interesting perspective from uncle paul, which i tend to agree with... worth a watch, germane to this thread
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@mrdecibel The full quote, attributed to John Farlowe is: "I want to know why the musicians are on stage, not where". It is the tag line of member matthais (of WhatsBestForum) Cheers. - David.
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Some people have lost sight as to " what is it to be an audiophile " ? Anyone spending any amount of money to achieve greater detail retrieval from our recordings, ime, makes one an audiophile. Now, there are levels that people take, and it mostly has to do with the $ amount one can afford. I have heard many many systems over the years, and some of the most expensive I have heard, fall short of my listening preferences and personal criteria, which cannot be ignored. We are all different, and with time, we all seek specifics in what we want our recorded music to sound like. I think the area with listeners that confuses me with this hobby ( I worked with many listeners throughout the years ), are those that actually listen to music ( 1st and foremost ), and those that are more interested in listening to the equipment, which we are all guilty of to some extent. Another A’gon member brought to my attention on another thread, a very interesting statement by a WBF member, describing was I was trying to say on this other thread...This statement was ( not word for word )" I want to hear WHAT the musicians are doing on the stage / studio / environment ". For over 50 years, this has always been my mission. And keep in mind, as I have said many times before, we are at the mercy of the " recordings ". My best, and Enjoy ! Always, MrD. |
the inquiry was simply asking the AG community if this amplifier "makes the cut" as a worthy part of discriminating audio and music lovers. The term "audiophile" was used assuming that we would understand its context, not try to define or re-define the meaning. Given the huge press and audiophile community buzz initially and following launch, the questions become is it still worthy? Did it meet expectations? why or why not? nothing more nothing less. Given my experiences with it the answer is an undeniable yes but it needs the right preamp to shine. Peace. |
completely agree seems to me threads like this asking about whether xyz is audiophile gear or audiophile level is much more about defining that word, as opposed to whatever unit is being debated in a properly configured system there is no doubt that the amp in question can greatly please the listener and produce a high level of sound quality |
I recently heard @lancelock's system. Really nice sonics driven by a low power tube LTA amp and Backert preamp. Since none of this equipment is a live performance, despite much inflated hyperbole about equipment getting u there, listen and experiment with different configurations till u find the facsimile version of the live performance that u are happiest with. I have heard many pleasing systems and none have sounded the same. I have heard multiple systems that I did not care for and they did not sound the same. So, neutral is a sound descriptor that is used frequently to describe systems or components that sound different. I like the interchange of information and even the divergent opinions about certain equipment. In the end, the only thing that matters is do your brain pleasure centers light up when u listen to music. If they do then to hell with the measurements. I ain't listening to measurements nor seeking audio jewelry in my stereo equipment. I wish I could weigh in on the Benchmark amp debate, well at least express a preference, but since I have not heard it I cannot. |
In my experience, the AHB2 is incredible. I can fully change my system based on the DAC and Preamp I choose. This amp knows it's job - to amplify the signal it's given, no more and no less. Right now i'm using a fully restored sansui 9090 as preamp and i'm enjoying music more than I have in years. I've used it with a very neutral, sterile preamp and the music was just that. I've used it with a tube preamp and the sound was excactly what you'd want from tubes. It's a must-have.
