for The Cable Company comes from those The Cable Company have cut off from their generous return policy. You see some people exploit the return option vs paying the appropriate fees to access their lending library…and then they do it over and over. Then, once cutoff, they come on forums and whine about it.
Use the The Cable Company, they have them in stock and ship promptly.
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@metaldetektor no worries whatsoever and I agree with your premise. Over the past several years, I have found high line car dealers and high line audio dealers far less flexible on discounting than we have all grown accustomed to. With those dealers with whom I have good relationships they share, almost sheepishly, that they simply can't discount much, if any, right now. It all depends on the product. For instance, the dealer might say "the backlog on speaker A is 1 year...I ordered these a year ago and I have a queue. I would jump you to the top of the list and sell these to you for X% off normally but I have a waitlist and the manufacturer has a queue and I just can't right now."
That seems to be the industry right now...its the parable that Yogi Berra so perfectly summarized so many years ago when discussing a particular restaurant "nobody goes there any more, its too crowded". The inverse is also true...if something is readily available these days, its likely not in high demand.
I understand Grimm is backlogged, Devore, Audio Note, Shindo, Leben...a number of others, especially hand built items...the combination the supply chain woes and the limited ability to ramp up output...thats what has spiked used prices/demand. I used to sell a piece of gear and then buy the next. Same with cars....do that today and you are going to have to like walking and singing because certain cars and audio gear just arent available, they are backlogged.
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While I recognize that the OP has purchased a pre-owned Aurender for trial, another Grimm user asked that I post (repost) my comments from another thread regarding the fabulous new Network Acoustics Muon Pro streaming system and my experience with it and the Grimm MU1. I had commented earlier in this thread my appreciation for the Muon streaming system when I owned an Innuos Zenith and my bewilderment that the Muon system didn’t seem to enhance the streaming experience with the Grimm.
Yeah it sounds pretty fantastic with the Muon Pro streaming system and I thought it sounded fantastic before, but I'm trying to get my arms around what is really happening. Some out there might scream confirmation bias...but they would be wrong. I have no skin in the game and further, the cost of these, while not insignificant to many, is immaterial to me. The Network Acoustics Muon Pro made a HUGE difference to an already exceptional presentation provided by my Grimm Audio MU1 Server/Streamer. Wow, just WOW.
From router to switch I have swapped in 3 different ethernet cables (AQ Vodka, Totaldac ethernet cable/filter, Network Acoustics Muon ethernet cable) and the Network Acoustics Muon cable sounds more effortless and "alive". Its probably my imagination but that's how it settled for me.
From my Network Acoustics Rubicon switch into my Grimm Audio MU1 server/streamer I tried the same three ethernet cables by themselves and I really couldn't tell them apart.
I then tried the same three cables with the Network Acoustics Muon filter and same result, no discernable difference. Now with my previous Innuos Zenith Mk3 server, the Muon filter/Muon cable made a material positive difference. As I've stated before, I figured the Grimm just didn't need the help or, put another way, I assumed the Grimm "solved" many/most of the same issues that the Muon streaming system addressed.
Next up, I inserted the new Network Acoustics Muon Pro ethernet cable and Muon Pro filter in between my Rubicon switch and Grimm MU1 server/streamer and ... SNAP! ... it was almost a component level positive change. Unreal. So, the dilemma...and the question: why does ANY of this stuff make a difference? LOL. It does make a material difference but WHY?!?!?
The Grimm (and many other products of a similar nature) loads the entire song (or album) into its memory and then, in the case of the Grimm, it does its magic to the file and plays it back to my dac via AES/EBU. I can disconnect the ethernet cable from the Grimm "on the fly", then "hot swap" to the next cable and the music never stops playing. I can then queue up a new track, it travels through the Muon Pro system into the Grimm's memory so that I can A - B in a reasonably controlled way.
I hear what I hear and I would prefer the previous outcome with the other cables: no material difference....but there IS a material positive difference...but why? Many servers are optimized for 100mbps and it appears the Grimm and the new Muon Pro are both optimized for a Gigabit. Whatever the reason, the Muon Pro was developed for studio use and it has made an amazing difference.
