Do you trust your ears more than measurements?

However in the end the ears have it.

Of course.

I measure how much salt I put into a recipe. 

Then I taste it. 

If needed, a bit more salt.

If it tastes good, I write down how much salt went into the recipe for next time I make it.

Measure-taste-measure-taste. Memorialize.

Of course it ends with tasting. How could it not? ;-)

The ears and listening rule OUR system room...Not audio....

Acoustics and psycho-acoustics rule audio...

Why did i say that ?

Because non trained ears in acoustic cannot understand their own limitation... Buying 40 amplifiers is not a ears training and it is even not knowledge, it is only a seller expertise.... And i am not a seller ... And electrical measures of gear design is only a limited set of measures and it is not enough... Physical and acoustical set of measures matter even more...

The "trained" ears rule audio and trained ears come from acoustic basic concepts and experiments...

If you cannot control timbre, imaging, soundstage and immersion in your room you cannot know what these interacting concepts means working together...

This is why people in audio forum do what most reviewers do: they sell gear upgrade as main solutions...

This is not knowledge sorry. It is marketing.

Then trusting more his ears than necessary  experiments is preposterous and counter productive...

And trusting electrical measures only over anything else and over his ears is blind ignorance...

  I concur that I found Hilde comment interesting.  It's always been the ears for me but there is nothing wrong with experimentation and if measurements facilitate that, why not?  However in the end the ears have it.

It is very revelatory to observe that people conflate electrical measurement with physical acoustic measurements and dont even know about psycho-acoustics measurements...

Ignorance rule ...😁

@benanders Perfect response to all caps shouting. 

Time to have a real conversation.  I see a lot of comments about placebo. I hear a lot of comments that cables can’t make differences and components that are a certain price are a waste of money.  I try to comment on what I have heard. I can’t tell the next man that what he is or is not hearing.  I think there is a lot of I know more than you in our hobby.  I wouldn’t not comment on people systems that I haven’t heard. I think it’s arrogant to think that those that don’t agree with you about how THEIR SYSTEM SOUNDS THAT THEY HAVE NEVER HEARD! 

I’m not dissing measurements.  They are not that important to me as what my ears hear.  The joy the music brings.  My ears tell depth width detail soundstage and musicality. They are what I depend on the most. 

Apples and Oranges discussion. Measurements and listening are too often mixed up and made into some silly arguments that I've seen. Listening is really all that matters, to most consumers, not all. Measurements however can indicate if a piece of gear is capable of doing what it is said to be capable of. Both can be good tools for evaluation, but one does not replace the other. People get all wound up about the sites that perform measurements, for no good reason usually. Measurements show the undeniable capabilities of devices without bias. If a device in testing cannot properly reproduce tones, waves, signals, etc, that device may still sound great to the humans. Listening matters, because the goal is good sound. Measurements and listening do not replace each other. They should both be used to evaluate. 

Sad this has to be asked. Those trading measurements for clicks are misleading many.

False dichotomy.

I use my ears, 100%...
I have no idea how it measures. Sure sounds good, though.

If you’re happy, you’re happy. That doesn’t mean it can’t sound better. But if you’re happy not knowing that, good for you. Wallow in contentment! Enjoy!

Ones ears are a far more sensitive instrument than all of the commonly used measurements / charts taken together by an enormous amount. Trained ears / mind is an order of magnitude more sensitive.
So 100% ears.
I use my ears always. I’m in it to enjoy my music.

People who measure their rooms are in it to enjoy the music, too.

Ears are sensitive. But room acoustics are complex -- too complex for ears to contend with. No one surveys a field accurately by just "eyeballing it." Better measurements can lead to results -- results that our very sensitive ears can hear.

Is it too much of a bother to measure? Then just say that. But the supposition that "ears are enough" is just false.

You can listen without measuring but when time comes to figure out what’s wrong or could be made better you can only guess and the devil is always in the details....If you haven’t measured your room, you are working with a huge handicap. I suspect many would be off the hifi merry go round a lot faster once they come to the realization that it’s largely room acoustics they hear so it’s important to know what those are in order to be able to cut to the chase. Throwing more money at the problem alone is not a very effective way to fix what’s broken in most cases.

