@shtinkydog There is no other new tube integrated with the features of the Rogue at the 3 grand price point! @glennewdick Why give a list of stuff that he is not interested in?
no. i owned a cm ii for almost 3 years and all it did was sound transparent, smooth, refined, dynamic, throw a huge sound stage, and have some ballz. paired with harbeth c7es3 it smoked some much more expensive competition and made for a world class combo.
The only real competition if you can stretch your budget is the least expensive accuphase of luxman integrated amplifiers but they would both be slightly more than 3000 but less than 4000.
I used to have the 60wpc primaluna monos in a much smaller room than what I have now. I had them paired with APM-1s. That was a long time ago. I don’t know if 60 watts will be enough now, let alone 20 watts that the Raven has to offer. I’m trying to get the most tube power out of 1 unit, since I do miss the sweetness of tubes, but not go over $3k. The units suggested look good, I just don't know if they'll work for me.
I've owned both a Rogue Cronus and a Raven Audio Blackhawk, though not at the same time. For me, the Raven is a much more musical, better built piece of gear and you get exceptional customer service from Raven (never had a reason to ask for help from Rogue.) At the time I owned the Cronus I also had an AES/Cary AE-25 amp and matching AE-3 preamp and it also sounded clearly better than the Cronus with the Merlin speakers I had at the time.
FWIW, I replaced a 100wpc Rogue Sphinx with a 20wpc Raven Blackhawk, and the Blackhawk plays as loudly with the volume at 10-11 o'clock as the Rogue did.
i was just reading the "stuff" on the raven website. they're claiming their 20wpc amps are the equivalent of a high quality 100wpc solid state amp. that's quite the claim.
I've used two pair of speakers with the Raven Blackhawk LE, Nola Boxer S1s that are 90 dB and currently the Reference 3A di Capo i. The di Capos are advertised as being 92 dB but SoundStage measured them at 89 dB.
The Raven will easily drive either to louder levels than I would ever want in my living room.
shtinkydog -- Yes, 20 watts per channel is more than enough. I didn't miss anything about the Rogue. It's a fine amp but just not quite as good as a couple other tube amps I've had and I found the way the bias adjustments were implemented to be sorta fiddly. In comparison, having well-implemented auto-bias on the Raven is nice.
i owned a raven audio blackhawk. loved the sound, it came stock with nos svet winged c power tubes and a mixture of quality nos small signal tubes which had a big impact on SQ. the current ravens use different power and small signal tubes. i sold it and replaced with a rogue cronus magnum ii to increase the impact and scale driving larger box british monitors. mission accomplished, dynamics and bass were increased noticeably. judicious small signal tube upgrades brought the SQ close to that of the Ravens. i would bet the sound quality today is closer out of the box. the ravens would sound more alive with higher efficiency speakers but that was not my case.
I haven't pulled the trigger on anything yet. I had to stop looking/researching for a while. So it looks like its down to the Cronus and the Raven. My JBLs are 92db. Maybe the Raven..
There is more to the choice than just the power differential.
There is more to the need for power than just the sensitivity spec.
The sonic difference between these amplifiers, as it relates to ones own preferences as heard driving ones speakers needs be considered.
To me the post by avanti1960 seems most useful. These amps will impose a different sonic character to your speakers. The sound character of each can be somewhat adjusted with tube rolling.
For my 12 x 15' room driving my Tannoy Sterlings having a 91B sensitivity and a fairly flat 8 ohm impedance( not below 5 ohms) I may enjoy the possible additional refinement offered Raven more. Driving my Esoteric MG10s having a sensitivity of 87dB and a 6 ohm impedance (dropping to 3.5 ohms) I might prefer the additional drive offered by the Rogue.
I understand that you have moved to a larger room. Likely larger than my own.
We have both KT 120 or KT 77 with Rogue Cronus Mag III with the Gold Lion KT 77 in triode offers gorgeous fineness for simpler 2 way load applications. What if you need a bit more grip ? KT 88 or 120s for multi driver loudspeakers We find this Latest CM MK III design amp very versatile,adaptable, and satisfying. Best JohnnyR
+3 Black Ice Audio F 35 Integrated. Especially with KT 150’s. Approximately 3K MSRP with the KT 150’s , however Black Ice will be raising all it’s prices in a few weeks to a month, so the aforementioned F35 with KT 150’s will be around 3500.00, or more.
Cost of parts for all manufacturers is sky rocketing at the moment, as well as is the supply chain ( slow n limited), and increased shipping costs are driving up costs.....
I am currently using a F 35 and it’s unquestionably an over achiever at it’s price point, excellent build quality, and for the most part, very good parts selection, especially at the current pricing of this unit, and even after the price increase... Cheers.....
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