Does an Audioquest Niagra 1200 limit amplifier dynamics?

markiew - where you indicate…

The 1200 is OK, but as above, the Puritan PSM156 is much better, its certainly better than the Niagara 3000

what benefit from the PSM156 did you get over the AQ3000?

Didn't read any above posts. From a pure understanding of physics, No. No need to impede voltage or amperage = power to a power amp ever!  Filter your source. Not your power. Your source gets amplified, which amplifies the noise!  All good power amps have noise reduction by design. In fact, your power amp was designed to function on the typical impedance of your ac mains. How can another circuit in from of that improve your AC feed. ANY other circuit in front of your amp will increase impedance. It is impossible that it can reduce impedance based on physics, Come on Man, really? You ask this question?   Don't be daft my friend. I'm not British but I watch British TV.   Those who place a power supply "conditioner" in front of their power amps likely a. never studied physics in college, b. never passed physics in college or c. never went to college or cared to understand physics. Sorry if this offends anyone, but this is my truth. Peace. 

I can’t speak to the Niagara 1200 directly as I have a Niagara 7000. The way my dedicated power circuit is run, I can either power my ARC Ref75SE from the high current outlets of the N7K or the from the same duplex wall outlet as the N7K. There are no downsides and significant upsides of powering the amp from the Niagara 7000. Noise floor decreases and dynamics improve, whether due to the improved noise floor or because the dynamics actually improve or both. There is absolutely no compromise powering the amp from the Niagara 7000’s high current outlets. While not a direct answer, hopefully this data point is useful in some way.

I agree with @carlsbad regarding conditioners (at least the 1200) reduces the rapid current changes which limits the amp. I unplugged my Atoll IN300 from the 1200 and plugged it directly to the wall and my amp came alive again. I’m not saying the 1200 is not a nice conditioner, it’s just not for me. By the way, I have one if anyone wants to buy it. 🤪

@ghasley

Not all power "conditioners" are created equal nor are any two home/power delivery situations identical so there is no universal answer to your question. It also depends on the amp (class A or A/B)

Exactly! And explains vastly different outcomes being reported here. It depends.

Charles 

Email Aq & ask garth powell if you want the accurate answer.

Not all power "conditioners" are created equal nor are any two home/power delivery situations identical so there is no universal answer to your question. It also depends on the amp (class A or A/B). I have a Niagara 1200 in one system and I notice no difference with the amp plugged in to the 1200 vs amp plugged directly in to the wall. Therefore, you could surmise that it "does no harm" or that it does nothing at all.

I have had a few (including the president of Earthquake Joseph Sahyoun directly) of different amp manufacturers (Simaudio, Bel Canto), tell me go directly to the outlet and bypass power conditioners with an amp. I had a few lengthy conversations with Joseph or Earthquake regarding this very thing and he was absolutely ADAMANT about never ever plugging his amp into any power conditioner.

Once I unplugged my Simaudio Titan from my Furman Elite 20pfI and went direct to the outlet I noticed immediate improvements! It was crazy actually how much clearer and livelier the sound becamse. This was after reaching out to Sim directly about this. That's good enough for me...

I have the Puritan 156 and the Isotek Sigmas EVO3, and while the Isotek is good, the Puritan is better (and less expensive).

I just completed a test with my Niagara 1200. I did not detect a difference in the quality of music when I connected my Luxman 590 AX II Integrated into the Niagara 1200 High Current outlets vs the other outlets on the Niagara 1200, vs my dedicated 20 amp wall outlet. I have not owned or auditioned it but I agree with markiew ((above), the Puritan Audio PSM 156 could be the answer to several issues that others are having.

@j-wall Very helpful. I could get the PS Audio on trial, but it would be nice to measure first before laying down thousands. 

I just bought the Niagara 1200 , My art audio concierto amp is connected on the high current section, Dynamics and noise floor improve. In my system I don’t sense the power is  affected at all.

The 1200 is OK, but as above, the Puritan PSM156 is much better, its certainly better than the Niagara 3000

@hilde45 my PS Audio P10 would show me the oscilloscope on its screen to show how much distortion was on the line. I had a low noise, but it still made my system sound cleaner. I moved to a Shunyata Denali and it's even better, but I did lose the oscilloscope which was always fun to check out what harm fans, air conditioners and vacuuming did to the line. 

