No idea but MC should be here shortly to help you out.
FUSES, Finally!?
I have been adamant about avoiding special fuses, because of the lack of empirical studies. Here is my question: What would be something not too expensive that would be a good start. I use three dual mono Audire amps (for Woofs, Mids and Tweets, and Subs, each of the six channel having four fuses. I would not not want to spend thousands, even if I could, just to experiment. My heat sinks do unplug, along with the outputs, and I could try just one channel or one amp. Paul of PS mentioned what they use, and that might eventually be a possibility, but what do you guys (and gals?) think I should do, to just to convince this ageing skeptic? Also, each channel of my amps has one single, dedicated computer chip that regulates the filling of the 4 26,000 mf caps (per channel), which might make any difference less than a design that allows a flood of electrons into the tank, presuming that might matter. DanV
81 responses Add your response
“What would be something not too expensive that would be a good start.” Many good options....Furutech, Hi-Fi Tuning, SR 20 and SR RED (30% off on VH Audio).....all under $90. I suggest you focus on amps that are powering up Mid’s and Tweets. I doubt you would hear any audible uptick in subs or amps powering bass woofers in your main speakers. Ignore the ‘noise’ from usual fuse naysayers and trolls :-) |
I believe in fuses, but because you have a lot to change, this is what I recommend. Better fuses have superior electrical characteristics as well as superior mechanical characteristics ( ime ). Before spending any money, do this : Remove each fuse, 1 by 1, and wrap a bit of painters tape around the center glass ( no need to cover all of the glass, but be consistent with the amount of turns of the tape, for each fuse. Clean the glass of the fuse 1st with a dry lint free cloth before applying the tape. After application, wipe the ends of the fuses with a dry lint free cloth and re-insert them. If you hear a difference, two things are happening. I : the fuse is less resonant in it’s holder and 2 : the electrical connection between the fuse and the holder is now cleaner, just by the removal and the re-insertion. This is not a joke, I promise you. Enjoy !, and be well. |
Right. Don't know about the bees but Synergistic Blue and Orange are good value for money. Either one of these roughly $150 fuses is approximately equivalent to a $500 power cord. Fuses are just one in a very long list of highly questionable things that turned out to work exactly as advertised. What I always do is first listen to how people say they sound. Of course no one hears everything exactly the same. So it should be expected to find people who hear nothing. Also there are people too closed minded to ever try. Also extremely cheap people. All kinds of people who for all kinds of reasons these things make what they have to say utterly worthless. So you filter those out. Then you look for people like me, and there are a whole lot of others, who are all saying yes these things are directional, they do work, dynamics, clarity, imaging, extension, across the board improvement. Well then how can you get one for the least cost? The best is occasionally SR has package deals. But not often. Or if you don't want to wait then buy one that will work in an amp. Because then it will be high enough rating that after you prove it works in the amp it can be tried elsewhere. It may be you have a component they don't work that great in. With me it was my turntable motor controller. Only place it wasn't a big improvement. By trying the fuse in multiple components you'll know. Even though they have a 30 day return, still its nice to try and see if there's some place it works better than others. Then just keep buying/adding until you're in that place. Contrast the quality of this advice to the triggered haters who have nothing productive to add. That alone should be enough to tell you what to do. |
Just buy a bunch of new Bussman fuses for a dollar each, clean all the fuse contact holders and squeeze them together for a stronger hold on the fuse. Don’t be a "gullible sucker" and buy any fuse over a couple of bucks each Just re-new your fuse with the same amperage if it’s old and has seen many turn on cycles, with a quality one like Bussman or Littlefuse and clean the cradle fuse contacts and maybe squeeze them in a little for a tight fit. And definitely don’t be sucked into any $$$ boutique hifi fuses Cheers George |
You could try these at about $13 a pop:https://www.akikoaudio.com/en/other-brands/wilbrand-acoustics/528-wilbrand-acoustics-silver-fuse I can’t vouch for them as I’ve never tried them but for the price of entry, not bad. If not, try and source some HiFi Tuning Silver Stars or Gold on eBay. And don’t pay any attention to Georgie. As you can see, he can’t be civil right from the start. I don’t see how his posts aren’t automatically removed for the bile and insults he constantly uses. He’s not all there. All the best, Nonoise |