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@lalitk
Later I switched to a Network Attached DAC with external clock and power supply. The N20 connected to my DAC via LAN (no USB or AES cabling) and re-clocked by external 10MHz clock was a different beast all together. The effect of external clock on N20 was pretty startling to say the least. The channel separation, lower distortion and a greater phase clarity became the hallmark of music signal. The new level of realism, more analogous, intimate presentation with external clock in the mix especially with higher resolutions files.
Forgive me if I’m missing something but if your dac is “network attached” then the N20 will have virtually nothing to do with the performance of the dac/clock.
@lordmelton
Your aes vs usb test is very likely a null result…if you were to get your hands on a really good aes cable and a similar quality usb cable you might hear an accurate outcome. Very few (unless your dac has an inferior aes input and a supercharged usb input) would arrive at your conclusion. The N20/Aurender aes implementation is quite often the preferred output. The clock in the N20 is quite good…
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And to re-setup your speakers. Its a thing. Seriously.
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@nyev
Could I suggest, respectfully, that you perform a couple of very important techniques.
First, the differences between servers will be material but at this level they are each very, very good. The fact that all you are changing with speaker setup is a little toe-in speaks volumes. With each material compnent change in my system comes a complete re-setup of the speakers. Once they are marked on my fllor then, and only then, can I reasonably compare the two presentations.
The Zenith is not at the same performance level as the N20, even with the Phoenix. It doesn’t mean you shouldn’t like it more but it might also mean that with the Innuos chain being completely optimized for USB and the Gryphon dac board is certainly optimized for USB and your speaker setup optimized for that chain…which brings us to the N20.
Second, you might consider pumping the brakes and excerising more patience. Wait for the proper aes cable to arrive and settle in, take the time to reposition your speakers properly, take good notes. Mark the floor (not with a sharpie but properly notated painters tape LOL). Revisit and repeat. You are about to introduce a third and potentially fourth set of server/streamer variables and you are doing it at breakneck speed. Decide between the two high quality server/streamers you have on deck. A-B til you are sure which you like better and then, sell one on and demo/purchase the next one in the same manner. Then and only then will you possibly get where you want to go. Live with something a while.
Depending on the day, a Bentley is a more satisfying drive than a Range Rover…on other days, the opposite….over a longer period of time….you will prefer one over the other when all things are considered. Listen to bad recordings of good music…which setup makes that exercise more fun.
Perhaps the most important thing to inject into the process? While the inboard Gryphon dac board is quite good, you seem to be seeking a 10 out of 10 with a steady stream of $10-30k streamer/servers….they will each sound very different, especially if your speaker setup remains reasonably static. It isn’t a race so allow your right brain to guide the experiments and your left brain to evaluate the musical enjoyment.
As always, best wishes with the journey.
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@nyev
Often I will cut multiple strips of painters tape, the same number of strips of heavy duty graph paper (the kind with precise grids). I place the strips according to precise measurements. I mark the paper with the corresponding measurements and then go to work. Once I get them dialed in, making notes along the way, and then I snap photos. I make notes of everything, down to the cable, the time of day, the tracks used and the resolution of the file. Then, once dialed in, I put it all away and just live with the final product for a while. Its a rare occurrence that things dont need readjustment, with new notes, photos, etc. Really smart (or impatient) people rarely go these lengths and thus, they get random and unrepeatable outcomes.
Everyone has their technique…the one Ive settled with works for me…YMMV.
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You would have had the Jorma last week from The Cable Company. I’ve found when manufacturers have a distribution partner, they expect it to be used.
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@nyev
Listen, I’m not trying to be difficult…but..you are considering acquiring two, maybe three $15kish server/streamers simultaneously. I’m not sure I understand why you might be worried about whether you can return a $1-1.5k aes cable or duties? Time value of money vs money value of time…
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@nyev Once again, no offense intended, but I don't think of Audioquest Diamond and "touch of warmth" in the same thought string.