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I've had an AHB2 amp for around 6 months. It's a perfect fit with my ancient AR-LST speakers. Owners of this amp may need to experiment with the sensitivity switch to get the best results. The sound from my system with the ABH2 is very much dependent on the source material being played. Records which are not well engineered have nowhere to hide with this amp. For me, the AHB2 is a good combination of relatively low cost and really good performance. No regrets whatsoever. |
When I heard Harbeth with a top end Luxman stack (m900u/c900u) I enjoyed it, but I was thinking this would sound great with my AHB2's. @radioheadokplayer The HPA4 + DAC3B + Meze Empy is also a great combo. I had that for a while and really enjoyed it. |
The AHB2 amp sounds pretty good in my bedroom with Harbeth 7ES3XD speakers but I would not say it is the best product that they make. I also have in same room the dac3 and benchmark hpa4 linestage and headphone amp. The headphone amplifier and dac using balanced cabling are an excellent combination with my slightly warmish headphone ZMF closed ended Verite. As for the same dac and linestage with the amp I found it was very good overall but did not draw me into the music as does the same combo with an EAR 890 tube amp. Ultimately its a subjective exercise depending on your room, associated equipment, and cabling. Its certainly worth an audition imho but for most unlikely to be an amp you passionately love (but for value hard to beat). |
my hifi pal in los angeles loves his ahb2 driving compact 7 es3’s... can attest it is a terrific combination, superior to using a tube amp, and also a nad m33 i have commented on numerous occasions that most if not all harbeths benefit from a clean, pure sounding solid state amp that provides bass control and some additional sparkle and life to the treble response, and the benchmark delivers both attributes... i typically run hegel or pass x (not xa) series into my own harbeths for the same reason... that is where the synergy lies, in my experience - harbeths have a natural warmth and richness of tone, they benefit from an amp that imparts a sense of speed, control and sparkle |
@ricevs is there a class D technology advancement thread; I think I’ve read this before on how GanFET is only one of the first major advancements in upcoming class D. I do want to try this new Peachtree amp and see how disruptive this product truly is. |
I have owned an AHB2 since 2016. I liked it as compared with the Bryston integrated that I had at the time and so I sold the Bryston amp. Since then, I've learned that while it sounds 'good' with any combination of equipment, its performance is very highly dependent on the speakers and cables / interconnects. Keeping speaker cables, power cables and interconnects the same (I don't want to restart THAT holy war), I have heard it sound good but uninspiring as compared with other amps when used with Joseph Audio Pulsars and Pulsar 2 Graphenes, Roksan Darius, and ProAc Response D40Rs. I have also heard it reveal the deepest depths of a soundstage (as far as I know) with Zu Audio Soul Supreme speakers, though those want a subwoofer or two after listening with the D40Rs. To the question of whether or not it is an 'audiophile amp' - I can't say. Perhaps in this crowd I'm not an audiophile as my most expensive piece of gear retailed for $12K (the ProAcs). On the other hand, most of my friends call me an audiophile, given my extensive collection of gear on hand and the longer list of gear that isn't on hand any longer. But who cares? It is a damn good amp for the money. I'll be holding onto mine for a while longer. |
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@avanti1960 try it, if possible, before you sell the XA-25 to be able to compare the two amps. |
Thre are no threads solely about one thing. Audio is incredibly diverse and finding the right component and equipment can be a lifelong journey......so everything is open for discussion on any thread. A couple of people on this thread describe their modest system using the Benchmark amp and DACs and preamps....etc. If I had such a system and someone suggested a simpler cheaper system that was all digital (and I listen to nothing but digital).....I would want to know about it. Some will feel threatened as they just spent money on something and they don't want to investigate other options, are set in their ways, etc.......Everyone has their own experience.....there is no right or wrong. The more options you have presented to you the more you can find what works for you best. If you went to Baskins and Robbins and they only had Vanilla you would be bummed. One thing for sure in life........it is always changing......If you want to keep thinking the same way while everything around you is evolving then you are just putting your head in the sand. It's fun out here......ever exanding possibilities for things and for the souls expression.....love is infinite. |
I thought that this thread was about the Benchmark amp? I think that we took a right turn somewhere. |
Class H is not digital......class D is not digital. I already explained that the digital info is turned into PWM inside the "digital" amp....and then into the swtiching class D output stage. Yes, if you have analog then you need to convert it through a great ADC to make it PCM so the amp will decode it. There are GREAT ADCs out there that do less damage to the sound then a normal preamp and normal amp do. However, most who have a serious record collection will look elsewhere. Most people who own Benchmark amps, etc....do not do analog. I stopped doing analog 32 years ago. Analog is GREAT.....no doubt. Love it.
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There you go......not what I was talking about. The GaN 400 and the GaN1 are completely different animals.....one is analog in with op amps and feedback inside....the other is digital in with no opamps or feedback and not needing a DAC or preamp. Please.....get this information straight. As far as I know there are only 3 companies in the workd making "digital" amps......Technics, Lyngdorf and Peachree......The Peachtree amp was just released and has the most simple pure signal path.....we shall see how it fares as more people listen to it. Please follow the thread on the Gan 1 Beta amp here on Audiogon. |
@ricevs I always thought the class-D was a switching amp and not a digital amp.
