Disappointing On Mcintosh......help
Who really cares and does it matter whether you like McIntosh or not? Sound is subjective and the variables are many here. For whatever reason, you prefer Parasound. John Curl is one of the most legendary designers in the history of audio so whatever he designs is going to sound great. McIntosh has being making gear since 1949. How is it possible that their equipment is not clear and sounds like a thin sheet of paper and they are still in business for 70 years? Does that mean everyone who purchases Mac gear is deaf or hearing impaired? Stereophile just gave the Mc462 a class A recommendation. How is that possible if Mac gear is not clear and sounds like a thin sheet of paper? So Since you went to 2 locations and came to the same conclusion, You should forget Mac and Sonus Faber. You seem to like Parasound so then find a dealer that supports that brand and then compare that to 2 other brands of comparable price and performance, then narrow it down to the winner. Why 3, you will get confused with too many variables. Speakers: there are too many choices and too many variables which makes them the most subjective. Sonus Faber is overall a softer sounding speaker because they have been a proponent of silk soft dome tweeters from the beginning. I know this because I own a pair of original Guarneri Homages from 1999(pair #1498) which I ran with a full Mark Levinson 300 series complete system. The designer wanted a tweeter that had very low resonance so that the sound of the violin is reproduced in its most pure state. This is why the first pair made is in the Hall of Violins in Cremona Italy to commemorate the birthday of the great violin maker Guarneri. Does this mean that it is the perfect speaker? No, but its the speaker that I chose because I like it at the time: And 20 years later, I still like them. Are they the best speakers for heavy duty rock music and drums no because tweeters are designed to be polite and polished. If you want more life in the highs, you can audition, Focal, B&W 800 series, Klipsh Heritage series. WOM is not really a great place to audition because its a company experience center, not a store. Its goal is to display Mac, ARC, and Sonus Faber in living spaces so that the rich can see and experience this equipment in a true living space not in an audiophile sound room. Many of the 1% will purchase Sonus Faber for the looks alone because even if you don't like their sound, no other speaker is a beautiful work of art that happens to make music: Good luck in your search and don't forget to enjoy the music. |
zavato McIntosh serviced my MC2250 amp, and my C28 Preamp, but they do NOT support my mx110z in any way. Granted it’s from the 60’s, but still, If I was willing to wait ..... No parts, no service. I broke the face glass last year, no help. I found replacement glass online, but, decided to have a local shop make me a piece with two holes (half the price), I masked off the clear area and painted it black myself (as original). And renewed the dust seals around it’s inside edges. They are making me a new factory box for it, $55. delivered, so if needing to ship it in the future ...... |
It's possible our taste in what we like to hear changes with time too. Less detail and more musical midrange with full body sound is what I prefer too. While I'm not a Parasound or Macintosh owner both offer great options. Good source and proper speaker matching can make a huge difference in preference one way or the other. It does not appear the OPs original post was really an apples-to-apples comparison anyhow jumping from one store to another with completely different setups over an extended period of time. I've heard some crappy Mc systems and some really good ones all dependent on the room, component, and speakers chosen by the person giving the demo. Same setup can sound completely different when you get it home for demo too. Lots of variables. |
Upgraded my C45 to C49 pre and Harbeth SHL5 to McIntosh XR100 speakers played with MC352 amp. Really thought I was going to buy the Harbeth 40.2's but thought I would try the Mc's first to save money. I bought them with 2 months to try them out and have owned them longer than that. To back track a little I have owned equipment from other companies (Krell, Cary, Magnapan) but have consolidated my system over the years because I believe you get great value and synergy from buying products from the same company. This takes the risk of disappointment to a low level. Linn, Bryston, MBL, Burmester and others also make complete systems. The end of this post is to say that I am very happy with the C49, MC352 and XR100 sound quality. Acoustic sounds are entirely natural and pleasing (same characteristics the Harbeth's are known for) and have a greater range and scale than my Harbeths (which I still own). They shine reproducing Jazz and Classical and can Rock like crazy! I only write about what I have had in my house. Happy listening to all. |
