I guess what I need is a minimal amount of money for four fuses to cover one channel of my six. If even a relatively cheaper fuse makes a difference, I could go to more expensive ones, but I need four to start. That is $600, now. I would do something else for that money, especially if I liked then and needed 24. I am n9t a fanatic, as indicated by my use of decades old amps.
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mrdecibel Good advice; however, for me I wonder if resonance is an issue when my speakers are not in the room with my electronics or sources. It can't hurt to try. BTW, everyone: An ohmmeter on the two fuse clamps, and some turning of the fuses will absolutely alert you to any connection issues. If the meter does not move when spinning/turning the fuses, and remains on 1, all is good in that respect.
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I did not find Georgie to be so demeaning. I agree with him, and have already done what he suggested, more tahn once over the years. For other skeptics, google, The Skeptic magazine's article, Audiophoolery. One of my favorite heretical statements in it concerns burn in time: Why do salespeople recommend three months for a componentsto burn in? 90 days is how long your credit card company gives you to get a refund for a scam. I only ask because Paul of PS Audio said he heard a difference. My other issue is that I do not have immense surges of power, because the Apollo Moon Mission rocket scientist who designed, manufactured, and service my electronics uses a NASA computer chip to regulate the four 26,000 mf NASA caps per channel as they fill. This might preclude the necessity of better power cords or fuses. The amps will play at medium volumes for a minute or more, after the NASA breakers are turned off. There does not seem to be a needed for a rush of power for immense surges. Anyone???
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millercarbon I appreciate all replies, but to millercarbon: What part of, I don't want to buy 24 $150 fuses to see if they work did you not get?
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The main reason I have been such a fuse skeptic is that I assumed the fuses were not in the audio path. The ones in my amps certainly do not seem to be. I did used to use in line speaker wire fuses for my Phase Linear 400 powered Advents, but that was nearly 50 years ago. The NASA Apollo circuit breakers I mentioned are really only used as power switches. They are really robust. I do agree, right or wrong for now, that the bass should be least affected.
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willcycle. Thanks. Please see above post.
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theaudiotweak2 Good Point! BUT! How would a fuse help curb vibrations? I did notice that my newer amp of the same model (17 years difference) did use heavier metal all all around. A couple of resistors per channel were changed, too, but Julius had already sent me the upgraded pair, when he modded my one blown channel that I sent him. The actual problem turned out to be a bad XLR adapter. DOH!
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cal91 Please see above post. I am done, unless challenged, and probably then, too!Challenges should be about overbuilt amps with regulated power supplies; otherwise, they are not relevate to my argument and experience.
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mrdecible I am curious? Since my electronics are in a different room from my speakers and subs, wouldn't the vibration argument be irrelevant for me?
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audioman58 Did I understand that it takes you many, many hours to hear the difference? I am certainly glad I was a psychologist.
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cal9127 I am not instigating, per se, but I was looking for a spontaneous answer (just received from willcycle), that for the method I had used to determine that on my amps, which have one computer chip per channel that regulates the power supply, to finally satisfy my curiosity, while confirming what I thought was true, which is: If you have a power supply that is designed with a lot of overkill, and this supply is highly regulated by (only) limiting current to the filter caps which are much larger than necessary, fuses make no difference whatsoever. Thanks to Paul from PS Audio, who inadvertently made me able to figure this out, when in one of his videos, he said that we should not turn our amps off, because of the heavy surge of electricity that floods the system and creates electronic wear. My amps do not do that! Thanks Paul! For my amps, which have a 500 watt transformer and 4 26,000 mf filter caps per channel, fancy fuses (tested by shorting the fuse blocks) do not matter at all. I am just surprised that his amps do not have this design feature. COMPARISON: An early Bryston 200 wpc amp has two 4000 mf filter caps per channel. My amps are 125 wpc (@ 8 ohms; 250 @ 4; 400 @ 2), with six and a half times that, AND have a totally regulated power supply. For now, I will state that I have seen no indication that fuses matter on a well designed amp. FYI, my Bryston did sound a bit better at loud volumes with the fuse blocks shorted. It also drops a lot of bass at high volumes. The Audires do not, except for one I bought used that had the filter caps changed to 12000 mf x 4 per channel, instead of 26,000 mf. Audire did eventually make better amps than mine, but mostly by at least doubling my 6 output transistors per channel. They were 100 wpc, class A, and 200 wpc, A/B, in the same chassis. Their power supply is the same (Except for an early version that used the Audire 100 wpc amp's single 1000 watt transformer).
