GaN based SU-R1000 Technics Integrated Class-D, review by TAS

Can I just ask which person here has heard the Technics ? Is this ideological hatred or genuine gripe? 
 

I am intrigued by it - particularly the phono stage section and I’m a vinyl freak truth be told I am considering one. I have a Lavardin IT which is superb but I simply fancy a change after about 18 years. I like something new/ interesting 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiUXZcS8R48

here is samples of audio-comparing bryston 4b3 , pass labs and technics su-r1000

Some comments are similar to review of stereophile:)

This amp sounds very very good........I'm referring to the SU R1000

I got mine last week, they do sound different to any amp I've heard before.

I know amps sound different, but the these sound different to the different amps.

After using the SU-G700M2 for a week I put the Denon back on.

In comparison the Denon was louder, both 70 watts into 8 ohms, you turn the volume up and it it goes louder, very loud with the KefR5's. The Technics is different, yes the Technics goes louder when you turn up the volume. But it's not the same type of loudness. With the Technics the sound never really sounds that loud, the sound just gets bigger.

Also the Technics is is much more refined. 

I'm loving mine, they are different though, so might not be everybody's cup of tea. 

I'm going to hear this amp this week. Looking forward to it. Reviews have been pretty much universally great however the Hi-fi World one gave it a bit of a panning.

Anyway will be interesting to hear how this sounds in my system.

https://www.stereophile.com/content/technics-su-r1000-integrated-amplifier

Stereophile review of SU-R1000  "amp's bottomless noisefloor" is a good description of the SU-G700 as well.  I never heard the SU-G30 though I assume same analogy applies

Then the review from Stereophile is out.

December 2021 issue.

"It was as Donald Fagen and his

background vocalists were singing to me, alone."

Seems like they like it.

Very happy with my SU-G30 with Audirvana.

The SU-R1000 has the Intelligent Analogue Phono-EQ (Accurate EQ Curves, Crosstalk Canceller and Response Optimiser). Probably some other stuff too that I’ve left off, I hope 😉

The Crosstalk Canceller gives you the phono calibration record and I believe is still exclusive to the SU-R1000. My understanding of it anyways, the big reason I wanted it. Figured since I’ll be buying more records along the way I like that this amplifier could not only augment my speakers, but also my TT cartridges.

I think the previous SU-G700 only had a MM phono stage (not MC).

Yeah I was told January and that Technics is moving their unit production from Japan to Malaysia (dealer said), don’t know if that’s true. So they were having some issues as far as when they can expect to get future products in.

I believe the SU-G700M2 has the same feature of the SU-R1000 when it comes to records but I understand why you don't want to wait. On another note, I was told that we'd be getting the M2 in December and possibly earlier. Europe is getting them in October.

Now that I know both you and your wife are already missing the sound, I have that much more to look forward to. 👍

All the best,
Nonoise

Well I'm in!

Ordered my SU-R1000 (black).

I sent my SU-G700 back pre-ordering the SU-G700M2, since I only had it 30 days when they announced the new MK2 model. I boxed it up and shipped it back, and when I hooked up my old iamp and was listening to music with my wife even she was like "it doesn't sound the same". I told her i sent the old amp back, and was waitnng for a new model. But she was absolutely right... It wasn't the same! I just love that Technics sound.

I was thinking as I looked at my collection of about 150 records and stack of CD's waiting to be loaded onto my streamer how I was gonna have to wait till January for the new SU-G700M2. My record collection is only growing and from what I've heard about the phono stage I just figured I might as well get the reference class of the amp I've grown to love and can't live without.

Hopefully I'll have it by next month.

aberyclark
Ken Micallef (Stereophile) has the unit now for review and he gives a very quick, positive impression in one of his recent system videos.

@aberyclark Can you post a link to this video?.
Also isn’t Ken Micallef anti digital?? https://ibb.co/kXvsMZ3
Can’t understand Stereophile giving it to him to review.

Cheers George

Ken Micallef (Stereophile) has the unit now for review and he gives a very quick, positive impression in one of his recent system videos. I don't understand the whole convert every signal to digital, however, Ken is pretty straight up when it comes to how things sound. 

I guess HiFi World's review helps balance out TAS's overly positive review of the SU -R1000.

I was stuck listening to my SU-G30 for a month while waiting for a new amp and actually gained a new appreciation for the ultra clean sound of Technic's GaN implementation.  IMHO, this super clean sound does not work with all types of music and recordings, but when it does work, the results can be amazing. 

Just read the HiFi World review of the SU-R1000 and I felt obviously that they didn't like the product (3/5), and that they were also bias in their review knocking the Technics at every possible aspect they disliked, and then some.