Exactly right. Of course, many on this thread sound content. If things sound good enough, then leave it alone. But I suspect the urge to bash measurement -- in conjuction with hearing -- is borne of a desire not to want to go there.

Audio is subjective.

But that statement is subjective, too, right? ;-)

When I read the subject line my initial response was I trust my ears.  Then I read @hilde45 comment and I reconsidered.  I trust my ears and not  strictly measurements.  However, listening and then taking measurements in my room allowed me to make changes so things sound even better.  I agree measurements cannot possibly tell the entire story or even most of it, but in room measurements can be revelatory.  They have allowed me to make changes to something that, initially, was pleasing and make it better.

As an example of the thing we must learn, at the price of loosing money and wasting our time; i just listened to an interesting video of Jay , a high end reviewer here and dealer, an honest dude, but he learned after spending money on hundreds of amplifiers and speakers ( high end products) he just learned very recently that room acoustic matter as much as any gear if not more at the end...😁

I am sure he will learn soon why all stereo system are flawed and how to cure it ... But it is another story...😊

Then spare your money and time , more than just room acoustic, read and study acoustics articles and psychoacoustics research basics, among other very basic mechanical and electrical factors, and suspend any upgrading expanse, try some experiments and think again instead of throwing money at the race of upgrading... Learn how to embed ANY system with all kind of measures and some acoustic experiments and perhaps as myself you will be surprized by the results...

My hobby is now listening music not a foolish upgrading race or a frustrated audio experience... A relatively low cost system ( we dont all have the same budget for sure) well chosen and well embed can give minimal acoustical satisfaction passed a minimal threshold... So much so, it does not appear as a stopgap but as the first level of audiophile experience... sound ectasy begin here ... No need to invest much money at all cost if you learn how to do it right to begin with...

The good news is it does not takes so much money...

The bad news is it ask for studies and times...

But being creative is more fun than giving your hard won money...

If you are without short budget and with a deep pocket, forget my post, and buy your dream high cost system plug it on the wall and called it audiophile TOP experience with the price tags to prove it for sure...😊

After all we are all in our own world and with our own needs...

Then to answer the OP , his question makes not much sense because we must trust our ears for sure but we must train our ears too than we must experiments with all kind of measures and varying parameters...

Opposing hearing and measuring is stupid.... We must correlate the two in a learning cycle... If we want to UNDERSTAND with our ears and if we want to hears with our brain working...

100% ears +100% mechanical ,electrical and acoustical measures = psychoacoustics intelligence and mature audio experience in a dynamic process going from the ears to the parameters in a cycle which is called : optimization of a system in a room for my specific ears ... ( ideally we must measures also our Inner ears and the HTRF factor)

Anything else is "branded name" marketing promotion for our favorite piece of gear or worst : price tag audiophile superstition called "my taste" or worst called "my experience" ... 😁...

I use my ears always.  I’m in it to enjoy my music. I dilly around with speaker placement a little. I get my gear in place and make sure it’s properly cabled and and set up and I’m happy. I’m not in it for a science project. I’m in it for the joy of the music. 

Ones ears are a far more sensitive instrument than all of the commonly used measurements / charts taken together by an enormous amount. Trained ears / mind is an order of magnitude more sensitive. 
 

So 100% ears.
 

There may be some top high end audio designers that are able to tell what something will sound like with many measurements of various variables.. after decades of experience. But for those that want to assemble a system, learning about sound and training your ears by listening is the only reasonable approach.

Funny how ignorant people may be because they are lazy or lack the time and energy necessary to learn ...😁

Measurements are not all about mere  electrical factors of gear design by the way ...

They can be physical mechanical measures...

They can be acoustical measures with various parameters...

They can be psychoacoustics measures...

Then claiming all is subjective impression is pure ignorance...Sorry...

Then claiming that all is objective measures  most of the times with few electrical measures specs as in ASR forums about a piece of gear ISOLATED from all other mechanical and acoustical and psychoacoustical  measures if connected to a specific system in a specific  for specific owner specific mearured ears is RIDICULOUS....

All these measures imply a variation of the possible set of parameters which must be correlated to your own specific ears impressions...

Then why people are so dumb and divide themselves in two blind  opposite crowds ? ( it remind me of the Trumpist opposed to the Bidenist )

It is because of the conditioning by marketing power focussing to their selling pitch about   ONE pice of gear to sell  at a times to the gullible reading the price tag as truth ...