Just listened again to a Mac 462 connected to a pair of Sonus fabers. In a post above someone mentioned to be aware of cables, and I second that. We tried 3 different speaker cables and the worst pair caused the combination to sound muted, the Nordost Frey 2 brought everything up a notch or 10. Detailed, musical, nothing dry or clinical. Perfect for our ears. We liked the combo so much we bought them. |
70% of the sound quality in any system comes first from the acoustical controls field of the room, and from the controls of the electrical grid of the house, and some part from the mechanical embeddings controls...Only 30 % comes from the amplifier and source... This rule is valid for most mid-fi and high fi system of relatively very good quality that are all relatively equal in this prepared and controlled audio context, despite their evident differences... The illusion that electronic component magically create hi-fi experience out of the box for the customers is an engineered marketing illusion...Almost all relatively good audio systems will be top hifi if they are embedded rightly in the mechanical, and electrical and acoustical grids....Or will sound shitty otherwise....Even one million dollars system.... An experience by chance, in a non prepared and non controlled environment of a piece of electronic gear by the listener means nothing even for the listener himself, whether he believes the opposite or not.... |
Moving from my former good quality media room to my great/expensive/custom engineered designed listening room was an eye opener. The same very good/not SOTA audio system became a fabulous sounding system, making 30 year old, very good speakers sound like high end costly speakers. With my tweaks added, I can enjoy most recordings including early acoustic ones with only the most wretched recordings remaining unlistenable. No tone controls or DSP, just a great room (SOTA) acoustically and good room electrically (not SOTA) providing the basis for my equipment and tweaks to perform maximally. |
I am Mac lover (Mc2301, Mc452, C1100, D1100) and I have B&W signature diamond and signature 30 speaker, they are beautiful warm. clear sound. I want to say that all personal preference is different and demo systems (include cables, rooms, or speaker positions...) make huge different too. nowadays it is very hard for listen to the high end demo system sound in local dealer or retail store. sadly watching this hobby will get older and shrinking...:-( |
Off topic a bit, speaking of shrinking hobby, one trend I've paid attention to is the kids with portable devices with headphones resurrected headphones a bit and then they wanted better separate/amps for their headphones, then they started dabbling in tube/headphone amps, which then seemed to help drive a resurgence in small tube amps for headphones. Now some of them are buying small tube amps for home use. Now we are seeing tube amps pop back up in the USA and of course China is cranking out tube amps like crazy. If you check around there are several new USA based tube amp builders popping up too, who woulda knew... found several new Co.s may not making a killing on sales but surviving. Kinda cool to see this happening. |
was the McIntosh a tube system? If so, your listening to two different topologies, tube and solid state. no wonder you heard two different sounds. With tubes, you change the sound character by swapping out tubes. At the end of the day, get what sounds best to you. I went from transistor to tubes years ago after listening to various types of amps. |
This thread is interesting. Are people full of crap or something? Mac amps are as neutrel as can be, they don’t color the sound at all. You hear just the music. It’s literally mcintoshes tagline and philosophy. I think anyone who thinks mcintosh sounds warm, veiled, is having sighted listening bias their opinion completely. maybe the blue meters are offensive to them... |
@d2girls...………………….. There are two kinds of people in this world, those that love McIntosh, and those that can’t afford it. I used that back in the 70’s when we sold McIntosh. I would say it if the customer was on the fence and got them every time. Seriously, McIntosh is great equipment. The people that don't like it may have not gotten a very good audition with mismatched components. Audio stores used lots of tricks back in the day, like putting a particular set of speakers out of phase on purpose so we could sell other brands with more profit margin. Don't worry what the others think. you can't go wrong with that brand. I love all my Mac gear and anyone who tells me my system isn't resolving enough only has to come over and listen. You will have to pick your jaw off the floor though before you leave. |
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I concur that those 50's/60's McIntosh lower power amps were phenomenal. The MC30s drove my Legacy Focuses which have low impedances. Stock, they are rather limited in bass and highs but the best mids ever. The 1990s SS McIntosh amps were unable to drive my former ML Monolith IIIs at all (neither could Levinsons). Terrible mismatches. However, those powerful SS McIntosh amps of today can easily and beautifully power Maggies of all sizes. |