You are venturing where many have been and the left turn/right turn decision tree can be interesting. When I had my Innuos setup, my favorite usb cable was the Final Touch Audio Sinope. I was never fond of the Audioquest cables after trying and owning a few. I have a friend who swears by his Audioquest USB cables. What might sound broken to me might sound exceptional to another.
With my Grimm I ended up preferring the Shunyata Sigma V2 aes/ebu cable. I will be trialing a new Network Acoustics AES/ebu cable in the coming weeks because, well, just because LOL.I enjoy my setup as is but I like to see what small changes do to the sound. They arent always positive but they are always informative. Good luck.
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@nyev
Indeed, perhaps surprising while maybe not all that surprising.
I can't speak for the others who have commented but in the back of my mind, no matter how good we all think the Gryphon dac module may be, it will likely be the weak point in your very high quality chain. I'm not saying that to be critical in any way. In fact, you have to admit that the dac module plays at a very high level for a plugin type module but dacs in general have come a very long way in a few short years. In a logical world, the clocking of the N20 should be superior to the clocking of your dac module.
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@nyev
I read one post from a guy who loved his Shunyata Omega USB so much that he was basing his choice of system components around this cable.
Whomever posted that isnt someone with whom I would agree with about very much. His statement is silly.
All I’m missing is the top end transparency
You will get no tonal arguments from me about the N20 vs Innuos. The Innuos with a different USB cable would be a start. It would also be interesting to know the rest of your digital chain upstream from your streamers. As I'm already on record...I preferred the Innuos...until I tried some others and ended up preferring the Grimm MU1. There is no right or wrong answer, only your preferences.
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@nyev
Try the K50 next. Even though I’m a Grimm MU1 owner, a very happy one I might add, I’m running the Grimm into an external dac. As long as the Gryphon inboard dac is your dac of choice, you should consider server/streamers which allow for aes/ebu or USB outputs. That way you can do as you’ve done with the N20 and compare multiple inputs into your dac to determine the optimal input match.
You are already down the rabbit hole and you appear to be reading alot of commentary, which can be fuel to the fire of over-analyzing without knowing if what you are reading is truly applicable to your circumstances. Additionally, you seem concerned about duties etc which, while I understand the thought, I dont understand the logic….duties are peanuts when evaluating whether or not you can arrive at a solution with which you can be happy for the long run. Another option for you could also be to keep your Zenith, sell the Phoenix and get your hands on the Pulsar. For very little money (net) you gain the multiple outputs(aes/spdif/usb). Ive been told by a reviewer friend that it is an amazing performer for the $$$ with a warm, enveloping presentation. How would that perform with your Gryphon dac? One way to find out is to listen and you are already familiar with the form factor and the ease of being able to try it. The Pulsar is likely what you are after but its usb only.
If you are indeed committed to your inboard Gryphon dac and the two box footprint(streamer/server and Diablo/dac), then your limiting factor will be the Gryphon dac. Embrace the reality rather than spend $20k US on a server/streamer only to achieve something “a little different”.
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@charles1dad indeed, the Pulsar is a 2023-Q2 introduction. I brought it up only in the context that @nyev was seeking maximum performance.
The OP has chosen a path, one that I’m not so sure many would embark upon, but it’s his path. I joke about it with a dealer friend quite often. He keeps describing what I might (or might not) get by moving to the next level of amplification for my setup and I kindof think I’m where I need to be given the absolute realities of a domestic environment. Many of us are willing to chase the last bit of performance but I also recognize that I am certainly capable of chasing something beyond what could be considered reasonable. Based on this thread, the OP may be getting close to “beyond reasonable”. In fact, the Zenith by itself is likely not a bad match with the Gryphon dac board. Anything beyond that could be viewed by many as an imbalance of committed resources. I’d rather spend $10k on a server/streamer and $10k on a complimentary dac than a heavy spend on the server/stremer to feed the Gryphon dac board but that’s me. The OP set a goal and I hope he finds happiness.