I always find it interesting how some people rave about products and others passionately rail against them. Nonetheless I'm still really enjoying my lower-level SU-G700. I liked it so much that I'm actually ordering the new MK2 version of it that should be shipping in January of 2022.

I have nothing bad to say about my Technics "not Class D" amplifier, but I do believe these amplifiers have an acquired sound that experienced HiFi purists may not enjoy.

jonnie22

This thread is to do with "GaN based SU-R1000 Technics Integrated Class-D" Why is it your on every post but your own ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
I never bought AGD into it here, but seeing it was I gave the big problems it has with claimed 32 and 50amp current through those tiny tube pins/sockets.
And if you want to turn a blind eye to it then well good for you.

Cheers George.

agdproduction

Well said !

@GeorgeHiFi

Dear Sir (GeorgeHiFi),

Very seldom I have taken the time to address comments on any audio forum directly, but this time I have been forced to do so because some of your posts regarding the AGD products have been brought to my attention by several customers somehow disturbed by either your aggressive style/questionable methods or mostly non-sensical arguments.

By the way, I am posting this reply with my full name, Alberto Guerra, absolutely avoiding using an alias to hide who am I, something I noticed too many people, you among many, like to do.

Sir, you write your post in total anonymity, so no one is aware of the background of your technical knowledge. However, based on the continuous F.U.D type of comments, and baseless negative claims you like spreading around, it seems to be quite poor, possibly not existing, or at the very best lost and confused in a distant past.

Are you Sir an expert about ion contamination? About metal fatigue, electroless plating? About sputter deposition or evaporation? Wire-bonding techniques? Flip-chip assembly?

Are you Sir by any means aware of the material, size, type, cross-section of any of the wires, connectors, or conductors used in our and other products? Do you know the dynamic switching characteristics of the products you claim you know how so wrongly have been designed or chosen?

From your posts, it transpires an iota of any fundamental expertise
on these matters, and yet you predict demise and problems.

And this is just to list the very few items that came to my mind after reading the alchemical arguments in some of your posts.

Another interesting question that came to my mind after reading a few is: have you ever, and for just a brief moment of time, a minuscule % of the incredible amount you dedicate to "contributing" to this Audio forum, listened to a single product you brag to know so deeply with detailed intimate design characteristics?

It seems not.

For your information, AGD’ designs can handle exactly what is stated for maximum current, or switching frequency and all the rest of their key characteristics and they can do because all the electronic components employed (passive or active), and all the electro-mechanical elements that are part of the design itself is created, manufactured, and tested exactly for such purpose, to meet the design targets, meet the highest quality standards, and deliver the best possible sound.

For your information, all AGD products are also covered by a 5-year warranty, so your additional accusations are plain and simply false too.

Of course, it would be an epiphany for all the audiophiles contributing to the Audiogon forum to see a redeemed attitude from you... sometimes one day in a not too far future.

However, I am afraid that this is a case falling into the taxonomy of a species for which my old boss used to say “A lavare la testa all’asino si spreca acqua tempo e sapone”.

Sir (GeorgeHiFi), if you are just half savvy as you like to depict yourself in this forum, I am sure you will be able to get google to translate the message… for your consideration.

Unless he's a robust 82. They just can't hear above 15kHz, but maybe it's not even this high.

With all due respect to Mr Cordesman’s review, the man is 82. When I’m 82 I wouldn’t expect people to believe everything I say about sound quality

I’m no EE, but I thought we can draw up to 1800 watts from the outlet. Are power supplies *that* wasteful ?

Class D sucks!! There's no way an amp can draw 7 watts at the wall and produce 100W at the speaker! You are all deluded into thinking this stuff works.

- Me, cherry picking some random specification and then acting as if it actually mattered.

It’s sad, he’s the biggest offender of what he accuses others of doing. And the lack of comprehension... well that’s a whole other story.

I’ll state it once again, because you don’t comprehend!

"There is no way on the AGD that those tube pins can possibly take 32A of current let alone 50A!!! If they do, then burnout trouble to both pins and socket connections will happen eventually"

Then the socket and tube will have to be changed, and the even bigger trouble is guess what!! the GaN amp module is inside the tube!!!!
Big bucks for that service work. For his sake hope it doesn’t happen in the warranty period, for owners hope it does.

The editor here says that A/B amps are "near perfect". WAY off...

The review’s criticism fly-in-the-face of what every other review has said about these. Earlier digital-D’s -whether Technics, Lyngdorf TDAI or NAD M32 had no such complaints. Neither did Cordesman (at TAS) on this unit.