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audio2system Thanks to all for replies. The only reason I am considering fuses, is that Paul from PS Audio, suddenly came out with his take, and supposed surprise, that they sounded better. Of course, that might just be part of his sales pitch, since he mentions using them now in his amps,etc. If hey are not in the audio path, I am totally skeptical again, especially for my old amps with chip-regulated power supplies. Only one chip per channel, and all it does is meter the electrons from the transformer to the great big filter caps.
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lalitk It is called break-in. You have to listen until you block out the bad stuff and hear the good stuff. This includes all break-in, as far as I am concerned. Our ears and brain adjust. I have two very good systems. It used to take me a bit to hear accept the lesser system, but I had owned if for many decades. After years of comparison, I now know what to expect in advance, and do not get critical over either system. I even accept XM radios flaws, because, it breaks in, too! Especially after I learned what to expect. Now those electronics take no time to sound good enough to listen to my jazz station. They break in so fast now that we are friends.
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nonoise I was afraid someone would take this in the wrong way. Now we know. My only point it that certain things point toward a master status as far as image and beliefs. I could have used a rose tattoo, but I did not know what that signified. Maybe a peace symbol would have worked as well, but that is not thrust violently around us like Nazi-Racists fighting to overtake the government, making that a really good example for me. Of course, a zizzag rolling papers tattoo would have worked, had I thought of it.
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ritamacaw Maybe we should tout a gooey, flexible liquid to pour into the amps to damp them. We can give a lifetime warranty that we can remove it, if needed, and then file bankruptcy.
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What gave me the rubbery amp filler idea was my 1969 500 Kawasaki triple, the first bike with an electronic ignition. That beast really vibrated, so it was filled with tar looking goo.
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lemonhaze Is that as good as purple haze? Seriously, why do people here argue about things they "KNOW" to be true? How anal is that? I personally would never bypass fuses. It is asking for trouble. Otherwise, your answer is great. I will return to my argument concerning power cords, as it relate to fuses: What kind of a crappy designer would spend thousands, or more, designing an amp and use crap fuses and power cords that diminish the sound of his accomplishment? Is he so certain of his design flaws that he wants to hide his accomplishment?
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Wow! no wonder some of you need better fuses, with one per piece of electronics. How is that even possible? One per channel would seem to be a minimum, which I hope you actually mean. My amps have 4 each, two per isolated channel, for a mere 125 wpc each. (250 wpc @ 4 ohms; 400 wpc @ 2 ohms).
With a fuse on each side of each low side circuit (i.e. 2 per channel), and each channel designed with 4 x 26,000 mf of filter capacitance, it seems there should be much less stress per fuse. Also, there is one computer chip per channel, which regulates each channel's power supply (500 watt transformer and 4 x 26,000 filter caps per channel). This must stress the 110 volt circuit much less than cheap systems that allow all the current to rush in at once, and especially those that are designed to have the outputs work hard to suck the power from a small power supply, rather than just throttle the signal from a big one. I know this regulation system works, because when I had a 15 amp circuit breaker (Now 30), we tested it by using a power strip to turn on three amps at once (potential 4500 watts at turn on without regulation). The breaker did not trip. er. Two (unregulated) Audire Model 2's, or two Phase Linear 400's did.
FYI, house breakers trip at a continuous 75% of their rating, so a 15 amp one blows around 11 amps. My pair of old (Unregulated) Audire Model 2's drew up to 1500 watts each at turn on, or 3000/110 volts equals 27 instantaneous amps. This must be hard on cheap fuses. Since each amp had one fuse, I could see how a really good one could help?
My main amps run much cooler than my Bryston, or Phase Linear, or my ancient Audire Model 2's. In fact, in a test, the upper amp Bryston heated up the amp below it, even with a 2 inch riser between them.
This large and regulated power supply system showed no discernible improvement when we tested it with shorted fuse blocks, rather than the standard fuses. The Bryston; maybe. Model 2 and Phase Linear: YES! They improved somewhat... maybe?
Does that sound reasonable to you engineers? Can your super fuses actually pass current better than a straight wire?
If so, please explain; otherwise, please google "Vleblen Effect" or "HYDROX (vs OREO) Effect". or "Veblen Diamonds Ferrari".
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Thank You for the correction. I had meant to look that up before posting, and forgot.
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I had even previously posted that 15 and 20 amp breakers trip at 12 and 16 amps, but my approaching senility won out.
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