I do find it puzzling that the OP and his communicated impressions of the Innuos setup vs the N20 setup. I dont recall the OP’s speakers or whether he has an optimized room but the sound he describes from those two setups is inconsistent with my experience…his ears, his room, his goals right?
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@nyev
Also, unlike past Innuos devices the Pulsar does have have a AES output.
My friend has the Pulse in house, which does have the multiple flavors of digital outputs. The Pulsar will be USB only.
Have you considered bringing in a different dac? I’m not suggesting you consider buying a different dac (although I would LOL), what I am suggesting is you bring in a different dac to confirm the streamer/server differences (or lack therof) are a function of the server/streamers rather than your dac board. If it were me, I would bring in an exceptional dac with an inboard streamer that is readily available in Canada. For instance, a DCS Bartok/Lina or even a Meitner MA3…both should be easy to get on demo in Canada. You would learn a couple of different things. You could see how the other dac sounds direct connect to the server/streamers. Additionally, you could see how it sounds using its inboard streamer. Lastly you could determine the real world delta between your inboard dac and a purpose built dac.
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@charles1dad
@nyev
Those very favorable comments from the reviewer/ friend were about the Pulse?
My apologies for mistyping earlier, I meant to type that my friend has the Pulse.
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@nyev pretend for a moment that we have been friends for many years. Now, pretend that I just hit you squarely on your jaw to try to knock some sense into you! You are already fretting about interconnects? You have a six dollar ribbon cable or a four dollar board slot with traces presently connecting your Gryphon dac module... so relax for a moment and take a deep breath.
Also, free advice...I've heard interconnects make both a positive and negative difference. Its a thing. BUT...I utilize nice but sensibly priced (in my opinion) interconnects but its a bigger deal since I use single ended/rca. With that disclaimer, you could pick up a pair of nice XLR interconnects for peanuts ~$500 and you wouldnt be able to hear much if any difference between them and $5,000/pr interconnects as long as the dac adheres to the balanced XLR standard, you will be fine. Your Gryphon has balanced inputs so you are good to go. Thats what the XLR standard was designed for...to virtually eliminate variations in cables.
Get a good dac in your system. You need to know if the streamers are the limiting factor right now or if its your dac board. This exercise will easily demonstrate which. If you acquire a great dac then you will also experience a small epiphany.
Regarding your "cable rat's nest", it doesnt have to be that way. You do however have to step back and admit that the self-inflicted audiophle neurosis that is so prevalent these days is likely overkill. What cables do you have that are causing you heartburn?
(A) Server/streamer: 1 power cable, 1 ethernet cable, one digital cable to the dac
(B) Dac: 1 power cable, 1 pair interconnects
(C) Amp: 1 power cable, 1 pair speaker cables
Don't get FOMO on interconnects (or any other cable for that matter). In most cases, and I'm a committed cable believer to a large degree, people lose their rational minds. Cables make a difference but that's the final thing you tweak, not a paralyzing decision up front. and my final comment....the fact that you've heard no other dacs besides whats inside your Diablo is all the more reason to to bring in a high quality dac for comparison. You simply dont know what you dont know. If, after listening to a quality external dac and still find your Gryphon dac preferable...then you will have removed a variable.
Above all else, stop reading reviews....they have you amped up for all the wrong reasons...we have all been guilty of the same behavior so the sooner you relax and trust your ears the better. In fact, my favorite interconnects to my ears in my system are NOT the top tier of the manufacturers lineup.
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@nyev
Its all good. Whatever gets us to the desired outcome. I hear you regarding research, reading, gathering info...but so many reviews are embellished or worse...they might be truthful and factual but without a clear understanding that context is everything. To make matters worse, the writing style and the motives of the writer sometimes combine to communicate an unintentionally false impression. The writer may be trying to drive home the point that product A is "warmer" than product B but they are afraid to alienate manufacturer B by adversely comparing the two products. Therefore, they attempt to write something objective when, in fact, neither product might align with our respective definition of "warm". Unless everything in our system is identical to the reviewers, then the outcome will be different. Unless our version of a term aligns perfectly with the person recording their findings, then we will innocently form an incorrect assumption.