Be aware that just because your amp uses 4 fuses per amp does not mean you will need 8 fuses just to try. When I said try one, I meant try one. You can go one per amp, but unless you have gone the Full Monty with mono pre-amps then you can try just one fuse in the pre-amp. Then try it in whatever source component. Simply not necessary to deck the whole system out. Maybe with some of the cheap stuff people are talking about, where any difference at all is hard to tell. But not with Blue. No way. |
I guess what I need is a minimal amount of money for four fuses to cover one channel of my six. If even a relatively cheaper fuse makes a difference, I could go to more expensive ones, but I need four to start. That is $600, now. I would do something else for that money, especially if I liked then and needed 24. I am n9t a fanatic, as indicated by my use of decades old amps. |
I did not find Georgie to be so demeaning. I agree with him, and have already done what he suggested, more tahn once over the years. For other skeptics, google, The Skeptic magazine's article, Audiophoolery. One of my favorite heretical statements in it concerns burn in time: Why do salespeople recommend three months for a componentsto burn in? 90 days is how long your credit card company gives you to get a refund for a scam. I only ask because Paul of PS Audio said he heard a difference. My other issue is that I do not have immense surges of power, because the Apollo Moon Mission rocket scientist who designed, manufactured, and service my electronics uses a NASA computer chip to regulate the four 26,000 mf NASA caps per channel as they fill. This might preclude the necessity of better power cords or fuses. The amps will play at medium volumes for a minute or more, after the NASA breakers are turned off. There does not seem to be a needed for a rush of power for immense surges. Anyone??? |
mrdecibel Good advice; however, for me I wonder if resonance is an issue when my speakers are not in the room with my electronics or sources. It can't hurt to try. BTW, everyone: An ohmmeter on the two fuse clamps, and some turning of the fuses will absolutely alert you to any connection issues. If the meter does not move when spinning/turning the fuses, and remains on 1, all is good in that respect. |
Hello theaudiotweak, I'm right here, in LA. It's just that I've sourced low cost fuses from Europe and Asia before so it's no biggie to go there. What I didn't know is that those breakers work over here. I've know of them for some time but thought they were proprietary for use over in Europe. All the best, Nonoise |
Here is what I saw..they appear to be physically to small for most uses I have.. https://www.akikoaudio.com/en/products/570-05-akiko-audio-cylindric-fuse-cartridge-english The fuses shown are described and look much like the Acme fuses sold out of Seattle. Inexpensive cryod silver and ceramic version which actually sound very good. I would go to the next higher value if your unit has a lot of in rush at turn on. Tom |
Yup. Those are the ones I saw before. I always thought it’d be nice if they could be used here, stateside. And, thanks for the heads up on the Acme Audio fuses. Their price is very reasonable so I bookmarked it for future reference. In fact, I may try them soon. https://acmeaudiolabs.com/products All the best, Nonoise |
The main reason I have been such a fuse skeptic is that I assumed the fuses were not in the audio path. The ones in my amps certainly do not seem to be. I did used to use in line speaker wire fuses for my Phase Linear 400 powered Advents, but that was nearly 50 years ago. The NASA Apollo circuit breakers I mentioned are really only used as power switches. They are really robust. I do agree, right or wrong for now, that the bass should be least affected. |
nonoise I don’t see how his posts aren’t automatically removed for the bile and insults he constantly uses. danvignau O I did not find Georgie to be so demeaning. I agree with him Thanks dan, he only said that because he put himself into the snake oil group I was generalizing about, that also say AC fuses are directional. Cheers George |
Fuses absolutely make a difference ,the stock steel fuses tons of resistance , Copper or Silvers 4 x better conductor . I use on power cords and fuses Furutech Nano fluid which is nano particles of Silver and Gold and fills in the voids ,or pours in metal. takes 75-100 hours but a noticeable increase in resolution ,system dependent of course. after seeing on Stereo times best of 2020 $2200 fuses ,that's just insane IMO , the Synergistic Orange at $160 is steep for a fuse but worth the results. Synergistic will be coming out with a even better fuse ,this year I heard when is anybody’sguess and I would imagine creeping up near the $200 mark. |
