Do you trust your ears more than measurements?

This all assumes there is one objective or subjective standard for SQ that we would all agree on. That will never happen!

There is no one objective standard nor one subjective standard... This is common place fact...

But this common place fact dont justify those who called their gear choice my "taste" and conclude that the job is done...

There is a process of necessary and possible correlation for each of us between objective measures and our subjective physiological biases and hearing history and training..

Then this is true :

Measure once.
Listen twice.
Repeat.

It’s the opposite of construction.

Psychoacoustics standards concerning all acoustic factors are established by a set of CORRELATED experiments where all parameters are varied with different subjects...

No subjects will perceive "timbre" the same way... but they can  train themselves as acousticians and musicians do in their own way at their own rythm...I did it...

Timbre is a multidimensional factors experienced it is experience by  fis specific  ears/brain and only measured in a multidimensional way in varying controlled conditions......

All this does not means that we cannot for ourself in our own room modify the measures parameters at play and then created for ourself an experience of timbre which will be satisfying for us...

Using acoustics experiments and concepts and parameters  is better than purchasing an upgrading amplifier and called this "our taste" as if it is the end of the job and the end of the audio road...

i trusted my ears in my acoustics experiments when i changed parameters in an incremental way... Then if there is no one objective nor one subjective standard there is a a numbers of tools  and parameters we can use in an incremental process which we will all agree on, like all acousticians agree on the way to create a good room and agree on the necessary possible  tools and process to do it from some starting point ...

Being stubborn and justifying laziness by saying each one of us differ by taste is only a way to procrastine what must be acoustically done ...

Thanks for your kindness ...

I just want to precise that i am fooled by the usual biases as anyone is...But in a bit less powerful way than for most people...😊

Because i picked a set of new biases more powerful than the traditional one in audio which are : publicity, price tags, esthetics...

My new set of biases is the three working set of controls, mechanical and electrical and especially acoustics...

Then even if i can be fooled by my old biases the same as all people biases, the new one act as knowledge act on "black cat" superstition... A doctor can have this fear of black cat inherited from childhood, but after his training knowledge the superstition even if it subsist in his unconscious, has less power because of the new set of conscious biases : medical science...

Biases are inherited as the result of habit and conditioning, but some can be the results of training and created by our new practice...

Audio is grounded first and last in psychoacoustics not on price tags, esthetic, or gear design... But we must learn how to put this set of biases at the place of the other set of biases...

no, no, no! my apologies. I know English is not your first language, so that was a little cryptic (unclear) on my part. The joke was really an homage to your ability not to get fooled by bias. It’s a wonderful, powerful strength.

Oups!😊

I just get it...

I am not very good at catching humor in english,...

I apologize...

I wish you the best and i hope you will forgive my lack of humor and lack of understanding... 😁

@mahgister

that’s called a “joke”. equality of women should be noncontroversial, agreed?

Please read what i wrote or learn how to read...

I am not "more evolved" as you just suggested , i said we must learn how to hear with acoustics studies...Then the look of the gear and their price will no more be a so powerful magnet for our ignorance...

I dont understand your rant about women right...

@mahgister

you are clearly way more evolved than I am!

Confirmation and falsification of biases dont have the same impact on everyone...

A modern man dont think that black cat can give him black death...

Myself i dont buy costly high end gear, then i cannot suffer as much from this bias which induce us to perceive a better a system because it is better looking and more costly...

I used acoustics as biases set then i must train myself to perceive and act on real concepts, i am compulsively push to do it then i forgot esthetic of the gear and his price ...😊

Now my main audio bias and prejudice 😁 is : it is not necessary to pay 100,000 bucks to have high fi acoustic experience and it is not necessary to buy costlier upgrades to reach this magical minimal acoustic threshold...

Why ?

Because i learned by experiments that this threshold can be reached , with synergetical pieces of gear EMBEDDED rightfully in their mechanical, electrical and acoustical working dimensions...

Then i am now way more likely to suffer from these biases as esthetics, publicity, higher price upgrade because my learning biases for acoustics concepts parameters controls are too powerful and put the other biases at rest as "black cat" superstition, i became more conscious with basic knowledge ... These old biases concerning esthetic and prices amd marketing act as mice on me now not lions no more ...

Pick the right biases set , study and experiment BEFORE upgrading ; then like me perhaps you will even did not feel upgrade as so much useful anymore and especially not necessary at all cost ...

For those who need the point on the letter "i", my opinion will not change nor my biases set, even with a better system than my actual one, at higher cost and with an improved design.

Why ? 

Because  audio truth cannot change with esthetic prejudices  and higher price biases : in truth audio experience is directly and linearly related to our own acoustics mastery and our own electrical and mechanical basic knowledge first and last, nevermind the price or the quality design level of your gear  and to nothing else at the end ...

Great post with which i concur... Thanks...

A lot of good answers here. I've been working with measuring and listening for the last week, listening and noticing what I don't like, and then trying to understand how to fix it. Measurements help get me in the ballpark. I know what a really bad sounding measurement looks like. What's harder to tell is what a really good sound measurement looks like compared to a decent sounding measurement. There are a lot of different ways a system can sound good or bad. If I move my crossover for my tweeters from 600 Hz to 1000 Hz I can get more headroom and dynamics at the price of less natural tonal character because the dispersion isn't as smooth. I also get better imaging in some ways with the higher crossover because it gets beamy between 600 and 1000 Hz. The measurements show lower distortion at high volume and better in room clarity at the higher crossover. My ears tell me the tonal quality matters more.