My Niagara 1200 resulted in a noticeable improvement in noise floor reduction and increase in inner detail while not limiting dynamics at all, replacing earlier generation PS Audio gear. Big thumbs up.

@audiotroy You answered a different question than the one I asked. I asked about how a consumer could measure the existing noise on their home line and you posted that you had tested many conditioners and have dedicated lines.

You cited me in your post and then posted something tangential -- which also helps you sell power conditioners. My question asks how one can test if they need to buy anything at all.

To put it another way, your post adds "noise" to this conversation.

Yep. Glad to see people finally asking this question.

Nothing to do witht the abiltiy of the filter to "clean up" power.  It limits rapid current changes which limits the amp.  

Anybody who has one should plug their amp directly into the wall for an immediate, enjoyable experience.

Jerry

I don't know the answer to your question but I do know that the answer can vary for each individual person's system, power set up in your home, and the AC power in your area and entering your home.

My Bryston Bit 15 seems to do no harm...a huge Piltron transformer.

Remove all the power conditioners, get your electrical panel and dedicated lines working instead. Those Niagara's definitely limit the potential of your system when you have clean power. 

However power conditioners served me well when I didn't have a dedicated electrical box and lines. Conditioners solve a problem that shouldn't exist to begin with.

I used to have the Shunyata Hydra and indeed was limiting the dynamics. I tried the Niagra 3000 and noticed a difference immediately, I was able to trade the Shunyata and pay the additional cost of the Niagra.

My Niagara definitely does not smooth over the sound in my system. If anything, it lowered the noise floor to where bad recordings still sound bad but good recordings sound even better. 

All the best,
Nonoise

My AQ1200 does not seem to limit my Pass X260’s. I do feel the overall system sounds better with the 1200 than without. 

I have a AQ Niagara 1200 and think it’s a nice conditioner. In my system, the 1200 makes everything sound good and I think this is due to it being over filtered. So, this is the question, do you want a conditioner that makes everything sound good or do you want a more revealing conditioner that identifies the true characteristics of a recording. I bought an Equi=Core 1800 MKIII which is a balanced conditioner and believe it reveals the true sound of individual recordings. If the recording is bad, the Equi=Core will let me know. But if the recording is excellent, you can hear every instrument and vocal as if you were there. It also depends on your entire system and the synergy between your components. I recommend going to your hi-fi dealer and having them let you take a 1200 home for the weekend to find out how it meshes with your system and if you like it or not. 

When it comes to amps, I plug into the wall directly. But, I do have a whole house surge protector.

The AQ Niagra 1200 does offer high output plugs for amps, and since it was designed with Garth Powell, I would expect it to perform well.

I use the 1200 for my front end, and love it.

PM Johnny Rutan (audioconnection), he sells Vandy, Belles and AQ, and can give you the best info., and not try to sell you something.

Bob

Bob

"How can I estimate or measure the factors in my electrical setup that are either causing audible problems or impeding audible improvements -- if any?"

@hilde45 +1

Another fine power condition is the Puritan PSM 156 and Core Power Tecnology.  I have both and they are excellent.

My experience was the same as no noise and agree with his post completely

look at isotek far better sounding then aq

hilde we have tested many power conditioners we use dedicated lines and a good conditioner has produced audible improvements over wall power

Dave and Troy

Audio intellect NJ

isotek audio Magic and audience dealers

For me, this question is always confounded by the fundamental question, "How noisy is my electrical line to begin with?"

The audiophile hobby is full of solutions -- some of the solutions address big, audible problems, some solve smaller problems, and some solve non-problems.

Unless I know whether I have a genuine problem, any solution proposed may do more harm than good. It's a matter of know the underlying situation.

So, to my mind, your question is more accurately rendered as,

"How can I estimate or measure the factors in my electrical setup that are either causing audible problems or impeding audible improvements -- if any?"

Mine doesn't. Everything just got cleaner and more relaxed sounding. I live in an old apartment so I compete with the draw among 30 tenants and the Niagara made that magical night listening into an all day affair.

All the best,
Nonoise