It's simple if I was down under I'd have George fix my stuff If he had the time.. I can always sneak in my fuse later.. I'm sure he's quite handy in the troubleshoot and repair department.. And what George likes, all weigh a TON.. I like tonnage in speakers and amps.. just not on the back of the old flathead. 115 is about it.. Tire rubs.. :-) Regards |
If you want to perform a free short term experiment to determine if fuses can make a difference, take a small piece of heavy gauge wire or metal and bridge the fuse holder. Your equipment of course will not be protected during the test but the likelihood it fails catastrophically during the test is very small. |
cal9127 I am not instigating, per se, but I was looking for a spontaneous answer (just received from willcycle), that for the method I had used to determine that on my amps, which have one computer chip per channel that regulates the power supply, to finally satisfy my curiosity, while confirming what I thought was true, which is: If you have a power supply that is designed with a lot of overkill, and this supply is highly regulated by (only) limiting current to the filter caps which are much larger than necessary, fuses make no difference whatsoever. Thanks to Paul from PS Audio, who inadvertently made me able to figure this out, when in one of his videos, he said that we should not turn our amps off, because of the heavy surge of electricity that floods the system and creates electronic wear. My amps do not do that! Thanks Paul! For my amps, which have a 500 watt transformer and 4 26,000 mf filter caps per channel, fancy fuses (tested by shorting the fuse blocks) do not matter at all. I am just surprised that his amps do not have this design feature. COMPARISON: An early Bryston 200 wpc amp has two 4000 mf filter caps per channel. My amps are 125 wpc (@ 8 ohms; 250 @ 4; 400 @ 2), with six and a half times that, AND have a totally regulated power supply. For now, I will state that I have seen no indication that fuses matter on a well designed amp. FYI, my Bryston did sound a bit better at loud volumes with the fuse blocks shorted. It also drops a lot of bass at high volumes. The Audires do not, except for one I bought used that had the filter caps changed to 12000 mf x 4 per channel, instead of 26,000 mf. Audire did eventually make better amps than mine, but mostly by at least doubling my 6 output transistors per channel. They were 100 wpc, class A, and 200 wpc, A/B, in the same chassis. Their power supply is the same (Except for an early version that used the Audire 100 wpc amp's single 1000 watt transformer). |
| Post removed |
Transformers generate resonance as do all stationary electronic signal parts and all moving parts. The fact that all your components are made of many metal and many more plastic types they all have a different resonance of shape and time..That interfering energy will become part of the sound of the device even if it is located out of the listening space. Most resonance is self generated. Tom |
theaudiotweak2 Good Point! BUT! How would a fuse help curb vibrations? I did notice that my newer amp of the same model (17 years difference) did use heavier metal all all around. A couple of resistors per channel were changed, too, but Julius had already sent me the upgraded pair, when he modded my one blown channel that I sent him. The actual problem turned out to be a bad XLR adapter. DOH! |
The more I read posts on what does or doesn’t matter sonically, the more I think it would be beneficial, for a lot of folks interested in how their gear functions, to take a basic course, or at least do some extensive reading on basic electricity including resistance, inductance and capacitance. Can’t hurt. |
Sure seems like it couldn’t hurt. Until you learn it, and then listen to a lot of stuff, and start to realize there’s a lot more going on. Then when you look around and see how many guys think that because they have learned a few terms like impedance they know how things work. There may come a point where an over reliance on looking at things from a technical point of view does way more harm than good. I reached that point decades ago, and the more time goes by and the more things I see the more sure I am its the correct view. Just look at the above post. The OP danvignau started this thread a couple days ago. Instead of ordering some of the highly recommended SR Blue or Orange fuses and finding out for sure if they work or not he’s wasted a tremendous amount of time chasing down imaginary technical fantasies. I say fantasy because the posts above are entirely in these guys heads. Not only are they imaginary, they are hypothetical! That’s literally what the word "if" means! Some guy proposed a simple test. But instead of actually doing the test they find it a whole lot easier to IMAGINE doing the test, and then IMAGINE all the long list of ASSUMPTIONS the false conclusion of which is - SURPRISE! - don’t need to spend money. What a load of bull. Sorry. Imaginary bull. I’m imagining a big