^This^ makes it sound like I should not consider using one of these amp if I have a TT and phono stage. Where does the digital come into this ‘digital amp’, which in the Benchmark literature is referred to as “Class-H”?
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A digital amp is a class D amp that takes normal PCM signals and converts it to PWM in software.....then into a class D output stage. Some will just say its a class D amp with a digital input only. However, most of the manufacturers of this type of amp call them digital amps........including Technics and Lyngdorf. How you do the software conversion of PCM to PWM is crucial. Tact was the first company to make such an amp back in the 90s. In their white paper they stated that converting PCM to PWM was inherently non linear.....and that is why it took them so long to do the software. We now have much greater computing power and people have been writing audiophile code for years......but there is always room for improvement. Because it converts the digits directly to PWM (analog) then there is no need for a "normal" dac......and, if you use excellent digital attenuation......no need for preamp or other kinds of analog volume controls. You might call it a "power dac". Tact actually lowered the output power voltage to reduce the gain in their amp they made in the 90s. Now we have seriously good digital attenuation and we now work with higher bits then back then. |
What is a digital amp @ricevs ? Which digit is that amp using? |
The Benchmark amp has been proven over time. It is certainly a reference at its price point......BUT.....a big butt.....he he.....we like big butts....well, I do. What if the Peachtree GaN 1 amp ($2000 with 30 day money back) driven from an IFI Zen Stream (with upgraded linear power supply) is better?....... Wouldn’t it be cool if it sounds much better? Or do you have to have a DAC, Preamp, amp and analog cables? Do you want the best sound? What if this thing is it?!? It has already beat a Holo DAC May KTE with Holo Serene preamp with mono block Kinki B7 amps (see thread here on audiogon). If this GaN 1 amp is the real deal (and so far all reviews are raves)....then there will be a lot of happy people spending way less money to get better sound.......and it weighs 11 lbs!!!!!! 200 watts a channel. Of course, there will be even better digital amps available down the line. Volume control is in the digital domain.....so the better the digital volume control and the better the streamer....the better the sound. The Bluesound does not sound as good as the $400 IFI Zen Stream (according to many). The $2400 Lumin U1 has LEEDH digital volume control (totally lossless). I know, I am repeating myself here......but usually we have to hear something several times before it sinks in. This technology to me seems like its revolutionary......better sound for less. |
As a wannabe audiophile, my path is iFi Zen Stream, Benchmark Dac3L, AH2B, Klipsch Cornwalls. My plan is to get the blackest background, the best speed, most uncolored amplification, sort out how to get the Cornwalls to play their best with positioning and room treatments, and then find the preamp, if necessary, that puts it all together for my ear. I do not have the time or energy to go through numerous permutations of equipment to find my sound. Wish me luck. |
Thanks to all replies, very interesting. It does seem that this amplifier has staying power. I heard it again at AXPONA this year driving some Aretai stand mount speakers. Very punchy and clear. I am probably going to try one. While I love the sound of my Pass XA25 it is not as transparent as it was billed and at times sounds unnaturally warm and polished. It took over a year for the XA25 to sound like this as it burned in. Just trying to decide on two or one. Most likely one for starters. |
I have a single AHB2 with the HPA4 and Dac 3B in powering Harbeth P3’s in a small family room-Phenomenal. I also have a Belles Aria with a Dac 3B powering Harbeth P3’s in another small room-Phenomenal. Point is, the AHB2 is an amazing amp but it obviously has less coloration than other amps. Also different recordings, different room acoustics matter greatly. I would never let go of my AHB2 because when I am listening to the right type of music and the right type of recording it just can’t be beat. With other types of music and other types of recordings I change rooms. Having said all that I don’t know that if I had room or the budget for one amp that it would be the winner. I think there are other amps out there that may perform better as “jack of all trades” amps. |
It measures really good, offers good value, and Benchmark is big in pro audio market so that means audiophiles will tend to discount it compared to whatever other “audiophile” amp it may be that manages to catch their ear or eye for whatever reason. So if you want to buy objectively check out Benchmark. Otherwise have at it and take your pick for whatever reasons that might turn you on. It’s a free country. Personally I consider it an “audiophile” amp. No objective reason to consider it anything else. It’s just semantics anyhoo. |
@holmz I have more than a few amps and I would have to put the AHB2s back in my system to give you more up to date impressions. But here are a couple of things. I tend to do most of my listening to jazz. A large amount of piano. A large amount of ECM label. This lends itself to a quiet distortion-free amp. I do occasionally listen to rock and have had no issues that I can recall. But one thing I should note is that there are LEDs on the front of the AHB2 which will let you know if the amp is clipping. I have not had any issues with clipping. I would say that if you are looking for an amp to color your sound, these are not the amps for you. But if you are looking for clean detail and all the other audiophile amp characteristics, then this amp is a contender. |
Do you think so @kingbarbuda ? I find low distortion gear quiet, and others have statements like, “it lacks punch”, “lacks weight”, sounds anemic or thin. I know my tube seems better for TV and rock in Ultra Linear, and in Triode seem thinner/leaner/quieter, with more space between things.