The ears and listening rule OUR system room...Not audio....

Acoustics and psycho-acoustics rule audio...

Why did i say that ?

Because non trained ears in acoustic cannot understand their own limitation... Buying 40 amplifiers is not a ears training and it is even not knowledge, it is only a seller expertise.... And i am not a seller ... And electrical measures of gear design is only a limited set of measures and it is not enough... Physical and acoustical set of measures matter even more...

The "trained" ears rule audio and trained ears come from acoustic basic concepts and experiments...

If you cannot control timbre, imaging, soundstage and immersion in your room you cannot know what these interacting concepts means working together...

This is why people in audio forum do what most reviewers do: they sell gear upgrade as main solutions...

This is not knowledge sorry. It is marketing.

Then trusting more his ears than necessary  experiments is preposterous and counter productive...

And trusting electrical measures only over anything else and over his ears is blind ignorance...

It is very revelatory to observe that people conflate electrical measurement with physical acoustic measurements and dont even know about psycho-acoustics measurements...

Ignorance rule ...😁

As an example of the thing we must learn, at the price of loosing money and wasting our time; i just listened to an interesting video of Jay , a high end reviewer here and dealer, an honest dude, but he learned after spending money on hundreds of amplifiers and speakers ( high end products) he just learned very recently that room acoustic matter as much as any gear if not more at the end...😁

I am sure he will learn soon why all stereo system are flawed and how to cure it ... But it is another story...😊

Then spare your money and time , more than just room acoustic, read and study acoustics articles and psychoacoustics research basics, among other very basic mechanical and electrical factors, and suspend any upgrading expanse, try some experiments and think again instead of throwing money at the race of upgrading... Learn how to embed ANY system with all kind of measures and some acoustic experiments and perhaps as myself you will be surprized by the results...

My hobby is now listening music not a foolish upgrading race or a frustrated audio experience... A relatively low cost system ( we dont all have the same budget for sure) well chosen and well embed can give minimal acoustical satisfaction passed a minimal threshold... So much so, it does not appear as a stopgap but as the first level of audiophile experience... sound ectasy begin here ... No need to invest much money at all cost if you learn how to do it right to begin with...

The good news is it does not takes so much money...

The bad news is it ask for studies and times...

But being creative is more fun than giving your hard won money...

If you are without short budget and with a deep pocket, forget my post, and buy your dream high cost system plug it on the wall and called it audiophile TOP experience with the price tags to prove it for sure...😊

After all we are all in our own world and with our own needs...

Then to answer the OP , his question makes not much sense because we must trust our ears for sure but we must train our ears too than we must experiments with all kind of measures and varying parameters...

Opposing hearing and measuring is stupid.... We must correlate the two in a learning cycle... If we want to UNDERSTAND with our ears and if we want to hears with our brain working...

100% ears +100% mechanical ,electrical and acoustical measures = psychoacoustics intelligence and mature audio experience in a dynamic process going from the ears to the parameters in a cycle which is called : optimization of a system in a room for my specific ears ... ( ideally we must measures also our Inner ears and the HTRF factor)

Anything else is "branded name" marketing promotion for our favorite piece of gear or worst : price tag audiophile superstition called "my taste" or worst called "my experience" ... 😁...

Funny how ignorant people may be because they are lazy or lack the time and energy necessary to learn ...😁

Measurements are not all about mere  electrical factors of gear design by the way ...

They can be physical mechanical measures...

They can be acoustical measures with various parameters...

They can be psychoacoustics measures...

Then claiming all is subjective impression is pure ignorance...Sorry...

Then claiming that all is objective measures  most of the times with few electrical measures specs as in ASR forums about a piece of gear ISOLATED from all other mechanical and acoustical and psychoacoustical  measures if connected to a specific system in a specific  for specific owner specific mearured ears is RIDICULOUS....

All these measures imply a variation of the possible set of parameters which must be correlated to your own specific ears impressions...

Then why people are so dumb and divide themselves in two blind  opposite crowds ? ( it remind me of the Trumpist opposed to the Bidenist )

It is because of the conditioning by marketing power focussing to their selling pitch about   ONE pice of gear to sell  at a times to the gullible reading the price tag as truth ...

What we buy matter less than the way we will embed it by listening in a training process by varying the set of possible mechanical,electrical and acoustical parameters of the system in a specfic chosen room . Period. 😊

Acoustics science rule audio and this include room acoustic as well as psychoacoustics not price tag or electrical design few specs measures confirmed or not... A system synergy cannot be ruled and established  and confirmed  only by few electrical measures, it takes more measures and of different kind,  and it takes our ears to learn the measured and to rule them by chosing the right set FOR US  because i must decide of my room dimensions and speakers types etc ......

Hilde45 said it better than i could..

It is a dynamic process of learning and experimenting and training between physical measures set of parameters and the ears/brain impression... It is psychoacoustics ...😊

If i must trust my ears/brain by definition if i want to tune my systems/room, i must also train and educate my ears/brain using various measurements isolated parameters to refine and correct my first senses impressions.

 Then debates between subjectivists and objectivists crowds  is non sense...Psychoacoustics say it all ...