steaming pile like the one Jeff Goldblum stuck his arm into in Jurassic Park. A really big steaming pile of it. The false assumption- there’s a lot of them by the way, only gonna tackle one - is that all these fuses do is the same as a dead short. A solid copper wire. Whatever. Why? Why is anyone dim enough to think this is all that’s going on? I’ve got stuff that can be dabbed on any ordinary fuse that will make it a whole lot better. Synergistic fuses have a gray blob on there that they specifically instruct you not to remove. Is no one curious why the gray blob matters? Buy some of their outlets you will find the same gray goo blob on their outlet terminals. There’s guys with way more experience than me, but even mine is enough to know there’s no such thing as a power supply so regulated to perfection that a power cord won’t make it even better. Well, if a power cord then why not a fuse? Sorry, said I wasn’t going to tackle any of the other false assumptions. Its just such a target-rich environment. Can’t help myself. Anyway, should be more than enough here to show the time one can waste on techno-blather instead of doing what actually does work right here in the real world, trying stuff and listening to it. |
I love the directional fuse guys the best, because it is akin to wearing putting a swastika tattoo: It lets people know where you stand.What a sick and disgusting thing to say. Remind me not to come to your defense when the objectivists fall on you like a ton of bricks for saying you do hear a difference when you try it. All the best, Nonoise |
The more I read posts on what does or doesn’t matter sonically, the more I think it would be beneficial, for a lot of folks interested in how their gear functions, to take a basic course, or at least do some extensive reading on basic electricity including resistance, inductance and capacitance. Can’t hurt. Perhaps, but if biases are firmly set in stone, you will still end up with the post below. There is a difference between possessing knowledge and being able to apply knowledge, especially in areas outside direct education. There’s guys with way more experience than me, but even mine is enough to know there’s no such thing as a power supply so regulated to perfection that a power cord won’t make it even better. Well, if a power cord then why not a fuse? Sorry, said I wasn’t going to tackle any of the other false assumptions. Its just such a target-rich environment. Can’t help myself. |
I’ve got stuff that can be dabbed on any ordinary fuse that will make it a whole lot better. Synergistic fuses have a gray blob on there that they specifically instruct you not to remove. Is no one curious why the gray blob matters? Buy some of their outlets you will find the same gray goo blob on their outlet terminals.This is the kind of snake oil voodoo that fusers just love, the unexplainable furphy’s. Maybe they are Scientology’s infiltration weapon into audio sector, to slowly do some recruiting of the many gullible in audio? That grey blob of could be a secrete concoction that L Ron Hubbard devised as a virus, to make you more susceptible to their persuasion’s. |
Two of the most closed-minded tin-eared "audiophiles" in the universe. Notice neither one of them will come out and say whether or not they are able to hear any differences, or evaluate when one thing is better than another. Instead they hide behind innuendo and insults. Oh, and credentials. Of all the discredited things, to still believe in credentialism. Two peas in a pod. |
I joined this forum about a year ago and have read some good information on it but I also have had to bite my tongue numerous times in an effort to avoid confrontations with the firmly biased. with a lot of things in life, you need to have a filter and just move on. I have 70’s-80’s system that I still like the sound of and try to keep in good operating condition. I’ve learned a lot about the amazing gear that’s out there from you folks. |
No MC, I have been quite clear. I have had several audiophile friends tell me about their new fancy fuses and I have shown them, in their own system, that when they didn't know what fuse was installed, they couldn't tell the fancy fuse from a basic fuse. Weird huh. I practice what I preach. Now back to the prince of innuendo and insults. |
“I have had several audiophile friends tell me about their new fancy fuses and I have shown them, in their own system, that when they didn’t know what fuse was installed, they couldn’t tell the fancy fuse from a basic fuse.” Thanks for humoring us 😂 PS: Do you know anyone here who can possibly confirm your involvement as stated? |
I would concentrate on the mids and highs only you will not need special fuses for the bass frequencies nearly as much if at all and try to see if you can find a dealer to send you a selection of different fuses that you need and try them out it could make a real difference depending on your amp and entire system. |