I was merely giving you a hard time to drive home the point that we all get conditioned..."if I add a component then I have to buy Audioquest Diamond or Audio Note Sogon interconnects" or I won’t hear it "at its best". We go "there" without ever hearing the component and cable combo and worse, we listen for a few minutes and immediately wonder how we can improve it. I’ve done it...I have a closet full of various gear, cables and interconnects to prove it LOL. We buy a filter or gadget and immediately buy more to see if daisy chaining them is cumulative?
Keep it simple, have fun, know why we want it and repeat. For instance, I have some speaker cables I swear by in my system and recommended them to a friend and he hated them. My amp is a single ended triode vacuum tube amp which is optimized for 6/8 ohm loads, my speakers are 12 ohm, 96db and my cables are almost 30 ft in length. He has SS amplification and drives 8ohm, 90db speakers with 2.5 meter speaker cables. What could possibly go wrong? What could possibly explain the difference of opinion? Of course, the physical properties which optimize those cables for my system are inconsistent with what was required by his system. Interconnects? Single ended interconnects of a particular brand/model SHOULD sound different than the xlr version of the same wire but which is right? Most likely the balanced version because the standard removes most variables.
Best of luck.
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@nyev
Thanks to being made in China. Like the MU1 too.
The Grimm is hand made in the Netherlands, Eindhoven IIRC. Not that there’s anything wrong with Made in China…
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@nyev You may be alot of things but timid is not one. Few of us mere mortals will purchase three top notch server/streamers for a shootout. Never forget, the fastest depreciation known to man happens to server/streamers and dacs.
A few more free pieces of advice, in particular, dac optimization as it pertains to the Grimm MU1. The first of which is….do not buy any dacs right now…you are introducing so many variables with three server/streamers and the various cables that you really do need to see whats going on with your existing setup. As a reminder, you were seeking a simple setup…two boxes. To me, based on my own unscientific experiments, that didnt seem possible to me with the Innuos or N20…it just might though with the Grimm. My recent posts encouraged you to try as many as you like and I implied that you should consider the Grimm after listening to the others in the event they didnt please you. Of those you are trying, the Grimm IMHO may be the only one capable of elevating your inboard Gryphon dac module to a level that you could be satisfied. You wont know until you try but now that it is on the way, you may as well be patient and wait and see. With that caveat…
Consider focusing on stand alone dacs which do not automatically upsample. For instance, the Meitner MA3 (which I love enough to have owned two at the same time in two systems) would not be a great fit with the Grimm because the Meitner upsamples everything to dsd regardless of what is input. Others may or may not but do your due diligence. Since a great deal of the magic with the Grimm is due to its clocking and proprietary upsampling techniques I can’t imagine a rational reason for the 24/192 output from the Grimm could be improved upon by that stream being re-upsampled by the dac.
Everyone prefers what they prefer but in my experience I have found the NOS R2R ladder dacs seem to sound most natural to my ears. Some will swear by dsd or higher pcm dac rates, I just havent been inspired by sample rates, only by good sound. Focus on the output stage of the dac….thats where the magic either happens or it doesnt.
I also have not tried the spdif/rca/75ohm output from the Grimm, only the AES/EBU output. I have said elsewhere that, if I hadnt already owned a top-shelf dac I might consider some of the better resistor/ladder/or R2R 24/192 stand alone dacs with the Grimm. A couple that come to mind: Aqua or Merason dac1…maybe even a previous gen msb. Might save some money given the dac’s clocking is somewhat moot since the Grimm clock owns the day in this regard.
Above all else, I might suggest that you hold off bringing in any dacs until you have the chance to hear the Grimm with your inboard Gryphon dac module. You can then perform back to back to back comparisons. Your next step will likely be to liquidate the 3rd place server/streamer in your shootout, Maybe even the second place as well. I contend that the Grimm has the potential to elevate the performance of well executed dacs which may not have alot of bells and whistles.