Remember, these don’t need a D/A or preamp before the power stage. They are 'disruptive’...

A much more realistic and thorough review of the same Technics integrated has been published in the October issue of the Hi-FI World UK.

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/hifi_world/10_2021/editorial.htm

If you want a powerful amplifier in a small case, a Class D NCore amplifier from Hypex (Netherlands) has become a popular choice"  I said last month.

Reason being NCore has overcome all the problems of Class D, notably high frequency distortion, load sensitivity and D.C. on the loudspeaker terminals.

So I was a bit taken aback to encounter all these problems on Technics new SU-R1000 Reference not-Class D amplifier you can read about on p10.

I have to call it that at their insistence, but that it's not Class D is a technicality: all the same issues arise. It is what is commonly termed an 'analogue switching amplifier'. These have been around for 20 years or more, without gaining popularity – so a surprise that Technics should try again in unconvincing fashion.

You both give nothing technical to your arguments at all.
And this thread is about the Technics SU-R1000, not the AGD so take it somewhere else. Please

art_boston
It's sad, he's the biggest offender of what he accuses others of doing. And the lack of comprehension... well that's a whole other story.

1. You are accusing AGD with blatantly lying as to delivering 32A.

Your dreaming, ask any tech, you try putting 32-50Amps!! as quoted through those 6550 leaf contact pin/sockets and see what happens to them over time, even the designer said the tube thing was a bit of a gimmick in an interview. (Yes for the gullible to swallow).

Again with switching frequency! Yes, 1.5MHz is higher than 800kHz, not better.

You have no idea what the switching noise filter has to get rid of it before it get to your speakers and what it does to the phase integrity of the audio band.
This is the phase shift at 600khz https://ibb.co/yPT2bH0, for 800khz the red trace would only move to the right so it’s 70 degree "worst point" at 10k now, will then be at 20k instead with 800khz.
So you still have bad phase shift with 800khz in the audio band down to 2k instead of 1k. Still bad news.

And bwt why are you here, this is a Technics SU-R1000 thread stop shilling for AGD, your only causing it more hurt.

George, you are pathetic:
1. You are accusing AGD with blatantly lying as to delivering 32A. This is easily verified. There is no way a reputable manufacturer would risk claiming so if it were not so.

2. You did not read from Alberto's mouth that his GaN's ARE specifically designed for audio. HIS GaN's are HIS alone.
3. Again with switching frequency! Yes, 1.5MHz is higher than 800kHz, not better. It does not make for better SQ! You are obsessed with SF and ignoring SQ!
Geez!

Really

First off Im going to let you know about an amp company that makes such a stunning GaN amp, that I immediately negotiated the USA Dealer position . It is nothing like any of you have yet heard and I stake my name on it . The AGD Production amps are capable of delivering 32A of current on the $7500 model and 50A on the $18K model. They switch at 800Mhz. They are the only GaN amps where the MOSFET is designed for HiFi ground up. The other amps are using GaN devices optimized for battery chargers.

He’s a shill for AGD, there is no way that those tube pins can possibly take 32A of current let alone 50A. He’s talking out of his ..
And he has no idea about the GaN transistors themselves that get used in these audio amps whatsoever, as the ones for battery chargers couldn’t take the current or the voltage that the audio ones use, again he just talking out of his .
And 800khz switching frequency yes is a "bit" better than 600khz, but no way near as good 1.5mhz that Technics uses in the SE-R1 and I believe from what someone said the SU-R1000 also. .

Lot's of truth there.

I stumbled into this and while it is polarizing and opinionated, some of what is being said is pretty interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUtbVrYDQuo

@scott22 I agree, liking the SU-G700, but I also love vinyl so the SU-R1000 is a big deal to me. Yet at 10k, and considering my TT isn't the best (or what I'd consider worthy of the phono stage of the SU-R1000) I am gonna wait this out and see if I could grab a used one down the road... but doubt it. Seem Technislcs is low volume high cult following and their stuff doesn't pop up much.

Devialet curiously sounded better than the Rowland, which surprised me.

 That doesn’t surprise me at all, if the Rowland was the $10k Continuum S2.

As in that they just used a Pascal "tweaked?" Cheap Chinese Class-D modules made for sub-woofer amps.
http://www.theaudiobeat.com/equipment/pics/jeff_rowland_continuum_2_large_inside.jpg

https://s25.postimg.cc/g9j21ldv3/20170819_180541.jpg

And here is the $100 Chinese Sanway subwoofer amp https://imgbb.com/kBHf1S4

Cheers George

Heard a Rowland, another devialet, past two months.
when I have a day off, I love taking a few hours, putting on some better clothes, cologne, as I am treated better.
I love lugging in my Sunfire to test speakers, as well as my own music, testament, Riot, seance, ....you get the pic..... they will not leave the room during play time, they have stereotyped me with my choice of music,...