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The Mcintosh sound eluded me. Tried the vintage ones in my early years, including the legendary MA230, MC240, MC30, MC75, MC225 and MC275. Tried the recent models as well (can’t even remember that $6000 tube integrated’s model other than I lost $2k to get rid of it). Just not my cup of tea. However, the fact that I don’t like Spanish food does not mean Spanish food is inferior in any way. I just prefer something else. So don’t feel bad if you don’t like it, and don’t let people make you feel inferior just because you are unable to find ways to appreciate it. |
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To each their own taste. I gave McIntosh a try in a second system, C70/MC462. Well built, attractive, and good value compared to craziness of high end pricing. I sold the McIntosh units after a few months because I found I didn't really like the sound reproduction which, for lack of reviewer's vocabulary, was more hi-fi than high end. |
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I hate to tell you, but auditions like that are a waste of time. You don’t know what you’re hearing. If you don’t develop a reference point for yourself, you’re just wondering around making meaningless comments. Buy what you want and give it a try in your own system, with your own ears, and go from there. Don’t be biased - forget the brand. Good luck |
As a Mcintosh owner as well I say find another dealer who really knows the product line well and can steer you in the right direction. There are models that sound clearer than other models but I think most Mcintosh owners are after that less fatiguing warm tube sound. My dealer here in Quebec Cananda did some A/B comparisons to demonstrate how different one model from another can sound. All in the same price range. So Mcintosh is trying to offer something for everyone. You just have to find it. Good Luck! 😎 |
Value is in the eye of the beholder...I'll share my experience with upgrading my system. My system started with Sonus Faber Venere 3.0s, NAD C375BEE with a vintage dual turntable and Parasound Tape Deck. My system was designed from the start to be 2 channel stereo as I decided to have a dedicate home theatre and figured my living room could use music for entertainment. I started with selecting speakers and looked at PSB Towers, (T2 or T3) and B&W 805D before selecting the Sonus Fabers. My home theatre was NAD and I considered an Integra unit but since my NAD T785 performed well I stayed with NAD. I added a Node 2i and started thinking of upgrading. My primary rationale was volume - I like it loud and I listen to rock, jazz, blues as well as R&B and pop when entertaining. My audio dealer where I purchased the Node 2i had a special on Naim Atom - when I expressed my desire for my volume the dealer didn't think this upgrade would fit the bill. So we discussed some other options and I decided to wait. Then a McIntosh C2600 deal came up - it had a DAC, phono stage and I thought it may be a good way to get into separates. Oh my did the sound change. The sound became 'bigger' meaning you could hear all the nuances during the dynamic sections of music. I noticed the amp was struggling at 45% when the Node 2i was the source. The tape deck and phone sounded significantly better. I recently swapped the NAD C375BEE when I found a deal on a McIntosh MC 302 and this improved the sound quality and the volume. I enjoyed playing music very load with the amp going strong to the 300w for music like April Wine's 20th Century Schizoid Man, Daft Punk's Get Lucky, Bestie Boys Brass Monkey. Going back to the original post - that's your experience. Its not mine. I like the sound I have - I can play Black Sabbath Paranoid on an LP and I can hear the distinction in the bass from the drum and the guitars clearly during War Pigs. I can stream a MQA on Tidal with Steel Dan or the Talking Heads and experience the dynamic range of the music. The two things I've done to 'optimize my components' are I have Blue Jean Speaker Cables Bi-wired, Blue Jean Optical from the Node to the pre-amp, Transparent RCA from the tape deck to the amp and I'm using Better Cables Silver Serpent XLRs from the preamp to the Amp. The difference between Transparent RCA from pre-amp to amp was significant - specifically in overall volume and when there is 'silence' in music such as during Johnny Cash's Hurt. Hopefully this is interesting, useful or at least amusing. |
@mrklas, I have a similar story and ended up with a McIntosh C2500 and MC302. I am extremely satisfied and I love the generous amount of inputs and outputs, adjusting Moving Coil impedance on the fly by remote, bass and treble controls...I could go on and on. The amp sounds so effortless, plenty of power for my speakers. |
