Do audiophiles creat the high prices we complain about.
I do think we do it to ourselves by greatly considering pricing when we buy. A manufacturer has to have certain price points or their gear wouldn't be considered worthy. I have had audiophiles tell me they want 10-25k speakers, not good ones the price comes 1st for many. Anything under those prices isn't good enough in their minds.
I believe we audiophiles create the market for high performing audio equipment, which in turn allows electronic engineers with a desire to create great sounding audio equipment the opportunity to do so.
Take for example companies like Audio Research, Wilson, and Pass. These guys risked every penny they had to create the very best audio experience possible. Take William Zane Johnson… his sacrifices to creating the best sound and a brand everyone could trust was epic. He nearly went bankrupt when a supplier sent him a batch of capacitors that blew up. Bill took every one of them back and repaired them at his own cost… it nearly killed his company. But integrity and complete dedication to the art was his motivation.
I have had the privilege of working for one of the innovators of the age when many of these companies were founded… for 20 years. This was Tom Brown… founder of Burr-Brown Corporation. One of the premier brands of DAC and ADC chips (and many other) used in high end audio for many decades. Tom like William were incredibly brilliant innovators that were humble, honest, insightful, and incredibly hard working (think over 80 hours a week).
Read about some of these companies and there founders. If you want to get rich… this is not it. These guys nearly destroyed their lives to found these companies. So, the community that appreciates high end sound gives opportunities for these companies to make assaults on the high end.
As every where some shisters try to jump on the tails of genius and dedication… but most of the guys producing megabit stuff are legitimate innovators.
I can't help but think some equipment manufacturers pursue high profit margin, low production business model for prestige and/or less hassle. High production, lower profit model may require higher input costs such as management, marketing and greater number of employees.
In some cases those higher costs may be justified by increased R&D and/or extremely talented designers. Better parts quality alone wouldn't justify some of these high prices. In the end, law of supply and demand is paramount.
But exactly who is complaining and why (bearing in mind that the market segment you are referring to is perhaps dominated by folks desirous of veblen goods).
@2psyopI shop budget h-fi. I cannot afford the top of the line stuff.
And then there is the line of thought that suggests that one may be too poor to buy cheap things.
This might start to make sense if you have ever bought something cheap and it breaks or fails in some manner on account of inadequate quality control, materials or whatever.
And then you have to buy another to replace it and you end up spending more money than if you had purchased the better quality and slightly more expensive item in the first place...Grrr!
Sometimes also known as false economy.
This has nothing to do with premium name brands or ,$25,000 speakers, so I digress.
If I wanted a sports car (which I really don't but this is for comparison purposes only) I would buy a new or used Corvette. There are Lambos and Ferraris and very nice and expensive sports cars but I think the Vette is a classic and also budget friendly at $64K. I would have lots of fun with that car...now I digress.
I’ve found that value does not always correlate to low price. Sometimes in life,we do get what we pay for. Sometimes not. Price is only one part of the equation.
Do audiophiles creat the high prices we complain about.
I do think we do it to ourselves by greatly considering pricing when we buy. A manufacturer has to have certain price points or their gear wouldn’t be considered worthy. I have had audiophiles tell me they want 10-25k speakers, not good ones the price comes 1st for many. Anything under those prices isn’t good enough in their minds.
Interesting and relevant question, always is. What can be merely observed is how price is oftentimes sought slavishly linked to sound quality, and it certainly ties neatly into a business model and how people generally identify themselves from a monetary standpoint; wealthy people buy expensive stuff, some simply because they can (uncritically) and others because it offers them a less restricted playground price-wise to explore their hobbies and interests.
Even in the latter case though, IMHO, price and what is normatively accepted has a tendency to become too rigid and dictating a marker, whereby the incentive to truly explore sound reproduction - irrespective of high AND low price, status, looks, segment, size and design principles - is sidestepped by market draw and the overall domination and appeal of the hi-fi industry as is.
Indeed: why buy something cheap when you can have and afford other stuff more expensive - why even bother? I don’t mean to imply I necessarily adhere to or endorse this kind of thinking and putting-into-action, but it goes to show there are mechanisms at work that effectively bypass an approach to sound reproduction that isn’t influenced by the allure and draw of what high prices (by virtue not least of being high) can offer.
Not every company is the baby of some innovator spending his 401K slaving away in his garage to build a better product. At some point the successful ones have large R&D and then manufacture abroad. When they release a new product, I am sure that they start off with a price point in mind, and they determine that point by looking at what is already on the market. If they can build a product for $X but have determined that the customer base is willing to pay $5X, they price it accordingly.
I think what the OP is getting at is that we don’t see comparably built equipment being sold at $3X, with the thought that lowering price should increase market share. I tend to agree. When Paradigm released their ‘Founder’ speaker line, I thought they sounded great, better than my current speakers which retailed for three times as much. However there were plenty of disparaging comments, on this site and elsewhere. Paradigm doesn’t have the same niche as , for example, McIntosh. When they release a product that is priced below Market Comparable, the expectation is that it must be unworthy. I have also had Sony SACD players that blew away, or at least held their own with higher priced boutique brands, also similarly disrespected
Perhaps I am not an audiophile- I don’t complain about prices.
my buying decision includes price as a factor but it’s oriented towards the value for the price. I love Audio Research and I am not willing to spend that much on components. I also like lobster - I don’t recall the last lobster I had…
I expect my experience isn’t singular- some folks value Audio Research higher than I do.
When they release a product that is priced below Market Comparable, the expectation is that it must be unworthy.
That's what happens when there is no universally acceptable way way to define what is "good". We become slaves to hype, biases, opinions, herd effect, magazine ads, you name it.
There are two standard ways of pricing and companies tend to follow one or the other.
Pricing by the market (basically the value the market will bear). So, carefully as @mahler123 mentioned, compare with performance in the market. The second is cost plus… I’m guessing that Schiit probably does this.
Of course, most companies consider both… something too expensive will not fly… and at the real high end… you don’t want to loose prestige by charging too little provided the performance justifies it.
No, audiophiles are not responsible for the cost no object products that have appeared within the last decade.
A few years back I had a conversation with an audio dealer who stated that audiophiles were his worst customers. Basically, they spend much time listening/comparing and very little time buying. His bread and butter customers were people with disposable income who wanted a really good sounding system. They were no more interested in the equipment than a typical Lexus buyer is interested in cam shaft profiles.
A segment of high end audio has morphed into a luxury good market. High prices are part of the appeal.
Fortunately, there are plenty of bargains in high end audio. Buy what you can afford comfortably. There is always going to be gear built for ‘cost no object’ standards and bragging rights!
I enjoy bourbon from time to time. I decided to research bourbons and also watch a few tube channels on it. I pretty much know what I like but thought of branching out a bit so I bought a good num of highly rated bourbons some costly. I found after testing I still preferred what I liked and the crazy costly ones didn't bring anything worthwhile to the consumption of bourbon most actually tasted far worse than Jim Beam. I know this is all subjective but it seemed to me those enjoying the costly bourbons may be doing so because they are told its cost and humans tend to think more expensive is better. And audio manufacturers and distilleries sure know this and price accordingly if the price is too low it's dismissed as mid-fi or poor quality even if it's not.
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