Few Months prior, I showed up in my work clothes, I’m a construction worker, you figure it out. Partially ignored, pretty much came up with excuses why they would not hook up my Crest CA-9 to listen to music on their speakers.....this one made me smile...”crest is not an audiophile amp” had to smile on that one. We only play the amps we sell and represent.  We don’t have balanced cables or a preamp which accepts balanced cables.  
As mentioned, I brought in my Sunfire ,dressed well, cologne, combed my nest head, and was welcomed with open arms, until I popped in testaments practice what you preach, the attitudes quickly changed to a nice dressed man,...to a parolee....hell, I even shaved.


amyway, eventually listened to the devialet and the Rowland D amps, while they played music, and sounded good, there was something missing, the Devialet curiously sounded better than the Rowland, which surprised me. 

I have no doubt that the Technics unit sounds good.  Whether it outperforms other 10K integrated's--that's pretty exalted company--is another question.

Focusing just on GaN technology, 10K gets you a pair of AGD Audions + well on your way to a really nice preamp.  Food for thought.

the good news is that the better made, higher priced gan or otherwise class d amps are sounding quite good these days, much much better than older stuff, even under big uber high end brand names who have gone there in the past

the bad news is that reviews, esp. by the commercial audio press, online, or in print, will only get you so far, as they have mixed incentives to report the whole truth, nothing but the truth, and legit and useful comparisons that buyers likely care about

auditions (ideally in home, in your own system) are key, but they cost time energy and money... that being said, the good news above is indeed good news, and the differences in sq between different units may be relatively modest on all but very good very resolving systems... on many systems most modern options will be very good in producing glorious music, especially when direct comparisons are not at one’s disposal

i have gone back to the budget gan mini 5 - listening to this very modestly priced amp with various dacs i have laying around, soekris, pontus, audio mirror doge... in all cases there beautiful reproduction of music without typical distracting hifi nasties

georgehifi  Plus 1 

I own the baby technics  SUG 700 integrated amp I picked up on here at a steep discount thank you very much to the seller. My only gripe I wish it had more power but really not needed in my system.
 The SUG700 is beautiful to look at and listen to at a fraction of the cost of its big brother, but with a few of the same features. I'm don't spin records so I could give a rats patoot about the phono stage but I do listen to headphones and my Focal's sounds great thru this amp.
What I've said before on here Technic's customer service sucks, actually it's nonexistent as far as I am concerned period amen. You see you can't speak to a person, hell you can't contact a person at Technics give it a try. Why do I say this the email address and phone numbers in their manual do not work. I called Panasonic the same deal no people answer just recording telling you to leave a message which is ignored.  So  I randomly calling variations of phone numbers listed and  I got some guy at his desk and he gave me an email address at Technics  I wrote to it and never got a response. Hell I was only looking for information about the SUG 700, I sure hope this unit never breaks! 
I might also add their marketing sucks as well as evident in the limited reviews available on the SUG 700. 

Unfortunately, GaN amps sold direct only (like LSA) will not be reviewed in most, if not all print magazines. It will be up to the many forums to tell their personal experiences

Over decades of reading reviews where a component was simply inserted into a ’reviewers’ system without regard to what makes the component special and likely incompatible with the reviewers kit. A case of the blind leading the blind. Case in point; MANY reviews of true balanced kit were reviewed in NON true balanced systems with the reviewer closing with I heard very little difference... is pathetic, as it leaves the buyer at a loss of what the kit would sound like in a true balanced system.

AC is long known to wax enthusiastic over all the equipment he reviews, but in this case, his comments about how the SU-R1000 sounds, very much mimics my own experience with a stock LSA Voyager GaN amp, a 350/600 ground up build GaN amp at a most reasonable $3000

Wow!!! what is it with you guys, are you so entangled with what your spruiking and shilling for, that you can’t stand to see anything else get some cred, even if it’s on another thread to what your spruiking/shilling on??

Get some meds/or life "quick"

Oh boy another link. This time from non biased characters.

Ok, so we're going down that path well here we are.

And from Absolute Sound, quite the opposite
" The new Technics SU-R1000 integrated amplifier is one of the most innovative and best-sounding pieces of electronics I’ve had the opportunity to audition in recent years."

And from Stereophile a "Webinar" with the Technics guys. Review yet to come.
https://event.webinarjam.com/replay/42/2owr9fm9cl0cg7czrw

Cheers George