With the Jorma aes cable, you will get a better idea of what the N20 and the Grimm can do. Dont be afraid to rotate some other ethernet cables to feed these server/streamers. I can’t stress enough my disdain for the AQ diamond ethernet cable but YMMV. You will find the Grimm to be a little more ethernet, power and AES cable agnostic than others, which I consider a good thing. Also run your ethernet stream “wide open” at its fastest in the event your switch reduces speeds to a steady 100mbps (like ether regen and the like).
Best wishes in this next stage of your evaluation….you will find that the Grimm volume control will be your go to…especially since Roon makes it so easy. Unlike most server/streamers and their interface with Roon, the volume control from within Roon is intercepted by the Grimm and controlled by the Grimm for superior resolution. Most others are controlled by Roon and risk bit stripping unless run wide open. Again, not the case with the Grimm.
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@lalitk
What are your impressions of MU1 internal DAC vs external DAC? I believe, I read somewhere that you were using a Total DAC, is that still the case?
The MU1 doesnt have an internal dac, it is a D to D only via an AES/EBU connection to a dac. Yes, I have a Totaldac D1-Tube-Mk3 which has three dac ladders per channel and a two tube 12au7 output stage. I have played around with the Grimm upsampling at 4fs, 2fs and then disabled. It sounds quite good with each and its really dependent on the recording. For instance, I happen to almost seek out a well recorded 16/44.1 recording over some (I repeat, SOME, not all) higher resoluton versions of a given piece of music. It seems there is something really special when the Grimm gets ahold of a really good 16/44.1 file and runs it through its 4fs upsampling and outputs it to 24/192. Quite special to my ears.
Seriously though, I went through all the right brain, various iterations of the options and I have just left it on 4fs and forget about it. I just listen and enjoy these days.
@charles1dad
Indeed, the Merason utilizes two Burr Brown 1794a dac chips in dual mono. To many ears it competes well with well executed R2r ladder dacs. I mentioned it as a very well built but no frills non-oversampling option with an excellent output stage for very reasonable money. At least it used to be very reasonable money at ~$5k...its now an $8k dac.
@nyev
The Grimm firmware updates are well done, you are correct. I must admit though...I just dont hear "night and day", "a veil has been lifted", "my wife walked into the room and asked what I had changed", "my jaw dropped" kind of comments I read all too often. It just sounds great. BUT....so did the Aurender I demo’d and while the Grimm MU1 clearly outperformed the Innuos Zenith Mk3 that I owned at the time, I was never unhappy with the Innuos. In my system, I appreciate the Grimm remote volume implementation almost as much as some other independent components as my amplification of choice doesnt have a remote volume control.
Some rumors of the MU2 are a little off the mark. I have heard, although unsubstantiated by anyone with good knowledge, that the dac section for the MU2 is (once again, rumor) being contributed to by Bruno Putzey of Mola Mola Tambaqui fame. Evidently they are good friends and have collaborated in the past.
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@nyev an extra few hundred hours on your Diablo, you are seriously overthinking this. Relax….
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@nyev yes, the MU1 was all set to add FM tuner capabilities. I never even considered it when making the decision to purchase. The thing you must understand is the MU1 was intended to be the digital preamp for an active speaker system. The fact that we audio crazies commandeered it for our 2 channel system was a happy accident for Grimm. It has a number of digital inputs AND it also has analog inputs. I havent tried the analog inputs.
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@fastfreight
the MU2 is interesting. I had not heard it was a joint venture with Mola Mola…but since I own the Tambaqui already, here we go.
The above comment is an unsubstantiated rumor that I posted earlier in the thread. I have nothing official or unofficial…its just a rumor that Elvis shared with me before he left the building LOL.
Congrats! Look forward to your impressions. By the way, I am currently demoing a Network Acoustics Muon AES cable. It has some tough competition as I am presently using a Shunyata Sigma V2 AES/EBU cable.
@nyev what is the new retail price of the MU1?
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