This is probably mostly BS, but how I think of our the hearing work as in that we get direction from the delay between our ears and other queues. So that gives and azimuth direction.The if the drummer is off to the right and close to the back of the stage, we get a quick echo off the back wall, with the side wall echo maybe be a little further delayed. Then in our mind we have a model of where the instrument must be at to make the delays all comport with the reality of what we hear.
Assuming that is not total BS, then what happens when we have IMD? I am assuming that it is more locations and that this fills the sound stage with the IMD products filling some of the blank space in a spatial sense. Maybe it is not happening that way, but higher distortion does seem fuller. And I cannot conjure up a hypothesis of why the lower distortion gear seems to be more lean in a spatial sense… But it seems that the lower distortion is less exciting, less full, more austere and quieter. So it is great on some stuff and maybe not so good for say, rock and big band music. it would be interesting to know with the Krell person, and others, whether they find the ABH2 better for some genres of music than others… or of there is no correlation?? |
I totally agree with that comment with certain speakers. In fact, I bought lancelocks AHB2. The CODA #16 sound a lot like the AHB2 on top but it has grunt. That 150 watt CODA #16 is more powerful sounding than my 400 or 500 watt AHB2 monos. Though with a proper speaker match the AHB2 is great. That comment about the AHB2 owners never hearing or owned $10K+ amps is not true in my case or in the case of some folks I have conversed with online. The great thing about the AHB2 is that it should not be an amp that is a mystery. It is rather low cost and with a 30-day, home trial. If it does not work for you then you move on. The guy that bought my KRELL Duo 175XD (a $11K amp) had the AHB2 with Harbeth speakers (a great pairing in my opinion). He was amazed at what he heard. However, after a couple of weeks he felt he was listening to the amp and not the music. It was too revealing for him. He easily sold the AHB2 and bought my KRELL. He loves my KRELL so far. Though I would say the KRELL is sufficiently revealing and is just much warmer.
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@kijanki In the Paul Seydor review you posted, I think he was using subtlety to mock audiophiles and not denegrate the AHB2. He essentially was suggesting that audiophiles at least sometimes seem to be more interested in playing around with gear and swapping things out and they wouldn’t be interested in the AHB2 which produces clean minimalist distortion sonic accuracy which audiophiles SHOULD want. He was being sarcastic. I own a pair of AHB2 and use them as monoblocks with my Magico A3s and REL T/9i subs. They perform well and as advertised. But this is in the context of my system and room. So others experience may be different. |
You are absolutely correct (but I’m not sure that helps the person with OCD sleep better at night 😉). Have heard it and fixed it numerous times. It’s crazy what audio improvements can be heard from just reheating solder joints sometimes (even ones that are functional). It definitely helps if you know some basic electronics, and know how to solder, while partaking in this audio hobby.
...or, as long as it sounds great to you, it must sound great to the rest of us. Audio reproduction has always been, and will always be, subjective. What sounds good to you, may not sound good to me, and vice versa. It’s as simple as that. |