What we buy matter less than the way we will embed it by listening in a training process by varying the set of possible mechanical,electrical and acoustical parameters of the system in a specfic chosen room . Period. 😊

Acoustics science rule audio and this include room acoustic as well as psychoacoustics not price tag or electrical design few specs measures confirmed or not... A system synergy cannot be ruled and established  and confirmed  only by few electrical measures, it takes more measures and of different kind,  and it takes our ears to learn the measured and to rule them by chosing the right set FOR US  because i must decide of my room dimensions and speakers types etc ......

I use my ears, 100%.

Every once in a while, I get the bug to change some settings, adjust some parameters, that sort of thing...

Invariably, I tune it back to where it was (or very, very close, anyway).

That leads me to believe I’m pretty much at the limits of my equipment. I’m OK with that.

I have never, ever had anyone who has listened to my system not leave smiling.

I have no idea how it measures. Sure sounds good, though. 😎

Dan Foley from Audio Precision wrote an interesting short article in 2016. A few clips from the article:

• "As he explains, instrumentation noise floor is an overlooked contributor for the reason we are not able to measure a particular audible “distortion,” especially with low sound pressure level (SPL) signals."
• "the reason given as to why a particular audible “distortion” cannot be measured is that the measurement equipment doesn’t have sufficient signal processing capabilities, such as measurement bandwidth or Fast Fourier Transform (FFT) resolution."

article: "Test and Measurement: “I Can Hear It. Why Can’t I Measure It?”"

No sense measuring without listening. So it’s not an either or. You can listen without measuring but when time comes to figure out what’s wrong or could be made better you can only guess and the devil is always in the details. No doubt measurements can only help if used correctly so there is a learning curve to tackle there before one can hope for positive results.

I’ve recently measured all my rooms using Room EQ Wizard freeware and that provides the information needed to make proper adjustments that make a night and day difference in each case. If you haven’t measured your room, you are working with a huge handicap. I suspect many would be off the hifi merry go round a lot faster once they come to the realization that it’s largely room acoustics they hear so it’s important to know what those are in order to be able to cut to the chase. Throwing more money at the problem alone is not a very effective way to fix what’s broken in most cases.

I spend money to please my ears. I measure to figure out WTF is happening, not to tell me what "good" sounds like.

So, if you ask me, what are the best amplifiers ever made, clearly the CJ Premiere 12s. How do they measure? Kind of like garbage!! :D

OTOH, I rely heavily on frequency and distortion measurements to guide m in building new speakers as well as setting the up, repeatably and predictably in a room.

Even then however, lots of studies show that we like different overall amounts of bass. Who should win? My mic or your ears? Tell me this: who worked hard for the home, amp and speakers? You did, so your personal and emotional tastes should win.

Also, the measurements most audiophiles read about were decided upon 50 years ago, so I cannot believe that they these simple half dozen or so measurements we read for an amp or speaker are inclusive of all that can happen in an ear brain mechanism for everyone, or that the mastering engineer in 1982 was listening to my system at the time, so .... be true to your own decadence I think.

Audio is subjective. 

Hilde45 said it better than i could..

It is a dynamic process of learning and experimenting and training between physical measures set of parameters and the ears/brain impression... It is psychoacoustics ...😊

If i must trust my ears/brain by definition if i want to tune my systems/room, i must also train and educate my ears/brain using various measurements isolated parameters to refine and correct my first senses impressions.

 Then debates between subjectivists and objectivists crowds  is non sense...Psychoacoustics say it all ...

Absolutely - 100%, but I do use long term listening when making decisions.  Listening is how I experience music through my system, and how I determine what sounds best. Even if what I like doesn’t measure how someone else prefers, it’s still what I like to hear.

A complex question. One example of why the ear, unaided, is not best.

1. I set up my rig. I thought the bass sounded great.

2. A longtime poster here recommended measuring to see what the SPL graph was, then adjusting things in various ways. I did that.

3. When I listened again, I had no idea how much better it could be. It was beyond my comprehension. Without measuring, I'd have never gotten there.

Repeat the above scenario for measuring impulse graphs and really focusing the soundstage. 

The ear is easily pleased. Measurement offers a way to try things which please the ear even more.

It's a dialectic.