Interesting. I've always found Mcintosh to be bright and thin but recently heard the C2700 with a MC462 on JBL 4349's and it was amazing. The newest generation of Mac gear sounds phenomenal... when paired properly. I heard that same MC462 run with a Jeff Rowland Capri S2 preamp and it sounded like TRASH. Pairing is VERY important and I do subscribe to the idea that our tastes may change a bit over time. Or we just forget. If you can, take your time and audition gear. Sometime's it's a pain in the @ss, especially during a pandemic, but allot of dealers will allow home demos - especially with preamps and the such. And every audio comment about sound should be followed with "it sounded bright and thin... TO ME"... sound is subjective. |
I decided to refresh this discussion, but not because I relish rabble-rousing. This past weekend, I replaced my well-regarded stereo power amplifier with a pair of McIntosh MC 611 monaural power amplifiers. While I get a kick out of those large blue windows with their needles bouncing to and fro, that was hardly the motivation behind my purchase any more than was their retention of value or their famous brand name. Rather, I bought them because I wanted a better sounding system, this desire constrained by what would be to me, for that improvement, a fair price. Beauty, in the sonic sense, is in the ears of the beholder. I wanted to sit down and listen to music that was melodious, enveloping, and simply a delight to hear -- for hours on end. These MC 611s fulfill that desire to a degree I had never before experienced in my media room. I suppose that I qualify for being called an "audiophile". I have steadily improved my audio system over the past 35 years; I doubt I shall never stop, although at this point I have reached a level of satisfaction that contentment is now the appropriate description of where I am. This topic contains both praises and deprecations of McIntosh with lots of generalizations, particularly by those who are bad-mouthing McIntosh. I find this amusing, as the only relevant comments are those where a specific component (McIntosh's or a competitor's) is introduced to a person's personal audio system, and that person articulates how well it worked. I know that a lot of people on Audiogon appear to relish "clarity". I have a simple test for establishing whether a system (the amp and speakers being the most critical components) provides clarity. Play "Wicked Games" by Chris Isaak. A female chorus in the background softly sings "This world is only going to break your heart". If the listener can make out every work without undue effort, then that system is truly clear. (My former amps failed that test; the MC 611s passed it.) I may be wrong about this, but I believe there are two ways that clarity can be delivered. The first is my having such outstanding ability to amplify the signal that nothing is lost in its boosting; the other is to "goose-up" the lower treble. This is what airlines do enormously when they make passenger announcements, and it is really unpleasant to hear. My suspicion is that a lot of amplifiers also do that, but to a lesser degree, of course. I have been rambling, so let me bring this posting to a close. I am not going to make a wholesale endorsement of McIntosh. However, I do feel very comfortable saying that, in a first-class audio system, their MC 611 power amplifiers can be a terrific addition. They certainly are to mine. |
I love the post. So many say negative things about McIntosh, but never state the model or related equipment. I also have 611’s and am very happy. I hear clarity like I have never heard before. However, I am going to listen to the track you mentioned. I am sure some McIntosh equipment is better than other McIntosh equipment, but I am keeping my 611’s. |
I am fortunate to have a very good system. For the Wicked Games test, I used a Lumin T2 streamer/DAC, Kimber Kable Silver Streak to a Theta Casablanca V preamp/processor, Wireworld Equinox 8 interconnects to the two McIntosh MC 611 power amps, Wireworld Silver Eclipse 8 speakers to Revel Ultima Studios. The power management was, for the components, Shunyata Venom V10 XC power cable to a Shunyata Denali Power Distributor and then Venom 14 to the two components; for the amplifiers, Shunyata Delta XC to a Shunyata Denali 2000/T power distributor and then Venom 10 XCs to the two amplifiers. As good as the 611s are, the signal they got to amplify was very fine, too. If any of the prior "chain" were of lesser quality, the clarity I enjoyed as well as the musicality might have been impaired. |
I had McIntosh in what I call the "Dark Days" , better known as when Clarion owned them. I had a C15 and 7100 that I bought used. They were in exceptional condition and sounded pretty good. I sold them for 50% more than I paid for them , after enjoying them for 5 years. What can you buy that does that? A Ferrari is the only thing I know of that appreciates like that....... In their darkest hour McIntosh 's entry level stuff was better than most companies top tier and I believe that is still true today. They have improved over the years since Clarion sold them. A lot I was trying to see a C22 in person. Their distributorship is terrible, not a lot of dealers near me. BEST BUY ?????? Are they kidding? That really cheapens the brand in my opinion.. The ones that were within driving distance had none on display. I ended up buying a Zesto Leto, an amazing preamp .....incredible sounding |
